Is academy enough?

Games Halo Infinite
1

So I was on Twitter and saw many hyped for infinite. That is great and I’m sure we’ll love to see it. However, I also saw talk of it’s popularity compared to other shooters.

My question is, is academy (including training mode) enough to educate and prepare non halo players for PvP?

I have some friends who play warzone and when they hop on a Halo game with me, they get thrashed. No one likes that and it keeps them from wanting to play. The issue is, not everyone has time to learn and get a grasp of a new game. Often times games are stress relievers and just played for a good time after work/school. So many take this time as it is and do not want to grind learning another game.

2

From what I played, no. It’s a configurable TDM against bots with not enough options. The Spartan bots are genuinely good practice though.

3

> 2533274805075298;2:
> From what I played, no. It’s a configurable TDM against bots with not enough options. The Spartan bots are genuinely good practice though.

Meh disagree. Spartan Bots are just food for grenade spams cos they just huddle together whenever possible.
The bots are sometimes “too smart it’s dumb”

The only good practice the bots give is how fast you can locate the nearest cover because once they LoS you, you will be lasered by 2AR and 2 Sidekicks.
Granted, this is unironically a very good skill to build on with how fast TTK is in Infinite atm.

4

I mean it will let you get use to the controls and weapons but only playing pvp can prepare you for PvP in my opinion.

As good as the boys are the human element will never compare to AI

5

Maybe the hard ones yes. But at the end of the day halo is a perfectly fun game to play even if you aren’t the best. Honestly I don’t understand people who only find joy by being at a 4.0 or higher kd, doesn’t that make the game hollow?

6

I believe Academy is enough, it’s meant to be a onboarding experience not a pro training camp. Matchmaking will match you with players relevant to your skill once the game has calculated your MMR anyway.

Academy functions allow players to get hands on with the game in a player friendly environment.
It allows players to learn core gameplay fundamentals at their own pace.

Bot training which allows a player to get hands on with any weapon, equipment or grenade. Have the ability to have infinite ammo, not die and adjust player counts and difficulties. Not to mention get hands on with vehicles too.

Weapon drills to be able to up the ante a bit and actually challenge their targeting skills.

There’s also parts of the Academy we haven’t had hands on with yet but we’ve seen parts of in video clips. Seems there’s a intro sequence that teaches players how to move and navigate with around a environment with jumping and clamber.

As a onboarding experience I think it really covers all the basics. If I was a new player and spent some time in academy I feel like it would really do a good job at introducing me to the mechanics of Halo Infinite.

Academy can easily be a ever evolving experience too. More can be added to it if needed.

7

Will Academy make someone with no experience with halo and first person shooters good at MP? Of course not. However they will be familiar with the style of engagement, the sandbox and halo specific mechanics. Add the player vs bots playlist to that mix where you can see other people play and interact and you have a pretty warm bath to start multiplayer in.

I really think the academy and the bots playlist are a an amazing step 343 has taken to welcome new players, and also something a halo veteran can appreciate for warming up and experimentation.

> 2533274820483063;1:
> The issue is, not everyone has time to learn and get a grasp of a new game. Often times games are stress relievers and just played for a good time after work/school. So many take this time as it is and do not want to grind learning another game.

This is very recognisable. My friends and I are “senior” gamers juggling family and work responsibilities and try to find one night each week to play together. Two of them are very negative about infinite simply because they don’t want to adapt their play style and feel like it’s a game balanced around always being around cover and a lot less guns blazing (which was a bit more forgiving in the older games but also not smart lol).
I really hope that doing some matches against marine/ODST bots will give them some confidence and motivation to tweak their game and play style.

