Inconsistency with CSR Matchups

Games Other Halo
1

I am really starting to get fed up with this issue. Almost every other match I join, I’m either destroying players on the opposite team or getting my you know what handed to me and I am so sick of it.

Why can’t I have games where I am matched evenly against players who’s skill levels are identical to mine or at least near it? Rarely am I thrown into lobbies where I will end up with close games. It’s either I’m facing noobs or I’m facing pros, or so it seems.

If you would take a gander at my two most recent CTF matches you will know what I’m talking about.

CTF Game 1: 36k 1d, 3-1

CTF Game 2: 1k 10d, 0-5

These two matches prove how inconsistent CSR is with matching players up against me who have an equal skill level to mine.

The first CTF match was a complete joke. My team and I didn’t even need to play the objective. We were just farming kills because the other team had no coordination or strategy whatsoever. They were just terrible.

The second CTF match was unbelievable. I was playing on Simplex against a party of five including three members of a clan. They annihilated my team. I could barely spawn without three enemies grenade spamming and out BR-ing me. Before I knew it, five flags were captured and the game was over.

Now how does it make any sense that the game before I had gone 36-1 and the next game I went 1-10. It just frustrates me to death that I cannot have consistent matches with players of my skill level. Maybe it’s the fact that there are no search filters for lone wolves like me, and no filters for teams/parties like those I had faced in game 2.

Teams should be matched up against other teams. Randoms should be matched up against other randoms. Does anyone agree with me? I don’t want to be punished for playing Halo 4 alone any longer. Most of my friends have moved on from Halo and it really bums me out. Still, that isn’t my fault and is beyond my control.

Sorry for the rant. My frustrations with the matchmaking system have just reached a peak level and I really needed to vent.

Anyways I was wondering, how many of you are often put into situations similar to mine?

2

Yeah I don’t know if it’s because the system is new, but you only get mstched up with players close to you’re rank. I’m kind of on the other end of it than you, I didn’t play since December until CSR came out. And after about 10 games I was already at a 30. But since then I seem to get matched up with either seven players in the 1-20 range, or 7 in the 38-50 range. One game I’ll go 25-3 and the next game I feel like I’m with 7 other players who just went 25-3. It’s pretty annoying.

3

I stopped trying to figure out the way the system works. I have had similar experiences. I have been going back to reach, and playing other games, halo 4 tray time is losing ground to other games.

4

I must agree, ever since CSR came out, the same has been happening to me. It’s quite irritating.

5

> I stopped trying to figure out the way the system works. I have had similar experiences. I have been going back to reach, and playing other games, halo 4 tray time is losing ground to other games.

Yeah I went back and played Reach for a bit and it was surprisingly fun. There is so much more variety in its maps and game types compared to Halo 4.

6

> Yeah I don’t know if it’s because the system is new, but you only get mstched up with players close to you’re rank. I’m kind of on the other end of it than you, I didn’t play since December until CSR came out. And after about 10 games I was already at a 30. But since then I seem to get matched up with either seven players in the 1-20 range, or 7 in the 38-50 range. One game I’ll go 25-3 and the next game I feel like I’m with 7 other players who just went 25-3. It’s pretty annoying.

No, the system is simply not strict enough. 343 still has the idea of making the game more accessible to newer players (Making it more like other games) is the best idea of bringing players to the franchise.

It’s just there to soothe the Halo fans, not for it’s functionality to act as an actuall ranking system.

7

from what I have read on these forums I don’t think CSR is used at all in matchmaking, it’s done based on true skill. CSR is simply for looks on a website and irrelevant to everything except bragging rights. I heard they reset everybodys true skill when CSR came out so that may partly explain why matchups got worse all the sudden and over time as true skill gets settled back in matchups will be better assuming there are enough players to match you up with a close skill player.

8

> from what I have read on these forums I don’t think CSR is used at all in matchmaking, it’s done based on true skill. CSR is simply for looks on a website and irrelevant to everything except bragging rights. I heard they reset everybodys true skill when CSR came out so that may partly explain why matchups got worse all the sudden and over time as true skill gets settled back in matchups will be better assuming there are enough players to match you up with a close skill player.

