IS IT TIME FOR 343 TO REMOVE THE SPARTAN CHARGE?

I would like to begin this discussion by first congratulating the entire 343 team on what I believe to be the best FPS ever. You folks have done an amazing job and the credit belongs to you. In addition, it has become evident that the 343 team is in fact listening to the Halo community as evidenced by upcoming December update soon to be released. It is because of this that I have been inspired to share my opinion.
My request is simple. Please consider removing the Spartan Charge (SC) from the game. As you all know, one of the keys to success in any multiplayer game is the ability to achieve balances that allow players to utilize different strategies and tactics each with their own varying strengths and weakness. The genius of Halo 5 is that this has been basically achieved even with a bevy of weapon types, maps, vehicles and spartan abilities. The exception to this is the SC which unfortunately favors the attacking opponent using this ability.
First, lets examine the SC from the attacker’s prospective. An attack to an opponent from behind yields an instant kill while a frontal attack renders their opponent half-life (i.e. shields eliminated + half their life taken). In addition, their reticule doesn’t budge vertically after SC contact. If they had their sites set a head level before SC contact, then it will be set there after as well. This makes it so they have a virtual instant kill immediately after a frontal SC attack regardless of the weapon type they are holding. Combine this with radar that only shows 18m (which I feel is otherwise fine) and the attacker has a lot of advantages in their column.
Now lets look at this from the defender’s perspective. First, I’m going to come out and say that it’s the defender’s responsibility to protect their rear (no pun intended!). If they’re getting hit from behind, that’s often going to be positioning errors (ex. hanging out in one zone too long). So let’s focus on defending frontal SC attacks. There are a number of things the defender can do to counter the SC attack, but in the end they come up terribly short when compared against the advantages gained by the attacker. First, they can side-thrust out of way. Sounds good, right? Yes, when successful and the attacker misses they get stuck in an animation sequence that renders them at a big disadvantage, but this happens far too infrequently. Personally, I have found this defense to unreliable at best. I can’t tell you how many times my opponent has connected with a SC while I’m in the middle of a side-thrust animation. Second, the defender can shoot the charging opponent knocking them out of their sprint. Now, I’m not exactly sure how many bullets it takes to achieve this, but it’s certainly a lot more than one or two. I have had multiple instances where I’ve put in like 3 pistol shots and they’re still charging ahead. One potential fix to all of this would be to make so that a single bullet strike of any type will knock an opponent out of their sprint making a SC impossible. Third, the defender can preform a simultaneous melee which knocks out the opponents shield. This is another one that sounds better than it is in actuality because executing this is tricky at best. The timing has to be very exacting for the defender while the attacker has no timing issues at all. I was only able to do this as a defender like 50% of the time while experimenting in a custom game with my friend. Add to this the disadvantage of a limited radar, having your reticule knocked down about an inch after contact and having the no time to choose the most ideal weapon (AR/SMG) for a post SC fire fight and your left with an imbalanced outcome.
What’s the result of all of this? You have players running around scoring kills while having to shoot few to no bullets with relative impunity. This has the effect of impairing an otherwise perfect game where the skilled player who lands their shots best comes out on top.
Please do something to fix this 343!
-Bill Gresh
aka Greshman

It’s actually easy to counter as it is if you’re in front of them. Melee them as they make contact and then quickly get a headshot in with a magnum or BR. Regardless, it’s far too late for it to be removed now.

