Invasion: Breakpoint - Tier 3; What the hell happened?

I have a question; why has the third Tier in Breakpoint yet to see any kind of re-balance?

The first two tiers of Breakpoint are probably the most fun and balanced of the three Invasion maps. However, that completely comes apart during Tier 3.

The Elites get:

Ghost
Wraith
Banshee

Needle Rifles
Plasma Pistols
Plasma Grenades

The SPARTANs get:

Rocket Hog
Chaingun Hog
Falcon
Rockets x3
SPARTAN Laser
Sniper Rifle

DMRs
Grenade Launchers
Armor Lock

All of the Elite’s vehicles are torn apart by the DMR, nevermind the the fact that the SPARTANS can spawn with an Anti-Vehicle weapon and have 6 Anti-Vehicle weapons on the map and the superior air vehicle (for this map) and ground vehicles. Yet the Elites don’t get a single Fuel Rod, Plasma Launcher or Focus Rifle. Their spawn weapons are poor for anti-vehicle purposes, save for Plasma Sticks.

So how is this fair? To expect the Elites in Tier 3 in anything other than an extremely lopsided match is stupidity; the Banshee will be decimated by DMR or Rocket fire, the Wraith with meet doom at the GL or SL and the Ghost ain’t worth the scrap used to make it. So the Elites have a long, open trek down the bridge where Sniper and DMR fire will constantly pound them, ignoring the SPARTANs vehicles. Not to mention it is completely possible to steal all of the Elite’s vehicles off spawn.

-I should note as an edit that I am omitting times when the SPARTAN or Elite equipment simply refuses to spawn, thereby rendering this a moot point.

I never have a problem with Tier 3…

Tier 3 is fine.

> I never have a problem with Tier 3…

I dont. probably has something to do with the banshee>falcon formula.

> I dont. probably has something to do with the banshee>falcon formula.

That is true…on Maps like Spire and Hemorrhage where there are long, open amounts of air space for the Banshee to line up on the Falcon.

However on Breakpoint, the air-to-air space is very compact and filled with obstacles. This actually favors the Falcon because of the Fuel Bomb’s poor turning power, and the Banshee’s inability to sit still or rotate in place or in small amount.

> I dont. probably has something to do with the banshee>falcon formula.

That’s just an extension of the Banshee>uncoordinated team formula.
It has been my experience that many times, Falcon>Banshee

invasion is an embarrassingly balanced playlist. there is no reason for both teams to not get the same loadouts.

pistol vs plasma repeater. DERP MORE?!?!?!?!!?

the LEAST they could do is start each team with their DMR equivalent (spartans get DMR’s, elites get Needle rifles).

sigh. then it just goes downhill from there. invasion is a joke playlist right now, sad to say, but its totally true. the balance just isnt there.

> invasion is an embarrassingly balanced playlist. there is no reason for both teams to not get the same loadouts.
>
> pistol vs plasma repeater. DERP MORE?!?!?!?!!?
>
> the LEAST they could do is start each team with their DMR equivalent (spartans get DMR’s, elites get Needle rifles).
>
> sigh. then it just goes downhill from there. invasion is a joke playlist right now, sad to say, but its totally true. the balance just isnt there.

So, is it balanced or not? Make up your mind…

Tier 3 is fine - in my experience the Elites are usually spawn killing the Spartans with Wraith + Banshee before the Spartans can get any vehicles running. As for all the power weapons, the Banshee still cover the raised platform with ease and the Wraith is more than capable of handling both the barracks and Vehicle Bay.
And that still leaves 4 more NR toting Elites to deal with.

Invasion is a game of momentum - if the Elites carry their momentum on from the previous round there shouldn’t be many problems but if they can’t maintain that momentum than the Spartans are given the means to scrounge a point back with a successful defense.

> > invasion is an embarrassingly balanced playlist. there is no reason for both teams to not get the same loadouts.
> >
> > pistol vs plasma repeater. DERP MORE?!?!?!?!!?
> >
> > the LEAST they could do is start each team with their DMR equivalent (spartans get DMR’s, elites get Needle rifles).
> >
> > sigh. then it just goes downhill from there. invasion is a joke playlist right now, sad to say, but its totally true. the balance just isnt there.
>
> So, is it balanced or not? Make up your mind…

Good. I thought I was the one who’s confused, but it’s apparently not me. =)

On topic, I’ve never had problems in Tier 3 on Breakpoint. Even though Spartans get a crapload of heavy/anti-vehicle weapons, I have the feeling that the Elites win more often on Breakpoint than they do on Boneyard or the Spartans on Spire.

