I'm confused... The anniversary edition is Reach MP?

Games Other Halo
1

What’s the point to calling it a remake if half the game, and potentially one that will be spent a massive amount of time in, is really just new Reach maps underneath it all? Watching the video where somebody described the reason they chose to use the Reach MP over the original I couldn’t quite understand what he was trying to get across. It was something about a year and hurting the economy of the players?

I’d really like somebody to post about this because I fail to see how people see this as an okay thing. To me that is going to be the reason I don’t get the game. If that is how it will be with armor abilities and all of this other over-rated shiny noise, how can you even call this a remake? You made such a point to emulate the original Halo for the campaign, but the campaign is only half of what made Halo so great.
The original Halo revolutionized the FPS genre. The same can’t be said for most of the later ones, in fact I’d only include Halo 2 as it had the best MP experience in my opinion. The rest didn’t do much for the genre, and were nowhere near as iconic or impressive. I don’t understand why you guys think it’s okay to slap in Reach MP in a the remake of the best game ever. That absolutely ruins it for me.

Is the point of a remake not to allow the players to re-experience Halo in it’s true iconic form? If people wanted to play the Reach MP, they’d play the Reach MP.

I simply can’t understand why this decision went the way it did. In all honesty I see the above reason I heard in the video as an excuse to not go the extra mile… While going the extra mile was what made Halo so great.

I don’t want you guys to think I’m flaming you or trolling or anything, but I’m just severely disappointed… Ten years ago I absolutely loved Halo. I was in my 3rd/4th/5th grades around that time, and I still have my folder full of drawings I made… The folder is full of pictures of guns, vehicles, and enemies I drew that I felt fit into the Halo universe. Me and my friends would constantly play through Co-op and destroy each other in MP. I remember playing on Sidewinder with my dad, ramming into each-other with the warthogs and going flying, and how person vs warthog + punch was very fun to do… Maybe when I go home again I’ll find that folder and scan some pictures to post.

For a long time I’ve wanted a remake of Halo, but this isn’t what I imagined at all for the multiplayer.

2

This is so old, i’m learning about it in history.

3

If you’d extrapolate a little on that I could probably respond with something useful. Also I doubt you read my post within that minute or two, why post then? To troll? C’mon man, grow up.

4

As stated by 343i, adding Xbox LIVE to the Halo Anniversary engine and gameplay itself would make it unfaithful to the original version, and it would have been so much un needed work on top of that. Everything is different on LIVE also, what you expect to happen in Halo 1 on splitscreen or LAN, you could not expect on LIVE. You can know exactly where to lead your shots, where they hit and how many hit and know where the person really is on LAN or splitscreen…but simply because of latency on LIVE, everything would have changed. It would not be as anyone remembered it.

So, 343i built onto Reach’s multiplayer with gametypes very similar to classic Halo gameplay, great remade classic Halo maps, and a network infrastructure you know what to expect of already.

Also, I’m pretty sure the flexibility and versatility of Reach offers much more fun than ramming warthogs or warthog stunts in Halo 1. While fun, can it compare to all Reach has? Plus, you can download CEA maps to the real Reach disk so you can have the complete experience.

5

> As stated by 343i, adding Xbox LIVE to the Halo Anniversary engine and gameplay itself would make it unfaithful to the original version, and it would have been so much un needed work on top of that. Everything is different on LIVE also, what you expect to happen in Halo 1 on splitscreen or LAN, you could not expect on LIVE. You can know exactly where to lead your shots, where they hit and how many hit and know where the person really is on LAN or splitscreen…but simply because of latency on LIVE, everything would have changed. It would not be as anyone remembered it.
>
>
> So, 343i built onto Reach’s multiplayer with gametypes very similar to classic Halo gameplay, great remade classic Halo maps, and a network infrastructure you know what to expect of already.
>
>
> Also, I’m pretty sure the flexibility and versatility of Reach offers much more fun than ramming warthogs or warthog stunts in Halo 1. While fun, can it compare to all Reach has? Plus, you can download CEA maps to the real Reach disk so you can have the complete experience.

I don’t see why they would think adding Xbox LIVE to the original MP would make it any more unfaithful than adding Co-op over LIVE…

As far as latency changing everything, that simply isn’t true. Halo 2 worked unbelievably well, and connections were only half as good as they are nowadays. If you’re talking about how it is to play Halo CE on PC with the servers, that is simply from issues that weren’t addressed. If you look at any game today such as COD, BF, etc you can see there is very little difference between, say, online vs split-screen in terms of connectivity. The only real issue is lag, but that’s understandable considering the worlds infrastructure isn’t perfect of course. Like I said, I found Halo 2’s MP to be the best, and that was over LIVE and worked exceptionally well.

