Inconsistency in possible return of Flood?

The Forerunner novels seem to imply the eventual return of the Flood, particularly in this quote, where the Timeless One talks about the Flood returning when humanity is ripe for testing.

“Through long study. The decision is final. Humans will replace you. Humans will be tested next.”
“It is the way of those who seek out the truth of the Mantle. <mark>Humans will rise again in arrogance and defiance. The Flood will return when they are ripe -and bring them unity.”</mark>
“Misery is sweetness. Forerunners will fail as you have failed before. Humans will rise. Whether they will also fail has not been decided.”
“We are the Flood. There is no difference. Until all space and time are rolled up and life is crushed in the folds … no end to war, grief, or pain. In a hundred and one thousand centuries … unity again, and wisdom. Until then -sweetness.”

But what makes us ripe for testing? When the forerunners were “tested” by the Flood, they’d had control over millions of worlds and had technology far superior to ours in 2559. So shouldn’t the Flood come back when we’re somewhere around as powerful as we were when we originally fought the Forerunners? Even if we acquired the Forerunner knowledge stored at the Absolute Record, our population would still be minuscule compared to that of the Forerunners when they faced the Flood.

It just doesn’t add up in my head that the Flood should attack us now, when- even if our technology suddenly leapt forward by leaps and bounds- our population is so small. What do you guys think?

Were also being accelerated down the path of knowledge far quicker than they were in the past. The librarian seems intent on giving us all the knowledge we need as soon as possible. It took the forerunners millions of years to learn what humanity apparently now knows (assuming that the info contained in the forerunners novels is known by contemporary humanity, as is implied).

A lone human soldier also just beat the forerunners greatest warrior and his army. That can definitely be viewed as “arrogantly powerful” by outside parties, and may play a part in the precursors decision to return. Especially if you consider that the Didact was basically a flood thrall.

the flood are essentially the original party crashers so they are just going to show up at sometime or another without proper invitations

But shouldn’t our population be a little more robust? I feel like there isn’t even that much for the Flood to dominate/absorb at this point in time, even if we have the tech.

I kindof hope they do come back :stuck_out_tongue:

> But shouldn’t our population be a little more robust? I feel like there isn’t even that much for the Flood to dominate/absorb at this point in time, even if we have the tech.

Read silentium, they have a big speech there. Consuming and propogating more flood is not their objective. Its pretty just to ensure all life in the universe never rises up against their creators again.

Humans were already tested, they already defeated the flood so they are now the bearers of the mantle

> > But shouldn’t our population be a little more robust? I feel like there isn’t even that much for the Flood to dominate/absorb at this point in time, even if we have the tech.
>
> Read silentium, they have a big speech there. Consuming and propogating more flood is not their objective. Its pretty just to ensure all life in the universe never rises up against their creators again.

Isn’t part of their goal to just wreak havoc and general destruction, though? I’d figure that more lives to consume = more misery and happier Precursors. Otherwise what you said seems to make sense to me.

But a sufficiently large population, especially forerunner scale, means a considerable number of years of prosperity and happyness.

Its possible the flood just chose an arbitrary time, or are trying to balance a certain ratio of population and power.

Right now is when humanity has hope and pride, making them ‘ripe’ to terrorize. Fear is always greatest if the subject thinks they have a hope before it is snatched away.

I guess my interpretation of the quote is that general life is miserable, so that even when the Flood isn’t around, the growth pains of a civilisation (namely war, in our case) does the Flood’s job in its absence. So that allowing humanity to grow to a point of prosperity only to crush it harder is a greater success than destroying us when we’re small but powerful (which is where we seem to headed).

I’d wager you’re probably right, though, just because Halo is largely Halo because of the Master Chief, and fighting the Flood again in a few thousand years without him would be lame lol. UNLESS 343 went all Captain America on us and shoved Chief into cryo for a few centuries or millenia… But I suppose that would be a tad cliched heh.

A time jump will required eventually if 343i want to simultaneously maintain the threat level of the Flood whilst giving their characters even a slim chance of surviving in a believable way. If they don’t do it, then 343i can only either have the Flood encounters from here on out as small and isolated events that current humanity could deal with (Similar to what we faced in Halo Wars, Halo 2 and Halo 3, basically), or respect the scale of the Flood threat as implied by Silentium resulting in the deaths of everyone via the Flood or Halo array activation.

The Flood invasion, as per implied by Silentium, will strike on a galactic scale and hence the defense of the galaxy will likewise have to be proportional, which is quite a number of years beyond current humanity. Unless of course we get some Gears of War 3 style Dues Ex Machina, which would be the height of laziness imo.

> Humans were already tested, they already defeated the flood so they are now the bearers of the mantle

Humans didn’t defeat the Flood.

> > Humans were already tested, they already defeated the flood so they are now the bearers of the mantle
>
> Humans didn’t defeat the Flood.

This.

Humanity only pushed the Flood away and bought themselves more time in the Galaxy. Humanity and the remnants of the now broken Covenant may believe the Flood is eradicated, but the Flood still exists, both beyond our Galaxy and in it.

