Is HLG unethical?

I have been reported over 60 times in the last six months for cheating by using exploitable lapses in map design primarily in BTB. People have avoided playing with a party just because I was in it and have won a game against them. People have claimed to be from 343 and threatened to ban me.

I still have yet to be banned for doing this, but in my opinion I think it is because I am not doing anything wrong; I am simply performing a series of movements to get to a tactical place in the map. I haven’t hacked or used third-party software.

What do you think?

If there are places on the map where they don’t want you to go then it’s up to them to make sure that you can’t get there. Bad forging is not your fault. Exploiting bad forging is probably not going to win you any friends, but you already seem to know that. At any rate, if you got banned for this when people in their thousands exploit the ranking system for their own evil ends then I would just laugh and throw up my hands at this game… like I do almost every day anyway. Especially when fixing these exploits takes all of about five minutes and nobody anywhere can quite seem to find the time to do it…

I would say, “Yes.” You’re exploiting the map and system in ways that are obviously not intended to be possible and ruining the experience of the others in the match.

Ethical is a tough question.

Some may argue that it is unethical to use those locations since they are not widely known. The same argument can be used for any location where you have to use a “trick” jump (thrust, stabilize, clamber) to get there. To be frank, those locations aren’t any different than camping a corner with a shotgun. Once a player knows where you are, they should be able to kill you (assuming you aren’t hiding inside a rock or something similar).

These are the same people who complain about noob combos, etc. Just an excuse for losing.

You’re defeating the point of the game by refusing to play. While hiding really isn’t cheating because there’s no rule explicitly disallowing it, since it effectively halts the game, makes the rest of the match uninteresting, and goes against the general idea of fair play, it is undoubtedly terrible sportsmanship.

If all you care about is winning by any means necessary, as long as it’s legitimate, then nothing’s going to stop you. But if you care at all about being a decent human being, you’re not going to do it without the explicit permission of everyone else in the game.

It would make sense to be reported for that, or being reported for unsporting behavior. If you know there are exploits on the map, and you decide to use them knowing that they give you an unfair advantage over other players, such as when you were able to hide behind geometry in Warzone and still shoot out of it without taking damage, that’s on you if you get reported.

> 2533274800168045;6:
> It would make sense to be reported for that, or being reported for unsporting behavior. If you know there are exploits on the map, and you decide to use them knowing that they give you an unfair advantage over other players, such as when you were able to hide behind geometry in Warzone and still shoot out of it without taking damage, that’s on you if you get reported.

But why is it not fair if the enemy team can also take control of the position? Taking control of both banshees on Viking could be considered an unfair advantage as well but it isn’t because technically the team who lost control could have maintained it.

> 2535431933064458;7:
> > 2533274800168045;6:
> > It would make sense to be reported for that, or being reported for unsporting behavior. If you know there are exploits on the map, and you decide to use them knowing that they give you an unfair advantage over other players, such as when you were able to hide behind geometry in Warzone and still shoot out of it without taking damage, that’s on you if you get reported.
>
> But why is it not fair if the enemy team can also take control of the position? Taking control of both banshees on Viking could be considered an unfair advantage as well but it isn’t because technically the team who lost control could have maintained it.

Because you’re the one who created the map and is fully aware of the exploits, I wouldn’t just assume that other people would immediately learn about them just after joining a single session on that map. I’ve seen this kind of stuff back in my Counter-Strike 1.6 days and it was a one-sided slaughter for myself and many others. I was ripping my hair out.

> 2535429593088083;8:
> > 2535431933064458;7:
> > > 2533274800168045;6:
> > > It would make sense to be reported for that, or being reported for unsporting behavior. If you know there are exploits on the map, and you decide to use them knowing that they give you an unfair advantage over other players, such as when you were able to hide behind geometry in Warzone and still shoot out of it without taking damage, that’s on you if you get reported.
> >
> > But why is it not fair if the enemy team can also take control of the position? Taking control of both banshees on Viking could be considered an unfair advantage as well but it isn’t because technically the team who lost control could have maintained it.
>
> Because you’re the one who created the map and is fully aware of the exploits, I wouldn’t just assume that other people would immediately learn about them just after joining a single session on that map. I’ve seen this kind of stuff back in my Counter-Strike 1.6 days and it was a one-sided slaughter for myself and many others. I was ripping my hair out.