> Invasion is a game of momentum - if the Elites carry their momentum on from the previous round there shouldn’t be many problems but if they can’t maintain that momentum than the Spartans are given the means to scrounge a point back with a successful defense.

Yep. If the Elites are they guarding the bomb, then they should have no problem picking it up and walking down the road with it after the doors get blown…

> > Invasion is a game of momentum - if the Elites carry their momentum on from the previous round there shouldn’t be many problems but if they can’t maintain that momentum than the Spartans are given the means to scrounge a point back with a successful defense.
>
> Yep. If the Elites are they guarding the bomb, then they should have no problem picking it up and walking down the road with it after the doors get blown…

They shouldn’t, because their Wraith should be in the courtyard destroying any vehicles or people with power weapon who leave the barracks or motor pool and one of their respawning players should use the banshee to harass the platform spawn. That still leaves 3 with Needle Rifles and 1 to move the core tot he extraction point.

The Spartans have a load of weapons but if they aren’t given the opportunity to use them they don’t have an effect on the game.

The first tier of Invasion is works roughly like this;

Spartans have very reliable weapons but are slower and less durable than the enemy.
Elites have somewhat reliable weapons but are faster and slightly more durable than the enemy.

The trade-off is that Elites tend to have to work as paired units more so than Spartan in tier 1. Yes a pair of Pistols downs an Elite quickly, but a charged Plasma Pistol followed by a beat-down and/or Plasma Repeater and especially a Needler, makes for a quick death too. Elites quickly loose their seemingly weapon disadvantage the moment they trade up for an AR, Pistol or NR that is in the spawn.

Tier 2 is where the tables can turn quickly. The NR is a match for the DMR. Thanks to the increased ROF, the harassing power of the NR by a pair of Elites is currently much greater than a pair of DMRs.
Pretty much at this point, the Spartans get the advantage of being able to harm vehicles as well as infantry while the Elites get to harm the infantry while still being able to disable vehicles. Because of this, Elites with their ability to regenerate fully are suddenly much more capable default hunters.

Tier 3, all bets are off. And if I had more time, I’d type more about it but I have to go.

> I never have a problem with Tier 3…

Most people pwn as Elites on Tier 3.

I’m back for tier 3. Tier 3 ends up mixing the ideas of tiers 1 and 2. Spartans get stronger weapons overall compared to the Elites. More specifically, when matched role for role, the human weapon almost always comes out as the stronger" of the two. But what prevents the Elites from being nearly as handicapped as tier 1, the combination of weapon and AA per loadout allows the Elites to dominate the other weapons that are not the human equivalent to. In the end, because tier 3 tends to be vehicle dominate, the NR/PP combo is removed to prevent the noob-combo from being too strong right off the spawn for the Evader (who keeps the human vehicles in check in tier 2, thanks to said power).

And vehicle wise, Elites get an advantage on anti-infantry while Spartans get an advantage with anti-vehicle warfare. Elites are by no means defenseless with their anti-vehicle weapons in tier 3. They don’t have AL but they do have the Concussion Rifle and Plasma Pistol to deal with vehicles right off the spawn. Spartans get AL as a great defense AND get the Pro-Pipe AND get the DMR as other viable options where a pair or more of said Spartans can easily decimate any non-tank vehicle, human of Covie.
The Banshee is obviously a very dominating force. It is weak against team fired DMRs that don’t happen as often as one would hope for. If there’s a Scorpion or gauss-'Hog, it’s not much of a problem. Problem is, there isn’t many times you get to face a Banshee versus a gauss or Scorpion in non Invasion gametypes. The lock-on helps with vehicles for the fuel-rod shot, but it is slow and avoidable in a lot of instances, save for the Scorpion (but it gets to kill the Banshee anyways).

The Spartans get great anti-vehicle weapons that aren’t too shabby against infantry, but they do lack weapons on ALL vehicles. The Scorpion is very dominating in the open but luckily, like all tanks, very vulnerable when surrounded by large cover.

Damn got to go again but hey, it’s a start. Needless to say, tier 3 has a lot to offer. More on that later.