What you need to realize is that, in the original trilogy, we only faced a small contamination. This contamination was secluded to certain areas, of which were destroyed, cleansed or eradicated by Installation 04 (B) firing. We have faced nothing on the scale of what resulted in the first firing of the Halo arrays and the reseeding of the Galaxy. So in the end, we have only won a battle, not the war.

All the lore is going to meet up at a point, but the big clash of the Galaxy won’t come in Halo 5: Guardians, not unless it performs an amazing time-jump. Although, that is highly improbable.

> > > Humans were already tested, they already defeated the flood so they are now the bearers of the mantle
> >
> > Humans didn’t defeat the Flood.
>
> This.
>
> Humanity only pushed the Flood away and bought themselves more time in the Galaxy. Humanity and the remnants of the now broken Covenant may believe the Flood is eradicated, but the Flood still exists, both beyond our Galaxy and in it.
>
> What you need to realize is that, in the original trilogy, we only faced a small contamination. This contamination was secluded to certain areas, of which were destroyed, cleansed or eradicated by Installation 04 (B) firing. We have faced nothing on the scale of what resulted in the first firing of the Halo arrays and the reseeding of the Galaxy. So in the end, we have only won a battle, not the war.
>
> All the lore is going to meet up at a point, but the big clash of the Galaxy won’t come in Halo 5: Guardians, not unless it performs an amazing time-jump. Although, that is highly improbable.

Not to mention the fact that the “weapon” the ancient humans had against the Flood wasn’t a real weapon. The Flood chose to withdraw and to not infect them.

> A time jump will required eventually if 343i want to simultaneously maintain the threat level of the Flood whilst giving their characters even a slim chance of surviving in a believable way. If they don’t do it, then 343i can only either have the Flood encounters from here on out as small and isolated events that current humanity could deal with (Similar to what we faced in Halo Wars, Halo 2 and Halo 3, basically), or respect the scale of the Flood threat as implied by Silentium resulting in the deaths of everyone via the Flood or Halo array activation.
>
> The Flood invasion, as per implied by Silentium, will strike on a galactic scale and hence the defense of the galaxy will likewise have to be proportional, which is quite a number of years beyond current humanity. Unless of course we get some Gears of War 3 style Dues Ex Machina, which would be the height of laziness imo.

It’s not a matter of technology; short of something like time travel or reality-warping weaponry, no amount of sufficiently advanced technology can defeat the Flood once they get a grip on you, since now they also have your sufficiently advanced technology, and the difference is negligible. You either wipe them out in their infancy, or you’re Flood-chow. Having a time-jump to a more advanced time would be meaningless, the Precursors seem willing to test us rather than just outright destroy us, which is what they did with the Forerunners. So it isn’t necessarily about technology, it’s about worth.

Because the fact of the matter is, the only way the Flood has ever been defeated really is through some kind of a Deus Ex Machina win-button plot device (Halo).

> > > > Humans were already tested, they already defeated the flood so they are now the bearers of the mantle
> > >
> > > Humans didn’t defeat the Flood.
> >
> > This.
> >
> > Humanity only pushed the Flood away and bought themselves more time in the Galaxy. Humanity and the remnants of the now broken Covenant may believe the Flood is eradicated, but the Flood still exists, both beyond our Galaxy and in it.
> >
> > What you need to realize is that, in the original trilogy, we only faced a small contamination. This contamination was secluded to certain areas, of which were destroyed, cleansed or eradicated by Installation 04 (B) firing. We have faced nothing on the scale of what resulted in the first firing of the Halo arrays and the reseeding of the Galaxy. So in the end, we have only won a battle, not the war.
> >
> > All the lore is going to meet up at a point, but the big clash of the Galaxy won’t come in Halo 5: Guardians, not unless it performs an amazing time-jump. Although, that is highly improbable.
>
> Not to mention the fact that the “weapon” the ancient humans had against the Flood wasn’t a real weapon. The Flood chose to withdraw and to not infect them.

Modern Humanity at least knows they are a threat and knows to try and train for it. Wargames, and the Spartan Assault simulation.

> > Humans were already tested, they already defeated the flood so they are now the bearers of the mantle
>
> Humans didn’t defeat the Flood.

I wouldn’t put it past the Flood to have allowed themselves to be “defeated” on the Lesser Ark in order to give 'Manity false leads and make them even more unprepared/distracted.

> > A time jump will required eventually if 343i want to simultaneously maintain the threat level of the Flood whilst giving their characters even a slim chance of surviving in a believable way. If they don’t do it, then 343i can only either have the Flood encounters from here on out as small and isolated events that current humanity could deal with (Similar to what we faced in Halo Wars, Halo 2 and Halo 3, basically), or respect the scale of the Flood threat as implied by Silentium resulting in the deaths of everyone via the Flood or Halo array activation.
> >
> > The Flood invasion, as per implied by Silentium, will strike on a galactic scale and hence the defense of the galaxy will likewise have to be proportional, which is quite a number of years beyond current humanity. Unless of course we get some Gears of War 3 style Dues Ex Machina, which would be the height of laziness imo.
>
> It’s not a matter of technology; short of something like time travel or reality-warping weaponry, no amount of sufficiently advanced technology can defeat the Flood once they get a grip on you, since now they also have your sufficiently advanced technology, and the difference is negligible. You either wipe them out in their infancy, or you’re Flood-chow. Having a time-jump to a more advanced time would be meaningless, the Precursors seem willing to test us rather than just outright destroy us, which is what they did with the Forerunners. So it isn’t necessarily about technology, it’s about worth.
>
> Because the fact of the matter is, the only way the Flood has ever been defeated really is through some kind of a Deus Ex Machina win-button plot device (Halo).