I haven’t created any of the MM maps. The inner workings are available to everyone via forge. Nobody learns that it is important to control blue room on Riptide in their first game either.

> 2535431933064458;7:
> > 2533274800168045;6:
> > It would make sense to be reported for that, or being reported for unsporting behavior. If you know there are exploits on the map, and you decide to use them knowing that they give you an unfair advantage over other players, such as when you were able to hide behind geometry in Warzone and still shoot out of it without taking damage, that’s on you if you get reported.
>
> But why is it not fair if the enemy team can also take control of the position? Taking control of both banshees on Viking could be considered an unfair advantage as well but it isn’t because technically the team who lost control could have maintained it.

Because grabbing two banshees and maintaining map control isn’t an exploit. Controlling a room in Arena isn’t an exploit. Phasing through geometry that you can’t be killed out of IS an exploit. Exploits are possible in games, but they aren’t created by people with the intent they’ll be used in normal game play standards. They are found by people playing, and only used as a crutch to tip the scales in an unfair way.

What is HLG?

> 2533274800168045;10:
> > 2535431933064458;7:
> > > 2533274800168045;6:
> > > It would make sense to be reported for that, or being reported for unsporting behavior. If you know there are exploits on the map, and you decide to use them knowing that they give you an unfair advantage over other players, such as when you were able to hide behind geometry in Warzone and still shoot out of it without taking damage, that’s on you if you get reported.
> >
> > But why is it not fair if the enemy team can also take control of the position? Taking control of both banshees on Viking could be considered an unfair advantage as well but it isn’t because technically the team who lost control could have maintained it.
>
> Because grabbing two banshees and maintaining map control isn’t an exploit. Controlling a room in Arena isn’t an exploit. Phasing through geometry that you can’t be killed out of IS an exploit. Exploits are possible in games, but they aren’t created by people with the intent they’ll be used in normal game play standards. They are found by people playing, and only used as a crutch to tip the scales in an unfair way.

None of the hides I perform involve phasing through geometry. Most of my hides you can actually kill me and I’m not completely hidden; you might need to stray from your normal FOV but you can find me. I’ll link one where I am killable and not impossible to see.

All speculation at this point unless you actually talk to someone at Xbox Live about your reports. Kind of a gray area, but I wouldn’t really consider it cheating. I think it falls more into the unsportsmanlike conduct category which you can still be reported for. As long as you’re still doing this stuff, you’re gonna keep getting reports because there will be people who consider it cheating or bad behavior.

Even if you’re just hiding and not doing anything, someone could view that as not helping your team unless of course you really suck and don’t get any kills, but they wouldn’t know that.

Going into a social playlist and exploiting the map to run out the clock like you did in that video is not what I would consider good sportsmanship. Is it cheating? If there isn’t a rule against it or a rule addressing exploits, it isn’t cheating. Is it “unethical”? I think so.

Along the line of Lukepowa, I would suggest that this is not cheating, but depending on the player could be considered unsportsmanlike. However, all maps have strong and weak points, both intentional and via imperfect design. If you are OK with it, I would say go ahead, but if it is bothering you, then maybe cease and desist. I must admit, if I found such an exploit, I would probably use it for a game or two. Far bigger issues on some BTB maps are the asymmetry in if one team gets two of X (wasp, banshee, etc) or holds the campground and the game is essentially over before it has really began.

Exploting the map is unfair and reporting you was the right desicion.