This is correct.

The reason for the lopsided matchups is that TrueSkill was reset when CSR was implemented, so the system has to relearn what everyone’s skill levels are. Since there are lots of poor players and fewer great players, it takes more time to sort out the high end.

9

I don’t get it either.

10

> from what I have read on these forums I don’t think CSR is used at all in matchmaking, it’s done based on true skill. CSR is simply for looks on a website and irrelevant to everything except bragging rights. I heard they reset everybodys true skill when CSR came out so that may partly explain why matchups got worse all the sudden and over time as true skill gets settled back in matchups will be better assuming there are enough players to match you up with a close skill player.

Inb4StarcraftusesELO

CSR represents True-skill. There are enough players, it’s just that 343 prefers “social games” and faster search times over games where the teams are equally skilled. There are always only 100 Grand Master in Star craft 2 - They are the top 100 players in the game. Grand Master are only allowed to meet and play against other Grand Masters, unless they play unranked, which means if they choose to play ranked they will mainly play against the same opponents over and over again, because there are only 20 players online at a time.

Halo 3’s True-skill only used about 100 games to find your rank. I doubt that Halo 4’s is that much different.

11

> True skill represents CSR. There are enough players, it’s just that 343 prefers “social games” and faster search times over games where the teams are equally skilled. There are always only 100 Grand Master in Star craft 2 - They are the top 100 players in the game. Grand Master are only allowed to meet and play against other Grand Masters, unless they play unranked, which means if they choose to play ranked they will mainly play against the same opponents over and over again because there are only about 20 players online at a time.

No. This is entirely incorrect. TrueSkill is a separate system, independent of 343i, that was invented and coded by Microsoft. TrueSkill Description

TrueSkill is used for matchmaking by many games on Xbox Live, not just Halo 4. CSR is a Halo-specific skill ranking mechanism and is not ever used for matchmaking.

12

> > True skill represents CSR. There are enough players, it’s just that 343 prefers “social games” and faster search times over games where the teams are equally skilled. There are always only 100 Grand Master in Star craft 2 - They are the top 100 players in the game. Grand Master are only allowed to meet and play against other Grand Masters, unless they play unranked, which means if they choose to play ranked they will mainly play against the same opponents over and over again because there are only about 20 players online at a time.
>
> No. This is entirely incorrect. TrueSkill is a separate system, independent of 343i, that was invented and coded by Microsoft. TrueSkill Description TrueSkill is used by many games on Xbox Live, not just Halo 4.
>
> CSR is a Halo-specific skill ranking mechanism and is not ever used for matchmaking.

I meant, CSR represents Trueskill.

Trueskill ensures you play with and against players of the same skill and CSR represents it, which is correct.

13

> > from what I have read on these forums I don’t think CSR is used at all in matchmaking, it’s done based on true skill. CSR is simply for looks on a website and irrelevant to everything except bragging rights. I heard they reset everybodys true skill when CSR came out so that may partly explain why matchups got worse all the sudden and over time as true skill gets settled back in matchups will be better assuming there are enough players to match you up with a close skill player.
>
> This is correct.
>
> The reason for the lopsided matchups is that TrueSkill was reset when CSR was implemented, so the system has to relearn what everyone’s skill levels are. Since there are lots of poor players and fewer great players, it takes more time to sort out the high end.

And how long is that supposed to take? It’s been nearly two months since our Trueskill has been reset. With a low population combined with that fact, wouldn’t you think that by now most of it has been balanced out?

14

the numbers of online players is too low to CSR be very accurate

15

> > > True skill represents CSR. There are enough players, it’s just that 343 prefers “social games” and faster search times over games where the teams are equally skilled. There are always only 100 Grand Master in Star craft 2 - They are the top 100 players in the game. Grand Master are only allowed to meet and play against other Grand Masters, unless they play unranked, which means if they choose to play ranked they will mainly play against the same opponents over and over again because there are only about 20 players online at a time.
> >
> > No. This is entirely incorrect. TrueSkill is a separate system, independent of 343i, that was invented and coded by Microsoft. TrueSkill Description TrueSkill is used by many games on Xbox Live, not just Halo 4.
> >
> > CSR is a Halo-specific skill ranking mechanism and is not ever used for matchmaking.
>
> I meant, CSR represents Trueskill.
>
> Trueskill ensures you play players with the same skill and CSR represents it, which is correct.

