Infinity ordnance, as it should have been

TL;DR at the bottom.

Since a lot of us think that Infinity Slayer is more decided upon random weapon drops than team skill and tactics, yes a good team will win over a bad team but with equal teams, I started looking at the maps in forge and the Infinity Game Options with the goal of making Infinity Slayer more balanced since I have ideas on how to do it.

I found most options I want to change available in both forge and game options but there were some small things that would require either i343’s help or the Engineer specialization, you can force Tactical Packages and Support Upgrades for players through traits but the specialization packages and upgrades weren’t available. Either they’ll never be available through the options or they’ll be unlocked later on. I’ll get back to this later.

> Personal Ordnance: We want to keep this but limit it to no power weapons. In the options we can change what weapons, AA’s and Boosts we get and what “weight” i.e propability they will have to be available. Now I was thinking of a couple of options for these drops.
>
> A: Limit the drops to grenades only, as in “Frag : Plasma : Pulse”
>
> B: Limit the drops to Grenades and loadout weapons, “Grenade/Loadout Weapon : Grenade/Loadout Weapon : Grenade/Loadout weapon”, it would include both primary and secondary loadout weapons.
>
> C: Limit the drops to grenades, loadout weapons and boosts. Much like it is now but with the removal of the power weapons.

With A and B I could also imagine that we could lower the required points to recieve personal ordnance drops so they’d be more frequent for ammo refills, switching of weapons if none is available and more grenades.

> Problem with Random Global Ordnance Drops: The current problem we have with these as they are, is that matches can become unbalanced, and teams can win because of luck throughout the match instead of pure skill. Some may argue that a skilled player thinks of ways to go around the one with a power weapon instead of shouting “unfair”, while it’s true that skilled players do think of ways to go around a player with a power weapon, it’s the way of getting said power weapon that is a problem, as well as the random nature in “symmetric” drops. Some teams may not get power weapons at all while the other does. Between two equally skilled teams, power weapons is a deciding factor of the outcome of the match, and randomly handing out said power weapons to players leaves a lot to chance and randomness, the outcome is partly based on a team’s luck, which it shouldn’t. Yes, a player may be lucky in an aspect that an opponent fumbles and does something wrong, that is still however player control, not a random factor inside the game.

How would we do to keep random in, because it is refreshing and something with a twist.

> First off I suggest that the random drops of power weapons are reduced, and some drops only have grenades and loadout weapons, especially those closer to bases in large maps.
>
> Second, for those of you who doesn’t know how the engineer specialization works, it announces what will drop and where a while before it is dropped. That is how I imagined the random drop mechanic would have worked in the first place. Long before a drop, the game would put an icon over the drop point what will drop.
> I suggest that this is how it should work for players even without the engineer specialisation, atleast for power weapons. It’d also be shown globally for all players, not just those within that 100m radius of the drop, and not faint either, as it now faints out the longer you are from it. What about players who use the engineer specialisation then? Well the icon would of course appear earlier for them. For example, the icon would appear thirty seconds before a drop for regular player, it could appear 40 seconds before the drop for those using the engineer specializatin, or something like that. To prevent clutter, grenades and loadout weapons would only show inside a radius. Power weapon drops would be visible on the whole map, the drops would be random in both when they drop and what drops.
>
> An alternative for Engineer specialization users would be to put a spawn countdown timer over the icon instead of showing the drop icon seconds before it’s shown for the others. They’d know the exact moment it spawns.

This would be “Newfinity Slayer”.

Before someone comes shouting that I’m trying to force my way of playing down others’ throats, that the way it is now is how it’s meant to be played and it works perfectly fine, I’m going to leave that debate to you and someone else who’s in the mood of talking with you and say that 343 easily could make a playlist for “Newfinity Slayer” as well as keeping the old vanilla “Infinity Slayer”.

Pros/Cons? Improvements? Suggestions?