Also, you said “everything would have changed. It would not be as anyone remembered it,” but how does just taking Reach MP and using that differ? It is going to be worlds different with the Reach MP in place of an updated original. Now that is definitely not how anybody remembers Halo.

Fun in Reach isn’t what made Halo fun initially. Any more it’s about armor abilities/upgrades, customization matches, and forge. Initially Halo didn’t need any of that to be a solid and fun experience. Most of the additions made were actually based on community made-up mini-games that worked perfectly without any customizing. I’m talking about cat and mouse, tower of power, zombies, and since a lot of time has passed I’m sure I missed a lot more. What these things are any more in Halo are nothing like they used to be, and frankly, not as fun. At the end of the day fun is subjective though, but something that isn’t is the definition of a remake, and the multiplayer of Halo CEA is not a remake of Halo CE/2. I added the /2 because I can see it making sense to draw more so from Halo 2’s MP considering it did have LIVE functionality.

6

I still believe he has a point, I thought the same thing too. Even if it won’t be the EXACT same as original Halo, Reach matchmaking will be? With the Armor Abilities and everything? Even the console and PC versions were different. I couldn’t do half of the fun things on the console version because if I did it would kill me (Glitches and everything. Anybody remember PFR and ‘stunting’ as I called it? Getting stuck into rocks. Getting the ghost outside of Death Island. Slamming you’re spartan through the certain part on Sidewinder to get out of the level). I don’t expect it to be like an exact copy. But it would’ve been closer than Reach MP

7

Oh wow haha… Rocket jumping, super bounces… Brings back some fun memories. Oh, and sword lunges, don’t forget that… I remember getting near the absolute top of Headlong, Halo 2 had some pretty epic MP moments.

I only played Halo CE on console and I was very young so I only played with a few other people like my dad and a few friends, but there are so many things that still stick in my head to this day about it. Doesn’t that count for anything in showing you what a great game that was? I just find it unreal they intend on going with Reach MP when there are clearly so many more appropriate choices for a throwback to the original.

(I also played CE on PC a little, but that was just casually to reminisce.)

Sidenote: Halo 1 and 2 are the sole reasons why I find so much enjoyment in exploring the physical boundaries in games. In any games I ever play I always get that little deviance inside me that sprouted from the old days.

8

> > As stated by 343i, adding Xbox LIVE to the Halo Anniversary engine and gameplay itself would make it unfaithful to the original version, and it would have been so much un needed work on top of that. Everything is different on LIVE also, what you expect to happen in Halo 1 on splitscreen or LAN, you could not expect on LIVE. You can know exactly where to lead your shots, where they hit and how many hit and know where the person really is on LAN or splitscreen…but simply because of latency on LIVE, everything would have changed. It would not be as anyone remembered it.
> >
> >
> > So, 343i built onto Reach’s multiplayer with gametypes very similar to classic Halo gameplay, great remade classic Halo maps, and a network infrastructure you know what to expect of already.
> >
> >
> > Also, I’m pretty sure the flexibility and versatility of Reach offers much more fun than ramming warthogs or warthog stunts in Halo 1. While fun, can it compare to all Reach has? Plus, you can download CEA maps to the real Reach disk so you can have the complete experience.
>
> I don’t see why they would think adding Xbox LIVE to the original MP would make it any more unfaithful than adding Co-op over LIVE…
>
> As far as latency changing everything, that simply isn’t true. Halo 2 worked unbelievably well, and connections were only half as good as they are nowadays. If you’re talking about how it is to play Halo CE on PC with the servers, that is simply from issues that weren’t addressed. If you look at any game today such as COD, BF, etc you can see there is very little difference between, say, online vs split-screen in terms of connectivity. The only real issue is lag, but that’s understandable considering the worlds infrastructure isn’t perfect of course. Like I said, I found Halo 2’s MP to be the best, and that was over LIVE and worked exceptionally well.
>
> Also, you said “everything would have changed. It would not be as anyone remembered it,” but how does just taking Reach MP and using that differ? It is going to be worlds different with the Reach MP in place of an updated original. Now that is definitely not how anybody remembers Halo.
>
> Fun in Reach isn’t what made Halo fun initially. Any more it’s about armor abilities/upgrades, customization matches, and forge. Initially Halo didn’t need any of that to be a solid and fun experience. Most of the additions made were actually based on community made-up mini-games that worked perfectly without any customizing. I’m talking about cat and mouse, tower of power, zombies, and since a lot of time has passed I’m sure I missed a lot more. What these things are any more in Halo are nothing like they used to be, and frankly, not as fun. At the end of the day fun is subjective though, but something that isn’t is the definition of a remake, and the multiplayer of Halo CEA is not a remake of Halo CE/2. I added the /2 because I can see it making sense to draw more so from Halo 2’s MP considering it did have LIVE functionality.

