Infantry in Halo Wars 2...

I find that every Multiplayer game I head into there is always at least one person who decides to do a Marine/Grunt Squad and possibly a Hellbringer rush. I know that people hate this and so do I. So I had an idea where Barracks’ can’t be built until HQ Tech 2 - that way people can build up defenses and have a chance. Or, if that doesn’t seem okay, they can be built at the start, but for example Marines take 14 seconds each instead of 4. While we’re at it, Jackrabbits shouldn’t be able to be made at HQ Tech 1. Instead, they can be made at HQ Tech 2 and they have the Grenade launcher ability from the get go. Give me your thoughts please.

EDIT: I went too overboard with the Jackrabbits - forget about it.

I think it’s awful to push both scouting units and infantry to T2. Those kinds of rushes are high risk/high reward. If you scout the enemy and find they’re amassing a infantry/scout army you can prepare for that. Place mines, build a turret, pump out some units of your own. However, depending on how you set up your base you’ll have an advantage or disadvantage. For example if you’re fast teching then you’ll most likely lose and that’s the risk you run, but you could also build a barracks and pump out suicide grunts/snipers. JR is tricky to deal with, but it’s going to be reexamined in the next update, sooo.

My point is that you could be doing more to defend yourself from rushes.

> 2533274847916490;2:
> I think it’s awful to push both scouting units and infantry to T2. Those kinds of rushes are high risk/high reward. If you scout the enemy and find they’re amassing a infantry/scout army you can prepare for that. Place mines, build a turret, pump out some units of your own. However, depending on how you set up your base you’ll have an advantage or disadvantage. For example if you’re fast teching then you’ll most likely lose and that’s the risk you run, but you could also build a barracks and pump out suicide grunts/snipers. JR is tricky to deal with, but it’s going to be reexamined in the next update, sooo.
>
> My point is that you could be doing more to defend yourself from rushes.

Understood. However, I built up all 4 turrets and still lost to a Kinsano Hellbringer rush…

> 2535441687762024;3:
> > 2533274847916490;2:
> > I think it’s awful to push both scouting units and infantry to T2. Those kinds of rushes are high risk/high reward. If you scout the enemy and find they’re amassing a infantry/scout army you can prepare for that. Place mines, build a turret, pump out some units of your own. However, depending on how you set up your base you’ll have an advantage or disadvantage. For example if you’re fast teching then you’ll most likely lose and that’s the risk you run, but you could also build a barracks and pump out suicide grunts/snipers. JR is tricky to deal with, but it’s going to be reexamined in the next update, sooo.
> >
> > My point is that you could be doing more to defend yourself from rushes.
>
> Understood. However, I built up all 4 turrets and still lost to a Kinsano Hellbringer rush…

Infantry rush can be beaten… just takes preparation or teamwork. Snipers are awesome early game. A mix of snipers with hellbringers and marines is formidable until main line units start showing up… then gotta mix in some Cyclops. Most players use infantry to a degree early on, so just expect that. Turrets alone cant stop a decent infantry push… nor should they, you have to mix in some infantry as well.

I don’t agree with this. Having scout units at tech 2 kinda defeats their purpose. Plus infantry rushes are easy to stop if you see them coming. Pump out Suicide Grunts or Snipers and you should be good.

I think infantry is fine the way it is now. Turrets, leader powers, and scout vehicles can all beat infantry.

HOWEVER. I totally disagree that it is “high risk” to rush in this game. If you rush, your opponent has to turtle a bit in order to counter, so they lose map control.
Rushing in HW2 is no risk at all. You almost have to push your units early so you can get some map control, unless you want to turtle anyway and just one base it to T3, locust spam, or something else.

> 2535441687762024;1:
> I find that every Multiplayer game I head into there is always at least one person who decides to do a Marine/Grunt Squad and possibly a Hellbringer rush. I know that people hate this and so do I. So I had an idea where Barracks’ can’t be built until HQ Tech 2 - that way people can build up defenses and have a chance. Or, if that doesn’t seem okay, they can be built at the start, but for example Marines take 14 seconds each instead of 4. While we’re at it, Jackrabbits shouldn’t be able to be made at HQ Tech 1. Instead, they can be made at HQ Tech 2 and they have the Grenade launcher ability from the get go. Give me your thoughts please.

Read to “had an idea that barracks can’t be built until tech 2” and couldn’t read any more seriously. I wonder what your oppinion on jackrabbits is, should they be built from the garage??

No, but in all seriousness that is preposterous. You advocate no army early game and that my friend eliminates far too many options and restricts play at too greatly to be fun. Honestly you just need to get better at beating rushes by turtling and then you will see that you are indeed misguided and that the current marines being built from bases at tech 1 is absolutly fine.