> 2535431933064458;1:
> I have been reported over 60 times in the last six months for cheating by using exploitable lapses in map design primarily in BTB. People have avoided playing with a party just because I was in it and have won a game against them. People have claimed to be from 343 and threatened to ban me.
>
> I still have yet to be banned for doing this, but in my opinion I think it is because I am not doing anything wrong; I am simply performing a series of movements to get to a tactical place in the map. I haven’t hacked or used third-party software.
>
> What do you think?

That depends on just how strict your moral code is and to what extent you honor the general ideas of those morals.

In my “Halo 5 Code of Honor”, it specifically states in Chapter 3 that “exploiting a flaw that is not intended in the flow of the map for your own gain is a -Yoink- move”.

So so if we take your dilemma under this paradigm, you deserved all 60. I also see a lot of people talking about how it isn’t necessarily cheating, but I’d disagree. You’re going into a spot that wasn’t designed into and for the map, a.k.a a glitch spot. Exploiting glitches to gain an unfair advantage is the definition of cheating.

> 2533274944752684;17:
> I also see a lot of people talking about how it isn’t necessarily cheating, but I’d disagree. You’re going into a spot that wasn’t designed into and for the map, a.k.a a glitch spot. Exploiting glitches to gain an unfair advantage is the definition of cheating.

I wouldn’t consider a lot of things a glitch. There are many places that you can get to on a map which is exposed to enemy fire and also accessible through normal methods of travel. A glitch spot to me would be something like going into a wall or using invisible barriers to your advantage in order to get to a spot. The issue in the majority of these cases is 343 not properly sealing off their maps which allows people to get to them by just using Spartan abilities on the map terrain.

> 2727626560040591;18:
> > 2533274944752684;17:
> > I also see a lot of people talking about how it isn’t necessarily cheating, but I’d disagree. You’re going into a spot that wasn’t designed into and for the map, a.k.a a glitch spot. Exploiting glitches to gain an unfair advantage is the definition of cheating.
>
> I wouldn’t consider a lot of things a glitch. There are many places that you can get to on a map which is exposed to enemy fire and also accessible through normal methods of travel. A glitch spot to me would be something like going into a wall or using invisible barriers to your advantage in order to get to a spot. The issue in the majority of these cases is 343 not properly sealing off their maps which allows people to get to them by just using Spartan abilities on the map terrain.

OP specifically stated that they were exploiting an “exploitable lapse”, a flaw. A glitch, if you will. Exploiting that (according to OP themselves) illegitimate area is cheating. Whether or not semantics will concede to it being a glitch is up for contest, but it is giving OP an unfair advantage, cheating.

> 2535431933064458;1:
> I have been reported over 60 times in the last six months for cheating by using exploitable lapses in map design primarily in BTB. People have avoided playing with a party just because I was in it and have won a game against them. People have claimed to be from 343 and threatened to ban me.
>
> I still have yet to be banned for doing this, but in my opinion I think it is because I am not doing anything wrong; I am simply performing a series of movements to get to a tactical place in the map. I haven’t hacked or used third-party software.
>
> What do you think?

I know exactly which ones you’re talking about lol. The ones that get you out if map on slayer gametypes arent that unfair anymore as you run out of ammo and have to re-enter to get more.

Your advantage really isn’t unfair…until you have an objective type gamemode. I hate Strongholds with a passion, and with that, I’ve done the Entombed Blue Base breach to literally keep the enemy team from ever stealing it back. Older maps I could get out of the maps with the flag and/or bomb while winning so there was really no hope in the enemy team ever winning for nearly a whole match. They could play all they want and all for nothing because the loss was guaranteed.

Is it crappy? Yes. But I only do them to garner attention in hopes they get patched. 343 paid attention to 4v4 maps but BTB doesn’t get the same attention. The same exploits in these rounds of maps I’ve been able to do for easily almost a year. You definitely won’t get friends but a lot of these exploits require precise circumstances and ability chains to get to.

Like I said, map exploits in slayer aren’t that advantageous. It really only destroys the game in objective modes because of it being a potentially huge time washer for the opposing team.