Iron sights: the real reason they'll never be in halo

Most everyone automatically shouts “NO CALL OF DUTY IN MY HALO!” But making elements of Halo more like CoD is not the main reason that iron sights will never appear in a Halo game. The number one reason is far more simple: in all of the Halo titles (except Wars), you play as either a Spartan or an ODST. What do these characters have in common? Weapons that smart-link to the HUD in their visors. Iron sights aren’t needed because the the technology in the canon is so far advanced. In fact, actual sights don’t even appear on any weapons except for a few of them (shotgun, SMG). Hard to sight down a weapon that doesn’t physically have sights.

Iron sights on any Covie weapon would be ridiculous (except for brute weapons) and the smart linked thing

thats what i say in all the threads asking about ironsights…

It wouldn’t feel like i am playing a Halo game with Iron Sights. I do prefer the scoping in the Halo games, it gives the game an identity; something to stand out from the crowd.

> thats what i say in all the threads asking about ironsights…

Me too.

I think that it would be stupid to put sights on a weapon if the person using it doesn’t need it.

The title is misleading to me. your stated reason in your OP is not the real reason, at lest one stated by 343i. It’s more of you’re opinion on why iron sights are not in Halo.
Also, we don’t truly know if there will or will not be iron sights in Halo, there are a number of reasons on why there could be iron sights in Halo, some of which takes your “real reason” and turns it on it’s head.
Like, lets take the ODST’s, their SMG has a reflex sight, which is just a high tech version of the iron sights, and you don’t expect them to try firing that weapon with out the helmet on, a weapon like the pistols, rifles, and SMGs would be useless unless you had the helmet on.

Iron Sights isn’t a Halo thing, that’s why it wont ever be in the game.

> Iron Sights isn’t a Halo thing, that’s why it wont ever be in the game.

This is quite arrogant. I believe that the concept could definitely find its way in in some fashion, but it wouldn’t be necessary. I think that it would be too big of a gameplay element change to incorporate on a huge scale, but there is no reason that IS couldn’t find its way into a non-scope-able weapon such as a brute (or maybe forerunner?) weapon.

In contact harvest Sgt.Johnson uses iron sites on the pistol but i use your argument also and it makes sense! just thought i would add that lol

> > Iron Sights isn’t a Halo thing, that’s why it wont ever be in the game.
>
> This is quite arrogant. I believe that the concept could definitely find its way in in some fashion, but it wouldn’t be necessary. I think that it would be too big of a gameplay element change to incorporate on a huge scale, but there is no reason that IS couldn’t find its way into a non-scope-able weapon such as a brute (or maybe forerunner?) weapon.

Wait a sec, I forgot to point out something. Iron sights are already in the game, you can’t look down them, but they are there. And if you ask where. Shotgun.

Also you have to remember that these Spartans and ODSTs are wearing pretty big helmets.
To aim down the sight would be impossible cause their helmets would limit that.
Thus would make sense to implement a digital iron sight(should coin that term).

> Wait a sec, I forgot to point out something. Iron sights are already in the game, you can’t look down them, but they are there. And if you ask where. Shotgun.

I already pointed that out in my OP.

> Also you have to remember that these Spartans and ODSTs are wearing pretty big helmets.
> To aim down the sight would be impossible cause their helmets would limit that.

True story, just try using iron sights in real life while wearing earmuff-style hearing protection. Even if you can do it comfortably, the recoil instantly makes it uncomfortable.

> The title is misleading to me. your stated reason in your OP is not the real reason, at lest one stated by 343i. It’s more of you’re opinion on why iron sights are not in Halo.

Do you think I have the energy to search for 343i’s reason on whether they include ironsights? And did I ever say that this wasn’t my opinion?

> Like, lets take the ODST’s, their SMG has a reflex sight, which is just a high tech version of the iron sights, and you don’t expect them to try firing that weapon with out the helmet on, a weapon like the pistols, rifles, and SMGs would be useless unless you had the helmet on.

Which was one of the main points in my OP…did you even read it? I specifically said that the weapons link to the helmets.

Regardless of whichever explanation one prefers most in the fictional background - “Smart”
Targeting Datalink, Visor Heads Up Displays, et al - the lack of iron sights shows in the
Halo franchise the limits of both programming technology and the practical knowledge
of the designers.

Keep in mind, this franchise began prior to the Call of Duty and Battlefield series, whose
“Aim Down the Sight” feature is still a fairly new concept in relation to game coding. It
was likely not practical, due to time, budget and the available technology for the original
Halo. Now, as impressive the first game is, it is quite dated in the span of only ten years.

