Infinity is the most competitive

Infinity settings are by far the most competitive halo settings to date.

There are a multitude of reasons for this and ill get into that now.

first of all loadouts; loadouts as they are now require so much thought and planning for teams to be successful with. Teams must carefully consider each team member’s gear and all craft loadouts that work well together, with the map, and just for that player. this last point is important. loadouts let players play how they want to, how they are comfortable, in a fair and balanced way. The inflexibility in this area of past halo games is astonishing. For example my favorite gun is the storm rifle and that’s what I play with when I’m being competitive, but in past halos I wasn’t allowed to use the plasma rifle because the battle rifle which I don’t care for is forced on you. Now you can be much more competitive playing a style that works for you.

personal ordnance adds lots of competitiveness. teams must communicate very well and share packages with each other. if I get a sniper in my package and I know one guy on my team is an excellent sniper ill call out to him and meet up with him to give him the sniper. The idea is you want every player to have a good weapon and need to share the wealth if you already have one and get one in a package. Requires lots of good teamwork and communication. Also teams are encouraged to get kills and assists with personal ordnance which of course is highly competitive as they play much harder. Lastly ordnance keeps the game fresh and exciting.

unpredictable global ordnance is perhaps the most competitive thing infinity settings brought to the table in a long list of competitive things brought to the table. Every single player must constantly be on high alert ready to react fast to get over and secure an unpredictable ordnance when it drops. It requires very fast reaction times and paying constant attention to your surroundings. Much more competitive than the old fashion knowing exactly when and where a package will fall.

well that’s about it. I applaud 343 for their great work in making a much more in depth and competitive halo.

I disagree.

Loadouts would be competitive if for say PV and AC werent a choice.

PO makes for to random of games and makes it to were map control doesnt exist unless the other team seriously doesnt know what to do.

I think you got competitive confused with random.

Remove PO and further tweak PL.

> Infinity settings are by far the most competitive halo settings to date.

Every thread you make goes intentionally against popular sentiment. By this point I’m convinced you must be a troll.

But since I don’t piss off the mods, actual discussion below.

> First of all loadouts; loadouts as they are now require so much thought and planning for teams to be successful with.

Examples? Knowing what weapon class is best on what map isn’t too difficult.

> Loadouts let players play how they want to, how they are comfortable, in a fair and balanced way.

Variety and Competitiveness are two entirely different subjects.

> In past halos I wasn’t allowed to use the plasma rifle because the battle rifle which I don’t care for is forced on you. Now you can be much more competitive playing a style that works for you.

Spawning with an automatic crutch isn’t competitive. You were forced to use a BR because it was deemed an actually skillful weapon, unlike the spammy plasma rifle.

Playing a style that works for you again is an entirely different discussion to competitiveness.

> if I get a sniper in my package and I know one guy on my team is an excellent sniper ill call out to him and meet up with him to give him the sniper.

Or, you can secure the sniper on the map, and let your teammate take it.
Same thing, except not random.

> Lastly ordnance keeps the game fresh and exciting.

So does grabbing a Rocket or powerup. But in a much more balanced fashion.

> Every single player must constantly be on high alert ready to react fast to get over and secure an unpredictable ordnance when it drops. It requires very fast reaction times and paying constant attention to your surroundings.

No, the timers are so random that the only guaranteed way to get a weapon is to camp the spot and wait for it.

Nope. As Bucknutt said, Infinity settings make for an extremely random game. To be competitive, everyone NEEDS to start out equally: same weapons, same grenades, same EVERYTHING. And absolutely NO personal ordinance. Power weapons should be map pick up only and be set to be specific weapons. That way teams have an equal chance to fight for control of both power weapons and the map using only their skill. That is the whole point of competitiveness in Halo.

Also Ramir3z77, I (as well as many other long time Halo players) completely agree with your responses.

@ Ramirez

I’m NOT a yoinking troll! every single thing that I post on these forums is 100% from the heart how I feel and what I want.

>

You know, you could’ve responded to his points in an intellectual manner, explaining why you think Infinity settings are more competitive despite his reasoning for how they are not.

