Infinite team still not listening, and Ske7ch343's response is evidence of that

Ske7ch343’s latest statement has only proved they are not listening, nor are they going to listen to the criticisms players have with Infinite. I am in no way condoning nor supporting the vitriol, threats and doxxing that has been occurring and that needs to stop immediately. I am talking the valid criticism the company has received for the terrible decisions they have made and forced upon their consumer base.

In his first paragraph, he attempts to ‘be on our side’ as he says he agrees with some of the criticism they’ve received. He doesn’t go into any detail as to what that criticism is, and from previous posts, his only concern has been the progression of the battlepass (quite frankly the least of everyone’s concerns right now). He also attempts to make himself out to be the martyr for the company. His job is to, “come in here and take it on the chin”. No, your job is to listen to the community and make it absolutely crystal clear to the programmers, developers, project managers, and the like as to what the community is saying, and then in turn communicate their response back to the community. We have yet to hear how they are going to fix things (beyond the progression). The player base is not stupid, we understand larger fixes take longer time, but we aren’t hearing what those larger fixes are.

Second paragraph he attempts to address they are talking about the slayer problem. Great! love to hear discussion, now what is involved in that discussion? What is your team deciding?

Biggest first mistake he makes. Feeling they don’t, “Owe” us an explanation of what they are doing or what they’ve done for the last 6 years. Sorry, but yes you do. You heard since last year how the playerbase wasn’t happy with certain features, and you released them anyway. You promised certain things to us that turned out to be bold-faced lies. You absolutely owe your consumers an explanation, and then since you broke our trust, you owe us future explanations of what you are doing and how you are doing it. We may not be the back-end investors of your company or projects, but we are the front-end investors you are trying to get to purchase your product. To play your product and invest their time and money into your product. If you want to shun us out, that’s fine. There’s thousands of other games on the market we can gladly invest our money into. Many of which are releasing games or expansions the same week Infinite Campaign drops.

The next few paragraphs give a light overview of the fact they realize the playlist debacle doesn’t work, but tries to create an excuse behind the UI system and QA testing, as if we don’t realize that games should and do go through testing and quality assurance. The problem is, even with their extensive QA and testing, the game (not gameplay - universally that has been positive feedback) looks as if it was released at least 8 months too early. The number of clipping issues, server desynch issues, crashing clients, etc. is unsatisfatory. I understand, this is a beta and I understand companies can now add content and update content throughout the life of the game, but when you release a game (especially 3 weeks early) and there are this many issues, and the company’s only response is, “Big fixes take a lot longer to take care of.” It means it was released way too early. If I bought a car and it only worked 65% of the time like it is supposed to, and the dealership’s only response is, “well, we are working on fixing that. Give us some time and please be patient.” I would stop buying cars from that dealership. Plain and simple.

Again ske7ch uses global launch and holidays as an excuse as to why they don’t have more time to fix things. Nobody told them to release Infinite multiplayer 3 weeks early globally. Nobody told them to release it for free, disconnected from the campaign. They made this mess, and now they are being held accountable for it by the player base.

Ske7ch goes on to say that he doesn’t like having to queue up 20 games to play 1 game of oddball and maybe win that so he can get credit towards winning 3. Guess what ske7ch, we don’t either. Nobody on this end ever thought a system like that, with challenges set up the way they are, would be a good idea. This is why we want communication as to “whose bright idea” it was and “what have you been doing for 6 years” because things like this make us scratch our heads and wonder what exactly anyone over there was thinking to believe this was a good idea. What makes it even worse, is we were promised challenges would work the way we play the game, and we wouldn’t be forced to play certain ways in order to complete challenges. Fast-forward to launch and we are forced to play specific game modes, get eliminations with specific weapons, win specific matches and all the while, removing the ability to do it in bot lobbies for 90% of the challenges so those of lower skill level have little hope of completing these challenges without the challenge swaps (this is why the player base thinks 343i is forcing purchase of challenge swaps).

He goes on to ask if the weekly reward is worth the strain of the weekly challenges. Short answer for you ske7ch, no. No they are not. Completing 20 weekly challenges should be WAY more than enough to get a weekly reward. In reality, completing 7-10 should be enough to get the weekly reward, and the remaining challenges should be just to get through your progression faster. What is frustrating is ske7ch works for 343i, he has the ears of the developers, of the employees directly responsible for working on this game, and either he isn’t stressing these criticisms enough, he isn’t being listened to, or some combination of the two. Does ske7ch deserve to be blasted? Don’t know, because the problems are being communicated loud and clear from our end, but we are getting no worthwhile information coming back from 343i to know where the problem sits as to why things are the way they are, and how things are going to be changed.

He goes on to lightly touch on the shop and how running a game/servers/company is expensive and this is the business model they chose to make that money. He doesn’t say if prices are going to be adjusted. He doesn’t say why they changed to this business model. He doesn’t go on to explain the reasoning for it. His statement basically boils down to, “this is how we agreed to make revenue so it is staying. Deal with it.”

