How come Walshy, in the guys own words, -Yoink- all over the random challenger?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zj3hbEfWj0 Final score was 20-13 with AR only, on Haven where if you win a duel the respawning player has quite a shot to get to you while your still shieldless.
I don’t understand this post I feel like I must have missed the first half of the debate…
AR definitely takes skill. It’s easy to ‘steal’ or amass kills with it in a gametype where everyone ends up bunched together because of the bullet spray ,and therefore people call it a noob weapon… But any match 1v1 is going to require skill. You could fight with Plasma Pistols and Punchies and the better-skilled player would win.
You could fight 1v1 with any weapon in the game (launchers, incineration, sword, hammer, detonator…) and the more skilled player would win…
How can a non headshot weapon steal kills by firing into a crowd?
I can’t tell if you’re trolling me?
But… Because the AR has tremendous slow-down capabilities. Have you ever shot at someone with an AR while they were running away? Or been shot at by one while trying to run away? You slow down to a crawl and get decimated.
That’s one way. The other way is you could literally stand in the middle of a firefight, hold the trigger down, and spin in circles and get a few kills.
It also shoots out 100 bullets a second, so the chance of one of those bullets registering as the “kill shot” is fairly high when considering the chances vs. the 3 fro ma BR or 1 from a DMR… As long as they don’t get the headshot.
> How can a non headshot weapon steal kills by firing into a crowd?
It can’t.
Skill is not defined by the weapon alone. It’s the players movement, awareness, timing, and overall smarts is the key. The gun is just an extension of that.
Unless that weapon is the H2-H3 Plasma Pistol or any Automatic from Reach sans the Needler. Then you are putting you’re self at a disadvantage for no good reason in those cases ;/
This is Halo 4 however, where the automatics are not something you laugh at.
A large part of the community has hate towards automatics because you just hold down the trigger while the aim assist and bullet magnetism give you easy kills. Fact of the matter is the same assisting mechanics are on those rifles too.
I say, if you can outplay someone regardless of the weapon used, then the skill factor is still in the game.
A 1v1 match with ARs only is not an accurate view of the “weapon skillgap”…
This entire match is literally dueling in the center platform of Haven while the losing party uses the lift to get back to the center.
First reaction, best aim, jumping, using the center pylon for cover, shield recharge, movement… All of these things add up to what is called “skill” and it appears the winner had more of that.
> I can’t tell if you’re trolling me?
>
> But… Because the AR has tremendous slow-down capabilities. Have you ever shot at someone with an AR while they were running away? Or been shot at by one while trying to run away? You slow down to a crawl and get decimated.
>
> That’s one way. The other way is you could literally stand in the middle of a firefight, hold the trigger down, and spin in circles and get a few kills.
>
> It also shoots out 100 bullets a second, so the chance of one of those bullets registering as the “kill shot” is fairly high when considering the chances vs. the 3 fro ma BR or 1 from a DMR… As long as they don’t get the headshot.
I don’t think the AR has any slow down capabilities because when I engage a precision user with it and they run backwards, it seems like they move just as fast as I do.
And spinning in circles getting kills? You’re either trolling or stupid. You have to hold the trigger down for atleast half the clip on a single person to get a kill. No weapon in Halo has these kinds of “spray and pray” capabilities that you describe.
“100 bullets a second”. Try 6. And it’s much easier to make sure that each of your rounds hits someone with a precision weapon. The AR’s spread makes it so you are almost guaranteed not to land each shot unless you’re in melee range.
> > I can’t tell if you’re trolling me?
> >
> > But… Because the AR has tremendous slow-down capabilities. Have you ever shot at someone with an AR while they were running away? Or been shot at by one while trying to run away? You slow down to a crawl and get decimated.
> >
> > That’s one way. The other way is you could literally stand in the middle of a firefight, hold the trigger down, and spin in circles and get a few kills.
> >
> > It also shoots out 100 bullets a second, so the chance of one of those bullets registering as the “kill shot” is fairly high when considering the chances vs. the 3 fro ma BR or 1 from a DMR… As long as they don’t get the headshot.
>
> I don’t think the AR has any slow down capabilities because when I engage a precision user with it and they run backwards, it seems like they move just as fast as I do.
>
> And spinning in circles getting kills? You’re either trolling or stupid. You have to hold the trigger down for atleast half the clip on a single person to get a kill. No weapon in Halo has these kinds of “spray and pray” capabilities that you describe.
>
> “100 bullets a second”. Try 6. And it’s much easier to make sure that each of your rounds hits someone with a precision weapon. The AR’s spread makes it so you are almost guaranteed not to land each shot unless you’re in melee range.
Are you joking? You think it takes half a clip to kill someone who has no shield? If yo uare in the middle of a firefight. You can get a kill with any of the ‘6’ sprayed bullets per second. This is my point. And the AR has incredible slow down capability if the player is trying to run away. Walking backwards obviously is not going to be slowed down.
Because you’re not considering external elements such as player skill and positioning.
> > > I can’t tell if you’re trolling me?
> > >
> > > But… Because the AR has tremendous slow-down capabilities. Have you ever shot at someone with an AR while they were running away? Or been shot at by one while trying to run away? You slow down to a crawl and get decimated.
> > >
> > > That’s one way. The other way is you could literally stand in the middle of a firefight, hold the trigger down, and spin in circles and get a few kills.
> > >
> > > It also shoots out 100 bullets a second, so the chance of one of those bullets registering as the “kill shot” is fairly high when considering the chances vs. the 3 fro ma BR or 1 from a DMR… As long as they don’t get the headshot.
> >
> > I don’t think the AR has any slow down capabilities because when I engage a precision user with it and they run backwards, it seems like they move just as fast as I do.