> 2533274803286028;1:
> I would like to begin this discussion by first congratulating the entire 343 team on what I believe to be the best FPS ever. You folks have done an amazing job and the credit belongs to you. In addition, it has become evident that the 343 team is in fact listening to the Halo community as evidenced by upcoming December update soon to be released. It is because of this that I have been inspired to share my opinion.
> My request is simple. Please consider removing the Spartan Charge (SC) from the game. As you all know, one of the keys to success in any multiplayer game is the ability to achieve balances that allow players to utilize different strategies and tactics each with their own varying strengths and weakness. The genius of Halo 5 is that this has been basically achieved even with a bevy of weapon types, maps, vehicles and spartan abilities. The exception to this is the SC which unfortunately favors the attacking opponent using this ability.
> First, lets examine the SC from the attacker’s prospective. An attack to an opponent from behind yields an instant kill while a frontal attack renders their opponent half-life (i.e. shields eliminated + half their life taken). In addition, their reticule doesn’t budge vertically after SC contact. If they had their sites set a head level before SC contact, then it will be set there after as well. This makes it so they have a virtual instant kill immediately after a frontal SC attack regardless of the weapon type they are holding. Combine this with radar that only shows 18m (which I feel is otherwise fine) and the attacker has a lot of advantages in their column.
> Now lets look at this from the defender’s perspective. First, I’m going to come out and say that it’s the defender’s responsibility to protect their rear (no pun intended!). If they’re getting hit from behind, that’s often going to be positioning errors (ex. hanging out in one zone too long). So let’s focus on defending frontal SC attacks. There are a number of things the defender can do to counter the SC attack, but in the end they come up terribly short when compared against the advantages gained by the attacker. First, they can side-thrust out of way. Sounds good, right? Yes, when successful and the attacker misses they get stuck in an animation sequence that renders them at a big disadvantage, but this happens far too infrequently. Personally, I have found this defense to unreliable at best. I can’t tell you how many times my opponent has connected with a SC while I’m in the middle of a side-thrust animation. Second, the defender can shoot the charging opponent knocking them out of their sprint. Now, I’m not exactly sure how many bullets it takes to achieve this, but it’s certainly a lot more than one or two. I have had multiple instances where I’ve put in like 3 pistol shots and they’re still charging ahead. One potential fix to all of this would be to make so that a single bullet strike of any type will knock an opponent out of their sprint making a SC impossible. Third, the defender can preform a simultaneous melee which knocks out the opponents shield. This is another one that sounds better than it is in actuality because executing this is tricky at best. The timing has to be very exacting for the defender while the attacker has no timing issues at all. I was only able to do this as a defender like 50% of the time while experimenting in a custom game with my friend. Add to this the disadvantage of a limited radar, having your reticule knocked down about an inch after contact and having the no time to choose the most ideal weapon (AR/SMG) for a post SC fire fight and your left with an imbalanced outcome.
> What’s the result of all of this? You have players running around scoring kills while having to shoot few to no bullets with relative impunity. This has the effect of impairing an otherwise perfect game where the skilled player who lands their shots best comes out on top.
> Please do something to fix this 343!
> -Bill Gresh
> aka Greshman

They could free up space for a halo character editor if they decided they wanted to create something new. This ability is a little too much imo.

//edit

all they need to do is reduce the “sliding” range. it is worst then the sword lunge in H3. fix that i would be indifferent about it

> 2533274802359621;2:
> It’s actually easy to counter as it is if you’re in front of them. Melee them as they make contact and then quickly get a headshot in with a magnum or BR. Regardless, it’s far too late for it to be removed now.

Did you even read what I wrote?

> 2533274827519891;4:
> all they need to do is reduce the “sliding” range. it is worst then the sword lunge in H3. fix that i would be indifferent about it

Yes, that’s another potential adjustment which could even things out a bit. Combine that with the ability to knock opponents out of sprint with a single shot and I’d be happy leaving the SC in place. Otherwise, I’d prefer to see it yanked.

> 2535421339318024;3:
> > 2533274803286028;1:
> > I would like to begin this discussion by first congratulating the entire 343 team on what I believe to be the best FPS ever. You folks have done an amazing job and the credit belongs to you. In addition, it has become evident that the 343 team is in fact listening to the Halo community as evidenced by upcoming December update soon to be released. It is because of this that I have been inspired to share my opinion.
> > My request is simple. Please consider removing the Spartan Charge (SC) from the game. As you all know, one of the keys to success in any multiplayer game is the ability to achieve balances that allow players to utilize different strategies and tactics each with their own varying strengths and weakness. The genius of Halo 5 is that this has been basically achieved even with a bevy of weapon types, maps, vehicles and spartan abilities. The exception to this is the SC which unfortunately favors the attacking opponent using this ability.
> > First, lets examine the SC from the attacker’s prospective. An attack to an opponent from behind yields an instant kill while a frontal attack renders their opponent half-life (i.e. shields eliminated + half their life taken). In addition, their reticule doesn’t budge vertically after SC contact. If they had their sites set a head level before SC contact, then it will be set there after as well. This makes it so they have a virtual instant kill immediately after a frontal SC attack regardless of the weapon type they are holding. Combine this with radar that only shows 18m (which I feel is otherwise fine) and the attacker has a lot of advantages in their column.
> > Now lets look at this from the defender’s perspective. First, I’m going to come out and say that it’s the defender’s responsibility to protect their rear (no pun intended!). If they’re getting hit from behind, that’s often going to be positioning errors (ex. hanging out in one zone too long). So let’s focus on defending frontal SC attacks. There are a number of things the defender can do to counter the SC attack, but in the end they come up terribly short when compared against the advantages gained by the attacker. First, they can side-thrust out of way. Sounds good, right? Yes, when successful and the attacker misses they get stuck in an animation sequence that renders them at a big disadvantage, but this happens far too infrequently. Personally, I have found this defense to unreliable at best. I can’t tell you how many times my opponent has connected with a SC while I’m in the middle of a side-thrust animation. Second, the defender can shoot the charging opponent knocking them out of their sprint. Now, I’m not exactly sure how many bullets it takes to achieve this, but it’s certainly a lot more than one or two. I have had multiple instances where I’ve put in like 3 pistol shots and they’re still charging ahead. One potential fix to all of this would be to make so that a single bullet strike of any type will knock an opponent out of their sprint making a SC impossible. Third, the defender can preform a simultaneous melee which knocks out the opponents shield. This is another one that sounds better than it is in actuality because executing this is tricky at best. The timing has to be very exacting for the defender while the attacker has no timing issues at all. I was only able to do this as a defender like 50% of the time while experimenting in a custom game with my friend. Add to this the disadvantage of a limited radar, having your reticule knocked down about an inch after contact and having the no time to choose the most ideal weapon (AR/SMG) for a post SC fire fight and your left with an imbalanced outcome.
> > What’s the result of all of this? You have players running around scoring kills while having to shoot few to no bullets with relative impunity. This has the effect of impairing an otherwise perfect game where the skilled player who lands their shots best comes out on top.
> > Please do something to fix this 343!
> > -Bill Gresh
> > aka Greshman
>
>
> They could use the extra space for halo. I want a character editor like reach, but like more detailed. This ability is a little to much imo.

