> 2533274803286028;1:
> I would like to begin this discussion by first congratulating the entire 343 team on what I believe to be the best FPS ever. You folks have done an amazing job and the credit belongs to you. In addition, it has become evident that the 343 team is in fact listening to the Halo community as evidenced by upcoming December update soon to be released. It is because of this that I have been inspired to share my opinion.
> My request is simple. Please consider removing the Spartan Charge (SC) from the game. As you all know, one of the keys to success in any multiplayer game is the ability to achieve balances that allow players to utilize different strategies and tactics each with their own varying strengths and weakness. The genius of Halo 5 is that this has been basically achieved even with a bevy of weapon types, maps, vehicles and spartan abilities. The exception to this is the SC which unfortunately favors the attacking opponent using this ability.
> First, lets examine the SC from the attacker’s prospective. An attack to an opponent from behind yields an instant kill while a frontal attack renders their opponent half-life (i.e. shields eliminated + half their life taken). In addition, their reticule doesn’t budge vertically after SC contact. If they had their sites set a head level before SC contact, then it will be set there after as well. This makes it so they have a virtual instant kill immediately after a frontal SC attack regardless of the weapon type they are holding. Combine this with radar that only shows 18m (which I feel is otherwise fine) and the attacker has a lot of advantages in their column.
> Now lets look at this from the defender’s perspective. First, I’m going to come out and say that it’s the defender’s responsibility to protect their rear (no pun intended!). If they’re getting hit from behind, that’s often going to be positioning errors (ex. hanging out in one zone too long). So let’s focus on defending frontal SC attacks. There are a number of things the defender can do to counter the SC attack, but in the end they come up terribly short when compared against the advantages gained by the attacker. First, they can side-thrust out of way. Sounds good, right? Yes, when successful and the attacker misses they get stuck in an animation sequence that renders them at a big disadvantage, but this happens far too infrequently. Personally, I have found this defense to unreliable at best. I can’t tell you how many times my opponent has connected with a SC while I’m in the middle of a side-thrust animation. Second, the defender can shoot the charging opponent knocking them out of their sprint. Now, I’m not exactly sure how many bullets it takes to achieve this, but it’s certainly a lot more than one or two. I have had multiple instances where I’ve put in like 3 pistol shots and they’re still charging ahead. One potential fix to all of this would be to make so that a single bullet strike of any type will knock an opponent out of their sprint making a SC impossible. Third, the defender can preform a simultaneous melee which knocks out the opponents shield. This is another one that sounds better than it is in actuality because executing this is tricky at best. The timing has to be very exacting for the defender while the attacker has no timing issues at all. I was only able to do this as a defender like 50% of the time while experimenting in a custom game with my friend. Add to this the disadvantage of a limited radar, having your reticule knocked down about an inch after contact and having the no time to choose the most ideal weapon (AR/SMG) for a post SC fire fight and your left with an imbalanced outcome.
> What’s the result of all of this? You have players running around scoring kills while having to shoot few to no bullets with relative impunity. This has the effect of impairing an otherwise perfect game where the skilled player who lands their shots best comes out on top.
> Please do something to fix this 343!
> -Bill Gresh
> aka Greshman
> 2533274855457985;59:
> SC isn’t overpowered with the use of radar. I’ve had plenty of occurrences where I’d see the red dot behind me just jump and thruster back for the ninja beat down.
My guess is that for everyone of those successful back-thrust ninja moves you’ve been smoked 10 other times. Keep the SC in place, lets just allow bullet strikes to deactivate a sprint. That’s all I’m saying.
Tweak it? Sure. Remove it? Absolutely not. As someone who is a very aggressive and in-your-face player, I love the SC. I would definitely agree that there needs to be some tweaking done to it, especially when it comes to melee counters, but overall I see no reason why to take it out.
Another set of guys who want to reduce our Spartans to slowly walking boulders on the battlefield.
I’m not the biggest fan of 343i innovations, Halo 4 was brutally butchered, but the new abilities finally make me feel like a hyper lethal Spartan who you don’t want to screw with. Most of the time Spartan charge isn’t going to make a difference anyway. Either you thrust and kill the noob as he sails by you, or he gets you fair and square. In previous games he would just have come up and gotten you while you were distracted or something, now it’s just a bit faster.