> >
> > And spinning in circles getting kills? You’re either trolling or stupid. You have to hold the trigger down for atleast half the clip on a single person to get a kill. No weapon in Halo has these kinds of “spray and pray” capabilities that you describe.
> >
> > “100 bullets a second”. Try 6. And it’s much easier to make sure that each of your rounds hits someone with a precision weapon. The AR’s spread makes it so you are almost guaranteed not to land each shot unless you’re in melee range.
>
> Are you joking? You think it takes half a clip to kill someone who has no shield? If yo uare in the middle of a firefight. You can get a kill with any of the ‘6’ sprayed bullets per second. This is my point. And the AR has incredible slow down capability if the player is trying to run away. Walking backwards obviously is not going to be slowed down.
It’s half a clip to kill someone with FULL shields. I don’t see where anything else comes into play. And regards to firefights, you’re much better off picking off people with a precision weapon. PWs get easier kill-steals by far. It takes 6 rounds to kill someone with no shields with the AR. It takes ONE headshot. And you’re definitely a new Halo player if you think headshots are hard in this game…
> How come Walshy, in the guys own words, Yoink! all over the random challenger?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zj3hbEfWj0 Final score was 20-13 with AR only, on Haven where if you win a duel the respawning player has quite a shot to get to you while your still shieldless.
Skill is not entirely weapon based. Console games are less about how good you aim, and more about how you outhink your opponent. Aim only counts for a small bit, I can have really good aim, but if I make really bad decisions and fail to play smart, I will still get destroyed.
Walshy didn’t win because he was better with the weapon. He won, because he was the better played. He moved smarter, and he outthought the challenger.
There is no “Outshooting” with an AR, because it’s not difficult to aim with. You can still, however, outhink and out play people, which is exactly what Walshy did.
If they reduced the bullet magnetism in H4, the AR would be fine.
And you can easily get kills with the AR by firing into group of people BECAUSE of the bullet magnetism…
> It’s half a clip to kill someone with FULL shields. I don’t see where anything else comes into play. And regards to firefights, you’re much better off picking off people with a precision weapon. PWs get easier kill-steals by far. It takes 6 rounds to kill someone with no shields with the AR. It takes ONE headshot. And you’re definitely a new Halo player if you think headshots are hard in this game…
I think you need to go back and re-read this thread man. I don’t even know what you are arguing for anymore.
My point was the AR gets a bad reputation because of the bulletstorm and how a stray auto-bullet can steal a kill. Imagine a situation where your teammate is using a DMR and lands 3 headshots on the enemy and you jump iun with an AR spraying like Rambo and get the kills because one of your 6 bullets was the last to touch the victim, as opposed to youer teammates 1 DMR bullet. You get it?
Obviously headshots aren’t difficult. If you look at my record I’ve mastered both the DMR and BR as well as the bullet in the brain commendation, so, I have no problem with headshots.
BUt, this thread was never about “IS THE AR BETTER OR WORSE THAN PRECISION WEAPONS?” Obviously, yes, in anything more than 5 steps away a precision weapon is going to outclass anh AR. Even closer it is a tossup.
The thread was about whether the AR has a skill gap or not. And the answer is yes. Any weapon you use is only as effective as the player using it.
So a players skill defines how good they will be with any weapon? including the Assault Rifle?
> So a players skill defines how good they will be with any weapon? including the Assault Rifle?
Yes. Weapon effectiveness relative to individual skill.
> So a players skill defines how good they will be with any weapon? including the Assault Rifle?
Yes absolutely. In a 1v1 situation where both players are using the same gun, the better player will win 8 times out of ten. (Gotta account for luck).
Some people are so good it transcends using the same weapon. Some people could consistently win using a pistol versus an AR or any other weapon. It all depends on how good one player is and how good (or bad) the other player is.
Positioning, movement, timing, forethought, planning, etc. Are all MUCH more important than the weapon used.
> > The thread was about whether the AR has a skill gap or not. And the answer is yes.
>
> No, Player A may beat Player B with a crutch weapon, but that doesn’t mean he was better with the crutch weapon, he was just a better player. Crutch weapons are meant to have no skill curve, but high accessibility. Because they’re for babies.
> My point was the AR gets a bad reputation because of the bulletstorm and how a stray auto-bullet can steal a kill. Imagine a situation where your teammate is using a DMR and lands 3 headshots on the enemy and you jump iun with an AR spraying like Rambo and get the kills because one of your 6 bullets was the last to touch the victim, as opposed to youer teammates 1 DMR bullet. You get it?
First, headshots don’t do extra damage against shields. Do you even Halo?
Second, kill steal situations occur MUCH more often when an AR user gets someone down to no shields and a PW user picks them off from long range with a headshot, whilst the AR user would have had to sit there for another half second pelting them in the torso. Even in the situation you described, the fact that a single headshot can kill someone makes the AR almost impossible to get kill steals.
> > > The thread was about whether the AR has a skill gap or not. And the answer is yes.
> >
> > No, Player A may beat Player B with a crutch weapon, but that doesn’t mean he was better with the crutch weapon, he was just a better player. Crutch weapons are meant to have no skill curve, but high accessibility. Because they’re for babies.
>
> What?
>
> By your logic… If player A wins with the AR, it doesn’t mean he is better with the AR, it means he is better.
>
> This is the same thing? You are talking about two different skill sets.
>
> A player can be “bad” at Halo and very good with a certain weapon (say the AR), Player B can be very “good” at Halo, but lose over and over to Player A when both are using the AR. In that case Player A is just better WITH THE AR.
>
> You would need several trials over different game types with different weapons to determine who was truly better, and several trials with the same weapons to determine who was better with which weapon.