Instead of getting rid of playlists fully populated with players. Get rid of Bot Bootcamp

By 343i’s logic of lowest populated playlist goes, this Bot playlist should go before playlists that are fully made up of people are removed from the rotation. If people want to fight nothing but bots, they can set up a custom game and replicate all the fun of shooting fish in a barrel.

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Or just add more playlists. Other Halo games had more. If people can’t find games in some at certain times, they can choose another playlist for the time being.

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Ideally this is how the MP would be. But 343i somehow goofed their code and now they can’t have more than 10 playlists up at a time.

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Maybe, but I don’t know if I am going to take anything 343 says at face value at this time.

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My bad, I made a typo, I meant to say they CAN’T do more than 10 playlists.
For sure they goofed big time.

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I think it is a bad idea to decide if a playlist should get the boot or not solely on player numbers as in the case of bot bootcamp there is definitely more to consider.

  1. Unlike other playlists bot bootcamp only requires 4 players to start a game meaning it is still one of the fastest playlists to find games throughout the day despite the lower population. Heck It doesn’t run into the same issues a lot of higher population playlists do. I wouldn’t be surprised if a major factor LSS got removed was due to wait times alongside population.

  2. I feel like in general there should be more casual experiences to introduce players to the game that still rewards them to an extent. Not many new players want to sit in training mode making 0 progress towards challenges. There aren’t even campaign challenges like in MCC lol.

  3. There are numerous low tier challenges that don’t require PVP to complete and these would just sort of become unfair due to the lower xp rewards if the only non PVP mode was removed. As someone who has done the challenges each week I cannot stress enough how much time bot bootcamp saves me over having to play longer sweaty pvp matches.

I think in general we should be complaining about the playlist system as a whole. The fact that they can only have so few, don’t rotate enough and fail to give us a match composer like previous games is ridiculous and the real problem here. There will always be a playlist at the bottom but that doesn’t necessarily mean it should be removed.

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No. <20 characters >

This is all well and good. Until you notice that a BOT playlist with the lowest population stays while an actual PVP playlist that more people are playing gets removed. I’ll all for fixing the XP system for causal, mid, and hardcore players, but it should never come at the cost of real PVP game modes.

I agree 100%. Until the system is fixed I will push for the removal of a mode with bots over one with players.

I don’t even see why they have to get rid of any of it is the UI so freaking buggy that it can’t handle a certain amount of playlist.

The hell are they running this game on, some Dollar Tree level Game engine or something…
Oh in other news the New COD is going to have Split screen … So yea,

Dude how did a Damn COD game already announce having more features at launch than Halo Infinite does Almost a year later

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You didn’t address his points though. BOT Bootcamp serves as an introduction to Halo multiplayer so that players who are new to the Infinite can learn maps, layouts, and strategies in a less intensive environment. Sure you can relegate that to Custom Games, but you’re now relying on players going to Custom Games to do so, and I don’t believe most are going to do so.

You can say that LSS and Land Grab can stay, and I’ll actually agree with you, but removing the sole PVE mode in the game isn’t going to bring them back. I would argue and say that the reason Social BTB, Land Grab and LSS are underplayed is because players are rushing to play them for Events, and the vocal minority who are saying how fun they are not representative of the majority. I can tell you that as soon as I had the LSS challenges done for the Event, I never touched LSS again. 343’s event model ensures that these modes are temporary because it absolutely burns players out by having them grind for hours on matches.

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I feel like bot bootcamp should live with the training academy.

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Did not see a reason in addressing those points in detail because I’m am not one to think that people are so stupid that they can’t figure out how to play online games without a dedicated bot playlist. I’m assuming close to a 100% of us here have been introduced to MP and all the game modes by simply playing any given game against other players. The lack of bots has not been a negative to any franchise this far.

I like @pervadiso idea of moving bot matches from MP to the academy.

Campaign is a better and more engaging PvE mode than fighting brain dead bots, who half the time just stand still and let you kill them. This mode is nothing more than shooting fish in a barrel.

While it might not bring back playlist that have been removed already, but it would extend the lives of other MP playlists that would be considered for the chopping block.