It’s not the technology that’s important.

Wiping the Flood out in its infancy is important, and practically the only effective means of fighting it. This I agree with. The problem with the UNSC though is resources and influence, not necessarily technology. It’s far too small to possess the necessary reach and extent, as well as manpower and resources, to combat the Flood in its infancy if it strikes multiple points of the galaxy at once. The UNSC also has no way of watching for Flood incursions into parts of the galaxy because its intelligence network is confined to its own little small portion of the Orion Arm. If the Flood struck the opposite side of the galaxy in 2560, for example, and started feeding on some other unknown Tier 3 species, who out of the UNSC and Covenant would be guaranteed to know before the thing has already expanded far beyond the containment capabilities of the UNSC and Covenant? What would that knowledge matter anyway when the opposite end of the galaxy is weeks away for even the Covenant?

Advanced technology can be a liability if the Flood gets it, and really all you want to do is deny starships (Especially FTL capable ones), but it also affords a greater degree of time within which you can call a Flood threat “in its infancy”. The options that were open to the UNSC during Halo 3 when trying to deal with the Flood were much fewer and much less useful and reliable than the options that the Sangheili had to deal with it. The UNSC right now has little to nothing in the way of dealing with even a small contamination, as Rtas put it. It means that any Flood threat will have to be dealt with instantaneously by the UNSC before it passes the point where the UNSC can no longer destroy it, and that ain’t going to happen with the UNSC’s non-existent Flood detection network throughout the rest of the galaxy and its slow FTL speeds (Relative to crossing interstellar distances in the time frames required to stop a Flood infestation at their technological level).

The UNSC will have to advance to the point of being able to deploy ships to anywhere in the galaxy within days, thus will require very advanced FTL capabilities beyond what it currently has. It will have to advance its offensive and defensive capabilities so that it can handle larger infestations than ones previously encountered by it, such as by upgrading its weapons from ballistics to plasma based, especially on their starships so that glassing becomes an option when all else fails. Shields would be very useful as well, especially for their soldiers. It will have to have the economy, industry and population to support all of this, and to support being able to dispatch many fleets as required to infected sites. Most importantly, it will have to have some kind of awareness of the galaxy at large so that it knows when and where the Flood have appeared.

That is not going to happen in a couple of decades.

> Because the fact of the matter is, the only way the Flood has ever been defeated really is through some kind of a Deus Ex Machina win-button plot device (Halo).

Which is why it should be avoided before the third instance. With the first one it killed everything in the galaxy, and I think that the Dues Ex Machina there was not the Halo Array but the Conservation Measures. The UNSC, again, doesn’t have the capability to prepare something like a conservation measure, thus the Halo Array will kill everyone and finish life off in the galaxy for millions of years, or some Dues Ex will be invoked where only the Flood gets killed but no one else, like Gears of War 3’s anti-Lambent weapon.

You’re forgetting that the Flood’s power comes from what it infects. Technological advancement is meaningless; the Flood will absorb what you know and turn whatever weaponry you have developed against you. In fact, it could be argued that the more advanced your civilization is, the more vulnerable you are, as a high population count makes the Flood’s strategy of overwhelming through sheer numbers more effective. I’d say the UNSC is in an excellent position, provided it doesn’t have any moral qualms about using nuclear weapons. Any Flood outbreak can be nipped in the bud.

> > > > > Humans were already tested, they already defeated the flood so they are now the bearers of the mantle
> > > >
> > > > Humans didn’t defeat the Flood.
> > >
> > > This.
> > >
> > > Humanity only pushed the Flood away and bought themselves more time in the Galaxy. Humanity and the remnants of the now broken Covenant may believe the Flood is eradicated, but the Flood still exists, both beyond our Galaxy and in it.
> > >
> > > What you need to realize is that, in the original trilogy, we only faced a small contamination. This contamination was secluded to certain areas, of which were destroyed, cleansed or eradicated by Installation 04 (B) firing. We have faced nothing on the scale of what resulted in the first firing of the Halo arrays and the reseeding of the Galaxy. So in the end, we have only won a battle, not the war.
> > >
> > > All the lore is going to meet up at a point, but the big clash of the Galaxy won’t come in Halo 5: Guardians, not unless it performs an amazing time-jump. Although, that is highly improbable.
> >
> > Not to mention the fact that the “weapon” the ancient humans had against the Flood wasn’t a real weapon. The Flood chose to withdraw and to not infect them.
>
> Modern Humanity at least knows they are a threat and knows to try and train for it. Wargames, and the Spartan Assault simulation.

Once again, these~