Is 343 giving up?

When Bungie first announced that they were done making Halo, they signed a deal with Microsoft to develop three more games before finally leaving the franchise in order to go make Destiny.

Ensemble Studios made Halo Wars.
Bungie made Halo 3 ODST and Halo Reach.

In the meantime, there were staff members that did not want to leave Halo behind and remained with Microsoft. So while Bungie made ODST and Reach, the likes of Frank O’Connor became the executive members of a new studio that was kept secret, even the new hires that they brought in were not told that they would be working on Halo until 2010 when after Reach released and 343 Industries was officially announced as the new studio behind Halo.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but back then weren’t Frank O’Connor and the other former Bungie members who stayed behind and helped establish 343 Industries re-labeled as working underneath the employment of “Xbox Studios”?

If anything it points to the idea that Joseph Staten may be revealed a year or two from now to be the head of a new studio in charge of the Halo IP.

Optimistic possibility.
But given Joe’s track record for quality writing and direction, it may be the best course of action in the long-term.

So no. I don’t think 343 is giving up on Halo. But there may be a chance that Microsoft may be giving up on 343.

I’m saying lets not run wild with the rumors.

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Nah, let’s run wild, it’s all we have!:slightly_smiling_face:

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Giving up implies that the (old) management tried beforehand, which they most certainly did not.

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Oh the old management did try.

The issue is that they tried too hard, over-compenstating and over-designing their work.

For example, Halo 4.
Reportedly the first build of Halo 4 that was presentable had played essentially like an advanced version of Halo 3.
You know, like how a sequel should be just like the previous in the main-lineup but with a few upgrades and minor additions.
Playtesters enjoyed the experience and test audiences gave the green light to develop further.
Frank O’Connor on the other hand, who for some reason wanted to distance himself from Halo as much as possible while still trying to claim that the game would still be Halo, gave the order to scrap the original build of H4 and try again.
His reasoning?
Too traditional.
The desire to stand-out and prove that this new studio could deliver resulted in the game being too unique for a main-line title.
Gameplay was all wrong.
Visuals and Sound were nothing like the rest of the franchise.
It was as if 343 Industries just bought the rights to an IP from a company that had just gone under while having 90% of a sci-fi shooter fully developed and then decided to make some edits and then finish the game while slapping the title of “Halo 4” on a game that essentially had only 2 things in common with the Halo brand itself.

That is just one example.

The design philosophy that the executives at 343 is giving off is “New ideas are welcome. Try not to do what the past did because it is 20xx and not 2007 anymore.” Unfortunately, by the time the development studio executives realized that this design philosophy was hyper-counter-intuitive, it was too late.

Halo Infinite, despite it’s attempts at being an innovated version of the classic style of gameplay and visual presentation, had not enough development done beforehand and resulted in Halo Infinite releasing in the state it is now. A factor that the pandemic did little more than add further hurdles to the development of this game.

In a perfect world, Halo Infinite would’ve been given at least another year of development to ensure that it was more of a full-release rather than a really well polished Alpha build, and that is an estimate that requires the pandemic to not have been a thing in the first place.

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This sounds more like messing up than everything else. Seeing how long it took them to take MCC to a playable state, and I still believe that this was only done as a marketing move for gamepass and Infinite, another year wouldn’t have solved anything, more like another 4-7 maybe.

All their products have had very questionable design choices or have been straight up unplayable for several years in the case of MCC. Constant lying to the fanbase or trying to fix problems that they have created themselves.

“Yeah we removed gun customisation from the new CoD because we think that nobody uses that. Hey why is everyone angry, UI limitations blableh…”

I’m still baffled that the management hasn’t been let go after the lukewarm reception of H4 and the total disaster of MCC and can only think of behind the scenes connections.

I hope that the working people will land on their feet and find better jobs but the management and everybody else responsible needs to be fired into the sun with a giant catapult.

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yeah nothing is official yet

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This is where that ten year life of Infinite will come into play. Halo MCC continues to receive amazing updates to the game. I foresee Infinite one day reaching that level.

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It is unknown as to why the development staff at 343 didn’t receive far more scrutiny after the jarring reception of Halo 4.

Though a lot of creative leads did swap seats from Halo 4 into Halo 5’s early development. The issue with that is during the mid-development of Halo 5 the creative leads played musical chairs AGAIN and that is why that game is also a strange deviation from Halo’s status quo.
Nicholas Buver replaced Kenneth Scott as the Senior Art Director
Josh Holmes replaced Tim Longo as the Creative Director
Brian Reed replaced Christopher Schlurf as the Franchise Lead Writer
Thus
The story being set up by all the trans-media set between Halo 4 and Halo 5, especially Hunt The Truth and live-action trailers, no longer led into the same story it was supposed to. After all, the story of Halo 5 Guardians is not the story that was originally intended for Halo 5.
The visual off-shoot of Halo 4 was further enhanced and mutated into something that looked less like Halo.
And the gameplay for some reason tried to merge an FPS arena shooter with mobilty shooter aspects. Thank the rings we did not have wall-running in Halo 5 Guardians.

