Is anyone else unhappy with the depiction of Forerunners?

Community Halo Universe
#1

Reading Cryptum and Primordium has created an incredible desire for me to be able to see Forerunners is more media - in more motion shorts, in the upcoming games, in anything. The problem is, the ones we’ve seen so far (Halo Origins and the Anniversary Terminals) look… kinda stupid.

This looks okay, I guess. Maybe a high, ceremonial outfit. But the helmet is dumb.

This is an accurate fan drawing of the (presumed) warrior servants we see in Halo: Origins. Again, stupid helmet.

Here’s a strategy meeting (from what we know, they’re probably Builders)

And here’s an image of a Lifeworker from the Anniversary terminals. Given that they were relased a few months ago, and given that they were created by 343, we can assume this image is fully canonical.

I guess the problem is that these images conflict drastically with the images Greg Bear’s writing calls to mind. He writes of Forerunner armor being incredibly varied, spun of seemingly organic technology that moulds and shapes to the wearer. Day-to-day Forerunner armor, according to Greg Bear’s novels, features a helmet with a barely visible facial shield that can reveal a Forerunner’s full features in times of conversation and relaxation.

Bear writes of the armor being multicolored, varied, cermonial or practical, and presumably the combat skin is something different again.

My point is, from what we’ve seen so far, the Forerunners will be depicted as a biker gang from a 1970s post-apocalyptic sci-fi movie. Nothing that’s yet been drawn has even come close to depicting what Greg Bear describes, with the notable exception of this concept art for a Forerunner combat skin.

Don’t get me wrong, the Forerunner ships, architecture and technology looks great, but the race themselves looks completely different. We’re told that Forerunners are vastly different in physical appearance - the Didact’s shoulders are described as being as wide as a Manipular’s spread arms. Forerunners are described as gray skinned, pink skinned, blue skinned, furry shouldered, slight, enormous, simply dressed, intricately dressed, etc.

Warrior servants are supposed to be enormous and powerful compared to other rates, not skinny, lycra clad and wearing conch shells on their heads. The higher-up Builders and Lifeworkers look worrying like this guy.

I just really fear that the technologies and images that Greg Bear has created are going to be simplified and dumbed down so much that they don’t resemble the source material at all. That’s my impression of the Forerunners from Origins and the Anniversary Terminals. To me, it’s just going to be a huge disappointment if they spend all of this time creating such a rich mental image of what Forerunners actually look like if they’re going to be based off the poor designs from Origins.

And that’s not to say I want Forerunners to look how they do in my head - honestly, I don’t have a real image in my head because what Greg Bear describes is outside what I can imagine. But I want them to really impress me, and I want to be amazed at how advanced their culture is - I don’t want to be stifling a laugh.

TL;DR: The Forerunners in Origins and the Anniversary Terminals look nothing like Greg Bear describes and I’m hoping they do something cool for future depictions.

What do you guys think?

#2

Actually, I agree with you. But then again, it sounds like Greg Bear works closely with 343 so maybe we might see something closer related in the future somehow.

As a sidenote, it would be interesting to see Chakas and Riser’s armor.

#3

Riser’s armor was described as having doubled-back knee joints (Elite-style) to bring him to the height of Chakas and Bornstellar. That’d be cool to see.

#4

> Riser’s armor was described as having doubled-back knee joints (Elite-style) to bring him to the height of Chakas and Bornstellar. That’d be cool to see.

Oh, I must have missed that.

Honestly, seeing as the only canonical depiction of Forerunner armor so far is in the Anniversary terminals, I have great hope that we’ll eventually see varied types of Forerunner and Forerunner armor.

Also, I wonder how close that Promethean image is going to be to the actual Prometheans. If they’re as wide as a Manipular’s spread arms, are they tall, or powerfully built?

#5

Warrior servants are almost always described in the Forerunner trilogy as tremendously broad, as if their shoulder span is the main thing that sets them apart from other rates.

