The Prometheans as an enemy class received a rather mixed reception in Halo 4. On one hand, they were praised for being fresh and new, and on the other they were accused of being boring bullet-sponges. Since it’s likely that they’ll return in Halo 5 given their survival after the destruction of Requiem and the appearance of the Light Rifle in the Halo 5 multiplayer beta, how would you improve them? Personally, I’d opt to:
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Increase their diversity. It’s pretty dull having only three types with the same strategies. This could include new types such as a gargantuan type that parallels the hunters/Flood tank forms. Or maybe members of the the Covenant Remnant could be composed so that we could see Elite, Brute and Grunt variants? Furthermore, possessing a single weapon should not equate to an entire class.
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Give them more strategies. The standard teleportation, shields and revival act wears a bit thin. Introduce new types that can cloak themselves, take out vehicles or new melee specialist? Anything to make them appear more lively.
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Improve their weapon pool and give them vehicles. Promethean weapons are too derivative of UNSC weapons. Instead, they should be a combination of the two with their own unique feel. There was an excuse for them not having vehicles on Requiem given their capacity to teleport. But they probably won’t have access to the teleporation grids of alien worlds. This could be a good opportunity to give them their own vehicles. Perhaps War Sphinxes!
Story-wise, the concept of the Prometheans never made much sense to me. They have to be the weakest machines the Forerunners used against the Flood. The fact that they were created from composed individuals was supposed to make them “special” somehow, but there is nothing exceptional about them in relation to the Forerunners’ other technology. The Didact would’ve been better off with an army of Onyx Sentinels. At least the Spartans actually had trouble fighting them.
Anyway, I agree with your points. All Promethean weapons need to be either Tier 2 or power weapons, nothing less. They need to play smarter and have more types.
Fighting promethians in Halo 4 just felt dull. It was nothing compared to the covenant, and the reason for that is simply because the promethians were machines, and fighting machines are always boring. Fighting elites is really entertaining because they are alive, and feel pain, where as machines don’t. When elites roar in anger or when they’re shields go down and they dive to cover (not teleport) its satisfying knowing you killed something that was once alive, wheres when you fight promethians you are just making them disappear from you sight basically. a
In H5, they should make the promethians an ally to the UNSC, and you have to fight an army of forerunners that are alive.
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> Fighting promethians in Halo 4 just felt dull. It was nothing compared to the covenant, and the reason for that is simply because the promethians were machines, and fighting machines are always boring. Fighting elites is really entertaining because they are alive, and feel pain, where as machines don’t. When elites roar in anger or when they’re shields go down and they dive to cover (not teleport) its satisfying knowing you killed something that was once alive, wheres when you fight promethians you are just making them disappear from you sight basically. a
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> In H5, they should make the promethians an ally to the UNSC, and you have to fight an army of forerunners that are alive.
id find that more interesting, the promethians realize where they came from (earth) start fighting back etc, maybe a shieldworld that has forerunners that are alive, make them the big enemy and humanity, the promethians, and the elites join forces!
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> Fighting promethians in Halo 4 just felt dull. It was nothing compared to the covenant, and the reason for that is simply because the promethians were machines, and fighting machines are always boring. Fighting elites is really entertaining because they are alive, and feel pain, where as machines don’t. When elites roar in anger or when they’re shields go down and they dive to cover (not teleport) its satisfying knowing you killed something that was once alive, wheres when you fight promethians you are just making them disappear from you sight basically. a
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> In H5, they should make the promethians an ally to the UNSC, and you have to fight an army of forerunners that are alive.
I disagree. Mechanical enemies aren’t a problem; some can be really fun. For example, the Sentinels and Enforcers (from Halo 2) were really fun to destroy. The problem with the Prometheans is that they’re really stagnant and dull as an enemy class in and of themselves. They’re essentially bullet-sponge that lack strategy and variation.
They could be made into interesting enemies since they originated from organic beings, and their behaviour isn’t solely robotic. They show animalistic growls growls/screeches and have a degree of self-preservation. If 343 Industries could give them behaviour of organic beings and the ‘cold’ lethality of machines, they could make really interesting opponents.
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In lore, just one Knight can down a cruiser filled with Flood!!
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Remember, Prometheans include Crawlers and Watchers too. But yes, I agree that Knights should have a few more flavours, even if they’re just subtle variations. Where the Covenant has the weak but specific archetype enemy units (and of course there’s Crawlers and Watchers), Knights should be the juggernauts of those archetypes.