I’m sorry, but I don’t understand what your referring to here. How does any of that affect the game imbalance brought about by the SC?

I don’t think shooting someone can knock them out of sprint unless they haven’t reached full speed yet.

Full speed is also required to spartan charge.

AFAIK, knocking someone out of sprint isn’t a matter of how many bullets it takes, it’s only a matter of whether they’ve reached full speed yet. Just wanted to clarify that.

> 2533274866682248;8:
> I don’t think shooting someone can knock them out of sprint unless they aren’t at full speed yet. Also, you can’t spartan charge until full speed.
>
> AFAIK, knocking someone out of sprint isn’t a matter of how many bullets it takes, it’s only a matter of whether they’ve reached full speed yet. Just wanted to clarify that.

After testing this out in a custom game with a friend I found the following:

  1. Hitting an opponent that is charging up to a full sprint will prevent them from reaching full sprint. In other words, it deactivates the sprint build up preventing them from being able to SC.

2, Once an opponent has reached a full stride sprint, no amount of bullets will knock them off the sprint.

Obviously, I’m completely behind #1. However, a single bullet should deactivate the sprint of an opponent.

> 2533274803286028;7:
> > 2535421339318024;3:
> > > 2533274803286028;1:
> > > I would like to begin this discussion by first congratulating the entire 343 team on what I believe to be the best FPS ever. You folks have done an amazing job and the credit belongs to you. In addition, it has become evident that the 343 team is in fact listening to the Halo community as evidenced by upcoming December update soon to be released. It is because of this that I have been inspired to share my opinion.
> > > My request is simple. Please consider removing the Spartan Charge (SC) from the game. As you all know, one of the keys to success in any multiplayer game is the ability to achieve balances that allow players to utilize different strategies and tactics each with their own varying strengths and weakness. The genius of Halo 5 is that this has been basically achieved even with a bevy of weapon types, maps, vehicles and spartan abilities. The exception to this is the SC which unfortunately favors the attacking opponent using this ability.
> > > First, lets examine the SC from the attacker’s prospective. An attack to an opponent from behind yields an instant kill while a frontal attack renders their opponent half-life (i.e. shields eliminated + half their life taken). In addition, their reticule doesn’t budge vertically after SC contact. If they had their sites set a head level before SC contact, then it will be set there after as well. This makes it so they have a virtual instant kill immediately after a frontal SC attack regardless of the weapon type they are holding. Combine this with radar that only shows 18m (which I feel is otherwise fine) and the attacker has a lot of advantages in their column.
> > > Now lets look at this from the defender’s perspective. First, I’m going to come out and say that it’s the defender’s responsibility to protect their rear (no pun intended!). If they’re getting hit from behind, that’s often going to be positioning errors (ex. hanging out in one zone too long). So let’s focus on defending frontal SC attacks. There are a number of things the defender can do to counter the SC attack, but in the end they come up terribly short when compared against the advantages gained by the attacker. First, they can side-thrust out of way. Sounds good, right? Yes, when successful and the attacker misses they get stuck in an animation sequence that renders them at a big disadvantage, but this happens far too infrequently. Personally, I have found this defense to unreliable at best. I can’t tell you how many times my opponent has connected with a SC while I’m in the middle of a side-thrust animation. Second, the defender can shoot the charging opponent knocking them out of their sprint. Now, I’m not exactly sure how many bullets it takes to achieve this, but it’s certainly a lot more than one or two. I have had multiple instances where I’ve put in like 3 pistol shots and they’re still charging ahead. One potential fix to all of this would be to make so that a single bullet strike of any type will knock an opponent out of their sprint making a SC impossible. Third, the defender can preform a simultaneous melee which knocks out the opponents shield. This is another one that sounds better than it is in actuality because executing this is tricky at best. The timing has to be very exacting for the defender while the attacker has no timing issues at all. I was only able to do this as a defender like 50% of the time while experimenting in a custom game with my friend. Add to this the disadvantage of a limited radar, having your reticule knocked down about an inch after contact and having the no time to choose the most ideal weapon (AR/SMG) for a post SC fire fight and your left with an imbalanced outcome.
> > > What’s the result of all of this? You have players running around scoring kills while having to shoot few to no bullets with relative impunity. This has the effect of impairing an otherwise perfect game where the skilled player who lands their shots best comes out on top.
> > > Please do something to fix this 343!
> > > -Bill Gresh
> > > aka Greshman
> >
> >
> > They could use the extra space for halo. I want a character editor like reach, but like more detailed. This ability is a little to much imo.
>
>
> I’m sorry, but I don’t understand what your referring to here. How does any of that affect the game imbalance brought about by the SC?
> //Revised