The other reasonable option would’ve been to concede your argument and accept that his is, if not completely right, better constructed from reasoning than your own.

What you’ve done doesn’t help anyone, if anything it makes you come off as more of a troll than a person that has very unorthodox views on matters.

> I’m NOT a yoinking troll! every single thing that I post on these forums is 100% from the heart how I feel and what I want.

Yes but Sammy you have to understand thats what YOU want. Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion, its just that the majority of long time Halo players don’t agree with yours. You never played Halo 2 or 3 when they were in their prime, when Halo was the dominant online multiplayer game. Because of how it was done, it was balanced and fair, with the only thing separating good players from the bad was skill and teamwork. It was benchmark console FPS game other FPS games had to be good enough to compete with.

You started playing Halo with Halo Reach, when the game started to decline. The game that started the randomness and the game Bungie didn’t even want to make, but were still contractually obligated to do so. Personally I believe Bungie used Reach as a testing ground, to try out new ideas ready for their future games (i.e Destiny which showed a few similarities to Reach at its reveal). And now we have Halo 4, the Halo game with the fastest population decline since it began in 2001, where randomness outweighs competitiveness. Enough said really.

> Infinity settings are by far the most competitive halo settings to date.
>
> There are a multitude of reasons for this and ill get into that now.
>
> first of all loadouts; loadouts as they are now require so much thought and planning for teams to be successful with. Teams must carefully consider each team member’s gear and all craft loadouts that work well together, with the map, and just for that player. this last point is important. loadouts let players play how they want to, how they are comfortable, in a fair and balanced way. The inflexibility in this area of past halo games is astonishing. For example my favorite gun is the storm rifle and that’s what I play with when I’m being competitive, but in past halos I wasn’t allowed to use the plasma rifle because the battle rifle which I don’t care for is forced on you. Now you can be much more competitive playing a style that works for you.
>
> personal ordnance adds lots of competitiveness. teams must communicate very well and share packages with each other. if I get a sniper in my package and I know one guy on my team is an excellent sniper ill call out to him and meet up with him to give him the sniper. The idea is you want every player to have a good weapon and need to share the wealth if you already have one and get one in a package. Requires lots of good teamwork and communication. Also teams are encouraged to get kills and assists with personal ordnance which of course is highly competitive as they play much harder. Lastly ordnance keeps the game fresh and exciting.
>
> unpredictable global ordnance is perhaps the most competitive thing infinity settings brought to the table in a long list of competitive things brought to the table. Every single player must constantly be on high alert ready to react fast to get over and secure an unpredictable ordnance when it drops. It requires very fast reaction times and paying constant attention to your surroundings. Much more competitive than the old fashion knowing exactly when and where a package will fall.
>
> well that’s about it. I applaud 343 for their great work in making a much more in depth and competitive halo.

It’s probably a troll, but I’ll bite.

Imagine if there was a tournament with infinity settings. First off, every loadout would be nearly the same. Every pro I have ever watched uses BR, boltshot and thruster pack. While the storm rifle is a good weapon, it is purely situational. You can’t go pro using the storm rifle as your primary.

As for personal ordnance’s you wouldn’t have time to waste to give your teammate a sniper. While you two are trying to meet up, your other 2 teammates are fighting a 2v4 battle.

Imagine if money was on the line in a 48-48 slayer game. One side gets a sniper in their ordnance, the other team gets a needler. Ordnance is random and unfair, a game shouldn’t be decided by who gets better weapons in their ordnance. Global ordnance is bad for the same reason.

> @ Ramirez
>
>
> I’m NOT a yoinking troll! every single thing that I post on these forums is 100% from the heart how I feel and what I want.

Its not your views that make it seem that way, its your presentation. You’re entitled to your opinions on what Halo should be, but when you talk about what was wrong with older Halos like 2 &3, and you actually didn’t even start playing until Reach, you lose credibility.

> >
>
> You know, you could’ve responded to his points in an intellectual manner, explaining why you think Infinity settings are more competitive despite his reasoning for how they are not.
>
> The other reasonable option would’ve been to concede your argument and accept that his is, if not completely right, better constructed from reasoning than your own.
>
> What you’ve done doesn’t help anyone, if anything it makes you come off as more of a troll than a person that has very unorthodox views on matters.