Today, the MA37/MA5, what they laughingly refer to as an assault rifle, has more polygons
than the original model for the Master Chief Warrant Officer 117.

He is in fact, a Warrant Officer, not a Petty Officer, which is a Navy NCO. Lower enlisted
in the series would not call him “Sir” otherwise. If he were really a Petty Officer, they
would call him either Chief or Petty Officer. This shows the lack of research on the part
of the writers. The same as they did not think to include iron sights on some of their
signature weapons, thinking the FS2000, which they based the MA series rifle on, does not
have them . . . which is incorrect.

Do I hold any of that against them? Of course not, they were creating a space opera, not a
Infantry Combat Simulator like ArmA.

It is a game. Entertaining, innovative, more story-driven than its comtemporaries of the
day, but still a game. So, as a US Army Veteran, I am not getting too worked up over it.
We played the original in iraq all the time, we loved Red vs. Blue because it is hilarious,
but we know little research was conducted in relation to how the military and its tools
work. The 7.62 NATO cartridge, first introduced in 1947, is the standard round in the 26th
century? That round can easily liquify a human head at ranges of up to 600 meters, yet it
cannot kill a three foot tall clumsy, alien asthmatic munchkin at touching distance? Why
not a fictional caliber in that case?

That idea is not new, when James Cameron used caseless munitions as common issue in Aliens?

This was so the game would have flying brass in the firing animation . . . nothing wrong
with that, it adds detail that gamers like. At the time, brass ejection was also a fairly
new feature in games. Today, no one thinks twice, unless, like earlier Battlefields, they
mirror the small arms to eject left . . . which REALLY demonstrates their stupidity.

The defunct XM8 assault carbine, which we in the 101st Airborne were supposed to deploy
with in 2005 as a combat test, had as standard, a hybrid optical reflex/IR aiming laser
sight. It STILL had backup iron sights built in at the insistance of we in the Infantry.

Back up iron sights are a MUST, as what happens when your M68, EO Tech, ACOG, or “Smart
Scope” go down? And they WILL go down, either through damage or being made on a Monday,
the only question is when?

Yet is this necessary in a space opera game? When they would never actually be used?

No . . . the rifle has a taclight you can never use either, which is annoying enough.

The aim down the sights feature is simply not in Bungie or 343’s production design theme
for the game series. To implement it now, would elicit grief from Halo purists and scorn
from COD/BF players, proving not worth the headaches. It would cost too much time and money
to develop, implement and incorporate small arms - primarily the assault rifle - whose
designs allow for this. Since the game is built around form over function, that would prove
to be a pointless excersise.

Why mess with what works on a flagship project anyway?

This retro-future military truly does not enough systems appropriate to the 2550’s, such as
particle beams, rifle/pistol sized lasers or at least rail/gauss magnetic driven weapon
systems. Bullets are going to be the standard for at least the next century, as they are
proven and practical. Mass with potential/kinetic energy is far more destructive than energy
without mass, to have lasers or microwaves capable of killing enemy personnel in the field,
at present, is not feasible, both tactically and fiscally. Plasma, in truth, is little more
than exotic steam, and will behave like steam . . . but it SOUNDS cool. Bullets and other
projectiles are a “pennies on the pound” solution, the only question is how to propel them,
which is more a political question than technological.

Look up the history of the H&K G11K2 caseless assault rifle. The collapse of The Berlin
Wall proved its downfall, as the West German government now had TWO armies to equip and
supply, bringing about the conventional G36 assault rifle and carbine system, of which
the XM8 was the Americanized variant. Interesting how things travel in circles . . .

The Halo series is contemporary space opera, recognized with each sequel as the means of
telling a growing story.

Hard science and real military Tactics, Techniques and Procedures need not apply.

And so what? As a Soldier and Veteran, I had fun with it, hope you did too.

Incidentally, shooting with a MICH ballistic helmet while wearing Oakley’s and Peltor ear
protection is not hard to do. As a Sergeant, I used them to stay tied into my radio comms
with the squad and platoon. Even when using a four-power ACOG, which uses a three inch eye
relief, sighting in on the threat was never an issue.

Funny, I think my M4 with M855A1 rounds would be more effective against those -Yoink!- seven
foot tall purple lizards than what the UNSC issues in their Battalion MTOE . . .

Though like Dennis Miller says: “But that’s just my opinion . . . I could be wrong . . .”

the only reason ironsights should/could be in Halo is for canon-purposes only. for the sake of the normal marines.