Finally he closes with that everyone is entitled to their opinion and he understands players are going to leave but he is really proud of the foundation that 343i has for Halo Infinite. What is funny is one of his last statements, “I’d rather have people who are so passionate they’re yelling at us than nobody caring at all.” Problem with that is, people get tired of yelling. Eventually they do stop caring because they aren’t being listened to. How quickly they forget how fast Halo MCC player base left because of problems like this. Because 343i didn’t listen to their players. Now they’ve raised the bar on ignoring their players and basically told us, “if you don’t like it, leave.”

I don’t believe the problems with halo are ske7ch343’s fault, and he doesn’t deserve to get blasted, screamed at, threatened, etc. Neither do any of the developers of Infinite. They do deserve to be held accountable for the parts they played in allowing this to happen to the game. I continue to encourage players to voice their concerns and issues with what is undeniably wrong with the game, and hope that 343i starts to listen. Otherwise, we, as always, will speak loudest with our wallets. Players will stop buying the battle pass. They will not buy anything from the shop. They’ll play a few games for the enjoyment and leave it at that, or they will leave entirely for other games and other companies that actually do pay attention to their player base.

I, for one, haven’t purchased the campaign yet. I haven’t bought anything from the shop, and the only real money I spent was on the battle pass. I will play campaign (thank you xbox gold membership!) and hope it is really great, but I hope they fix the problems we have, and fix them fast. Otherwise, maybe I’ll run into all of you in other games. :slight_smile:

If anyone from 343i actually does come into halowaypoint and read these threads, I hope they take them seriously as to our frustrations from Infinite. The gameplay is fantastic and I applaud them on that, but it doesn’t overshadow or excuse everything else that is wrong with it.

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Everyone is talking about how good the Halo MCC is, but the reality is the game is basically dead after 6 years. Not only have 343 given it a lot of love and care, they have lots of customisation for free, progression system, customs slider yet the game is still dying.

They probably didn’t want to change the classic Halo formula, but they had to. Multiplayer games can no longer operate how they used to and survive.

People are questioning the decisions made like they know better when most of it has been put in place to help future proof the game. Whether you like it or not, that’s why this has been done. They will change what they need to in order to make this game a success.

I’m not denying some missteps have been made, but it’s clear they’re listening and will make improvements to satisfy the players. This also doesn’t mean everyone will get what they want, some of what people are asking for would literally kill the game.

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agreed. hard to be sold on ske7ch’s narrative about time constraints when the flight had a dedicated slayer playlist and there are already challenges that award XP for winning a match. there are changes they could implement right now to make the game better, they shouldn’t take any substantial amount of time.

the fact that they removed fiesta despite a dearth of gamemodes being available just shows that 343i doesn’t view the lack of content to be a huge issue. and if they can treat gamemodes they supposedly worked hard on so disposably, why can’t we have simple modes like SWAT, Shotty Snipers or FFA?

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I mean the problem of having multiplayer games “survive” was solved 20+ years ago. You simply include mapping tools and a server browser, and let people host their own servers. Plenty of old games still have people playing and enjoying them to this day. Let’s be real the “10 year plan” is a plan to try to suck money from your wallet for 10 years. It’s more like “how can we get people to pay us for a single product for 10 years”. They could have just done their best to put players first and sold us a great game with maybe a couple updates but of course the investors, managers, and corporate overlords won’t let that happen when they can instead try to milk whales who have low impulse control via predatory mtx.

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I apologize if my post about MCC was confusing. I had meant to emphasize how terrible it actually was at launch. They put a lot of effort into it to fix it, but by the time they did, they had lost too many people. I actually preordered MCC and played it for about a week when it finally came out. Saw how much they gutted it compared to previous Halo’s and uninstalled. I didn’t actually pick it back up until two months before Infinite was set to release, just so I could warm up my Halo muscle-memory again.

I agree with you that not everything should be made how the player base wants. I know a lot of people are demanding the shop go away entirely. I don’t think that is the route to go. However, there are multiple ways to make money, and I don’t think 1 armor set should cost 1/3rd of the campaign to purchase either.

All previous Halo armor sets should be included in battle passes, or unlockable through achievements or campaigns. It doesn’t make sense to take it from us now and stick a dollar sign on it and hope we’ll buy it for the nostalgia.

All new custom armor sets should be coming through the shop, but at significantly reduced prices. Especially since those armors cannot be combined with armors of other armor cores.

These armor color coatings are garbage and should have been nixed since day one. Keep the old primary/secondary color schemes, but monetize armor effects/patterns (again at a reasonable price).

I’m not against micro-transactions. I know they are a necessarily evil to help keep servers active and maintained well. When I open the shop, however, and see 1 set of armor is going to cost me $20USD and I can only use it on 1 armor core. It turns me off to spending any money.

What is worse is armor coatings and weapon coatings. They aren’t for ALL weaopns and ALL vehicles. They are for 1 weapon or 1 vehicle. I’m not spending $10 on 1 color for 1 weapon. It just isn’t happening. I’m not spending that on 1 color for all the weapons, again it just isn’t worth it.