I thought I already did explain myself in the opening post, but ok lets see here…

“Examples? Knowing what weapon class is best on what map isn’t too difficult.”

Oh but its far more than knowing what gun to use on a certain map. I’m talking about having almost every aspect of loadouts carefully considered and utilized competitively within the team. For example a player with ammo tactically equipped being the one who picks up ordnance packages for his team then drops them for his allies. A person with regeneration field constantly supporting and aiding his team. A person with drop recon calling out incoming ordnance to his team. Just “whats the best weapon for the map” is less than 1% of what I’m considering and what competitive teams consider.

“Variety and Competitiveness are two entirely different subjects.”

Competitiveness NEEDS variety. what if a player is far more comfortable with the carbine than the battle rifle? well not letting him use the carbine and forcing on the BR is making the game not as competitive as it could have been. Players need to be allowed to tweak and maximize their play style with a loadout. Makes the game more competitive. Not every player has this BR/grenade heavy explosives resupply play style.

"Spawning with an automatic crutch isn’t competitive. You were forced to use a BR because it was deemed an actually skillful weapon, unlike the spammy plasma rifle.

Playing a style that works for you again is an entirely different discussion to competitiveness"

I would have you know that automatics ARE INDEED skillful weapons. This is coming from a guy that uses them almost exclusively. here read this thread I made if you care to. https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst227799_All-about-automatics.aspx

“Or, you can secure the sniper on the map, and let your teammate take it.
Same thing, except not random.”

I don’t know what you mean by “random” I specifically let my teammate know that I have a sniper for him and we meet up via good communication. How is this not a good play?

“So does grabbing a Rocket or powerup. But in a much more balanced fashion.”

How is grabbing a rocket or a powerup that predictably drops down anything but boring and dull?

“No, the timers are so random that the only guaranteed way to get a weapon is to camp the spot and wait for it.”

you have got to be kidding me with this one. You would be a FOOL to try and camp an unpredictable ordnance as there is a strong chance you would be doing nothing for awhile. What you do need to do is be playing your best while the whole while keeping a constant hawk eye out for an unpredictable ordnance. Its these new static spawns that promote camping; gosh I cant tell you how many times I just stroll on over every three min. camp for a bit and “HEY THANKS FOR THE POWER WEAPON” come to think of it I don’t know why I’m complaining.

Nope, still convinced your a troll. We all have unique opinions, but the fact yours are 100% against anything anyone else thinks strikes me as odd to say the least.

> Just “whats the best weapon for the map” is less than 1% of what I’m considering and what competitive teams consider.

Ammo is abusing a broken feature, I wouldn’t be surprised.

Other than that, generally a best option or set of best options will be used, while everything else will be left in the dust.

> Competitiveness NEEDS variety.

No, it does not.

Let’s assume the sniper rifle is the only weapon in the game. While this would be bland, it would still be skillful and balanced gameplay.

Variety is of course necessary for a quality game, but it and competitiveness are two completely separate topics.

> Not every player has this BR/grenade heavy explosives resupply play style.

This shouldn’t be the only playstyle in the game. But it’s also pretty much the only skillful playstyle in the game, currently.

Halo needs massive overhauls.

> I would have you know that automatics ARE INDEED skillful weapons.

No, they are not. At least not compared to other games.
-No Recoil
-Bloom is pointless as they are still inferior at medium range even with burst fire.
-No headshot capability.

Their only use (i.e they only thing they are even remotely good at) is to spray enemies at close range. Not skillful.

> I don’t know what you mean by “random” I specifically let my teammate know that I have blah blah

The sniper rifle was a dice roll to begin with. Where a sniper rifle on the map is always a sniper rifle, that ordnance could’ve easily been a needler instead.

> How is grabbing a rocket or a powerup that predictably drops down anything but boring and dull?

Why is randomness necessary for a mechanic to be ‘fun’?

Killing people with a rocket launcher is fun, regardless of how I obtained the rockets.

> You would be a FOOL to try and camp an unpredictable ordnance as there is a strong chance you would be doing nothing for awhile.