I don’t think we can really mix up the powerlevels too much from what the Knights have but I do believe they can use their abilities and weapons more effectively than Halo4’s near identical across the board versions. Ones that carry two Watchers, Battlewagons and Commanders mixing up their weapons and “abilities” a bit more than cookie cutter and then of course more specific patterns for AI and the weapons they carry.
LR and BiRi users would play keep away nearly all the time while the short ranged weapon users would rush more. Cover and elevation would be teleported to more often for rangers while close combatants would use theirs as the means to attack and recover.
When there are multiple units, that is where I would hope the slightly more variation in weapon and ability use would become apparent. Depending on the player’s actions, a battle could unfold very differently due to taking out the rangers or CQB’s first.
If the above vagueness was intended for Halo4, the 360 unfortunately did not show it well. The highest ranking Knight should not be the last to act, it should be the first. Where Brutes and Elites would send their henchman in to soften the player and expend their ammo, Knights should send in the Battlewagon full on while the supporting Knights do just that, support the Battlewagon using their abilities to their fullest.
As mentioned above, a single Knight can down a Flood infested cruiser, therefore Knights should not show the same tactics as those that fight for food, fun and honour. Knights know no fear and should act as the weapons they are intended to be.
> In lore, just one Knight can down a cruiser filled with Flood!!
Also in lore, one Spartan can fight through an army of Prometheans. It just doesn’t add up. The Prometheans are made out to be these exceptional killing machines when they are in actuality not. The Onyx Sentinels are by far superior.
Plus, the Prometheans’ strategy in destroying cruisers seemed to be to head straight for the core and blow it up. That’s hardly noteworthy when Chief was able to do the same thing with High Charity.
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> > In lore, just one Knight can down a cruiser filled with Flood!!
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> Also in lore, one Spartan can fight through an army of Prometheans. It just doesn’t add up. The Prometheans are made out to be these exceptional killing machines when they are in actuality not. The Onyx Sentinels are by far superior.
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> Plus, the Prometheans’ strategy in destroying cruisers seemed to be to head straight for the core and blow it up. That’s hardly noteworthy when Chief was able to do the same thing with High Charity.
There’s a stark difference between lore and gameplay. Things have to be toned down so that the gameplay appears balanced and consistent. Of course the Prometheans are most likely much stronger in the lore than they’re presented in the games, as with their weaponry. And to be fair, we’ve never encountered an Onyx Sentinel in the Halo games. They would most likely be toned down as well if they were placed within a Halo game.
Besides, I think the Promtheans were specifically created for engagements with the Flood, not humanity and non-Flood races. They’re pretty devastating against Flood Combat forms when you consider the fact that their bodies disintegrate and their weapons have the capacity to disintegrate corpses. That’s a useful advantage against the Flood. However, they’re still at risk of the Logic Plague.
I think people give the prometheans a bit too much flak. You compare them to Covenant, but we have been working on the Covenant sinse 2001. Prometheans are noticeably much younger in design. Let it grow and see how things go.
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> > > In lore, just one Knight can down a cruiser filled with Flood!!
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> > Also in lore, one Spartan can fight through an army of Prometheans. It just doesn’t add up. The Prometheans are made out to be these exceptional killing machines when they are in actuality not. The Onyx Sentinels are by far superior.
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> > Plus, the Prometheans’ strategy in destroying cruisers seemed to be to head straight for the core and blow it up. That’s hardly noteworthy when Chief was able to do the same thing with High Charity.
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> There’s a stark difference between lore and gameplay. Things have to be toned down so that the gameplay appears balanced and consistent. Of course the Prometheans are most likely much stronger in the lore than they’re presented in the games, as with their weaponry. And to be fair, we’ve never encountered an Onyx Sentinel in the Halo games. They would most likely be toned down as well if they were placed within a Halo game.
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> Besides, I think the Promtheans were specifically created for engagements with the Flood, not humanity and non-Flood races. They’re pretty devastating against Flood Combat forms when you consider the fact that their bodies disintegrate and their weapons have the capacity to disintegrate corpses. That’s a useful advantage against the Flood. However, they’re still at risk of the Logic Plague.
Perhaps, but my problem is that they are portrayed in lore as these devastating warrior machines when all evidence points to that being false. In Ghosts of Onyx for instance, the Spartans had to really strategize to take down just three Sentinels. A lot of the time their only options were to run and hide. In the Halo 4 cutscenes, the Spartans can just fight through the Prometheans just like any other opponent. I find it hard to believe that the mechanical Prometheans were more effective than their real-life counterparts. Prometheans in their time had combat skins up to at least Class-12 - far superior to any Spartan. But these mechanical versions are defeated by the Spartans fairly easily. Just doesn’t make much sense.