> 2535411049802905;61:
> > 2533274803286028;1:
> > I would like to begin this discussion by first congratulating the entire 343 team on what I believe to be the best FPS ever. You folks have done an amazing job and the credit belongs to you. In addition, it has become evident that the 343 team is in fact listening to the Halo community as evidenced by upcoming December update soon to be released. It is because of this that I have been inspired to share my opinion.
> > My request is simple. Please consider removing the Spartan Charge (SC) from the game. As you all know, one of the keys to success in any multiplayer game is the ability to achieve balances that allow players to utilize different strategies and tactics each with their own varying strengths and weakness. The genius of Halo 5 is that this has been basically achieved even with a bevy of weapon types, maps, vehicles and spartan abilities. The exception to this is the SC which unfortunately favors the attacking opponent using this ability.
> > First, lets examine the SC from the attacker’s prospective. An attack to an opponent from behind yields an instant kill while a frontal attack renders their opponent half-life (i.e. shields eliminated + half their life taken). In addition, their reticule doesn’t budge vertically after SC contact. If they had their sites set a head level before SC contact, then it will be set there after as well. This makes it so they have a virtual instant kill immediately after a frontal SC attack regardless of the weapon type they are holding. Combine this with radar that only shows 18m (which I feel is otherwise fine) and the attacker has a lot of advantages in their column.
> > Now lets look at this from the defender’s perspective. First, I’m going to come out and say that it’s the defender’s responsibility to protect their rear (no pun intended!). If they’re getting hit from behind, that’s often going to be positioning errors (ex. hanging out in one zone too long). So let’s focus on defending frontal SC attacks. There are a number of things the defender can do to counter the SC attack, but in the end they come up terribly short when compared against the advantages gained by the attacker. First, they can side-thrust out of way. Sounds good, right? Yes, when successful and the attacker misses they get stuck in an animation sequence that renders them at a big disadvantage, but this happens far too infrequently. Personally, I have found this defense to unreliable at best. I can’t tell you how many times my opponent has connected with a SC while I’m in the middle of a side-thrust animation. Second, the defender can shoot the charging opponent knocking them out of their sprint. Now, I’m not exactly sure how many bullets it takes to achieve this, but it’s certainly a lot more than one or two. I have had multiple instances where I’ve put in like 3 pistol shots and they’re still charging ahead. One potential fix to all of this would be to make so that a single bullet strike of any type will knock an opponent out of their sprint making a SC impossible. Third, the defender can preform a simultaneous melee which knocks out the opponents shield. This is another one that sounds better than it is in actuality because executing this is tricky at best. The timing has to be very exacting for the defender while the attacker has no timing issues at all. I was only able to do this as a defender like 50% of the time while experimenting in a custom game with my friend. Add to this the disadvantage of a limited radar, having your reticule knocked down about an inch after contact and having the no time to choose the most ideal weapon (AR/SMG) for a post SC fire fight and your left with an imbalanced outcome.
> > What’s the result of all of this? You have players running around scoring kills while having to shoot few to no bullets with relative impunity. This has the effect of impairing an otherwise perfect game where the skilled player who lands their shots best comes out on top.
> > Please do something to fix this 343!
> > -Bill Gresh
> > aka Greshman
>
>
> I like the SC
So do I. Let’s just let bullet strikes deactivate a sprint. That’s all I’m talking about.
> 2533274852088914;64:
> Tweak it? Sure. Remove it? Absolutely not. As someone who is a very aggressive and in-your-face player, I love the SC. I would definitely agree that there needs to be some tweaking done to it, especially when it comes to melee counters, but overall I see no reason why to take it out.
I like the SC. I’m not saying pull it. If you read my OP and previous remarks you’d know that I’m suggesting allowing bullet strikes to deactivate an opponents sprint. That’s all!
Yes. It either needs to be removed or tweaked. Its currently a pretty cheap tactic to instantly get an easy advantage over someone that was positioning themselves to be ready for you coming a around a corner. It encourages sprinting around like a madman CoD style.
I cant stand it. I dont know if it should be removed but it does need some work. Firstly its way to rewarding for the person doing the spartan charge. If your the one doing the SC then you should have some drawbacks. The SC’er can easily just run for like 1 secon, Spartan charge, regain aim fast and kill your enemy before he can aim.
> 2533274884387290;65:
> Another set of guys who want to reduce our Spartans to slowly walking boulders on the battlefield.