They need to fix a lot with halo. Sc seems overly powered. I see potentiality elsewhere for it.

It clearly needs tweaking. My greatest issue is that if you melee someone who is charging you, they don’t seem to take any damage, or at least they don’t most of the time. Also, look at the stupid stun time it causes and how forgiving the hit registration and range is.

Spartan Charge Nonsense - Look at the absurd range and stun it causes

More Nonsense - Once again absurd range. I tried to melee but keep forgetting that meleeing while jumping in this game is useless. There is such a large delay between the button press and the actual melee.

Spartan Charge Hit Detection - I jumped out of the way and thrustered, and it still registered.

Attempted Sword Block - Melee the no shields sword guy, and he takes no damage… Broken melee mechanics when compared to past games. This should have been a trade.

Why is it such a problem that people can shoulder charge? Plenty of times I have died after being the charger hitting someone from the front.
From behind its a 1 hit kill. Just like a melee. Its not hard to dodge it or to be aware of whats around you.

SC is fine.

No, its easy to counter.

> 2533274829354492;13:
> No, its easy to counter.

It needs tweaking, presumably in the form of range reduction or increasing the time needed in sprint to activate it. As it stands right now, as long as your opponent is maybe inside a 50 fov on your screen, you will get the hit registered.

I haven’t had a problem, yes I get killed sometimes but other times I kill them even when they hit me with it. It usually become a 1 shot battle, other times they completely miss. I see nothing wrong with sc

If you keep your distance and you play conservatively, spartan charge is not bothersome what so ever

> 2533274829354492;13:
> No, its easy to counter.

Ya? How?

> 2533274826203061;11:
> It clearly needs tweaking. My greatest issue is that if you melee someone who is charging you, they don’t seem to take any damage, or at least they don’t most of the time. Also, look at the stupid stun time it causes and how forgiving the hit registration and range is.
>
> Spartan Charge Nonsense - Look at the absurd range and stun it causes
>
> More Nonsense - Once again absurd range. I tried to melee but keep forgetting that meleeing while jumping in this game is useless. There is such a large delay between the button press and the actual melee.
>
> Spartan Charge Hit Detection - I jumped out of the way and thrustered, and it still registered.
>
> Attempted Sword Block - Melee the no shields sword guy, and he takes no damage… Broken melee mechanics when compared to past games. This should have been a trade.

Nothing was wrong in any of those. Your legs got hit in the last one, it’s a Fing sword you expect to trade? I gues you want TP range to be useless.

I don’t think it should be removed, but it should be nerfed if your it from the front or sides. Or if you get shot while sprinting it stops you from being able to spartan charge.

> 2533274950960631;16:
> If you keep your distance and you play conservatively, spartan charge is not bothersome what so ever

I still have a lot to learn about positioning, etc. But this hasn’t been the case for me. Particularly in FFA. Maybe the reduction down to 6 players will improve this.