The Prometheans should be able to shape-shift into different forms. For example, two Knights can combine into a Hunter-sized creature. And a Knight can reform and combine into a Forerunner light-bike, which would allow Forerunner vehicles in Halo 5. If you hit the weak spot in the vehicle and killed the Knight, you can ride the vehicle, and it forms around your body.
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> The Prometheans should be able to shape-shift into different forms. For example, two Knights can combine into a Hunter-sized creature. And a Knight can reform and combine into a Forerunner light-bike, which would allow Forerunner vehicles in Halo 5. If you hit the weak spot in the vehicle and killed the Knight, you can ride the vehicle, and it forms around your body.
That sounds…really cool.
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> The Prometheans should be able to shape-shift into different forms. For example, two Knights can combine into a Hunter-sized creature. And a Knight can reform and combine into a Forerunner light-bike, which would allow Forerunner vehicles in Halo 5. If you hit the weak spot in the vehicle and killed the Knight, you can ride the vehicle, and it forms around your body.
That does sound pretty awesome!
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While I agree the S.OPS cutscenes sometime offer little sense… Or that they give the good guys way too powerful plot armour and/or weapons… There’s no such thing as “just” an Onyx Sentinel.
Those things are much more powerful than the Sentinels we’ve faced in game, the BIG ones included, and they come equipped with impenetrable shields. The strategies to take down those Sentinels were far from obvious or easy to execute. In game we’d have to somehow drop a tank on one… Instead of shooting it with said tank 
… Yes Palmer’s M6 is funny because it can seemingly down a Knight in a just a few shots BUT doesn’t kill Halsey from hydrostatic shock (explosive rounds don’t overpenetrate).
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> . And a Knight can reform and combine into a Forerunner light-bike, which would allow Forerunner vehicles in Halo 5. If you hit the weak spot in the vehicle and killed the Knight, you can ride the vehicle, and it forms around your body.
Not sure I can subscribe to this… Teleporting and/or flying beings transform to allow for more flight… It reminds me too much of 80’s Transformers, or the ending of Transformers4.
We can still have Forerunner vehicles (which I imagine manifesting from hardlight stations of sorts) and I really do dig the Gogeta Knights (it furthers what is started with the Watchers)… But transforming into a vehicle just to be ridden seems off for the intent of the Knights.
(Having said that, Hunters that transform into vehicles to be ridden by Elites/whomever… OK, that feels like it fits into the unit type).
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> The Prometheans should be able to shape-shift into different forms. For example, two Knights can combine into a Hunter-sized creature. And a Knight can reform and combine into a Forerunner light-bike, which would allow Forerunner vehicles in Halo 5. If you hit the weak spot in the vehicle and killed the Knight, you can ride the vehicle, and it forms around your body.
Isn’t the knight the vehicle in this case? If you kill the knight, wouldn’t it dissolve?
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> While I agree the S.OPS cutscenes sometime offer little sense… Or that they give the good guys way too powerful plot armour and/or weapons… There’s no such thing as “just” an Onyx Sentinel.
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> Those things are much more powerful than the Sentinels we’ve faced in game, the BIG ones included, and they come equipped with impenetrable shields. The strategies to take down those Sentinels were far from obvious or easy to execute. In game we’d have to somehow drop a tank on one… Instead of shooting it with said tank
> … Yes Palmer’s M6 is funny because it can seemingly down a Knight in a just a few shots BUT doesn’t kill Halsey from hydrostatic shock (explosive rounds don’t overpenetrate).
No doubt the SpOps cutscenes have taken some reality-bending liberties, but the canonical fact is still that Master Chief and the other Spartans were able to fight through them. I can’t imagine they’d be able to do the same with the living Prometheans in their combat skins.
Now of course I know that there have to be nerfs for gameplay purposes, but lore-wise the Prometheans make little practical sense.
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> > While I agree the S.OPS cutscenes sometime offer little sense… Or that they give the good guys way too powerful plot armour and/or weapons… There’s no such thing as “just” an Onyx Sentinel.
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> > Those things are much more powerful than the Sentinels we’ve faced in game, the BIG ones included, and they come equipped with impenetrable shields. The strategies to take down those Sentinels were far from obvious or easy to execute. In game we’d have to somehow drop a tank on one… Instead of shooting it with said tank
> > … Yes Palmer’s M6 is funny because it can seemingly down a Knight in a just a few shots BUT doesn’t kill Halsey from hydrostatic shock (explosive rounds don’t overpenetrate).
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> No doubt the SpOps cutscenes have taken some reality-bending liberties, but the canonical fact is still that Master Chief and the other Spartans were able to fight through them. I can’t imagine they’d be able to do the same with the living Prometheans in their combat skins.