TL;DR

> Personal Ordnance: Remove Power Weapons alltogether, use grenades and/or loadout weapons and/or possibly boosts.

> Global Random Drops: Before a weapon is dropped, 20 to 30 seconds before the drop, an icon lights up where it’ll drop and what will drop for everyone on the map. What kind of weapon that drops is random, timer when it drops is also random, location is also random based among the preset drop locations.

> Engineer upgrade: would either see the icon before it appears for everyone else or get a countdown timer so the player would know the exact moment of the drop.

green? really?

Purple and green

They’re my favourite colors, and green was a better on the eyes than purple, or “Indigo” in this case.

So I’ll use it.

Other than just commenting on the color, thoughts on the subject at hand?

> green? really?

I wish people doing this would make their text actually readable.

Some of Us, like me for instance enjoy Vanilla Infinity Slayer as it is. If they were to do this it would have to be a whole separate playlist…and then it would be fractured even more when they come out with a truly competitive playlist. BUT with what your saying with the ordinance drops being grenade based for the most part you would have to remove grenade spawns on every map, tweak the resupply mod ect. so everygame doesn’t turn into any more a grenade spam fest.

Why do all these people that know nothing about game development think anyone should cares about their stupid ideas?

The game is close to perfect the way it is.

> > green? really?
>
> I wish people doing this would make their text actually readable.

Tell me what’s wrong and I’ll fix it.

> Some of Us, like me for instance enjoy Vanilla Infinity Slayer as it is. If they were to do this it would have to be a whole separate playlist…and then it would be fractured even more when they come out with a truly competitive playlist. BUT with what your saying with the ordinance drops being grenade based for the most part you would have to remove grenade spawns on every map, tweak the resupply mod ect. so everygame doesn’t turn into any more a grenade spam fest.

I also said that it could be a whole separate playlist.

If we’d go with more grenades then yes, grenades on maps should be removed or increased drop timers. There’s also option C for less grenades and more ammo or boosts.

> Why do all these people that know nothing about game development think anyone should cares about their stupid ideas?
>
> The game is close to perfect the way it is.

What does game development have to do with rebalancing a game mode? Do you know anything about game development perhaps?

Please share your views on how the game is oh so close to perfect.

No. Taking heavy weapons out of personal ordnance is just an awful idea.

> No. Taking heavy weapons out of personal ordnance is just an awful idea.

In what way is it an awful idea?

Am I the only one who thinks this proposal is logical. I may not agree with everything, (I’ll get on that later) But this concept is what Halo 4 needs to stop being “luckiest team wins”

> Am I the only one who thinks this proposal is logical. I may not agree with everything, (I’ll get on that later) But this concept is what Halo 4 needs to stop being “luckiest team wins”

Thank you

Good, I’d love to see what you don’t agree on, and read your own thoughts.

Whenever you get to it.

As far as I can tell, heavy weapons are usually meant to give teams a chance to change the tides of the game. No matter how unfair the better team sees it, the point is to give the losing team a fighting chance. You have to put into consideration the variable factors even when in a balanced matchmaking. If you were to give both sides an equal equipment, the better skilled wins by nature. But giving people heavy weapons in personal ordnance can either guarantee them a victory, or change the tides if they were losing. It’s luck, yes, but it’s also a twist that could potentially add on to the competitive side of gameplay. Though, I’d say many disagree.

I love the concept of only power weapons being visible to everyone before they drop. I think it’s important because teams would struggle to control an area before the weapon drops. This would introduce many strategies into a match that would have to be executed on the fly.

30 seconds might be a little too long though, I’d say 20. So the players can stay focused on other objectives (securing vantage points, choke points ect)

However I really think personal ordinance should still have power weapons, but it should take more to earn them, a lot more. That way a team still has a chance if they couldn’t secure the drops.

