> > > You have to be kidding me. I sound petty because I follow the rules? Because I work for hours on maps, and make sure I use the pieces I’m given, when people are out there using mods to have so much more then I, or any other forger can ever get? It’s not glitch I can assure you. It’s impossible to fiddle around in forge and all of a sudden have unlimited pieces.
> > > No offense responder, but your argument is completely invalid. There is no excuse why these mods should be allowed. You shouldn’t have to use mods to have fun. I have tons of maps that my friends like, in which NONE of the, are modded. People who use mods, to me, aren’t “real” forgers.
> >
> > You do realize all 343i has to do is pretty much say that these kinds of modified content are authorized and they no longer break rules, right?
> >
> > Why shouldn’t they be allowed, they make the game a better experience for all involved. You don’t need mods for fun, but in the same way Custom Games options work, they make the game much better. What’s easier, asking someone to switch to the Zombie team or having the game auto-switch them?
> >
> > These people are real forgers, they just go about forging in a way that furthers their potential at map making. Since Halo 4 forge didn’t get any improvements from Reach I would consider this the closest thing to a new feature that the game will get.
>
> This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.
>
>
> *Original post. Click at your own discretion.
>
>
>
> Well guess what? Most modded maps are enjoyed by the community. Stop acting like such a brat because someone made the same map you did, only bigger.
>
> Which in itself is an upgrade over your version as it’s a larger play space.
>
> These over-budget maps are modded, not glitched. The difference is glitches can be done within the game engine - modding requires interference outside the game engine. Modded content breaks the Microsoft Terms of Service and can result in consequences anywhere from a fileshare ban, all the way up to a console ban.
>
> Yes, I’ve seen the twitter post where Quinn said “modding’s fine”, but you’ll notice should you look that message was deleted from his twitter and now can only be found as a screencapture JPEG. 343’s stance on modding doesn’t matter in the least - their parent company says No.
>
> I discourage everyone from making, downloading, and/or distributing modded content on the pure basis that you can get in trouble, you can get banned, and you will no longer be able to enjoy Halo. Yes, the current restrictions may be more than is necessary, but them’s the brakes.
And that’s all fair. But looking at it from a community point of view, I don’t see why the OP should draw ire from this. So someone has more pieces to make a map, so what? That doesn’t mean they are bad Forgers. Yes, they used methods that are less than ideal. However, if they are Forging and it is just between themselves, their friends and the general Forging community, I just don’t see the outrage.
> > These over-budget maps are modded, not glitched. The difference is glitches can be done within the game engine - modding requires interference outside the game engine. Modded content breaks the Microsoft Terms of Service and can result in consequences anywhere from a fileshare ban, all the way up to a console ban.
> >
> > Yes, I’ve seen the twitter post where Quinn said “modding’s fine”, but you’ll notice should you look that message was deleted from his twitter and now can only be found as a screencapture JPEG. 343’s stance on modding doesn’t matter in the least - their parent company says No.
> >
> > I discourage everyone from making, downloading, and/or distributing modded content on the pure basis that you can get in trouble, you can get banned, and you will no longer be able to enjoy Halo. Yes, the current restrictions may be more than is necessary, but them’s the brakes.
>
> And that’s all fair. But looking at it from a community point of view, I don’t see why the OP should draw ire from this. So someone has more pieces to make a map, so what? That doesn’t mean they are bad Forgers. Yes, they used methods that are less than ideal. However, if they are Forging and it is just between themselves, their friends and the general Forging community, I just don’t see the outrage.
Exactly. The OP is just upset because someone essentially beat him to the punch and did it in a way that he personally disagrees with.
It’s nice to have that standard but he doesn’t need to go ballistic and start insulting other Forgers.
As far as I’m concerned, you put a couple of blocks into a cool position, you’re a Forger. The title isn’t exclusive to anyone…
@OP
you should be complaining to 343 that the forge budget is to small and have a very limited amount of pieces to work with for each section in your forge menu.
Dont blame the people that think bigger and surpass the limits of there imagination.
You know what, I expected this much from the halo community. I say something, that’s obviously against the rules, yet everyone screams that its ok, mods are fun, and they don’t hurt anyone. I’m the bad guy right?
Mods are against the rules, why am I the bad guy? Why am I the one who’s being ganged up on? This is just straight ridiculous. I’m called a baby for following the rules, I say that I’m petty, I’m an honest forger who uses what he has, and yet I’m the one being ganged up on yet.
Typical halo community, very typical.