What is scarier is there are rumors that 343i may move towards NFT’s for armors and coatings. If that happens, it’ll be the last halo game I purchase.

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It’s not dead because of any of that. It’s dead because it’s a freaking remaster/collection of games people have played 20 times in the past 20 years. Beating it every way which. The only reason ANYONE is playing it still is because of those customizations and progression. Sick of people like you pointing to low player count on MCC. A game literally composed of old games. You CANNOT use that to draw some parallel to a modern AAA game. The only reason MCC was any success is because people liked the old formula. MCC satisfied more people than 4 & 5 did. Because people like the old formula.

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Halo 5 is the same tho…

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Yeah, yeah we get it.

“343 isn’t listening.”

Why don’t you put it on a t-shirt while you’re at it?

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If you dipped, you ain’t the main playerbase.

None of us are even the target demographic anymore.

I stopped playing video games in general, I’ve started again in the last couple of years and rediscovered my love for Halo. I don’t really care for things I don’t enjoy, so if Halo turned into something I didn’t like I would play something else. Gears Judgement wasn’t for me so I dropped my favourite series, 4 was alright though so I was back on board.

Maybe I’m fickle but I ain’t wasting my time doing something I don’t like even if it is my favourite series. RIP Guitar Hero.

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How do you hear the words spiritual reboot, and see them trying to go back to roots, and think people like me are not the main playerbase 343 is trying to regain loyalty from?

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Well atleast people can stop with the oh Microsoft made them bs.

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I respectfully state that the OP and I seem to have read different articles. While I found some of the information disappointing to be sure, I feel I have a firm grasp on what will/won’t happen and I can respect that. We aren’t going to get Halo 3.0 made by yelling and stamping our feet (which is tending to drown out more considered critique).

Not saying this particularly post is of the stampyfooted variety, but it does have a lot of demands in it. Honestly, 343i owes us nothing, we are not entitled to detailed information about all the goings on and finer details behind decisions or lack thereof. It is awesome when devs can/will share that info but we are entitled to nothing. The only real way to express any measure of control over a title is to not purchase/engage. Feedback can absolutely be provided but there is no control expressed in that because they are not required to do anything with it.

I don’t say that in a dismissive way, some of these changes that were made felt really badly to me as a longtime fan of the franchise but I understand that I’m not in control of anything but my wallet. I personally plan to purchase the campaign and not spend on the mtx store without some serious changes. That way the analytics will show my tiny data point as engaging with the paid content and not spending in the f2p component. That little spec of data is all I can conceivably control.

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Really good dissection of Ske7ch’s “response.” It’s good to hear SOMEONE is trying somewhere within 343, but this is the kind of response that has made people dislike 343 over the years.

We give feedback.

They ignore it and say they know best.

The game dies (Halo 4, 5, MCC, Infinite, whatever).

They finally start making the changes we asked for and “cry” and point the finger at us.

No one is happy in the end.

It’s like an abusive relationship. Forreal. Why couldn’t we just get a post on waypoint detailing what feedback and problems they’re currently looking at addressing? No, we get a Reddit post in an aggressive tone “playing victim.” Why does this gotta be a soap opera? Geez.

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I agree with everything you have written here my ruined.

Do they deserve abuse?? NO WAY

But they should be held accountable and everyone should continue to voice concerns, otherwise they will try keeping you sweet with all these emotional responses, having you accept whatever they tell you.

Wellllllll…NO
We wont accept crocodile tears thanks, we want action, not words!!!

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And how is that crocodile tears? Seriously. Imagine you’re the cm of the Halo community. Wouldn’t you be feeling some kind of way after all that abuse?

Yeah tone it down chief. Halo subreddit just got locked and people are still acting like damn fools.

And I would ask him if, as a fellow fan, he truly believes selling the color blue for $8 is really offering the best experience like he said 343 wants to do. I don’t doubt his frustrations, but a lot of the things they brought up were choices 343 made, not things beyond their control. People should tone down the rhetoric and abuse, but ske7ch’s response didn’t really offer much either in the grand scheme of things.

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Not saying 343’s completely innocent. They’re not but trying to turn them into the villain of the story is just silly.

Plus, I’m pretty sure everyone’s aware of 343’s missteps. At this point, it’s just beating a dead horse.
The same worn out posts condemning “corporate greed” gets annoying after a while. No need to crucify them anymore than needed.

They get the message.

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If you are aware of a problem but do nothing about it (and Ske7ch did say the battle pass and premium store are path forward for the foreseeable future), then I don’t think they have gotten the message. They may offer platitudes about how they are frustrated, but they’ll continue to accept people’s money and offer a bundle that gives the color red to four guns at the price of $5. Or blue for ONE armor core at $8 (which is indistinguishable from the free blue you get with MK.VII).

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At a certain point Microsoft’s Halo IP management company might need a re-org to get the ship on the right course. It’s been 10 years and we haven’t even matched Halo Reach let alone Halo 3.

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His response was him complaining about us complaining and basically telling us to shut up and deal with it. They also locked down the sub reddit because its more toxic than the forums.

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