It sounds silly, but this always makes me imagine something I learnt in high school science - for a human being to be able to sustain powered flight, they would need a breast bone five feet across. I imagine warrior servants to be larger and stronger than the average rate, but this breadth that Greg Bear talks about always sticks out.

#6

It has been mentioned that armors are more ornately designed for various rates and such. Personally I don’t care too much about their armor but I try to imagine them without it and that’s where I fall short…I really hope that we can see them without if they do appear in game.

#7

All those armors seem to completely obscure their face, where in the books it seems their face, and heck, even some of their bodily details are perfectly visible and stuff.

Hmmm

#8

> All those armors seem to completely obscure their face, where in the books it seems their face, and heck, even some of their bodily details are perfectly visible and stuff.

Yeah, and observing it from a real world perspective for a minute, the reason the Forerunners were probably depicted as masked gangly aliens in the Origins film is that it was probably too difficult for one studio to create the entire look of an integral alien race, especially because they probably knew it would have implications on what they could and couldn’t do down the track.

It’s easier to depict everyone as Battlestar Gallactica extras than actually design an interesting, varied race like Greg Bear has done. Hopefully 343 don’t feel bound by Legends in their depiction of Forerunners in Halo 4.

#9

From a perspective standpoint, it would probably be best if their appearance was NOT revealed. After all, do we want to see Master Chief’s face, or The Rookie’s face, or Noble 6’s face? No. It would ruin the enigma of the species. (While one can say the mystery of the Forerunners has already been hugely violated, it would be nice to still retain a shred of obscurity for the species)

#10

> Actually, I agree with you. But then again, it sounds like Greg Bear works closely with 343 so maybe we might see something closer related in the future somehow.
>
> As a sidenote, it would be interesting to see Chakas and Riser’s armor.

#11

Then again. Perhaps 343i wants to leave the forerunners overall appearance a mystery? To give them some measure of unknown left in their character before Halo 4?

#12

Its not like 343 can read YOUR mind and make them look how you would like them to. Be happy that they dont actually look stupid like you think they do. I cant wait to see how badass they are just so you realise not to jump to narrow minded conclusions like this. If they looked like power puff girs, then I would be right behind you ranting on and on

#13

> Its not like 343 can read YOUR mind and make them look how you would like them to. Be happy that they dont actually look stupid like you think they do. I cant wait to see how badass they are just so you realise not to jump to narrow minded conclusions like this.

> And that’s not to say I want Forerunners to look how they do in my head - honestly, I don’t have a real image in my head because what Greg Bear describes is outside what I can imagine. But I want them to really impress me, and I want to be amazed at how advanced their culture is - I don’t want to be stifling a laugh.

#14

> > Its not like 343 can read YOUR mind and make them look how you would like them to. Be happy that they dont actually look stupid like you think they do. I cant wait to see how badass they are just so you realise not to jump to narrow minded conclusions like this.
>
>
>
> > And that’s not to say I want Forerunners to look how they do in my head - honestly, I don’t have a real image in my head because what Greg Bear describes is outside what I can imagine. But I want them to really impress me, and I want to be amazed at how advanced their culture is - I don’t want to be stifling a laugh.

I stopped reading this junk after you said they look like a motor cycle gang.

#15

You might disagree with me, but there’s no reason to be a -Yoink!- about it. You’re admitting you didn’t actually read the original post and you’re calling what I have to say junk - instead of being rude and aggressive, why not just skip the thread and move on?

Your “point” about “Forerunners can’t look the way they look in your head” is not what I meant at all, and if you had have taken the time to read what I wrote before you had a crack at me you would have seen that. Instead of having a go at my post without reading it, how about you contribute to the thread in a constructive way, or you don’t post in it at all?

As much as we all love the stereotypical snarky teenage flaming Halo fan, this forum is usually above that, so please don’t bring it down to a lower level. If you want to comment on something, read it. If you disagree with someone, disagree with their points and don’t revert to ad hominem cracks (disagreeing with their points does mean actually reading their posts). And if you don’t want to do any of that, then maybe you’re in the wrong place.