> 2535441687762024;3:
> > 2533274847916490;2:
> > I think it’s awful to push both scouting units and infantry to T2. Those kinds of rushes are high risk/high reward. If you scout the enemy and find they’re amassing a infantry/scout army you can prepare for that. Place mines, build a turret, pump out some units of your own. However, depending on how you set up your base you’ll have an advantage or disadvantage. For example if you’re fast teching then you’ll most likely lose and that’s the risk you run, but you could also build a barracks and pump out suicide grunts/snipers. JR is tricky to deal with, but it’s going to be reexamined in the next update, sooo.
> >
> > My point is that you could be doing more to defend yourself from rushes.
>
> Understood. However, I built up all 4 turrets and still lost to a Kinsano Hellbringer rush…

Next time you scout a hellbringer rush (early barracks or barracks proxy on a minibase) instantly go scout-vehicles. They hard counter the T1 anti-building rushes.

If they go marines go jackrabbits + turrets or scout vehicle+engineers+turrets as banished.

If they go JRs, just get turrets and fast tech. Or engineers + expo as banished and turrets.

JRs will also beat chopper/ghost rushes.

You can’t push every unit to tech 2 because the game would be about getting to tech 2 to then rush whoever hasn’t reach tech 2 yet lol.

All infantry right now is very very balanced. (Rangers just need upgrades and that’s it).

> 2533274821521504;9:
> You can’t push every unit to tech 2 because the game would be about getting to tech 2 to then rush whoever hasn’t reach tech 2 yet lol.
>
> All infantry right now is very very balanced. (Rangers just need upgrades and that’s it).

Rangers are gud in 5-6 squads… i think they’re fine.

> 2535422957995460;10:
> > 2533274821521504;9:
> > You can’t push every unit to tech 2 because the game would be about getting to tech 2 to then rush whoever hasn’t reach tech 2 yet lol.
> >
> > All infantry right now is very very balanced. (Rangers just need upgrades and that’s it).
>
> Rangers are gud in 5-6 squads… i think they’re fine.

I think Rangers need a buff. Being tech 2 vs Snipers being tech 1, it is kinda weird that Snipers are so much better than Rangers.

> 2747061737001349;11:
> > 2535422957995460;10:
> > > 2533274821521504;9:
> > > You can’t push every unit to tech 2 because the game would be about getting to tech 2 to then rush whoever hasn’t reach tech 2 yet lol.
> > >
> > > All infantry right now is very very balanced. (Rangers just need upgrades and that’s it).
> >
> > Rangers are gud in 5-6 squads… i think they’re fine.
>
> I think Rangers need a buff. Being tech 2 vs Snipers being tech 1, it is kinda weird that Snipers are so much better than Rangers.

Banish have better vehicles [choppers and ghosts] in T1, While UNSC gets gud vehicles in T2… use choppers against snipers.

> 2747061737001349;11:
> > 2535422957995460;10:
> > > 2533274821521504;9:
> > > You can’t push every unit to tech 2 because the game would be about getting to tech 2 to then rush whoever hasn’t reach tech 2 yet lol.
> > >
> > > All infantry right now is very very balanced. (Rangers just need upgrades and that’s it).
> >
> > Rangers are gud in 5-6 squads… i think they’re fine.
>
> I think Rangers need a buff. Being tech 2 vs Snipers being tech 1, it is kinda weird that Snipers are so much better than Rangers.

They’re not.

> 2533274833785535;13:
> > 2747061737001349;11:
> > > 2535422957995460;10:
> > > > 2533274821521504;9:
> > > > You can’t push every unit to tech 2 because the game would be about getting to tech 2 to then rush whoever hasn’t reach tech 2 yet lol.
> > > >
> > > > All infantry right now is very very balanced. (Rangers just need upgrades and that’s it).
> > >
> > > Rangers are gud in 5-6 squads… i think they’re fine.
> >
> > I think Rangers need a buff. Being tech 2 vs Snipers being tech 1, it is kinda weird that Snipers are so much better than Rangers.
>
> They’re not.

Snipers are if they have their upgrades, and I believe that’s the argument here. Vanilla Rangers are better than vanilla Snipers, hence the tech difference. But as the game goes on Snipers get more utility, while rangers do not.

I Honestly wish the 1/2 starting units were warthogs, maybe un gunned. So much easier to scout for everyone. JRs are the worst additions to the game. Useless, unless you rush with them.

The warthogs would survive longer and get resources faster and scout better. I feel like having marine starting units, kind of hurts newer people from scouting, and with having to go out of my routine to produce a jr and send it and see what both teams are doing, it usually dies before anything useful is built so I have to produce another. Etc. This is early game.

> 2533274927740213;14:
> > 2533274833785535;13:
> > > 2747061737001349;11:
> > > > 2535422957995460;10:
> > > > > 2533274821521504;9:
> > > > > You can’t push every unit to tech 2 because the game would be about getting to tech 2 to then rush whoever hasn’t reach tech 2 yet lol.
> > > > >
> > > > > All infantry right now is very very balanced. (Rangers just need upgrades and that’s it).
> > > >
> > > > Rangers are gud in 5-6 squads… i think they’re fine.
> > >
> > > I think Rangers need a buff. Being tech 2 vs Snipers being tech 1, it is kinda weird that Snipers are so much better than Rangers.
> >
> > They’re not.
>
> Snipers are if they have their upgrades, and I believe that’s the argument here. Vanilla Rangers are better than vanilla Snipers, hence the tech difference. But as the game goes on Snipers get more utility, while rangers do not.