8

> 2535422212492174;7:
> Will Academy make someone with no experience with halo and first person shooters good at MP? Of course not. However they will be familiar with the style of engagement, the sandbox and halo specific mechanics. Add the player vs bots playlist to that mix where you can see other people play and interact and you have a pretty warm bath to start multiplayer in.
>
> I really think the academy and the bots playlist are a an amazing step 343 has taken to welcome new players, and also something a halo veteran can appreciate for warming up and experimentation.
>
>
> > 2533274820483063;1:
> > The issue is, not everyone has time to learn and get a grasp of a new game. Often times games are stress relievers and just played for a good time after work/school. So many take this time as it is and do not want to grind learning another game.
>
> This is very recognisable. My friends and I are “senior” gamers juggling family and work responsibilities and try to find one night each week to play together. Two of them are very negative about infinite simply because they don’t want to adapt their play style and feel like it’s a game balanced around always being around cover and a lot less guns blazing (which was a bit more forgiving in the older games but also not smart lol).
> I really hope that doing some matches against marine/ODST bots will give them some confidence and motivation to tweak their game and play style.

Many people on this forum really don’t understand how hard it is to adapt to halo if you have been playing COD/battlefield/fortnite. Halo is played completely differently and it has its own unique mechanics.

During the flight, one friend kept getting melee killed. (I know the BXB glitch was there but it was an issue he had with halo 5 and mcc so it’s not just the glitch) I gave him all the tips I could like maintain a distance and always melee back but he cannot adjust.

The thing is, since they can compete in other shooters, it’s like hitting their pride to play bots. Or rather, why should they spend their spare time playing bots when they can just go play something else.

The problem is halos uniqueness is what makes it so amazing. It has so much depth yet is also basic at the same time when looking at the fundamentals. I do not understand why it’s so hard to see, maybe because I have played halo from the beginning I don’t understand the struggle.

9

> 2535447887837444;5:
> Maybe the hard ones yes. But at the end of the day halo is a perfectly fun game to play even if you aren’t the best. Honestly I don’t understand people who only find joy by being at a 4.0 or higher kd, doesn’t that make the game hollow?

Its not about getting a 4.0 kd, it’s about being able to compete. Getting thrashed in Slayer with 2 kills and 16 deaths is not fun. Getting 5 kills in warzone and placing 6th or winning isn’t bad.

10

> 2533274865778947;6:
> I believe Academy is enough, it’s meant to be a onboarding experience not a pro training camp. Matchmaking will match you with players relevant to your skill once the game has calculated your MMR anyway.
>
> Academy functions allow players to get hands on with the game in a player friendly environment.
> It allows players to learn core gameplay fundamentals at their own pace.
>
> Bot training which allows a player to get hands on with any weapon, equipment or grenade. Have the ability to have infinite ammo, not die and adjust player counts and difficulties. Not to mention get hands on with vehicles too.
>
> Weapon drills to be able to up the ante a bit and actually challenge their targeting skills.
>
> There’s also parts of the Academy we haven’t had hands on with yet but we’ve seen parts of in video clips. Seems there’s a intro sequence that teaches players how to move and navigate with around a environment with jumping and clamber.
>
> As a onboarding experience I think it really covers all the basics. If I was a new player and spent some time in academy I feel like it would really do a good job at introducing me to the mechanics of Halo Infinite.
>
> Academy can easily be a ever evolving experience too. More can be added to it if needed.

Ok the first thing I want to highlight is your talking about the MMR, and your right. However, in halo 5 I ranged from onyx and high diamond. One friend in plat, a Halo player like me, and the other in gold. Although, the one in gold got ranked playing with me, I think he should be lower to be honest but it doesn’t matter. Now when we play together, we end up matching mid plays or so. For me, it’s a breeze and I carry hard. For him, he struggles to get a kill. I know I used ranked as an example but social has the same effect.

Now I think academy so far is good for it’s weapon drills. Truthfully, I think a tutorial to show the fundamentals of halo would come a long way. This tutorial will show basic movement, distinguish precision weapons from non precision weapons, show the shield system, effects of grenades, effects of melee, and weapon spawns.

