Infinite connected to MCC

I was thinking earlier , what if in Infinite there was a way to enter MCC multiplayer servers? Not saying that we aren’t getting a new multiplayer , but if you could choose to play MCC from inside Infinite it might go a long way towards improving MCC population numbers and bring back old players to the fold who pick up infinite to check out the new Halo and if they don’t like the new multiplayer they simply play MCC.

Just a thought.

It will probably never happen as it seems to draw people away from your featured release. But if -Yoink!- or 343 could see the benefits , I think it could help both sides of the community.

Edit: This is not an add on for MCC. This is a link to the MCC through Infinite. Sorry for the confusion.

I think you may have answered your own question. The keepers of the coin purse aren’t going to dilute their latest entry by advertising an old one.

I appreciate your use of the dollar sign with the Microsoft abbreviation by the way lol.

I think that the biggest issue would be getting upwards of 7 games working together. If H5 is included, then we are looking at 8. I don’t want Infinite to re-live the catastrophic launch of the MCC because I just don’t think the population can handle it. That’s not even considering the fact that the game would take a ridiculous amount of memory to install.

I think the more likely scenario to help the MCC would be to keep it on game pass after Infinite releases. If Infinite has a successful launch and brings new players to the series, they would be more likely to try out the MCC after they spend some time with Infinite

I hope that as time goes on, Halo titles get brought into the MCC infrastructure. For instance, I think it would be awesome if they could fold Halo 5 in to MCC a couple years (realistic timeline) after Infinite launches. And then later fold Infinite in a few years after the next launch.

Essentially, I hope I can play the Master Chief Collection for the next 30 years with titles continually getting added in as the Halo story continues on.

> 2614366390849210;4:
> I hope that as time goes on, Halo titles get brought into the MCC infrastructure. For instance, I think it would be awesome if they could fold Halo 5 in to MCC a couple years (realistic timeline) after Infinite launches. And then later fold Infinite in a few years after the next launch.
>
> Essentially, I hope I can play the Master Chief Collection for the next 30 years with titles continually getting added in as the Halo story continues on.

The mcc can’t handle anymore engines. It’s reached the limit that the Xbox can support. With better hardware, it might be possible to add additional games to mcc, but that would mean retiring the game on Xbox which would be a big nono.

It might also be limited at the software level, and thus impossible to add further games to the collection even on PC or Series X.

> 2533274817408735;5:
> > 2614366390849210;4:
> > I hope that as time goes on, Halo titles get brought into the MCC infrastructure. For instance, I think it would be awesome if they could fold Halo 5 in to MCC a couple years (realistic timeline) after Infinite launches. And then later fold Infinite in a few years after the next launch.
> >
> > Essentially, I hope I can play the Master Chief Collection for the next 30 years with titles continually getting added in as the Halo story continues on.
>
> The mcc can’t handle anymore engines. It’s reached the limit that the Xbox can support. With better hardware, it might be possible to add additional games to mcc, but that would mean retiring the game on Xbox which would be a big nono.
>
> It might also be limited at the software level, and thus impossible to add further games to the collection even on PC or Series X.

As someone who works on software, I think you’re dismissing something without enough consideration.

  1. What tells you the Xbox can’t handle any more engines? I would like to know what you’re basing this conclusion on. Everything but Halo 5 is running on engines that are either 1 or 2 console generations removed now. These definitely aren’t a big tax on the hardware on their own. (The reason you have given here was also given for why “Reach would never come to the MCC,” which was a common thought 3 years ago. )

  2. With the “choose your install” approach MS is taking, why couldn’t future games only be added to builds running on hardware that could support them? The support that MS has given MCC over the last 5 years lends more evidence that it is intended to be a platform for the community to enjoy Halo on foot a looooong time into the future.

> 2614366390849210;6:
> > 2533274817408735;5:
> > > 2614366390849210;4:
> > > I hope that as time goes on, Halo titles get brought into the MCC infrastructure. For instance, I think it would be awesome if they could fold Halo 5 in to MCC a couple years (realistic timeline) after Infinite launches. And then later fold Infinite in a few years after the next launch.
> > >
> > > Essentially, I hope I can play the Master Chief Collection for the next 30 years with titles continually getting added in as the Halo story continues on.
> >
> > The mcc can’t handle anymore engines. It’s reached the limit that the Xbox can support. With better hardware, it might be possible to add additional games to mcc, but that would mean retiring the game on Xbox which would be a big nono.
> >
> > It might also be limited at the software level, and thus impossible to add further games to the collection even on PC or Series X.
>
> As someone who works on software, I think you’re dismissing something without enough consideration.
>
> 1) What tells you the Xbox can’t handle any more engines? I would like to know what you’re basing this conclusion on. Everything but Halo 5 is running on engines that are either 1 or 2 console generations removed now. These definitely aren’t a big tax on the hardware on their own. (The reason you have given here was also given for why “Reach would never come to the MCC,” which was a common thought 3 years ago. )
>
> 2) With the “choose your install” approach MS is taking, why couldn’t future games only be added to builds running on hardware that could support them? The support that MS has given MCC over the last 5 years lends more evidence that it is intended to be a platform for the community to enjoy Halo on foot a looooong time into the future.

