improve the magnum

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I think the pistol should return to a 3 sk with the RoF of the pistol in Reach.can anybody name a weapon other than the current pistol that is utterly useless? And if you can, I’d like to know.

Every other weapon in halo belongs to a niche where it reigns supreme.

You got your close quarters combat weapons like the shotgun, sword, and gravity hammer.

medium range rifles like the DMR, LR, BR and CC.

For your long distance needs you got the sniper rifle and the covie and promethean equivalents, the Beam Rifle and the Binary Rifle.

For close range combat there is the assault rifle, the storm rifle, and the suppressor.

And then the plasma pistol for draining shields and ruining vehicular game play.

But what about the pistol? If the average player was to use the pistol against another average player using an AR within close range, would the pistol win or the AR? What about if this was the same situation but with a DMR in a long range battle? The point I’m making is that the pistol does not have a niche. It is the only weapon that I know of that is useless. There is no incentive to use the pistol.
I also don’t believe that secondary weapons should be nerfed just because they’re secondary.
The pistol does not belong to a niche. It is an inferior weapon and very few people would even notice or care if it was removed.

What is the point of including a weapon game after game without the intent of giving the player an actual reason to use it?

Its a 5sk but has about 8 bullets to a magazine compared to the Dmr that is also a 5sk but its magazine is twice the size. The pistol has a faster ROF but what good is that when it has a small magazine and is an inaccurate weapon. Miss the head and you’ll have to reload and you’re going to lose the gun fight.
The pistol’s niche could be an intermediate between close range and mid range. This scale is for example purposes only.

Suppose that the CQC weapons perfect range is within 5 meters. The automatics would then be 5 - 25 meters. (25 meters is the radius of the radar so I believe this to be accurate).
The mid range rifles would be between 20 - 120 meters.

And the sniper’s range is 120+ meters.

There isn’t a range on this scale that it would be preferable to use the pistol. So lets create one.
I think a good range would be from 20 meters to 40 meters. This way the advantage still goes to automatics in within 3/4 of its perfect range, the precision rifles will be superior in 4/5 of its perfect range.

The pistol’s stats would be:
-3 sk
-8 bullet mag

  • less accurate than the precision rifles
    -faster rate of fire than the precision rifles.

The way the pistol is now, it has plenty of disadvantages, small mag, low accuracy, small range. And its only advantage which is its rate of fire isn’t much help unless you got an aimbot.

After reading the “community letter to 343i”, I think they could incorporate the dynamic aim assist idea this way. The pistol having a faster RoF would have less aim assist to balance it out.

2

just out of curiosity, you know the difference
between a primary & a secondary weapon ?

you know, the magnum wasn’t designed to compete
with any of these weapons you listed.

3

I just wish they bring back the badass H1 magnum… the precision was perfect and the 3sk just wonderful ^^

4

While I’d prefer the 3sk Magnum over the useless and redundant piece of -Yoink- that we’ve had since 2004, I don’t think having its ROF be equivalent to Reach’s magnum would be a very good way of implementing.

That’d be absurdly overpowered.

5

> I just wish they bring back the badass H1 magnum… the precision was perfect and the 3sk just wonderful ^^

This was before the BR.

The Magnum is fine as is, it’s a well balanced SECONDARY weapon.

6

> > I just wish they bring back the badass H1 magnum… the precision was perfect and the 3sk just wonderful ^^
>
> This was before the BR.
>
> The Magnum is fine as is, it’s a well balanced SECONDARY weapon.

The concept of a “Secondary” weapon is pretty redundant, if you ask me.

If you’re going to have a weapon that’s intentionally useless and is only used before you find a weapon on the map, you might as well not have it. There’s no point to clutter the sandbox with stuff that will be ignored in the majority of the time.

7

> If you’re going to have a weapon that’s intentionally useless and is only used before you find a weapon on the map, you might as well not have it. There’s no point to clutter the sandbox with stuff that will be ignored in the majority of the time.

^

“Hold X to PICK UP weapon” functionality has existed since Halo CE. No reason to make players swap a weapon they will never use.

Though I’d prefer they applied the Halo CE Magnum’s mechanics to the DMR’s Model while the Magnum keeps the niche it has now, a close-medium range weapon.

8

> just out of curiosity, you know the difference
> between a primary & a secondary weapon ?
>
> you know, the magnum wasn’t designed to compete
> with any of these weapons you listed.

and that is why I’m saying it should be made to be able to compete with them.

