[This thread is for the purpose of a specific debate around a closely defined topic, I request mods don’t lock it on the grounds that it is beating a dead horse]
“For all the strategies that were removed when dropping the flag became no longer do-able, there are new strategies that have now become available”
In this argument, I am referring to the fact that we are no longer able to drop the flag. I am not covering the ability to hold a pistol.
This is an argument I’ve heard around these forums especially. The notion that through removing options, you create alternative strategies. The reason this cannot be correct is that in Halo 3/Reach, you had the options in play necessary to simulate every single strategy that is available to be used through the mechanics of Halo 4.
The only difference, is that you had more.
Think about it this way, there is not a single strategy in Halo 4 CTF which could not have been simulated in 3/Reach through merely not dropping the flag.
To finish off, I’d like to prove it to you guys. Name one valid strategy which arises from not being able to drop the flag, which could not have been achieved in previous Halo games.
I would bet a large sum of money, that this cannot be done.
> I think the point is that it reinforces/enforces the need for teamwork.
Who exactly is this supposed to help? As a solo player, you’re unlikely to get other random players to help you, no matter what the objective is. As a team player with your friends, you already know exactly what to do. No. This gametype has only been tested with people who’re all very co-operative, completely unrepresentative of the matchmaking environment. Who’s going to want to go for the objective when you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage by doing so? Losing all your great weapons, putting a waypoint on your head.
Nobody, that’s who.
It’s not like people have this great incentive to win, when there’s no ranks involved.
So, this change is supposed to make teams work together better?
At the cost of removing creativity and depth from the game?
> I think the point is that it reinforces/enforces the need for teamwork.
lol? The flag carrier now moves faster, is stronger, doesnt reward players who used teamwork to get power weapons, eliminates all flag passing, and removes the decision making of either fast and seen or slow and stealthy.
They are just dumbing it down.
343i’s method of teamwork is disgusting. Instead of promoting teamwork in actually beneficial ways, they dumb it down so much the players cannot differentiate themselves because they removed skills such as flag tossing, gernades, any weapon except a pistol, sneakiness, etc.
> Running Flagnum taking out the whole enemy team on your own then capping.
>
> Best montage clip ever ^
>
> One man grabs flag, others protect him with Hardlight shields. (This would be a great custom game, “protect the president”)
>
> It focuses the team to “Protect” their carrier, so teamwork is actually viable now.
If you’d read my post, you’d have seen that holding a magnum is not what I’m arguing against.
That clip could have been obtained whether or not the carrier was forced to hold onto the flag.
> Running Flagnum taking out the whole enemy team on your own then capping.
>
> Best montage clip ever ^
>
> One man grabs flag, others protect him with Hardlight shields. (This would be a great custom game, “protect the president”)
>
> It focuses the team to “Protect” their carrier, so teamwork is actually viable now.
Lol? i hope you know this would never be a viable option in MM, especially if you attempted it more than once.
Secondly, thats a very shallow kind of teamwork. Simply nothing but meat sheilds? Give me a break, thats the lowest form of teamwork there is, almost as bad as the blatant baby sitting thats going to be required.
Thirdly, what you described is just as possible whether your forced to hold the flag or can drop it.
> > I read a post by 3LG that the flow of Infinity CTF is supposed to be based around fast paced games like Basketball.
> >
> > Yet you can’t drop the flag…
>
> “Passing the ball in oddball = MOAR TEAMWORKS”
> “No more passing the flag in CTF = MOAR TEAMWORKS”
>
>
> It just boggles one’s mind.
You HAVE to factor in the pistol when it comes to this because that’s the point of not being able to drop the flag. They did this so the flag games will stay more focused on the objective and switching from the flag with the pistol to your primary weapon would give the carrier too much power.
The pistol also does more damage than a regular one so this makes the flag carrier more independent without killing the pace of the game and making the rest of the team useless.
In a nutshell of just not being able to drop the flag though? No new strategies will be created. It’ll create new experiences though.
I thought this thread was to have a specific debate? It looks like one side of the argument is praising each other and taking cheap, underhanded insults at the other side.
Are you going to continue ridiculing the opposing side or actually want to have a good discussion?
> You HAVE to factor in the pistol when it comes to this because that’s the point of not being able to drop the flag. They did this so the flag games will stay more focused on the objective and switching from the flag with the pistol to your primary weapon would give the carrier too much power.
>
> The pistol also does more damage than a regular one so this makes the flag carrier more independent without killing the pace of the game and making the rest of the team useless.
Exactly how does giving the flag carrier a pistol make him want to do the objective? Cuz i know i sure as hell wont go any where near it.
And if hes “too strong” why do they make the pistol stronger? The ammount of hypocrisy is outstanding.
> I thought this thread was to have a specific debate? It looks like one side of the argument is praising each other and taking cheap, underhanded insults at the other side.
>
> Are you going to continue ridiculing the opposing side or actually want to have a good discussion?
There’s not many strategies you can do when forced to hold the flag. The objective is to get to point A to point B. This encourages teamwork I would say and speeds up the game.
Yes it eliminates some strategies, but some of those strategies need to be eliminated. Like objective holding and dropping the flag for bait/easy kills.
> > meh, i honestly don’t understand how people think substracting is adding, where did they go to school?
> >
> > 4 - 1 = 5 doesn’t make any sense does it?
>
> Hey, maybe if we removed CTF all together, wed get the most options in ctf yet!
> There’s not many strategies you can do when forced to hold the flag. The objective is to get to point A to point B. This encourages teamwork I would say and speeds up the game.
>
> Yes it eliminates some strategies, but some of those strategies need to be eliminated. Like objective holding and dropping the flag for bait/easy kills.
Actually Objective Holding is going to get worse because now we are forced to “hold the objective.”