Last year during the development of mcc on pc and reach on mcc, 343 shared the difficulties of the process. One such difficulty mentioned was the memory limitations of having 11 different engines on one app for the Xbox version. They barely managed to add in Reach and the UE4 UI.

More info can be found in the July and August 2019 MCC development updates.

I wasn’t speaking of adding anything to MCC other than a backdoor that can be accessed through Infinite.
For example:
Infinite is a full product stand alone title
Within the multiplayer menu (only if MCC is installed) there is a link that allows access to the servers. There are lots of former Halo players that bought MCC at launch and never returned to it. I wouldn’t have , had I not been keeping up here. I just think it’s way that if former players come back for the new hotness and don’t like it ; maybe they would stay to play the tried and true.

My original concept was just a link to the servers or streaming cloud version or whatever , no download of MCC needed…but that would require a lot of technical infrastructure that I’m not sure every one has yet.

Sorry if the original post wasn’t clear and steered the conversation in an unintended direction.

Here’s something to think about. MS has said the Series X wil be able to hold multiple games in a "ready to play"state, where the multiple games will have instant resume. This gives us the ability to jump between MCC, H5, and HI multiplayer instantly.

Or that’s the dream at least :slight_smile:

Also MCC menu already lets you jump into Halo 5. I think you have to pick the “extras” option at the bottom of the menu to see it.

> 2614366390849210;9:
> Also MCC menu already lets you jump into Halo 5. I think you have to pick the “extras” option at the bottom of the menu to see it.

That was a beta test or early access thing though, not the official game, I think clicking that sends you nowhere relevant to where you’d think it sends you (like when a gateway crashes on your browser.)

> 2533274879757912;10:
> > 2614366390849210;9:
> > Also MCC menu already lets you jump into Halo 5. I think you have to pick the “extras” option at the bottom of the menu to see it.
>
> That was a beta test or early access thing though, not the official game, I think clicking that sends you nowhere relevant to where you’d think it sends you (like when a gateway crashes on your browser.)

It used to link to the Halo 5 Beta and then was no longer selectable after the beta ended but in 2018 (think it was the September update) it got changed to a Halo 5 launcher. If you have Halo 5 installed it’ll just launch it (don’t know what happens if you don’t, I’d guess it sends you to the Microsoft Store page for Halo 5).

Not much use on XB1 given it closes MCC but maybe that multiple games in ready to play state feature for Series X was known about at 343 when the update was being done.

> 2533274817408735;7:
> Last year during the development of mcc on pc and reach on mcc, 343 shared the difficulties of the process. One such difficulty mentioned was the memory limitations of having 11 different engines on one app for the Xbox version. They barely managed to add in Reach and the UE4 UI.
>
> More info can be found in the July and August 2019 MCC development updates.

To be fair, I’m having serious doubts about these statements.

First of all, it’s not 11 different engines. It’s more something around 4-5 (depending on what needs to be loaded for the UI) as all the main Halo games (not the anniversary overlay) run on the same BLAM!-engine, with some minor modifications. Rewriting/exchanging a few classes does not make it a completely different engine. 343 already tried to pull this stunt during H5G’s development, where they claimed the game would run on an entirely new engine to create hype, then suddenly admitting it’s the same engine with some rewrites in a tweet, after the launch window. (Btw, Bungie did the same thing during Reach development.) Now, I don’t know if this was deliberate misdirection or if the PR department simply doesn’t know what the word “engine” means, but I am fairly sure that whatever the reason, it’s happening again here. Either way, the main game engines themselves likely have enough classess in common that you can load them all from a shared library, only having to switch out the parts that are different between titles. This is far less taxing on the hardware than running 11 individual engines simultaneously, so even at best, there is some exaggeration going on.

Secondly, 343 is not known to be completely honest about their development process in the first place. Even disregarding the “completely new engine” thing from above as well as all the stuff concerning gameplay (Halo 4 would play like Halo CE again, Halo 2 MCC would be “exactly like it shipped 10 years ago”, allegedly no spread penalty for not ADSing in H5G, etc), has everybody already forgotten that they still assured us H5G would ship with splitscreen mere weeks from release? Multiplayer splitscreen, that is. But even campaign split screen was only axed a few months before that. I have serious doubts that this is something they only just realized in the final stages of development.

> 2533274801176260;12:
> Secondly, 343 is not known to be completely honest about their development process in the first place.

If you aren’t going to take 343 at their word, then what even is the point of following Halo development or supporting them at all? A little skepticism can be healthy, but there is a big difference between how 343 has been communicating with the development of updating MCC and how 343 marketed upcoming new titles in the past. They’ve made a real effort to increase transparency in the past couple years as a result of backlash from things like the examples you mentioned. The dev updates, specifically the detailing of the pitfalls, came from actual devs, not franchise directors or marketing teams. What reason would a dev have to lie about overcoming memory limitations? It’s not like it ended up cancelling the project, it was simply a roadblock they had to (and did) work around.