> While I’d prefer the 3sk Magnum over the useless and redundant piece of Yoink! that we’ve had since 2004, I don’t think having its ROF be equivalent to Reach’s magnum would be a very good way of implementing.
>
> That’d be absurdly overpowered.

yeah I get that but I think the minimum range, small mag and inaccuracy would balance it out. I play a lot of CEA and its rare I encounter someone who is skilled enough to get regular 3sk kills. And on certain maps its preferable to have faster kill times, on a small map like beaver creak where after dying it only takes a couple seconds to get back into the action, you don’t want battles being dragged out its similar to the problem sprint causes.

> > I just wish they bring back the badass H1 magnum… the precision was perfect and the 3sk just wonderful ^^
>
> This was before the BR.
>
> The Magnum is fine as is, it’s a well balanced SECONDARY weapon.

why is having a weapon that is useless and that you will drop at the first chance you get fine as is? At least in halo 2 and 3 you could dual wield them. They might as well improve it or not include it since its so useless. I honestly believe the only reason its still in games is for tradition

9

I think the magnum needs a slightly higher RoF and a larger magazine (12 rounds pl0x), but is pretty good. While I have MANY a fond memory of the H:CE pistol, that kind of power doesn’t fit in Halo anymore for a sidearm. Maybe if they implemented a hand cannon (revolver from Escalation, anyone?) they could have a powerful sidearm because it has limited ammo capacity and slow reloads.

One weapon that I feel didn’t get any justice in H4 was the plasma pistol. I think we can all agree on that. In Reach, it packed one heck of a punch and you could shred someone in seconds. In H4, it normally ends up looking like some guy with a paintball marker chasing some dude for thirty seconds before he swats you like the mosquito he perceives you to be. PP damage needs a boost and projectiles need a slight boost in speed.

That is all… OR IS IT!?

10

> I just wish they bring back the badass H1 magnum… the precision was perfect and the 3sk just wonderful ^^

The pistol that was also never intended to be that powerful.

11

> While I’d prefer the 3sk Magnum over the useless and redundant piece of Yoink! that we’ve had since 2004, I don’t think having its ROF be equivalent to Reach’s magnum would be a very good way of implementing.
>
> That’d be absurdly overpowered.

Redundant? The Halo 3 magnum functioned well enough, you could even kill people using ARs and BRs if you did it well enough, Reach was decent enough, and Halo 4 was the best, since it had a good ROF and accuracy.
But we can all agree the Halo 2 magnum was kinda crap, but still kinda fun to use

12

Yeah, what the Hell is the point of ‘secondary’ weapons?
All weapons should be equally as good, but designed for different situations/purposes.
No redundancy.

A pistol is identical to a BR or DMR in terms of use, only worse.
Pointless.

13

> Yeah, what the Hell is the point of ‘secondary’ weapons?
> All weapons should be equally as good, but designed for different situations/purposes.
> No redundancy.
>
> A pistol is identical to a BR or DMR in terms of use, only worse.
> Pointless.

The point of a secondary weapon is to have a nice back-up should you run out of ammo on your primary and would rather switch to your other gun rather than waste time reloading. The Magnum has saved me a bunch like that. I’ve also used it over my AR sometimes for range to pepper shields and kill others.

I don’t think the Magnum needs to return to a 3SK. Improving on Halo 4’s would be good enough, I think. Increasing the ammo you start with (it goes quick when it’s a six shot kill, so on the note, maybe make it a five shot kill again?) would be fine, I think. Maybe a magazine capacity increase, but that’s pushing it.

14

How about the swap weapon time being faster if you swap to the pistol for those ‘out of ammo’ moments. That way there is an incentive to carry the magnum over a rifle. (combined with it’s current jack of all trades attributes). Also 10 shot clip?

-imagine ‘dexterity’ only applying to the magnum.

15

> > > I just wish they bring back the badass H1 magnum… the precision was perfect and the 3sk just wonderful ^^
> >
> > This was before the BR.
> >
> > The Magnum is fine as is, it’s a well balanced SECONDARY weapon.
>
> The concept of a “Secondary” weapon is pretty redundant, if you ask me.
>
> <mark>If you’re going to have a weapon that’s intentionally useless and is only used before you find a weapon on the map, you might as well not have it</mark>. There’s no point to clutter the sandbox with stuff that will be ignored in the majority of the time.