#16

> You might disagree with me, but there’s no reason to be a -Yoink!- about it. You’re admitting you didn’t actually read the original post and you’re calling what I have to say junk - instead of being rude and aggressive, why not just skip the thread and move on?
>
> Your “point” about “Forerunners can’t look the way they look in your head” is not what I meant at all, and if you had have taken the time to read what I wrote before you had a crack at me you would have seen that. Instead of having a go at my post without reading it, how about you contribute to the thread in a constructive way, or you don’t post in it at all?
>
> As much as we all love the stereotypical snarky teenage flaming Halo fan, this forum is usually above that, so please don’t bring it down to a lower level. If you want to comment on something, read it. If you disagree with someone, disagree with their points and don’t revert to ad hominem cracks (disagreeing with their points does mean actually reading their posts). And if you don’t want to do any of that, then maybe you’re in the wrong place.

Dont you think that when you say things like “stupid” to describe what you think of 343i’s depiction of Forerunners, that it is “rude” and something a “snarky teenage flaming Halo fan” would say? I dont like it when people arent pleased with the way things are in Halo, just because of your own personal preference. Its not like everything looks the same to you as it does to the rest of the community. I think the exoskeleton that the forerunners wear in the CEA terminal is awesome. I dont really care if someone thinks they look like a biker gang, it just means that person should look at the positives of the next halo trilogy and not get mad over “stupid” things.

#17

lol

I like you.

#18

> Dont you think that when you say things like “stupid” to describe what you think of 343i’s depiction of Forerunners, that it is “rude” and something a “snarky teenage flaming Halo fan” would say?

Just to be clear - my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I said the Forerunners in Origins looked “kinda stupid”. As I said in my post, I loved the architecture and ship design in Origins, but I felt that Studio 4°C really missed the mark in their depictions of Forerunners, and expressed my hope that future portrayals will be closer to what other canonical materials have portrayed.

> I dont like it when people arent pleased with the way things are in Halo, just because of your own personal preference.

I… um… I don’t really know what to say. You don’t like it when people aren’t pleased with the way things are in Halo? Being a fan of a series doesn’t mean you passively accept every single design decision that the creators make, and disagreeing with certain aspects of a work doesn’t mean you hate everything else.

I didn’t have a problem with the Origins Forerunners until I read Greg Bear’s work. He took the Forerunners from being the prototypical super advanced extinct alien species and made a really interesting society, and I felt that Studio 4°C’s Foreunner designs (and 343i’s susbsequent use of them in the Anniversary Terminals) weren’t coherant with what is now the core Forerunner canon.

> Its not like everything looks the same to you as it does to the rest of the community. I think the exoskeleton that the forerunners wear in the CEA terminal is awesome.

That’d be why I titled the thread “Is anyone else unhappy with the depiction of Forerunners?” I was genuinely curious to find out other people’s opinions, and at no stage did I say “my way is the only way”. You like the designs I dislike. That’s great. That’s the kind of feedback I was after.

Couldn’t you have just said that initially instead of having a go at me?

> I dont really care if someone thinks they look like a biker gang, it just means that person should look at the positives of the next halo trilogy and not get mad over “stupid” things.

Again, let me be clear - I appreciate the work Studio 4°C and 343 did in both Halo Origins and the Anniversary Terminals, I just don’t really like their Forerunner designs and think they look silly in comparison to Greg Bear’s descriptions of the race. I’m not angry, I just wanted to start a discussion.

I used sarcasm in my initial post because I thought it would be obvious. Seeing as you missed it, I don’t literally think the Forerunners look like a biker gang. That was a joke. The point that joke was making is that the design I’m displeased with recalls low science fiction from the 60s and 70s and I’m hoping it can be improved upon in the next Halo games/films/artwork. That’s all. I’m not attempting to undermine the Halo series, I’m not saying whoever created those images is a bad artist, and I’m not saying “343 is the worst studio ever for not hitting the mark on a detail I find important”.

I was just expressing my opinion, and asking for the opinions of others. That’s what a discussion is.