11

> 2533274795569076;4:
> but only playing pvp can prepare you for PvP in my opinion.

^This. But the training mode at least will help players, to get used to the controls, and they can dial in and test the sensetivity without being fragged from real people. Additional to that it will help to learn the map and to know in wich places wich items/weapons spawns.

The shooting range is a nice idea but almost useless. After playing two times you know already the pattern of the AI and this is not good training imho. It’s only useful to check and memorize how many shots an enemy needs to get down.

> 2533274820483063;10:
> > 2533274865778947;6:
> >
>
> Now I think academy so far is good for it’s weapon drills. Truthfully, I think a tutorial to show the fundamentals of halo would come a long way. This tutorial will show basic movement, distinguish precision weapons from non precision weapons, show the shield system, effects of grenades, effects of melee, and weapon spawns.

And this would be helpful too^. How Halo works in general would help newcomers. To explain how you should play specific weapons, and how you should move, slide and climb in a meaningul way and stuff like that. Even semi-casuals could possibly profit from that.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s really cool something like an academy is available and 343i can still expand the academy thrills.

12

Short opinion. Whether or not it is enough at least it exists and is a good starting point for new players. Better to have this than to have nothing. In addition, surely over the years the academy evolves to improve.

13

> 2533274820483063;10:
> > 2533274865778947;6:
> > I believe Academy is enough, it’s meant to be a onboarding experience not a pro training camp. Matchmaking will match you with players relevant to your skill once the game has calculated your MMR anyway.
> >
> > Academy functions allow players to get hands on with the game in a player friendly environment.
> > It allows players to learn core gameplay fundamentals at their own pace.
> >
> > Bot training which allows a player to get hands on with any weapon, equipment or grenade. Have the ability to have infinite ammo, not die and adjust player counts and difficulties. Not to mention get hands on with vehicles too.
> >
> > Weapon drills to be able to up the ante a bit and actually challenge their targeting skills.
> >
> > There’s also parts of the Academy we haven’t had hands on with yet but we’ve seen parts of in video clips. Seems there’s a intro sequence that teaches players how to move and navigate with around a environment with jumping and clamber.
> >
> > As a onboarding experience I think it really covers all the basics. If I was a new player and spent some time in academy I feel like it would really do a good job at introducing me to the mechanics of Halo Infinite.
> >
> > Academy can easily be a ever evolving experience too. More can be added to it if needed.
>
> Ok the first thing I want to highlight is your talking about the MMR, and your right. However, in halo 5 I ranged from onyx and high diamond. One friend in plat, a Halo player like me, and the other in gold. Although, the one in gold got ranked playing with me, I think he should be lower to be honest but it doesn’t matter. Now when we play together, we end up matching mid plays or so. For me, it’s a breeze and I carry hard. For him, he struggles to get a kill. I know I used ranked as an example but social has the same effect.
>
> Now I think academy so far is good for it’s weapon drills. Truthfully, I think a tutorial to show the fundamentals of halo would come a long way. This tutorial will show basic movement, distinguish precision weapons from non precision weapons, show the shield system, effects of grenades, effects of melee, and weapon spawns.

Bronze, Plat, Onyx etc works on a different system called CSR which is for exclusively ranked playlists.
Social playlists use MMR, I imagine newer players will be playing social more often than ranked.

Playing in a fireteam also uses a group MMR/CSR, meaning you’re all calculated as a team total score meaning if you have a exceptionally higher ranking them them you may actually be skewing the skill rank of who you’re matched against.

I think some of what you’ve listed for the academy there is actually in tool tips “shoot precision weapons at the head for better results” etc. I don’t think you need a tutorial for every minor detail.

A lot is learnt through playing too let’s not forget that, which is why the training grounds are great. You can change setting so that may not die but you’re still going to take damage and see your health & shields drop. You’re still learning the mechanics of the game.
Melee, headshots, grenades are all pretty self explanatory when you’ve spent a few minutes fiddling around with them.