This may be true or it may be false, as 343i has never explicitly stated what it feeds the TrueSkill algorithm.

If, for the W/L playlists, they feed TrueSkill only W/L information, then CSR will eventually mirror TrueSkill. If they feed it individual performances, however, then CSR and TrueSkill will represent different things.

If, for the individual playlists, they feed TrueSkill the points earned by each player, then individual CSR will eventually mirror TrueSkill. If, however, they feed it something else (like kills only - like the match score), then CSR and TrueSkill will represent different things.

To really know if they are identical, we would need to be told both what the game feeds TrueSkill and also be given a description of the CSR algorithm to see if they use the information in the same way.

One of the problems with TrueSkill in matchmaking for teams is that it tries to match the sum of the TrueSkill values for each team. So these teams would be identical to TrueSkill (using a 1 - 50 scale for the TrueSkill values):

Team 1:
32
1
1
1

Team 2:

10
9
5
11

Since someone with a TrueSkill of 32 is likely to ravage a team of 10s, this may end up being a very lopsided match. Guests contribute to this problem, as some assumption has to be made about the TrueSkill values for the guests. I don’t know exactly how this is handled. But you can see, for example, if the system treats guests as a 1, that our TrueSkill 32 guy may be playing split screen with a bunch of other TrueSkill 32 guys . . . but the system doesn’t know it. So it matches them with our hapless TrueSkill 10 guys. Boom.

16

> > > from what I have read on these forums I don’t think CSR is used at all in matchmaking, it’s done based on true skill. CSR is simply for looks on a website and irrelevant to everything except bragging rights. I heard they reset everybodys true skill when CSR came out so that may partly explain why matchups got worse all the sudden and over time as true skill gets settled back in matchups will be better assuming there are enough players to match you up with a close skill player.
> >
> > This is correct. Just to copy myself:
> >
> > The reason for the lopsided matchups is that TrueSkill was reset when CSR was implemented, so the system has to relearn what everyone’s skill levels are. Since there are lots of poor players and fewer great players, it takes more time to sort out the high end.
>
> And how long is that supposed to take? It’s been nearly two months since our Trueskill has been reset. With a low population combined with that fact, wouldn’t you think that by now most of it has been balanced out?

It IS balanced out, and there are enough players.

"No, the system is simply not strict enough. 343 still has the idea of making the game more accessible to newer players (Making it more like other games) is the best idea of bringing players to the franchise.

It’s just there to soothe the Halo fans, not for it’s functionality to act as an actuall ranking system."

Another big reason for why True-skill is not strict, is because it takes longer time to find players of equal skill, than finding any player. They are thinking you prefer to find a game as fast as possible.