The units serve different purposes.

Sure in T3 snipers are generally more effective than rangers, generally. Rangers are still better vs a raid2 Cutter spamming marines due to them being so much more tankier and their effective dps is actually higher too.

Snipers have the longer range and cloak which is nice and all, and they do really well against other rangers/hunters, but are pretty terribly against grunts due to the high model count.

Come T3 banished don’t need rangers as wraiths, when well microed, will beat all infantry, including an equal pop of cyclops.

> 2533274820642782;7:
> > 2535441687762024;1:
> > I find that every Multiplayer game I head into there is always at least one person who decides to do a Marine/Grunt Squad and possibly a Hellbringer rush. I know that people hate this and so do I. So I had an idea where Barracks’ can’t be built until HQ Tech 2 - that way people can build up defenses and have a chance. Or, if that doesn’t seem okay, they can be built at the start, but for example Marines take 14 seconds each instead of 4. While we’re at it, Jackrabbits shouldn’t be able to be made at HQ Tech 1. Instead, they can be made at HQ Tech 2 and they have the Grenade launcher ability from the get go. Give me your thoughts please.
>
> Read to “had an idea that barracks can’t be built until tech 2” and couldn’t read any more seriously. I wonder what your oppinion on jackrabbits is, should they be built from the garage??
>
> No, but in all seriousness that is preposterous. You advocate no army early game and that my friend eliminates far too many options and restricts play at too greatly to be fun. Honestly you just need to get better at beating rushes by turtling and then you will see that you are indeed misguided and that the current marines being built from bases at tech 1 is absolutly fine.

Yeah I think I went a bit too overboard with the Jackrabbits. Marines being able to be built in 4 seconds IS a problem. Go from 4 seconds to 8 seconds or something.

> 2663289422510355;4:
> > 2535441687762024;3:
> > > 2533274847916490;2:
> > > I think it’s awful to push both scouting units and infantry to T2. Those kinds of rushes are high risk/high reward. If you scout the enemy and find they’re amassing a infantry/scout army you can prepare for that. Place mines, build a turret, pump out some units of your own. However, depending on how you set up your base you’ll have an advantage or disadvantage. For example if you’re fast teching then you’ll most likely lose and that’s the risk you run, but you could also build a barracks and pump out suicide grunts/snipers. JR is tricky to deal with, but it’s going to be reexamined in the next update, sooo.
> > >
> > > My point is that you could be doing more to defend yourself from rushes.
> >
> > Understood. However, I built up all 4 turrets and still lost to a Kinsano Hellbringer rush…
>
> Infantry rush can be beaten… just takes preparation or teamwork. Snipers are awesome early game. A mix of snipers with hellbringers and marines is formidable until main line units start showing up… then gotta mix in some Cyclops. Most players use infantry to a degree early on, so just expect that. Turrets alone cant stop a decent infantry push… nor should they, you have to mix in some infantry as well.

I’ve beaten them, but when there are about 20 squads of Hellbringers all using their “Y” ablity its over…

> 2535441687762024;18:
> > 2663289422510355;4:
> > > 2535441687762024;3:
> > > > 2533274847916490;2:
> > > > I think it’s awful to push both scouting units and infantry to T2. Those kinds of rushes are high risk/high reward. If you scout the enemy and find they’re amassing a infantry/scout army you can prepare for that. Place mines, build a turret, pump out some units of your own. However, depending on how you set up your base you’ll have an advantage or disadvantage. For example if you’re fast teching then you’ll most likely lose and that’s the risk you run, but you could also build a barracks and pump out suicide grunts/snipers. JR is tricky to deal with, but it’s going to be reexamined in the next update, sooo.
> > > >
> > > > My point is that you could be doing more to defend yourself from rushes.
> > >
> > > Understood. However, I built up all 4 turrets and still lost to a Kinsano Hellbringer rush…
> >
> > Infantry rush can be beaten… just takes preparation or teamwork. Snipers are awesome early game. A mix of snipers with hellbringers and marines is formidable until main line units start showing up… then gotta mix in some Cyclops. Most players use infantry to a degree early on, so just expect that. Turrets alone cant stop a decent infantry push… nor should they, you have to mix in some infantry as well.
>
> I’ve beaten them, but when there are about 20 squads of Hellbringers all using their “Y” ablity its over…

I was attempting to respond to your original position. 20 squads of Hellbringers using their ‘Y’ ability is no longer a rush, it is a spam and will not happen in the first 3-4 minutes of the game. They don’t get the ‘Y’ ability until tier 2. By then you should have more than T1 units and basic turrets to counter. My premise is that you need to always have units on the field, not to rely on turrets while teching. Units on the field beats tech more often than not.