People play these modes to learn how to play the game in a semi “real” environment where they can properly utilize weapons and try out new strats without the pressure of Ranked or Social.

The entire point of making Halo Infinite F2P was to break out to a broader audience who may not have previously played Halo games. People who go on dedicated forums will assuredly know how to play. Players who are playing Halo for the first time, like those coming off of something like Call of Duty, will understand the basics but not the finer nuances of how Halo gameplay works.

Bot-based modes are extremely popular amongst less skilled members of the playerbase. Not everyone wants to play Ranked, and there are a good portion of people who want to play PVE with their friends. Which is currently impossible in quite literally any mode except for Bot Bootcamp.

The campaign isn’t free. It requires either a $60 purchase (or whatever it is on sale) or the purchase of Gamepass. Halo Infinite’s MP is free to play.

It quite literally would not. This is not a situation in which Bot Bootcamp has a negative correlation with the removal of certain modes. Bot Bootcamp can stick around because it’s maximum 4 players vs AI, and does not negatively impact the matchmaking experience for most players due to it’s low requirements and low amount of players overall. The removal of Bot Bootcamp does not guarantee that other game modes will also not be removed in the future. You wanting it to be removed is a different discussion entirely that is divorced from the crux of the complaint that you’ve put forward.

Spoiler alert: Whatever you do will be 100% effective because the bots do not put up a fight. You can run around and get perfections with nothing but the plasma pistol. This is not “semi” real environment, unless the environment we are talking about is a boosting lobby.

The completed quote was about playing any MP game. COD, Halo, Titanfall, Destiny, CS, Ghost recon etc. The last 40 years of MP gameplay shows that there is no need for BOTs to grow a fanbase or for players to learn the “finer nuances” of different games. You’re making it sound like people are overly stupid, which they are not.

I don’t care if its extremely popular with the people who do not play PvP. Move it as a feature to customs or the academy. Have your fish in a barrel game mode there.
As for the significant portion of the player base that wants to play PVE with friends, this isn’t the mode they want to play. They want FF or co-op campaign. They don’t want a boring mode where you shoot bots who don’t fight back.

I don’t care. Bot Bootcamp should not be taking away space from actual PvP playlists in MM.

Yes, it would actually extend the lives of the other playlists. 343i has an issue with the ammount of playlists they can have up at a time. 4 players or 8 or 18, the Bot bootcamp takes up a playlist slot. Taking it out ensures that actual PvP playlists stick around longer.

It would expand the amount of time that PvP playlists stay up. My request is directly related to the removal of the Bot Boot camp from the playlists selection because it takes up one of the limited playlists slots. My WANT is for there to not be a dumb issue limiting the MP playlists.

And that’s part of learning how to use these weapons practically and in an environment that’s more conducive to learning how to play the game.

I think you’re vastly overestimating the average player’s intelligence. Games are designed around players not knowing how to play them. Valve is a great example of this - for Half-Life, Valve designed their games to sign-post a situation and then present the solution to that problem. The first time you encounter a Barnacle in Half-Life 2, it snatches a bird and eats it. Bones pop out of the Barnacle as well. This indicates that the Barnacle is a threat - if you are hit by its tongue, you become immobilized and it will hurt/kill you. The solution is to avoid the Barnacle. The Barnacles are also close enough to the ground in that sequence to be killed without being grabbed.

This is why Call of Duty, of all games, has a Bot Training mode. You cannot assume the player automatically knows how to play the game.

And can you honestly say that you pick up these games and everyone understands the maps, weapons and equipment in them, whatever their equivalents, perfectly? I don’t think you can. Bot training modes help with understanding how something works in a far less competitive set-up.

It’s funny that you mention those games, because Destiny is barely a competitive game and its focus is on PVE grinding, CS has bots, Ghost Recon is an open-world game, and Halo has bots with its new Bot Bootcamp mode. Titanfall does have a semi-bot mode in the form of Frontier Defense. Call of Duty also has bots and has had them since Black Ops 1. So, of the examples you gave, only Destiny (which isn’t a competitive game), Titanfall (which does sort of have bots) and Ghost Recon (I think you meant R6: Siege, bud, which does have Bots) lack bot modes.