With the issue of Halo 2 working just fine, I cannot be a first hand judge of online play because I never played it online, but, I’ve seen plenty of Halo 2 videos, the ones where they weren’t host, the latency and funky lag was crazy. Of course some off host videos were fine, but I’ve seen things. Also, I play on cellphone tower Internet, moderate NAT, it’s mostly good but at times it has it’s moments. I doubt Halo 2 could have been as graceful as Reach is to my Internet…ergo it’d make since it’s netcode wasn’t as good. The reason Halo 1 PC servers lag is because there was an update somewhere along the line catering to 56K modems for some God forsaken reason, I’m not talking about their servers anyway.

Maybe if 343i improved Reach’s netcode even more and made it into Anniversary’s MP, it could be great…but nowhere did 343i ever say Anniversary was a perfect remake. If not for latency, it would everything else that could tarnish the image of Halo 1. Lack of players (because it’s the vocal people who want Anniversary MP, not the majority.), lack of working TruSkill, intentional cheaters, griefers, idiots, the possibility of something unique about the game being lost in the remake, so many things. To many, Halo 1 is the king of FPS, and to tack on terrible things that come with today’s gaming would turn Halo 1 into just another pawn.

Now, yes, Reach is even more different than the possibility of a true CEA MP, but it was a smart choice with all it has. Some could call it a cop-out, maybe it was, but everything in the game can be tweaked to what could make it feel like Halo 1, barring obvious things like physics.

The issue of ‘fun’ is silly. Fun in Halo 1 was made up by the community because no direct things for ‘fun’ was given, just a campaign, splitscreen, and LAN. Halo 1 didn’t need things like forge/custom games/theater/ETC NOT because Halo 1 was that great, but because the community found ways to entertain themselves. They always will. Now with things like Co op Campaign, custom games, and forge…people have the tools in game MEANT to be a blast, to give them a blast. Even then, they’ve done things the developers had no idea could be done and still invent fun that can not be done by in game mechanics by default.

9

Actually… Now that you mention the community creations, that reminds me of Halo 2 modding. I’m not talking about people that used auto-aim, etc (Although Bungie blocked most if not all modders within 1 hour of detection from matchmaking, very good system)

I’m talking about the creative mods. The only reason I even know about this is because I was one of the modders. (I knew I would be banned from matchmaking but I was alright with that since I usually only did customs anyway) Let me tell you… None of the customization options, Forge, etc can hold a candle to what people did with modding Halo 2. They were the ones who made races/tracks from existing entities which has grown into a big part in 3/Reach. They created entire maps, so finely detailed you’d think it was a 360 and not an original Xbox powering it. They created invasion maps similar to what people now see as Firefight mode, albeit the AI was very iffy, it gradually evolved into something very workable.

My point is, the inclusion of Forge and other customization factors did not introduce these things that you are saying add to the fun/content, it is the community, and the community has always done so despite not having Forge since Halo 1.

A couple examples:
Race track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi0XYxpJ-tk
Zombies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV-3vpXTETA
Tower of Power http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79f-iN0cnzY

Also… note the comments on the videos. This is really one of those things that if you weren’t there you might not understand how fun it really was.

The inclusion of the Reach MP does not do a remake of Halo justice… I honestly don’t know how to describe it. It’s like perfect simplicity.

10

I just realized I didn’t really respond to a few of your points in your last post, so I’ll do that now:

One thing I remember is it being said officially that they were going to keep true to what made Halo, Halo. The only reason I vividly remember this is because it is/was a massive deal to me. This single detail is what would keep me from getting the game, because I don’t want to play some mediocre throwback that doesn’t relate to the game it’s based off of in terms of a technical/gameplay standpoint.

That’s the primary reason I even bothered posting this thread.

As for who wants this and who doesn’t, as with any study in general you start with a sample size. Obviously you can’t get the opinion of every potential player, but if you get a sudden outcry from your player base, such as enough to spark a petition with a decent following, then that is definitely something you should look into. In this case it’s the inadequate representation of MP.