> As far as I can tell, heavy weapons are usually meant to give teams a chance to change the tides of the game. No matter how unfair the better team sees it, the point is to give the losing team a fighting chance. You have to put into consideration the variable factors even when in a balanced matchmaking. If you were to give both sides an equal equipment, the better skilled wins by nature. But giving people heavy weapons in personal ordnance can either guarantee them a victory, or change the tides if they were losing. It’s luck, yes, but it’s also a twist that could potentially add on to the competitive side of gameplay. Though, I’d say many disagree.

Power weapons are meant to be an advantage and edge yes, but giving them to teams as “more chances” is just something I don’t understand. You don’t enlarge the goal of the winning team in ice hockey or football (soccer) so that the losing team has a better chance. Both teams should have an equal chance of winning, they should work hard and play well themselves and not have the game hand them second chances. If a team screws up a start then they should work hard to get back into the game, not have the game go “Oh, I see you missed the start, here, have a power weapon” and give the team a pat on the back. What’s the point in working hard and getting a good foothold if the game will just give you means of doing so? I don’t think I know of any game that gives players “second chances”, or fighting chances. If you manage to screw up, get back and win, then that’s mighty good of you, if you screw up and doesn’t then that’s too bad for you, you should do better next time.

Introducing luck into competition isn’t a good idea either, they don’t mix. Two equally good teams fighting in a game where there is no luck involved will result in the better team winning, fair and square. If you introduce randomness into it, a part of the outcome will be which team is the luckiest. Even a marginally worse team can win over another better team, a little better mind you, because they get lucky.

It’s a bad analogy but simply put, it’s a kind of a coin toss, sure, you can compete in coin tossing, but you can’t say who’s better at saying what the outcome will be because it’s more or less random.

If there’s a huge skill gap between two teams then yes the better team will win, but we are talking about closely skilled teams against each other, on all levels, not just über pro levels. The smaller the skill gap is, if there are random elements in the game then luck will take a larger and larger part of the outcome of the match.

Yes, there are equal chances of everyone getting a certain weapon, it is fair in that sense, but competition is about control, and leaving things to chance isn’t control. The less players can control the less depth there is in the game.

> I love the concept of only power weapons being visible to everyone before they drop. I think it’s important because teams would struggle to control an area before the weapon drops. This would introduce many strategies into a match that would have to be executed on the fly.
>
> 30 seconds might be a little too long though, I’d say 20. So the players can stay focused on other objectives (securing vantage points, choke points ect)
>
> However I really think personal ordinance should still have power weapons, but it should take more to earn them, a lot more. That way a team still has a chance if they couldn’t secure the drops.

How long the timer will be is up for debate, and may require testing to get it right.

However, power weapons in personal ordnance is something I won’t budge on.

The reason why I suggest timers and icons is so that teams actually have to fight for them, and not contemplate wether or not they should get that power weapon since they’ll get another in a while.

There should be no second chances, the only chance should be when the power weapon spawns, if they neglect that chance, either through ignorance or failing to get it, then they shouldn’t be rewarded with a second prize. It’s a slap in the face on the other team’s hard work and team play.

“Hey, you got that power weapon, but since the other team didn’t I’m going to give them one too so they have a chance because they blew it the first time.”

Why bother working hard and outplaying the opponent to get a power weapon, if you can still get one just like that? Why bother fighting over an advantage if it’s not going to matter since the opponents will get one either way?

It could also backfire, the team getting the Global Drops would most likely get the Personal Drops first and secure an even bigger lead. How many chances should the losing team get then to get back on top?

Both teams should get one chance each time and try their hardest to do it right. When the next time comes up, the one team that lost the first chance just have to fight harder to gain the advantage, not be given a second chance just because they played poorly the first time.

You don’t see enlarged goals on the winning team’s side in ice hockey or football(soccer) just to give the other team a chance to catch up. The losing team just have to work harder to catch up.