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> Now of course I know that there have to be nerfs for gameplay purposes, but lore-wise the Prometheans make little practical sense.
Not sure how. They were meant to fight Flood because of their inability to be infected while also serving as a giant -Yoink- you to the humans by the didact. If the Prometheans could have been built by more moral means, the forerunners may not have needed to fire the halo rings in the first place.
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> No doubt the SpOps cutscenes have taken some reality-bending liberties, but the canonical fact is still that Master Chief and the other Spartans were able to fight through them. I can’t imagine they’d be able to do the same with the living Prometheans in their combat skins.
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> Now of course I know that there have to be nerfs for gameplay purposes, but lore-wise the Prometheans make little practical sense.
The Chief and Blue Team fought through them. Stating “Spartans” fought through Knights like butter is like stating Spartans easily destroyed 3 Sentinels. There’s a lot of context missing. Stating Blue Team fought through a bunch of Knights like butter makes a lot of sense because they fight like a nearly telepathic unit. The amount of damage the human weapons do to the Knight’s shields certainly needs some explaining though.
As for practical sense. When Knights are killed, they can be recollected and rematerialised by the Forerunner, not the Flood. When Forerunner wearing lvl12 combat skin dies… They are reanimated as a lvl12 combat skin drone.
It can be theorised that because Knights are not destroyed, they can learn from the defeat. Where the Knights of Requiem were conditioned to fighting simple Covenant and Flood and therefore were very basic and therefore exploitable by Spartans. There are means for the defeated to return with greater fighting prowess than when first met.
The XB1 RAM could allow for that happen.
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> > > While I agree the S.OPS cutscenes sometime offer little sense… Or that they give the good guys way too powerful plot armour and/or weapons… There’s no such thing as “just” an Onyx Sentinel.
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> > > Those things are much more powerful than the Sentinels we’ve faced in game, the BIG ones included, and they come equipped with impenetrable shields. The strategies to take down those Sentinels were far from obvious or easy to execute. In game we’d have to somehow drop a tank on one… Instead of shooting it with said tank
> > > … Yes Palmer’s M6 is funny because it can seemingly down a Knight in a just a few shots BUT doesn’t kill Halsey from hydrostatic shock (explosive rounds don’t overpenetrate).
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> > No doubt the SpOps cutscenes have taken some reality-bending liberties, but the canonical fact is still that Master Chief and the other Spartans were able to fight through them. I can’t imagine they’d be able to do the same with the living Prometheans in their combat skins.
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> > Now of course I know that there have to be nerfs for gameplay purposes, but lore-wise the Prometheans make little practical sense.
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> Not sure how. They were meant to fight Flood because of their inability to be infected while also serving as a giant -Yoink- you to the humans by the didact. If the Prometheans could have been built by more moral means, the forerunners may not have needed to fire the halo rings in the first place.
I get the part about the Didact hating humanity, but remember, he didn’t even consider that until the Promethean-turned-machines were running out. And that’s the “logic” that made little sense. Onyx Sentinels would have been better off at fighting the Flood. Where’s the explanation as for why more of these weren’t used, as OP as they are? And I’ve still yet to see anything supporting the statement that the Prometheans were the ultimate Flood-killing machines.
I don’t mind the Prometheans being bullet spongy to a degree, I would expect a tier 1 tech to be pretty tough, I just had a problem with the low ammo counts that we were given in the campaign. I felt like I was starving for ammo every encounter, if there was a more reasonable ammo capacity I don’t think I would have had any problem with the Prometheans in terms of taking punishment.
As far as new things go though, giving them more abilities would be would be a big help. Even if some of the Halo 4 concepts didn’t work as weapons, things like the stasis rifle could work as promethean abilities, more teleporting, various types of support sentinels, etc. Perhaps Dual wielding variants that wield ‘rifle’ sized weapons(Using both the Light Rifle and Suppressor).
New types of Prometheans would go a long ways, if the knights are well, ‘knights’, the crawlers ‘pawns’, the Watchers, ‘Bishops’, and the Didact is the ‘King’… Then we could still use a ‘Rook’ some large variant akin to a Enforcer sentinel to spice up vehicle sections, and a ‘Queen’ which would act as a Scarab level enemy(But Infantry sized with lots of abilities).
For twists on existing units perhaps add a ‘berserker’ class using a hardlight shield(think the Halo CE reveal with Elite shields) and a larger hardlight blade. Small ‘swarm’ watchers that are little more than flying boltshots. ‘Cerberus’ a crawler with both a Suppressor and two boltshots.
But alas, I am a purist with no ideas 