Yes I agree but the H4 Magnum is def not useless

16

> > Yeah, what the Hell is the point of ‘secondary’ weapons?
> > All weapons should be equally as good, but designed for different situations/purposes.
> > No redundancy.
> >
> > A pistol is identical to a BR or DMR in terms of use, only worse.
> > Pointless.
>
> The point of a secondary weapon is to have a nice back-up should you run out of ammo on your primary and would rather switch to your other gun rather than waste time reloading. The Magnum has saved me a bunch like that. I’ve also used it over my AR sometimes for range to pepper shields and kill others.
>
> I don’t think the Magnum needs to return to a 3SK. Improving on Halo 4’s would be good enough, I think. Increasing the ammo you start with (it goes quick when it’s a six shot kill, so on the note, maybe make it a five shot kill again?) would be fine, I think. Maybe a magazine capacity increase, but that’s pushing it.

But it has no advantage. I’d just pick up two rifles… I know you’re saying that it’s given on spawn, but meh…

17

The fact that you can fire off the eight rounds it has with both speed and near pinpoint accuracy is quite the advantage.

Heck, I use it in SWAT over my BR sometimes because of how spammable it is. :stuck_out_tongue:

18

> > Yeah, what the Hell is the point of ‘secondary’ weapons?
> > All weapons should be equally as good, but designed for different situations/purposes.
> > No redundancy.
> >
> > A pistol is identical to a BR or DMR in terms of use, only worse.
> > Pointless.
>
> The point of a secondary weapon is to have a nice back-up should you run out of ammo on your primary and would rather switch to your other gun rather than waste time reloading. The Magnum has saved me a bunch like that. I’ve also used it over my AR sometimes for range to pepper shields and kill others.
>
> I don’t think the Magnum needs to return to a 3SK. Improving on Halo 4’s would be good enough, I think. Increasing the ammo you start with (it goes quick when it’s a six shot kill, so on the note, maybe make it a five shot kill again?) would be fine, I think. Maybe a magazine capacity increase, but that’s pushing it.

so much this !
besides that, i’ve killed plenty times people with a BR or DMR
with the magnum & i don’t mean it SWAT-wise.
you just have to figure it out when to use it & how to use it.

19

I definitely agree with the general idea. The magnum needs an actual niche. ‘Backup’ is not a viable niche on its own.

The whole concept of ‘secondaries’ in Halo is ridiculous and is no excuse for why the magnum should be worthless. Secondaries work in other games because roles are assigned by primary weapons and typically remain that way throughout a particular life. The only exception is the odd case of picking up a weapon from a dead enemy in CoD but no one wants to take the time to do that. Imagine if in addition to loadouts CoD maps also had snipers, shotguns, ARs, etc on the map. We would all ask why do they even bother with the pistols and the primary/secondary restriction int he first place.

Halo has always been about changing your role based on the current situation. Players(originally) all started out the same and then changed roles based on what they picked up on the map. The two weapons system isn’t limited by weapon type so having a weapon that only works as ‘backup’ is almost immediately discarded. Making the whole ‘backup’ niche even more useless.

This is one reason I dislike loadouts because the ‘primary-secondary’ is based on aesthetics alone. Which causes problems when the other ‘secondaries’(plasma pistol/boltshot) are actually powerful in their own right. The magnum is the only weapon that has ‘real world’ mechanics thrown upon it.

The Halo 4 magnum is nothing but a inferior precision weapon and the sandbox is weaker for it.

As for solutions I can think of two that would make me happy.

1.)Just Bring back the ODST Automag without the suppressor. The weapons was a great mix between the ‘pistol’ traits of lower firepower and a relatively shallow magazine and the ‘OP’ nature of the CE Magnum with laser accuracy, high rof, and absurd 4x scope. It felt both distinct from the utility of the Carbine while still maintaining its own desirable traits of accuracy and range. The Carbine was still the most versatile, but the Automag was a powerful weapon in its own right.

^This would be my preferred option because, well, I love ODST.

2.)Make it a close range hand cannon. No scope ala H2/H3 but it would still have high accuracy and the killtime would outpace utility weapons like the Carbine/BR as well as longer range rifles like the DMR/N’ifle/LR. It wouldn’t have to be a 3sk but powerful enough that precision rifles are at a distinct disadvantage while still being vulnerable to auto weapons at closer ranges.

The Reach/H4 magnums are just wishy-washy pistols with no direction. Despite the scope they are inferior to precision weapons in every ranged encounter and the bloom is so extreme that their close range effectiveness is severely limited.

20

> The Reach/H4 magnums are just wishy-washy pistols with no direction. Despite the scope they are inferior to precision weapons in every ranged encounter and the bloom is so extreme that their close range effectiveness is severely limited.

I dunno, once the TU settings released, the Magnum was a great weapon to use in Halo: Reach. From launch it has always been capable of a 5-shot kill, just like the DMR but the bloom like you said, really did mess it up.