17

> > > > True skill represents CSR. There are enough players, it’s just that 343 prefers “social games” and faster search times over games where the teams are equally skilled. There are always only 100 Grand Master in Star craft 2 - They are the top 100 players in the game. Grand Master are only allowed to meet and play against other Grand Masters, unless they play unranked, which means if they choose to play ranked they will mainly play against the same opponents over and over again because there are only about 20 players online at a time.
> > >
> > > No. This is entirely incorrect. TrueSkill is a separate system, independent of 343i, that was invented and coded by Microsoft. TrueSkill Description TrueSkill is used by many games on Xbox Live, not just Halo 4.
> > >
> > > CSR is a Halo-specific skill ranking mechanism and is not ever used for matchmaking.
> >
> > I meant, CSR represents Trueskill.
> >
> > Trueskill ensures you play players with the same skill and CSR represents it, which is correct.
>
> This may be true or it may be false, as 343i has never explicitly stated what it feeds the TrueSkill algorithm.
>
> If, for the W/L playlists, they feed TrueSkill only W/L information, then CSR will eventually mirror TrueSkill. If they feed it individual performances, however, then CSR and TrueSkill will represent different things.
>
> If, for the individual playlists, they feed TrueSkill the points earned by each player, then individual CSR will eventually mirror TrueSkill. If, however, they feed it something else (like kills only - like the match score), then CSR and TrueSkill will represent different things.
>
> To really know if they are identical, we would need to be told both what the game feeds TrueSkill and also be given a description of the CSR algorithm to see if they use the information in the same way.
>
> One of the problems with TrueSkill in matchmaking for teams is that it tries to match the sum of the TrueSkill values for each team. So these teams would be identical to TrueSkill (using a 1 - 50 scale for the TrueSkill values):
>
> Team 1:
> 32
> 1
> 1
> 1
>
> Team 2:
>
> 10
> 9
> 5
> 11
>
> Since someone with a TrueSkill of 32 is likely to ravage a team of 10s, this may end up being a very lopsided match. Guests contribute to this problem, as some assumption has to be made about the TrueSkill values for the guests. I don’t know exactly how this is handled. But you can see, for example, if the system treats guests as a 1, that our TrueSkill 32 guy may be playing split screen with a bunch of other TrueSkill 32 guys . . . but the system doesn’t know it. So it matches them with our hapless TrueSkill 10 guys. Boom.

http://thecontrolleronline.com/2013/04/competitive-skill-rank-comes-to-halo-4-on-monday/

Here’s a mini guide to how Trueskill works.

"This is a mini-guide based on the original true-skill explanation of El Kafungus of Bungie.net. His original explanation may be accessed here: http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=14414600
What is the trueskill system and how does it work?
Well, the trueskill system is a skill rating system that is used for many games on XBox Live and more than likely PC. If you haven’t already guessed, the reason I bring it up is because Halo 3 uses the trueskill system.
The trueskill system works on two basic valus, your uncertainty value (sigma) and your actual skill (mu). I will refer to them as sigma and mu from now on.
Your sigma is basically how the game accounts for luck; it is the numerical representation of what your skill could be. Play consistently for a low sigma, or play inconsistently for a high sigma.
Your mu is the actual representation of your skill. Win games to raise it, lose games to lower it.
The mathematical relation of mu and sigma is (mu) - k(sigma) where k is a constant assigned by the developers. This means that your skill is actually higher than the number you see, but the game does not give you the benefit of the doubt."

18

> > > > from what I have read on these forums I don’t think CSR is used at all in matchmaking, it’s done based on true skill. CSR is simply for looks on a website and irrelevant to everything except bragging rights. I heard they reset everybodys true skill when CSR came out so that may partly explain why matchups got worse all the sudden and over time as true skill gets settled back in matchups will be better assuming there are enough players to match you up with a close skill player.
> > >
> > > This is correct.
> > >
> > > The reason for the lopsided matchups is that TrueSkill was reset when CSR was implemented, so the system has to relearn what everyone’s skill levels are. Since there are lots of poor players and fewer great players, it takes more time to sort out the high end.
> >
> > And how long is that supposed to take? It’s been nearly two months since our Trueskill has been reset. With a low population combined with that fact, wouldn’t you think that by now most of it has been balanced out?
>
> It IS balanced out.
>
> “No, the system is simply not strict enough. 343 still has the idea of making the game more accessible to newer players (Making it more like other games) is the best idea of bringing players to the franchise.
>
> It’s just there to soothe the Halo fans, not for it’s functionality to act as an actuall ranking system.”
>
> One of the biggest reasons for why True-skill is not strict, is because it takes longer time to find players of equal skill, than finding any player. They are thinking you prefer to find a game as fast as possible.

Well this is why there should have been custom search filters. Assuming that everyone wants to find a game quickly rather than finding a quality equal skilled match for everyone that takes a little longer to search for is just wrong imo.

19

is there a way to see what your trueskill is ?

20

> is there a way to see what your trueskill is ?

I don’t think so. It’s more of an invisible system that tracks the skill of a player from game to game.