News flash, it’s your only option. That’s why global ordnance is bad.

A sniper rifle spawns every 90 seconds. I can walk away from it, knowing it will respawn when I come back 90 seconds later.

Now we have a sniper rifle that spawns every 90-180 seconds. If I walk away from it, it’s not guaranteed to be there when I return.

> What you do need to do is be playing your best while the whole while keeping a constant hawk eye out for an unpredictable ordnance. Its these new static spawns that promote camping; gosh I cant tell you how many times I just stroll on over every three min. camp for a bit and “HEY THANKS FOR THE POWER WEAPON” come to think of it I don’t know why I’m complaining.

Only to see a distant smoke trail in the sky in the area where you’ve spawn trapped your opponents with your warthog and then get blasted into molecules by the random unpredictable laser that droped for them.

The whole point of static spawns is that players are supposed to fight over the weapons that spawn. If you just happen to stroll there every three minutes and manage to get it without competition, it means that you’re not playing against good players, at all.

How come you aren’t promoting the use of fiesta for competitive game modes? It has far more variation than Infinity, you need to be able to use the weapon you spawn with to it’s fullest potential to be succesful. I mean, if Infinity is competitive, it’s nothing against Fiesta Classic’s competitiveness.

First of all, let’s make sure that we all agree on the definition of the word in question.

Compete: to strive to outdo another.
Competition: the act of competing; rivalry for supremacy.

Competition is, according to the dictionary, the act of striving to outdo another. Therefore, in order for rules to be considered competitive, a player must be able to beat the other through supremacy and superiority alone. In order to prove your thesis that Infinity settings are more competitive than the traditional settings, you must prove that skill and superiority is more important and more of a determining factor in Infinity settings than in traditional settings.

> first of all loadouts; loadouts as they are now require so much thought and planning for teams to be successful with. Teams must carefully consider each team member’s gear and all craft loadouts that work well together, with the map, and just for that player.

Choosing weapons and equipment appropriate for the map and gametype and perks appropriate for my weapons, equipment, and playstyle isn’t difficult at all. Of course I’m not going to use a Jet Pack on Ragnarok, and of course I’m not going to use a Light Rifle on Skyline. Of course I’m not going to use Wheelman on Adrift and of course I’m not going to use Nemesis… well, ever.

Moreover, when all players on a team “specialize,” they are forced to play that role even if it is unnecessary at the current point in the game and are unable to fill in for a teammate’s role. If a player fails in his specialization or his specialization is unnecessary, the time your team spends readjusting your strategies and loadouts is time the other team spends gaining map control, regrouping, or just picking you off.

Because of the way Halo 4 is built, even in Infinity settings, specializing works against the team more than it works for it. Halo’s gameplay rewards coordination of positions, map control, and team-shooting (2 or more players shooting the same enemy), all of which can be done whether all team members have identical loadouts or unique loadouts. Coordinated loadouts are unnecessary and meaningless in Halo regardless of what settings you play.

> loadouts let players play how they want to, how they are comfortable, in a fair and balanced way. The inflexibility in this area of past halo games is astonishing.

Same starts make sure that everyone is being judged on common skills. Perhaps an BR player consistently defeats an AR player; who was the more skilled? You might say that the BR player was more skilled because he consistently won the engagements. But what if the BR doesn’t require as much skill to kill as the AR does? Is he still more skilled? Well, now it’s impossible to tell; we are comparing apples to oranges. Even the answer to which weapon is more skillful differs depending on who you talk to.

If you give everyone BRs, yes, players have less flexibility in which weapons they use. However, because everyone is judged according to their ability to use the same weapon, deciding who is more skillful is no longer as imprecise; we are comparing apples to apples. Because you can tell with absolute certainty who is superior, same weapon starts are more competitive.

> personal ordnance adds lots of competitiveness.

Because it is random, Ordnance is by definition noncompetitive. You can’t outdo another in getting a good or map-appropriate weapon any more than you can outdo another in a coin toss.

> if I get a sniper in my package and I know one guy on my team is an excellent sniper ill call out to him and meet up with him to give him the sniper. The idea is you want every player to have a good weapon and need to share the wealth if you already have one and get one in a package. Requires lots of good teamwork and communication.