>
> I’m not the biggest fan of 343i innovations, Halo 4 was brutally butchered, but the new abilities finally make me feel like a hyper lethal Spartan who you don’t want to screw with. Most of the time Spartan charge isn’t going to make a difference anyway. Either you thrust and kill the noob as he sails by you, or he gets you fair and square. In previous games he would just have come up and gotten you while you were distracted or something, now it’s just a bit faster.
Have you even read anything that was written before your post? Nobody, myself included is suggesting that any of the mobility mechanics of the game change. I love the way the game is configured. I’m simply saying that a bullet strike should allow an opponent to be knocked out of their sprint. That’s it! Nothing more!
> 2533274803286028;67:
> > 2533274852088914;64:
> > Tweak it? Sure. Remove it? Absolutely not. As someone who is a very aggressive and in-your-face player, I love the SC. I would definitely agree that there needs to be some tweaking done to it, especially when it comes to melee counters, but overall I see no reason why to take it out.
>
>
> I like the SC. I’m not saying pull it. If you read my OP and previous remarks you’d know that I’m suggesting allowing bullet strikes to deactivate an opponents sprint. That’s all!
Uh OP? I hate to point this out but your title is often all people look at, and it says plainly: “Is it time for 343 to remove Spartan Charge?”
> 2533274884025288;68:
> Yes. It either needs to be removed or tweaked. Its currently a pretty cheap tactic to instantly get an easy advantage over someone that was positioning themselves to be ready for you coming a around a corner. It encourages sprinting around like a madman CoD style.
Yes precisely. Allowing a bullet strike to knock an opponent out of sprint would balance the game out in my opinion.
The charge can be annoying but it definitely adds an element to the melee system of Halo that previous games weren’t necessarily lacking, just didn’t really try to reinvent the system. I appreciate 343 adding new layers to make the game feel like a refreshed, reworked game. Just another layer of the game to master to take your multiplayer experience to the next level.
> 2533274884387290;71:
> > 2533274803286028;67:
> > > 2533274852088914;64:
> > > Tweak it? Sure. Remove it? Absolutely not. As someone who is a very aggressive and in-your-face player, I love the SC. I would definitely agree that there needs to be some tweaking done to it, especially when it comes to melee counters, but overall I see no reason why to take it out.
> >
> >
> > I like the SC. I’m not saying pull it. If you read my OP and previous remarks you’d know that I’m suggesting allowing bullet strikes to deactivate an opponents sprint. That’s all!
>
>
> Uh OP? I hate to point this out but your title is often all people look at, and is says plainly: “Is it time for 343 to remove Spartan Charge?”
That’s right, it’s posed as a question not some declarative mandate. The discussion has evolved since the title of this thread was created. I encourage you to read it. I believe the adjustments suggested will bring about a more balanced game.
> 2533274803286028;72:
> > 2533274884025288;68:
> > Yes. It either needs to be removed or tweaked. Its currently a pretty cheap tactic to instantly get an easy advantage over someone that was positioning themselves to be ready for you coming a around a corner. It encourages sprinting around like a madman CoD style.
>
>
> Yes precisely. Allowing a bullet strike to knock an opponent out of sprint would balance the game out in my opinion.
Can’t agree, sorry. Would break escapes completely. Let’s model a scenario, you get surprised out of cover by a BR opponent, sprint to reach next cover. BR clips you, you stop sprinting and get headshotted from 8 different directions you can before reengage sprint because of the necessary delay.
> 2535448182293336;73:
> The charge can be annoying but it definitely adds an element to the melee system of Halo that previous games weren’t necessarily lacking, just didn’t really try to reinvent the system. I appreciate 343 adding new layers to make the game feel like a refreshed, reworked game. Just another layer of the game to master to take your multiplayer experience to the next level.
I agree. 343 has done an amazing job adding layers to Halo while maintaining an integrity to the game at it’s core. This one specific ability however results in a game inbalance what would be rectified by allowing a bullet strike to deactivate an opponents sprint. As it stands now, no amount of bullets knock a player out of sprint. I think we should keep the SC, lets just moderate this one aspect, so that it evens out the gameplay better. That’s all i’m suggesting.
Spartan Charge is incredibly stupid on small maps like plaza. It’s effectively a panic button that virtually cripples anyone holding a room on small maps, and in FFA is an absurdly powerful ability that is extremely forgiving.