The reason I say power weapons should still be in personal ordinance is because of the rapid despawning of dropped weapons, you get a sniper rifle get 3 kills then get out-sniped, your rifle vanishes before your teammates can pick it up. (Making location/death callouts pointless)

> The reason I say power weapons should still be in personal ordinance is because of the rapid despawning of dropped weapons, you get a sniper rifle get 3 kills then get out-sniped, your rifle vanishes before your teammates can pick it up. (Making location/death callouts pointless)

I read somewhere that the JiP is the reason of the short despawn times. However it could be wrong. I could imagine that the short despawn times is because of the Personal Drops, to prevent way to many power weapons.

The fix there is to increase the despawn time.

When I went to bed last night, I imagined what competitive doubles would look like in halo 4.

I was imaging those really tight games of crouching walking and generally trying to leave no trace of your current location. And then it hit me. The weapon waypoints on the HUD ruin this. You see one disappear, and you know exactly where the enemy is. Its -Yoink-!

This is why I stopped playing multiplayer all together. All I do now is Spartan Ops,campaign,forge,etc. This and other problems (incompetent teammates, one gun games (DMR…), etc) have pushed me away from matchmaking.

I’ve been working on this idea actually in forge mode. Have a map made on Haven that so far people like. You actually have to work for map control now and the spawns are way better. Ordinance drops are usually grenades or loadouts weapons with the occasional power-up. Everybody who has played it so far like it. Also made AA pick-ups as well which has been working out quiet well. (Before anyone says I haven’t played the game this is a temporary account because my primary can’t login for some reason.)

Option D - We take out rockets, snipe and those kinds of power weapons, but we leave in the needler, nade launcher, concussion rifle, those sorts of weapons.

> When I went to bed last night, I imagined what competitive doubles would look like in halo 4.
>
> I was imaging those really tight games of crouching walking and generally trying to leave no trace of your current location. And then it hit me. The weapon waypoints on the HUD ruin this. You see one disappear, and you know exactly where the enemy is. Its Yoink!!

I haven’t played Doubles that much, perhaps 10 matches in total overall in both Halo 3 and Reach, so I don’t know how to play those. I always assumed that it played like normal stuff, with less players.

Isn’t power weapons important in Doubles as well? Wouldn’t you be able to utilise the icons? Like, sneaking and waiting for people to go there and take them out when they think the coast is clear. That is if Infinity Slayer would be used in doubles.

> This is why I stopped playing multiplayer all together. All I do now is Spartan Ops,campaign,forge,etc. This and other problems (incompetent teammates, one gun games (DMR…), etc) have pushed me away from matchmaking.
>
> I’ve been working on this idea actually in forge mode. Have a map made on Haven that so far people like. You actually have to work for map control now and the spawns are way better. Ordinance drops are usually grenades or loadouts weapons with the occasional power-up. Everybody who has played it so far like it. Also made AA pick-ups as well which has been working out quiet well. (Before anyone says I haven’t played the game this is a temporary account because my primary can’t login for some reason.)

Does power weapons come through the Global Drop or through Personal or have you skipped them entirely?

It would be interesting to see AA’s as a pickup, could be plenty of them, so that everyone gets one, and more powerfull ones could be regarded as power weapons. Such as camo, regen and the shield, perhaps jetpack as well.

Anyhow, did you do any tweaks to the personal ordnance options or did you just change the map?

> Option D - We take out rockets, snipe and those kinds of power weapons, but we leave in the needler, nade launcher, concussion rifle, those sorts of weapons.

Would we deem them balanced enough to have in personal ordnance? Thoughts anyone?

Weapons left in the Personal Drop would then be

-BR
-DMR
-AR
-Shotgun
-Sticky Detonator
-Magnum

-Storm Rifle
-Carbine
-Concussion Rifle
-Needler
-Plasma Pistol
-Sword
-Hammer

-Boltshot
-Scattershot
-Lightrifle

Or would we have only the non-loadout weapons, aka, Ordnance weapons? Would it be dependant on map or game mode which weapon is left in the Personal Drop?