Also requires you and said teammate to take a 10-15 second break from the game while you both find each other, share, and then get back into positions.

Or

The player who’s good at sniping can just go to the Sniper Rifle spawn as soon as it spawns on its predictable timer. It is much more convenient, doesn’t interrupt the flow of the game, and isn’t random (and, by extension of the definition, noncompetitive).

> Also teams are encouraged to get kills and assists with personal ordnance which of course is highly competitive as they play much harder.

Why in the world do people need more incentives to shoot other players? Halo is a shooting game. Killing other players is the entire point.

> Lastly ordnance keeps the game fresh and exciting.

Because we’re talking about Infinity settings in the context of competition, I don’t think that’s relevant.

> unpredictable global ordnance is perhaps the most competitive thing infinity settings brought to the table in a long list of competitive things brought to the table. Every single player must constantly be on high alert ready to react fast to get over and secure an unpredictable ordnance when it drops. It requires very fast reaction times and paying constant attention to your surroundings.

No, it doesn’t. Regardless of how much faster than my opponent I reacted to the Random Ordnance, my skill and superiority in such is meaningless if the drop was on their side of the map. Though reaction to drops is important in RODs, much more important is the location of the drop, which is completely out of the players’ control. If the drop was always equidistant from both teams, than I would agree that the superior player, the one with the quickest reaction time, best movement control, and best knowledge of the map would emerge with the power weapon. Unfortunately, more often than not, who gets the drop may or may not have been the quickest, smartest, or most superior; he was simply and incidentally in the right place at the right time.

Because RODs can be (and usually are) given to players without a competition for superiority, they are noncompetitive.

In closing, based on your OP and subsequent posts, you really didn’t talk about Infinity’s competitiveness at all. More often, you talked about how Infinity provided “variety” and traditional settings are “boring.” You did not explain how Infinity settings are better for finding the players with the most raw skill, which was essentially your thesis.

> Oh but its far more than knowing what gun to use on a certain map. I’m talking about having almost every aspect of loadouts carefully considered and utilized competitively within the team. For example a player with ammo tactically equipped being the one who picks up ordnance packages for his team then drops them for his allies. A person with regeneration field constantly supporting and aiding his team. A person with drop recon calling out incoming ordnance to his team. Just “whats the best weapon for the map” is <mark>less than 1%</mark> of what I’m considering and what competitive teams consider.

“less than 1%” Do you have evidence or some sort of visual aid to accompany this statement? This seems like some sort of false thought-up percentage to make your point seem greater than it really is. What league or competitive teams are there that play solely Infinity Slayer? Surely they can’t be professional since Halo has no competitive scene left. This isn’t even getting into the unpredictable nature of custom loadouts making “preparations” for scenarios pointless, as they are unpredictable.

> Competitiveness NEEDS variety. what if a player is far more comfortable with the carbine than the battle rifle? <mark>well not letting him use the carbine and forcing on the BR is making the game not as competitive as it could have been.</mark> Players need to be allowed to tweak and maximize their play style with a loadout. Makes the game more competitive. Not every player has this BR/grenade heavy explosives resupply play style.

Why does competitiveness need variety? <mark>Wat? Where is the logic in that statement, how did you possibly come to that conclusion?</mark>
At this point I’m sure that word does not mean what you think it means.

> I would have you know that automatics ARE INDEED skillful weapons. This is coming from a guy that uses them almost exclusively. here read this thread I made if you care to. https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst227799_All-about-automatics.aspx

They are only useful for close range, where your targets are significantly larger, let me emphasize, SIGNIFICANTLY LARGER. When your targets are larger it is much harder to miss, partially hence the stigma against them in regards to skill.

> I don’t know what you mean by “random” I specifically let my teammate know that I have a sniper for him and we meet up via good communication. How is this not a good play?

PO and on-map Random Ordnance is random. You don’t know where it spawns, when it spawns, or what it is; all random & unpredictable factors, which are widely shunned in competitive Halo.

> How is grabbing a rocket or a powerup that predictably drops down anything but boring and dull?