As for your first paragraph about it not being as major an issue as the dev updates made it seem, I can’t help but see that as armchair development. I don’t know your background and you could be in software or even game development, but even if you were coming from an area of actual expertise, every situation is different and you don’t know they struggles the team actually had to go through. And my “11 different engines” statement was merely an oversimplification/paraphrasing of the much more in depth detailing that the actual updates went into, hence why I pointed out which dev updates to read through. Additionally, when you consider the fact that all of the current entries in MCC were games developed for older generations of hardware, and that H5 (however close it’s code is to previous Halo engine iterations) is the only Halo that was designed from the ground up for current gen hardware, it’s not beyond belief to conclude that trying to jam it into a single app with a bunch of other games would exceed limitations of some sort.

I wouldn’t be surprised if, in another 3 years, 343 announced a full port of H5 to PC. But I doubt it would be added to the MCC and I don’t think it needs to be. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a current gen game in a collection with other games, and there is probably a technical reason for that.

> 2533274817408735;13:
> [snip]

There is a huge difference between following the development of a title and taking everything said therein at face value. Just because somebody doesn’t do the latter does not mean they should just stop informing themselves altogether.

For the record, I do have a background in software development, although not specifically in game development, this I openly admit. That being said, my work does involve a hefty amount of reusing and refurbishing old code to work in unintended ways, including running on newer and different harware, as well as making this very code run in different environments. (And I’m not talking the miniscule differences between Xbox and Windows here, I’m talking Windows vs Linux vs Mac, although the latter two are more similar than dissimilar when it comes to coding.) Even if that weren’t the case, everybody with a sufficiently high skill level in class-based programming can extrapolate from their field to at least make educated guesses on which statements seem plausible and which don’t. And that statement with the “11 engines” seemed highly dubious to me, which you have already admitted was paraphrasing.

I had already seen the August Update before (not the July Update though) and all it talks about is them having issues with memory restrictions. Now, this I can buy, especially trying to fit everything in such a way to run on the first XBone model, given that it was already hilariously outdated when it released, particularly with respects to RAM and especially considering what they were initially planning with it. (Kinect constantly running while watching TV, streaming services and gaming, probably at the same time with docked apps? Yeah, not gonna happen with 8Gig DDR3.)

However, Reach being such a huge issue made me raise my eyebrow back then just as much as it still does now, especially given that the MCC has already Halo 4 running inside it. You could have made the point that the jump from Halo 3 (or even ODST) to Reach added a huge amount of things that weren’t there before that now need to be loaded into RAM, but there really wasn’t that big of a technical upgrade to Halo 4 so that Reach couldn’t draw the majority of its resources from stuff that’s already there. Even if there had been a significant amount of stuff added to Halo 4, that doesn’t mean that they immediately throw out the old. There might be some renaming and relinking necessary, but that’s called optimization and is simly part of the process.

Again, I’m not saying that these are outright lies, but they do sound like exaggeration in some cases. Remember that 343 is still in the pre-release marketing phase for MCC, as the game has not yet completely launched on PC. Playing the sympathy card and stressing how hard it was to get all of this working is still a good deflection tactic in case something goes horribly wrong like it did with, well, with the Master Chief Collection. And I bet everybody there, developer or not, knows this and is doing everything to prepare for this possible eventuality.

Despite all this, I just want to clarify that I am not arguing in favor of Infinite or even H5G being added to the MCC, neither that it will, nor that it even should. Specifically with H5G, this might be highly unlikely, depending on how the legal progress on Microtransactions and Loot Boxes is going to turn out. In fact, given all its other shortcomings (missing splitscreen, horrible story, broken theater, etc.) I expect them to treat it the same way Bethesda is treating all the bad Elder Scrolls and Fallout spinoffs, omitting them from all game collections and re-releases and pretend they never existed. (And yes, I know H5G is not a spinoff; however since none of the future games will be numbered, nobody will notice if one title is missing, and depending how Infinite’s intro recaps the story, it won’t be needed.)

> 2533274848051892;11:
> > 2533274879757912;10:
> > > 2614366390849210;9:
> > > Also MCC menu already lets you jump into Halo 5. I think you have to pick the “extras” option at the bottom of the menu to see it.
> >
> > That was a beta test or early access thing though, not the official game, I think clicking that sends you nowhere relevant to where you’d think it sends you (like when a gateway crashes on your browser.)
>
> It used to link to the Halo 5 Beta and then was no longer selectable after the beta ended but in 2018 (think it was the September update) it got changed to a Halo 5 launcher. If you have Halo 5 installed it’ll just launch it (don’t know what happens if you don’t, I’d guess it sends you to the Microsoft Store page for Halo 5).
>
> Not much use on XB1 given it closes MCC but maybe that multiple games in ready to play state feature for Series X was known about at 343 when the update was being done.

Huh, didn’t know that, but then again I haven’t really clicked it as when I want to play Halo 5 I just select it in my My Games and Apps area.