> …has more polygons
> than the original model for the Master Chief Warrant Officer 117.

Which is it? Someone can either be a Master Chief or a Warrant Officer, not both.

> He is in fact, a Warrant Officer, not a Petty Officer, which is a Navy NCO. Lower enlisted in the series would not call him “Sir” otherwise. If he were really a Petty Officer, they would call him either Chief or Petty Officer. This shows the lack of research on the part of the writers.

As a Navy veteran, allow me to clear this up. He is a Master Chief Petty Officer (which is not the same as a Petty Officer), hence the name “Master Chief.” NPC’s call him “Sir” because of the writers’ lack of research, and also because they thought “Master Chief” sounded like a cool thing for you to be called–different from so many games where you’re “Sarge this” or “General that”. They would not call him Chief because he is not a Chief–he’s a Master Chief. And don’t even think about addressing a Chief or above as “Petty Officer”–your -Yoink- will get chewed up one side and down the other. http://www.ccsu.edu/page.cfm?p=845

> Back up iron sights are a MUST, as what happens when your M68, EO Tech, ACOG, or “Smart Scope” go down? And they WILL go down, either through damage or being made on a Monday, the only question is when?
> Yet is this necessary in a space opera game? When they would never actually be used?
> No . . . the rifle has a taclight you can never use either, which is annoying enough.

Good point with the backup ironsights, but another problem is that it’s completely implausible to put ironsights on most Halo weapons because of their awkward physical shape. Like the ammo counter on the assault rifle–how could you sight down that thing? Also, you don’t use the gun’s light because there’s flashlights built into your helmet.

> The aim down the sights feature is simply not in Bungie or 343’s production design theme for the game series. To implement it now, would elicit grief from Halo purists and scorn from COD/BF players, proving not worth the headaches.

THIS IS A PERFECTLY-WORDED REASON FOR WHY WE WILL NEVER SEE THEM. Thank you for finding the right words instead of “Because it wouldn’t be Halo then!”

> …or at least rail/gauss magnetic driven weapon
> systems.

No kidding, we’ve got rail gun tests going on right now. Plus it’s the main aerial defense option for the UNSC, so why couldn’t they make an infantry version?

> Hard science and real military Tactics, Techniques and Procedures need not apply.
>
> And so what? As a Soldier and Veteran, I had fun with it, hope you did too.

Bet your -Yoink- I did. I did have an issue with Anniversary, in that Sgt. Johnson now sports the chevrons of a First Class Petty Officer on his chest.

Thank you for the reply, Exiled!

My father was a Naval Aviator who served aboard the USS Forrestal and USS Intrepid,
among other carriers. He still teases me every so often about “jumping out of a
perfectly good airplane only to be surrounded on the ground” in the 173d Airborne.

When I PCS’d to Fort Campbell, he then teased me about “Riding with guys that beat
the air into submission instead of just flying through it.” When I went back to Italy,
he asked if I “pressed the rewind or reset button”. I reminded him that I worked for a
living in the Army.

Well . . . that and I did not have the math skills to be a Viper or Hornet Driver. When I
add two plus two, it gets me “Blue Square”.

He is proud of me, especially since I brought the young men I was responsible for home
from both iraq and afghanistan. It was sixty percent luck, but I will take it.

A CW5 in the Army is refered to as a Master Chief Warrant Officer, since The Eighties
as I understand. They are officially commissioned by the Commander in Chief instead of
the Congress. I have never seen one, myself . . . maybe it is the Army’s unicorn? Or does
this mean the Chief is actually in the Army?

I saw a CW4 once . . . then I fast roped out of his bird onto a rooftop with my team
following. More serious work to do at the time, you understand.

Of course, you know already the entire system is a composite of whatever looked or
sounded cool at the time. The M118 7.62NATO cartridge they cite as standard issue is
in fact, our Sniper round, I used M118LRs in my M14 as a Designated Marksman. It is
not armor-piercing either, but an open nosed “Barrier Blind” anti-personnel round.

That it is open nosed, for breaking through glass with minimal deflection as well as
aerodynamics, it is not for general use. Then again, as the frenchman on Noble Team,
who could not hit the broadside of a barn from the INSIDE said: “[T]hey ain’t cheap.”

Then again, the Marines are employing an open nosed 5.56 called SOST . . . but I had
amazing results with M855A1s. Hit talibans at 400 and 500 meters with my M4 and they
DROPPED. Turned my carbine into a mankiller! As mentioned earlier, I would like to use
it on those dancing nancys that go “Wort! Wort! Wort!”