Are you guys talking about “balanced” or “boring and dull”, I believe it was the former.

And at this point I see that he has already responded. Well, I’ll post this anyway.

I can’t believe you actually made this thread sammy. You knew you would get flack for this and yet you did it any way. It seems like every thread you make is specifically designed to start an argument. I am now fully convinced you are a troll, hell you might even be on the level of Mr.E0S from the bungie forums.

Also your op and every post that followed only seemed to address “variety and randomness” and had almost nothing to do with determining what skilled based gameplay was. For instance take a look at chess, equal starts, predictable, and the only real thing that determines the game is the players skills. How horrible would it be if one player was able to get three queens for no particular reason at all? Would it make the game more exciting if a player was able to receive random pieces at random times? Maybe, but random and excitement=/= skill.

No, they are not. End of.

A game as random and unpredictable as Infinity cannot be competitive. Fact. Every sport, game, meet, etc. has one crucial feature in common: equal starts.

Probably the biggest reason why this is true is because not everyone starts on equal footing. Unless you have reached SR 130 and thus completed all specializations, in addition to receiving the three new perks released this summer, you do not have all the possible spawning equipment. This of course is related directly to the possible number of custom loadouts you can make; you will not have the same options as someone who does have all the weapons, perks, and armor abilities. And since the majority of Halo 4’s playlists revolve around custom loadouts, this is very bad for balanced, competitive gameplay. A balanced sandbox is meaningless when equal footing is absent.

Then there’s the obvious issue of the loadout system itself restricting competitive gameplay severely. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: good players don’t change what they spawn with for each situation; they change their movement and positioning. From MLG level matches to relaxed casual matches, this was true for literally every FPS Halo up until and including Reach. No one complained about it because it worked. The arena settings provided for dynamic gameplay, high team coordination, and an overall fun experience. Custom loadouts, not so much game loadouts, take all of this and replace it with repetitive, predictable matches. If you take a look at COD, a game that has revolved around custom classes for years, every match is basically the same deal.

This leads me to my final counter: ordnance. I’ll start with initial ordnance. IO is not that bad, considering it requires a set respawn time for a weapon. It’s personal/random ordnance, the ones you talked about in your OP, that are bad for Halo. To tell you the truth, I don’t see much of a problem with PO if you actually get the same choices as everyone else does at a kill threshold. It is outright stupid that I on my third ordnance, the best I get is a needler, while an enemy player can get a binary rifle at their feet.

And that’s not even completely random. RO is arguably the worst change to weapon spawning in Halo. It is, in every sense of the phrase, as non-competitive as you can get. Why should I concern myself with one weapon on a map if I can’t even time its spawn? Don’t you think I would be more concerned about the entire objective of the game? And let’s not even talk about how bad it is when I am on the verge of winning in a close game and am outright -Yoinking!- denied a win because the enemy team has an IC randomly spawn at their base.

> Competitiveness NEEDS variety.

Debatable, but these cancerous Infinity settings do not add variety. Halo was already a dynamic game filled with variety, even with everyone getting the same starts; custom loadouts and literally completely random ordnance is unnecessary for variety.

343 forced all these unwanted and unneeded changes into a once great series and look what happened.

OP, if you’re going to make threads about the “new Halo”, please go about it with your proposed changes; at least then the ideas are creative. This sounds like you’re going out of your way to deny the criticisms of Halo 4 and praise the changes.

Just because sammy goes against the forums norm doesn’t mean he is a troll. Please refrain from name calling. Now i get what sammy means. Hes talking of being able to take anything at any time and over come it. I too feel that is skillful. However i don’t agree on random global ord. Sammy these people prefer reactive skill over situational skill. Simply put reactive=predictable situational=random. Halo till reach had mostly reactive skill. Reach and 4 have both types of skill.

Wether one is more competitive then the other entirely depends on preference and perspective. Either way no one is wrong here

In all fairness, Reach wasn’t the only reason for decline, around that time more and more FPS games were popping up and this is when COD starting taking the throne. Reach and 4 are at blame for some of this, yes, but not all of it.

Hopefully 5 and 6 will deliver.