> > These over-budget maps are modded, not glitched. The difference is glitches can be done within the game engine - modding requires interference outside the game engine. Modded content breaks the Microsoft Terms of Service and can result in consequences anywhere from a fileshare ban, all the way up to a console ban.
> >
> > Yes, I’ve seen the twitter post where Quinn said “modding’s fine”, but you’ll notice should you look that message was deleted from his twitter and now can only be found as a screencapture JPEG. 343’s stance on modding doesn’t matter in the least - their parent company says No.
> >
> > I discourage everyone from making, downloading, and/or distributing modded content on the pure basis that you can get in trouble, you can get banned, and you will no longer be able to enjoy Halo. Yes, the current restrictions may be more than is necessary, but them’s the brakes.
>
> And that’s all fair. But looking at it from a community point of view, I don’t see why the OP should draw ire from this. So someone has more pieces to make a map, so what? That doesn’t mean they are bad Forgers. Yes, they used methods that are less than ideal. <mark>However, if they are Forging and it is just between themselves, their friends and the general Forging community</mark>, I just don’t see the outrage.
Uh, that is a lie. They are posting those mods on their file shares, show casing them and spreading the word. I highly doubt they make them for “them and their friends to share, and some of the community”.
Just wanna pop in to let you guys know that this thread is fine for now. It’s a high-level discussion of the ethics of modding that doesn’t go into specifics on modding itself, and doesn’t link or direct to modded content. As long as it stays that way, I don’t see any problems coming from it.
> OP, your post seems a bit exaggerated.
>
> Just because someone has the resources to make a better map, <mark>doesn’t mean that they are not real forgers.</mark> In Halo 3, people used “Ghost Forging” to create a lot of the Bungie Favorites. Are those people not real forgers?
>
> Just something to think about.
This is seriously what you’re concerned about? That I’m accusing them of being not “real forgers” ?
So? someone can make a better map with illegitimate tools, if I made a minecraft map with MCedit does that mean the map should be shunned by society? or if I use GCFscape for a tf2 map? no, those maps are generally better, despite not being the most legit ways of making maps, and considering that it was “based off of a real life event” you have no right to be mad that someone else made a map based off the same event, especially if it was a D-Day map, now if you worked your *** off on an ORIGINAL idea and a modder took it, that would be different
> You know what, I expected this much from the halo community. I say something, that’s obviously against the rules, yet everyone screams that its ok, mods are fun, and they don’t hurt anyone. I’m the bad guy right?
You are a bad guy when you try call people who these methods “not real forgers”. And the mods add a lot of fun to the game. If it weren’t for modded gametypes custom games would hardly be played now. But i guess that violates the rules and custom games should go back to their awful state before the mods right?
> Mods are against the rules, why am I the bad guy? Why am I the one who’s being ganged up on? This is just straight ridiculous. I’m called a baby for following the rules, I say that I’m petty, I’m an honest forger who uses what he has, and yet I’m the one being ganged up on yet.
> Typical halo community, very typical.
Custom games are basically built on mods in halo 4. Microsoft would have already banned so many people for using these mods but you know what? They didn’t. You are being called because of your over the top reaction and because these mods don’t really effect you or I.Someone made a modded map, so what? Just because they used other methods to make their map that means they aren’t real forgers? That is just completely ridiculous.
> Just wanna pop in to let you guys know that this thread is fine for now. <mark>It’s a high-level discussion of the ethics of modding that doesn’t go into specifics on modding itself, and doesn’t link or direct to modded content.</mark> As long as it stays that way, I don’t see any problems coming from it.
Oh my goodness, well would you look at this!
Did any of yous read this? If anyone posts any modded material, or anything of the sort… Its against the rules, which is NOT ok by any means.
> You know what, I expected this much from the halo community. I say something, that’s obviously against the rules, yet everyone screams that its ok, mods are fun, and they don’t hurt anyone. I’m the bad guy right?
>
> Mods are against the rules, why am I the bad guy? Why am I the one who’s being ganged up on? This is just straight ridiculous. I’m called a baby for following the rules, I say that I’m petty, I’m an honest forger who uses what he has, and yet I’m the one being ganged up on yet.
> Typical halo community, very typical.
Yes, they violate the rules, but in doing so they allow the game to evolve to higher standards. The rules need to be changed, especially after the mess that is Halo 4 custom games and forge.
Current mods are mostly upgraded custom game options, it’s the next step up from what we got with Reach and what we unfortunately got stuck with in Halo 4. Most people find it hard to hate something that makes the game much better, even when it breaks a rule. It’s alright for you to use what you have, but don’t denounce those who weren’t content with working inside the box and ventured outward.