I guess it really depends do you want everyone to have their hands held or should players actually be encouraged to go out and experiment with the sandbox for themselves.

14

warzone is a game that doesnt have a learning curve really. Its essentially a real world game whereas halo is way different and each gun has its unique feel so if your friend is new to halo and spends all his time playing warzone then of course he wont do as well. Personally i dont see academy as an entrance to halo but a way to get better with guns that you may or may not get to use in real multiplayer. In short academy is enough if you are just trying to train but if you dont have the time to train/learn then i guess just keep getting thrashed. Nobody is gonna get better at something if they dont train or grind so why even try playing another game if you cant spend that time.

15

> 2533274865778947;13:
> > 2533274820483063;10:
> > > 2533274865778947;6:
> > > I believe Academy is enough, it’s meant to be a onboarding experience not a pro training camp. Matchmaking will match you with players relevant to your skill once the game has calculated your MMR anyway.
> > >
> > > Academy functions allow players to get hands on with the game in a player friendly environment.
> > > It allows players to learn core gameplay fundamentals at their own pace.
> > >
> > > Bot training which allows a player to get hands on with any weapon, equipment or grenade. Have the ability to have infinite ammo, not die and adjust player counts and difficulties. Not to mention get hands on with vehicles too.
> > >
> > > Weapon drills to be able to up the ante a bit and actually challenge their targeting skills.
> > >
> > > There’s also parts of the Academy we haven’t had hands on with yet but we’ve seen parts of in video clips. Seems there’s a intro sequence that teaches players how to move and navigate with around a environment with jumping and clamber.
> > >
> > > As a onboarding experience I think it really covers all the basics. If I was a new player and spent some time in academy I feel like it would really do a good job at introducing me to the mechanics of Halo Infinite.
> > >
> > > Academy can easily be a ever evolving experience too. More can be added to it if needed.
> >
> > Ok the first thing I want to highlight is your talking about the MMR, and your right. However, in halo 5 I ranged from onyx and high diamond. One friend in plat, a Halo player like me, and the other in gold. Although, the one in gold got ranked playing with me, I think he should be lower to be honest but it doesn’t matter. Now when we play together, we end up matching mid plays or so. For me, it’s a breeze and I carry hard. For him, he struggles to get a kill. I know I used ranked as an example but social has the same effect.
> >
> > Now I think academy so far is good for it’s weapon drills. Truthfully, I think a tutorial to show the fundamentals of halo would come a long way. This tutorial will show basic movement, distinguish precision weapons from non precision weapons, show the shield system, effects of grenades, effects of melee, and weapon spawns.
>
> Bronze, Plat, Onyx etc works on a different system called CSR which is for exclusively ranked playlists.
> Social playlists use MMR, I imagine newer players will be playing social more often than ranked.
>
> Playing in a fireteam also uses a group MMR/CSR, meaning you’re all calculated as a team total score meaning if you have a exceptionally higher ranking them them you may actually be skewing the skill rank of who you’re matched against.
>
> I think some of what you’ve listed for the academy there is actually in tool tips “shoot precision weapons at the head for better results” etc. I don’t think you need a tutorial for every minor detail.
>
> A lot is learnt through playing too let’s not forget that, which is why the training grounds are great. You can change setting so that may not die but you’re still going to take damage and see your health & shields drop. You’re still learning the mechanics of the game.
> Melee, headshots, grenades are all pretty self explanatory when you’ve spent a few minutes fiddling around with them.
>
> I guess it really depends do you want everyone to have their hands held or should players actually be encouraged to go out and experiment with the sandbox for themselves.

I know the difference between CSR and MMR but I get the same issue playing in either social or ranked. Our issue is just our MMR is too drastic. Even if the game is close, he can’t compete. I’m thinking I may be the problem and should just not play with them until they get a real feel for the game.