Not all.
The spin-offs have been great successes.
But that is mainly due to the fact that a spin-off game is allowed to deviate from the status quo of a franchise within reasonable parameters.

Take a look at Halo Wars. It is an RTS game instead of an FPS game. The design of the Marines looks quite different from the rest of the franchise’s depiction of Marines. The aliens have some issues with their body proportion designs. But the game still tries its best to look and sound like a Halo title.

Ensemble Studios made HW1. And when a sequel was made under 343’s management and developed by a different third-party studio, Creative Assembly knew that the game would have to play like the original but with some upgrades where needed. Had Halo Wars 2 played more like Command & Conquer instead of Halo Wars 1, the game would probably not be as successful.

Unfortunately, 343 took too long to understand this golden rule of game design. Had Halo 4 and Halo 5’s gameplay and art style been attributed to being spin-off titles instead of main-line titles; the fanbase would be much less irate.

As for MCC?
That was just a cheap cash-grab by 343 at the time. And like I said in my previous post on this thread, 343 overdid it. The consumer base was wanting Halo 2 Anniversary. Had 343 focused development efforts with Saber Interactive and Certain Affinity on just H2A instead of trying to make a compilation of the mainline games from beginning to end, then 2014’s release game would’ve been likely more well developed and networked.
Instead, 343 tried too hard to stand out when there was no crowd to stand out from. And Halo MCC was practically unplayable for half a decade.

Same.
Halo 4’s player count dropped harder than Halo Infinite’s. And it resulted in Halo 4 having to scrap Year 2 and Year 3 post-launch content.
In the game files you can find the early builds and file-names for many of Certain Affinity’s DLC map packs.
Some of the armors in Halo 5 were actually intended to be DLC content for Halo 4, such as the Mark IV armor set.
And Seasons 2 and 3 of Spartan Ops had their stories added to the Halo Escalation comic series, extending what likely was originally going to be a 4 issue series into a 24 issue series.

You would think that after such a “resounding success” that Microsoft would start hovering over 343’s shoulder when making the next game in order to ensure such an embarrassment doesn’t happen again to their Xbox’s flagship character.

Imagine if Nintendo had entrusted a studio to develop exclusively the Mario franchise and then didn’t have precision oversight on all aspects of development to the franchise, especially after the first game from said studio did barely anything that the franchise entails.
Hearing Nintendo do such a thing would be ludicrous and irresponsible.
And yet, Microsoft decided instead to allow 343 to carry on seemingly consequence free.

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i really hope so. Its definitly not impossible

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i dont mean the people being fired giving up lol. they didnt have a choice sadly

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Thanks a lot for the details; much appreciated. I don’t know how much hands on or off 343 was during HW1 and HW2. So, a lot of credit may be directed at Ensemble and CA. Regarding the PC port of MCC, I read that Splash Damage (ET, ETQW and Brink lol) was mostly responsible for that.

It would be interesting to see some deep behind the scenes view on what the hell happend during the last decade; I mean some stuff you can’t even make up…

The future will be interesting and maybe we’ll get an update whenever they “emerge from their cocoon” :facepunch:

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Not at all. Bungie was still in the lead of Halo at the time. 343 was only being assembled a this time period.
Halo Wars 1 was originally a separate game being developed called PROJECT_PHOENIX.
When Ensemble revealed it to Microsoft, they had Ensemble make the game into a Halo game and forced Bungie & Ensemble to work together and come to a compromise.
Bungie put in a set of restrictions, such as having it take place REALLY early in the Human-Covenant War, no Halo rings allowed in the story, and no Master Chief.

Ensemble did a great job.

Halo Wars 2 had 343 doing oversight of the project while Creative Assembly did all the work.
Basically 343 members wrote the script while CA and Blur did the heavy lifting.

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Every game thats promised a 10 year plan has ultimately gone back on it.

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Shall I introduce to you Thomas Leo Clancy The Third’s Rainbow Six Siege? Currently finishing up Year 8 Season 4 OPERATION // SOLAR RAID and then is to move into Year 9?

Not to mention Gabe “Gaben” Newell’s Team Fortress The Second?

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The plan for Infinite to last 10 years before the next installment has never been stronger than it is now.

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I cannot tell if this is satire or this is your actual take on the current circumstances of Halo Infinite?

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Bro this isn’t just “the worst ending”. This is the Lord of Frenzied Flame ending (elden ring spoiler warning)

Quite a few gaming websites have jumped on the reports that Microsoft have pulled 343 from making Halo games and instead will focus on managing the IP and overseeing other developers that will be working on the series.

I know we’ll probably never know everything that has and is going on behind the scenes but I’d really love to know.

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That doesn’t exactly instill confidence considering how well the leadership has done at that job in the past. Other developers might be able to execute 343’s plans better, but if current 343 leadership is still guiding the ship then best case scenario is simply a flop that has less technical issues.

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