The only reason you’re a “bad guy” is because you’re hating people who managed to make something better than you. While the ethics of how they created something better is debatable, the point remains that you could do exactly what they did. You’re restricting yourself and then looking down upon those that aren’t.
> You know what, I expected this much from the halo community. I say something, that’s obviously against the rules, yet everyone screams that its ok, mods are fun, and they don’t hurt anyone. I’m the bad guy right?
>
> Mods are against the rules, why am I the bad guy? Why am I the one who’s being ganged up on? This is just straight ridiculous. I’m called a baby for following the rules, I say that I’m petty, I’m an honest forger who uses what he has, and yet I’m the one being ganged up on yet.
> Typical halo community, very typical.
Dude, nobody here is making you out to be the bad guy. Your complaint is noted and understood. If I were in your shoes I’d probably feel the same way.
What’s really rubbing people the wrong way…or at least me that is, is your attitude towards this. Basically condemning people for the use of Mods as if they were some kind of dangerous lunatics. They’re just having fun and as far as I know they haven’t really done any harm.
You’re coming on here trying to look like you’ve been through some kind of traumatic experience because somebody made the same thing as you…but just with mods. I get it, you’re upset but calm down. It ain’t the end of the world.
If you feel like spouting all this stuff and putting some odd text here and there in red to get your point across it just makes it seem as if you’re trying to look better than these modders. I know a guy who’s done a bit of gametype modding here and there and some of his gametypes are pretty entertaining. He’s also dabbled in the forge areas.
I believe he was making an apartment and needed more than four lights or something. In any case, what’s adding a few extra lights going to do? Or a few extra walls? It isn’t degrading the quality of the map at all, it’s just improving it and giving it a little more build.
This friend has also been doing this stuff since Halo 3 and has yet to get one ban for it. I’ll admit, I’ve played some modded maps/gametypes before but I don’t actually have any saved. I just get thrown into them when my friends are online. The gametypes give an extra kick to the game and keep me coming back for more. Same for the maps. Guy on these forums made Blood Gulch and I even used it in a machinima I made.
At the end of the day, it isn’t harming anyone.
> > Just wanna pop in to let you guys know that this thread is fine for now. <mark>It’s a high-level discussion of the ethics of modding that doesn’t go into specifics on modding itself, and doesn’t link or direct to modded content.</mark> As long as it stays that way, I don’t see any problems coming from it.
>
> Oh my goodness, well would you look at this!
> Did any of yous read this? If anyone posts any modded material, or anything of the sort… Its against the rules, which is NOT ok by any means.
Good lord dude, come on now.
We all KNOW it’s against the rules.
PEOPLE ARE STILL GOING TO DO IT.
Regardless of your personal opinion on it or not, people are still going to do that and because of that, they will likely create more entertaining maps than you can as a result. Accept it and move on.
If you disagree with it, report the people who make them. You shouldn’t be on some kind of megarant because somebody made a bigger map than you…
> So? someone can make a better map with illegitimate tools, if I made a minecraft map with MCedit does that mean the map should be shunned by society? or if I use GCFscape for a tf2 map? no, those maps are generally better, despite not being the most legit ways of making maps, and considering that it was “based off of a real life event” you have no right to be mad that someone else made a map based off the same event, especially if it was a D-Day map, <mark>now if you worked your *** off on an ORIGINAL idea and a modder took it, that would be different</mark>
They didn’t take MY map and modded it, I never said that. I said that its just a map with the same exact idea, but modded.
> > Just wanna pop in to let you guys know that this thread is fine for now. <mark>It’s a high-level discussion of the ethics of modding that doesn’t go into specifics on modding itself, and doesn’t link or direct to modded content.</mark> As long as it stays that way, I don’t see any problems coming from it.
>
> Oh my goodness, well would you look at this!
> Did any of yous read this? If anyone posts any modded material, or anything of the sort… Its against the rules, which is NOT ok by any means.
Yes, I read it. Current rules do not allow the creation and use of modified content created through unauthorized means. That does not mean that all modified content is bad and those who create it should be punished for pushing the limits.
> Look, I’m a little angry so allow me to “speak” on this topic.
>
> I’m a forger, and I’m not trying to toot my own horn but a decent one too. I work really hard on my maps, I sit there for some time figuring out:
> -how I’m not going to break lighting
> -how to make my map budget efficient so it can be as big and good looking at the same time
> -how to work with all the pieces I’m given
>
> I didn’t mind seeing them around and show cased on those forge youtube channels. I’m 100% against using them and downloading them. I believe that a good forger can use what he/she is given.
> Last night was the last straw.