16

Yes and no. The whole training suite (Training Mode and the Academy) is really good for situation training, weapon practice and aim honing, but the only way to really learn pvp is to play it.

17

> 2533274820483063;9:
> > 2535447887837444;5:
> > Maybe the hard ones yes. But at the end of the day halo is a perfectly fun game to play even if you aren’t the best. Honestly I don’t understand people who only find joy by being at a 4.0 or higher kd, doesn’t that make the game hollow?
>
> Its not about getting a 4.0 kd, it’s about being able to compete. Getting thrashed in Slayer with 2 kills and 16 deaths is not fun. Getting 5 kills in warzone and placing 6th or winning isn’t bad.

Hmmm… maybe instead of trying to make Halo into Call of Duty, just play… Call of Duty? Hmm… idk. Also, getting “thrashed” in slayer with 2 kills and 16 deaths is your fault, not the game’s fault.

18

Kinda down to the player, arena games will always have a harder point of entry than other types of shooters. Don’t think most online multiplayer games are that welcoming to newcomers. At least sbmm and academy can help onboard players.

I have one friend who plays Halo with me and we pretty much only play Big Team largely because he will without fail go -15 or more every game. He sounds like he’s having a blast too, every single time.

19

> 2535410017197749;17:
> > 2533274820483063;9:
> > > 2535447887837444;5:
> > > Maybe the hard ones yes. But at the end of the day halo is a perfectly fun game to play even if you aren’t the best. Honestly I don’t understand people who only find joy by being at a 4.0 or higher kd, doesn’t that make the game hollow?
> >
> > Its not about getting a 4.0 kd, it’s about being able to compete. Getting thrashed in Slayer with 2 kills and 16 deaths is not fun. Getting 5 kills in warzone and placing 6th or winning isn’t bad.
>
> Hmmm… maybe instead of trying to make Halo into Call of Duty, just play… Call of Duty? Hmm… idk. Also, getting “thrashed” in slayer with 2 kills and 16 deaths is your fault, not the game’s fault.

What are you even talking about. There is not a single thing I said on this thread that would indicate I want halo to be call of duty…just the opposite actually. How do I get my friend from call of duty to enjoy halo without getting thrashed. How do I have them make an easy transition and get to know the greatness of halo without having then get thrashed because it puts them off. Maybe read the thread next time

20

> 2533274820483063;1:
> My question is, is academy (including training mode) enough to educate and prepare non halo players for PvP?

I can answer this. No, its not enough. I have a person that I have been playing with regularly for the past 2 years or so. He’s not the best, but Is willing to play almost anything and is consistently online gaming. Mostly Cod, Battlefield, and Fortnight. This past year in preparation for Infinite. We played co-op campaign through every halo game. We only did normal since he was new and it was mainly to catch him up on the story.

I had him sign up for the flight and had him do the recommended path. First he played the weapon drills and really liked the commando because it reminded him of other shooters. Then I had him play a few games in the academy by himself which he also enjoyed. Then we played the Bot: Arena together for a few more matches, I showed him how easy the bots were by standing in the middle of the maps like Bazaar and Recharge killing every bot that popped out of a hole. He felt that he had a good grasp of the game since he’s played shooter’s for many years.

Then…we played a CTF on Bazaar in Social Arena…I think it was vs PC players. We got wrecked. Just destroyed. He didn’t get a single kill but did shoot a couple dozen times at opponents while just defending the flag. When the game was over I had to listen to this intense rant about how screwed up the game is and how he would NEVER buy a game or a battle pass if this was how it played. I’m not going to go into great detail but needless to say I nearly told the guy to shut up because Halo is my home as far as gaming is concerned. Its like going to my grandma’s house for some made from scratch pancakes and he was crapping all over what I love to my face. I was irritated…

Point being its not enough if the game plays the way it does. There nothing in the game for new players that might want to at least have a small impact on the match and they just feel useless.