Of the ones you listed, the biggest and largest game on the planet has bots in training modes. So what point are you attempting to make here? Seems like you didn’t think this through.

Neither of which presently exist, do go on.

So, the plan is to abandon the players who like PVE because you don’t like them? That’s very smart.

My guy, if someone doesn’t want to play LSS, they’re not going to play LSS in the absence of Bot Bootcamp. They’re either going to stop playing or move to Slayer.

Then it sounds like they need to fix the UI.

Which people aren’t playing anyway even with Bot Bootcamp there. There’s a reason that LSS and Land Grab were removed. Even if LSS or Land Grab were to stay, they’d still be floundering in terms of player numbers. The modes were not popular with the player base. Accept that, and move on.

Your request should shift from “I want to remove game modes others like!” to “Hey 343, can you improve the UI so we can have more playlists like Halo 2?” You’re not going after the root cause here.

Can be done in customs or the academy. No need to keep the bot bootcamp as a MM lobby.

So the game teaches you something through the process of playing the game and not by setting up bots that stand still and don’t fight back. Almost like the game is saying that the player is smart enough to figure things out without training wheels.

Not as part of MM. It’s purely customs. Same as other games with a bot feature.

First game, not. Tenth game, I have better handle for the weapons and map. 20th game I already know where the heavily trafficked areas and choke points are because I played the game in a realistic situation and not against bots who don’t fight back. Seriously, what is this make believe world you live in. People have not been having an issue figuring out MP games for the past 30, 40 years.

Don’t remember saying anything about competitive. And while you see it as a Pve Game, a tone of other people play it for the MP.

Exactly, in customs, not as part of the MP.

New ones sure. The older ones were first/third person shooters with popular MP for their time.
I’m guessing you’re in your teens because this comment shows your age.

Yeah and it unnecessarily takes up a slot that could be used for a PvP mode.
As a franchise, Halo has not needed bots to grow and set record numbers in sales and players.

This is like Fire Fight. Wave based survival. You know, an actual PvE mode.

Notice how the bot modes in those games are not a MP playlist, but a custom game set-up (and one was FF). every thing you stated shows why Bot Bootcamp does not need to take up a playlist slot. I think YOU did not think this through.

You brought up that big portion of people want to play a PvE mode with friends. I’m stating that none of those players are going to play Bootcamp against brain dead AI. If you’re confused, look at what you said about LSS.

Bootcamp isn’t a real PvE game mode. Quit trying to make this sound like a real PvE mode like a campaign, Firefight, spartan ops, Hoard mode, Frontier Defense etc. I would love PvE actual game modes where the AI fights back.

Never said it would have more players. Bot bootcamp being removed would mean that this playlist could have stayed active longer because a useless bot mode would not have been taking up one of the limited slots.

Bot Bootcamp is far less popular than those game modes.

Yeah no. You’ve spent a good deal of your replies saying that unpopular game modes should be removed. So don’t switch it up now because YOU and 10 other people like bootcamp. Plus those topics already exist, I don’t see a reason to make a repeat topic. This topic is made under the current limitations that 343i is working under.

Also, since day one, Bootcamp should have been a customs feature only. Like it is in other games. IDK where this pretend “taking it away” is coming from. It would still be there for the people who want to learn. The tab would just move from MP to customs. You could even adjust the difficulty and number of bots. Even set up instances in BTB maps, which you currently can’t play on with the bots.

Boot camp moving to customs would only make it better.

They goofed their own code for three major releases in a row? The lack of playlists(and content) in Halo games only started when 343 took over and it hasn’t changed since.

So, I think it’s safe to say there was no “goof” when it comes to their UI, which they supposedly created specifically for Infinite. Sounds more like they planned it this way from the beginning… which really only proves that 343 did not learn from their past mistakes and in fact, didn’t even attempt to learn from the previous mistake and instead went ahead and released another game with the exact same mistakes they told us they supposedly learned from… this is why people can’t believe anything 343 says…