I am glad the Spartan in question is a Soldier, or at least in the Navy . . . got tired of
“The Anonymous Space Marine” trope myself. Seems most game designers decided
the US Army is not good enough to save mankind in the future . . . tell that to the
Rangers and Parachute Infantry!

They called Gunnery Sergeant Johnson “Sir” as well . . . surprised he did not boot
those troops in the face, out of reflex.

You will note similar errors in James Cameron’s Aliens. Gunnery Sergeant Apone, on
whom it seems Johnson is based, wears the Class A stripes of an Army Sergeant First
Class on his BDUs. Both are E7,but a Gunnery Sergeant’s Class A’s are red with crossed
Springfields. Of course, you would not wear dress rank on a combat uniform anyway, but
it had to be visible in the frame, to reinforce that he was the NCOIC to the audience.

Though as I have come to learn, an E6 Staff Sergeant can run a platoon in the Marine
Corps, as Coporals are Team Leaders and Sergeants Squad Leaders. In the Army Infantry,
Corporals are rare, high-speed E4 Specialists and E5 Sergeants run teams, E6 Staff
Sergeants run squads, and normally an E7 Sergeant First Class heads a rifle platoon.

Also, Private Hudson - and how many times did that knucklehead get busted down,
considering his age? - calling him “Sarge”? That ALONE would warrant a wall to wall
counseling . . . the same as calling a good Soldier a “Joe”, one had better be prepared
to fight for committing such heinous slander.

“Joe” is the lowest form of life in the Army, lawyers, used car salesmen, and congress
rate higher . . .

You asked what could be done to make indexing the sights possible. I would reshape
the round counter into something that would either work as a holo or reflex sight, with
a count at its base. Create a channel, like the FAMAS to give the optic a field of view,
place a BIS system and tasking complete.

The bullpup rifles all need more length of pull as well, since there does not appear
to be enough room in the stock for the bolt carrier group to cycle with proven methods
today. The Soviets had a designer named Korobov who developed some radical ideas in
the mid and late forties. One was the TKB022PM, with the magazine at the very end of
the receiver, using a “pull forward” method of loading cartridges in place of a bolt
carrier group.

I must reiterate, however, Halo is form over function, and cool rules all.

I also want to know how they drop mag capacity from fifty to thirty-two, when I had
real trouble eliminating threats with the fifty-count. Those capacities are possible
with multi-column magazines. Surefire has just released sixty and one hundred count
mags for the AR15 platform and MagPul will work their own polymer magic very soon.

Good chatting with you, Exiled, have a better one.

> Or does this mean the Chief is actually in the Army?

I don’t think so, because how many times have you heard him called Warrant Officer? And maybe the Army is different, but in the Navy we never called the Warrant Officers anything but “Warrant” or “Warrant Officer” or “Sir/Ma’am”–NEVER “Chief.”

> > Or does this mean the Chief is actually in the Army?
>
> I don’t think so, because how many times have you heard him called Warrant Officer? And maybe the Army is different, but in the Navy we never called the Warrant Officers anything but “Warrant” or “Warrant Officer” or “Sir/Ma’am”–NEVER “Chief.”

he’s definitely Navy.

official rank: Master Chief Petty Officer of The Navy John-117, of UNSC NavSpecWar Command.

IRL, MCPON is actually the highest non-com rank.

I suppose that is the proof . . . that the people that wrote this up had NO
idea of what they were doing . . . but it SOUNDED cool! Run with it!!!

If Spartan117 really is THE highest ranking non-commissioned officer in the
navy, then we should never see him at all . . . not once.

As he would be too busy filling out paperwork, going to meetings, figuring
training requirements for new personnel, answering idiot congressmen and
senator questions during hearings . . .

“No congressman . . . the island of Guam will NOT capsize if we increase the
complement of Marines and their dependants on it . . . you idiot shizno.”

The Spartans were ultimately organic weapon systems, correct? I have not
read much about them, admittedly . . . and I find it disturbing that, in
their founding, they were little better than a future death squad, like
some rancid marxist third-world cesspool . . . that is why I stopped.

Better to not read the background . . . that way, I can fool myself into
thinking he and his fellows are all patriotic Soldiers, Marines, Sailors,
and Airmen. Volunteering to hold the line and give all for the people and
the ideals they swore to protect.

Yes . . . I am archaic that way . . .

I even fly Old Glory in front of my house . . .

Have a better one, fellas.