As I said earlier, modders were taken care of very efficiently in Halo 2 on XBL. As long as the developer is truly behind their game, you shouldn’t have to worry about cheaters because they will be able to combat it.

TruSkill isn’t the end all be all, as evidenced by plenty of other games that have working and stable rank systems.

You said, “and to tack on terrible things that come with today’s gaming would turn Halo 1 into just another pawn,” and I agree with that, but I’m not sure we have the same idea here, since I read in another thread you wanted Armor Abilities to be in the game. (Or that you wanted the option, I couldn’t tell which it was based on the posts) For me, I want it to be a strictly basic deal, just how it was in Halo 2.

I feel like I adequately responded to the other points in my previous post.

I’m going to sleep now, past 3AM here, but in the morning I’ll check back for responses.

11

Basically… CEA has the following:

Halo: CE Campaign HD remastered
REACH’s Multiplayer Matchmaking launchable from same disk
Said playlist will reflect Classic CE settings. Such as NO Armor Abilities and a 3SK Magnum!

With possible movement speed and jump height tweaks. They recently took down the Team Classic playlist IN PREPARATION for the Anniversary Playlist coming when CEA Releases Nov. 15th! :smiley:

Reach’s engine and physics do well to mimic CE gameplay as far as Health, the Magnum, so on so forth. It’s in good hands trust me.

IMHO it’s a way better package to a long time fan then even ODST. And I <33333333 ODST!

12

All I want is for it to be true to it’s roots, not another spin-off of another newer Halo. If that’s the case I guess I’ll wait for it to come out and see it for myself.

13

And when you say ‘true to its roots’ what do you mean? Because you either want CE playable on the 360 and LIVE or you want basically what you’ll get but you don’t know it yet.

14

I think they said that they couldn’t have Halo 1 Multiplayer on the xbox with Xbox Live, so they used reach’s multiplayer to create a new gameplay and experience.

15

> I think they said that they couldn’t have Halo 1 Multiplayer on the xbox with Xbox Live, so they used reach’s multiplayer to create a new gameplay and experience.

I’m sure they could, but I imagine it was pretty appetizing to use an already-made new engine and just tweak it. I’m just worried they are letting in the elements that are available in Reach into the remake’s MP experience. If they have a playlist where it’s TRULY like how it was then I won’t be upset at all, that would be great. I just don’t want to have to deal with armor abilities and such that weren’t in the original or 2.

16

> > I think they said that they couldn’t have Halo 1 Multiplayer on the xbox with Xbox Live, so they used reach’s multiplayer to create a new gameplay and experience.
>
> I’m sure they could, but I imagine it was pretty appetizing to use an already-made new engine and just tweak it. I’m just worried they are letting in the elements that are available in Reach into the remake’s MP experience. If they have a playlist where it’s TRULY like how it was then I won’t be upset at all, that would be great. I just don’t want to have to deal with armor abilities and such that weren’t in the original or 2.

I agree with the armor abilities. I don’t think they are all that great additions to halo in their current forms, and even had they been done right, they shouldn’t need to be included to make the game fun. that said, I like some of the armor abilites, but I wish they had been done as another version of equipment from 3, with limited use. also, I never want to see “evade” and “sprint” as an “armor ability” or anything like it ever again. “running” and “duck and cover” are basics of any combat situation, and don’t require a special program on to be installed via chip into your power suit. I was furious to no end when bungie put those two features as Armor abilities, despite my pleading to find an alternative. I’d rather have seen “power dash” or something, like an inhuman bull rush that can hurt what you collide with, then “sprint”. “evade” was also a rather ridiculous notion of an AA. at least “evade” was a sort of “inhuman” evade, but I don’t know why you are allowed to do it twice in succession. it should have a slight delay, carry you less far, and reduce damage from bursts like explosions and fall damage, not make you a sonic the hedgehog spartan.

17

> > I think they said that they couldn’t have Halo 1 Multiplayer on the xbox with Xbox Live, so they used reach’s multiplayer to create a new gameplay and experience.
>
> I’m sure they could, but I imagine it was pretty appetizing to use an already-made new engine and just tweak it. I’m just worried they are letting in the elements that are available in Reach into the remake’s MP experience. If they have a playlist where it’s TRULY like how it was then I won’t be upset at all, that would be great. I just don’t want to have to deal with armor abilities and such that weren’t in the original or 2.

This might clear up some things for ya. :slight_smile:
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/news/news-9783-Halo–Reach-s-Multiplayer-Gameplay-Tweaks-Revealed.html