> About 2 weeks ago, I busted my -Yoink!- making a nice looking map that I spent a couple of hours making, it was completely inspired by a real life event.
> So last night, I was doing my usual thing playing some matchmaking late at night with my buddy, in between game browsing my subscribed forge map youtube channels, and then I saw it.
>
> I seen a map that was based on the same exact map, same exact event. It was completely modded with nearly unlimited rock walls and trees. This infuriated me. I worked so HARD on my map, i had to make a smaller size map because I had to work around the budget to make it all work out. This modded map was so much bigger and looked so much better because they had unlimited rock walls.
>
> I’m sorry, but I’m fed up as a forger seeing these maps around. It’s not fair to real forgers who have to think so much harder when making a map and have to actually work with the pieces were given.
>
> I don’t know what to do about this, or who to actual complain to. I have so many questions like, are modded maps allowed? Are modded maps 343 approved? Can’t people get in trouble with downloading them? I just wish a forger, something was done about this, or some questions were answered…
> What do you’s think? Do you’s feel the same way as I do about these modded forge maps? Please share your thoughts, thank you for reading.
> PS. Please don’t lock this thread, monitors because of the topic, I need help with this issue.
blame certain affinity for not allowing infinite forge objects
plus it’s easy to tell a modded map from a legit one.
> > So? someone can make a better map with illegitimate tools, if I made a minecraft map with MCedit does that mean the map should be shunned by society? or if I use GCFscape for a tf2 map? no, those maps are generally better, despite not being the most legit ways of making maps, and considering that it was “based off of a real life event” you have no right to be mad that someone else made a map based off the same event, especially if it was a D-Day map, <mark>now if you worked your *** off on an ORIGINAL idea and a modder took it, that would be different</mark>
>
> They didn’t take MY map and modded it, I never said that. I said that its just a map with the same exact idea, but modded.
I know what you said, I said that it would be different if they stole your map, but they didn’t
> Oh my goodness, well would you look at this!
> Did any of yous read this? If anyone posts any modded material, or anything of the sort… Its against the rules, which is NOT ok by any means.
It’s no question that modded content violates the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use. The way I see it, though, this discussion isn’t about the black-and-white matter of whether or not modded map variants are allowed; it’s about the ethics of relying on them to build Forge maps.
Now, as for my personal opinion on that subject,…
> I’m sorry, but I’m fed up as a forger seeing these maps around. It’s not fair to real forgers who have to think so much harder when making a map and have to actually work with the pieces were given.
I agree that it’s not fair to Forgers that don’t want to break the ToU, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the individuals that use these canvases aren’t “real Forgers”.
Imagine for a moment that 343i releases a Title Update that removes all Forge limitations except for the global map max (~640 objects of any type). If someone starts taking advantage of the removed limitations, and using more objects than those old limitations would have allowed, are they no longer a real Forger?
I would say that being a “real Forger” is more about using a small selection of shapes on a developer-supplied section of terrain, to build maps that are good to look at and fun to play on. That’s really the only part of Forge that’s specific to Forge (and even then, it’s only unique to an extent). Everything else – the need to build cohesive structures, the need to stay within game engine limits, et cetera – can be found in just about every other map editor.
“Real Forger” is a term that’s just as nebulous and multifaceted as “real Halo fan”.
> No offense OP, but that sounded really petty . . . You guys are building maps, as long as they are fun does it matter how they were made?
I don’t think the OP’s concerns are petty. The fact is that Forgers that rely on modded content are inherently able to do and accomplish more than rule-abiding players. It’s an advantage that generally isn’t earned through any ingenuity or merit on the part of the Forger.
> I mean, are they actually using mods to get more of what they want as opposed to using glitches like the ones in Reach?
I’m not aware of any reproducible budget glitches that exist in Reach or Halo 4.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not purposely bypass the word filter, and please refrain from making discriminatory remarks.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
> I don’t think the OP’s concerns are petty. The fact is that Forgers that rely on modded content are inherently able to do and accomplish more than rule-abiding players. It’s an advantage that generally isn’t earned through any ingenuity or merit on the part of the Forger.
The advantage that you get with better tools is small, It’s all about the map design and gameplay, an artist with a pencil will still make better art then an retarted chimpanzee with a full art set
> I’m not aware of any reproducible budget glitches that exist in Reach or Halo 4.
I’m not sure 100% of this so don’t quote me as being right but apparently a buddy of mine managed to glitch out the budged by overloading Forge World somehow.
I can’t remember what he said though. If I find out I won’t be posting it here though lol. X3
But in any cast, I THINK it’s possible but I’m not sure.