Ideas to keep some "Smart-scope" functions in game

Many may argue that zoom functions on full auto weapons destroys weapon balance, I do agree in that aspect. A way to keep it more balanced is to remove bullet magnetism, and make every weapon projectile based, rather than hitscan. That would mean players would have to lead targets, and make sure every round counts. This way, smart scope doesn’t detract from balancing when it comes to using full auto weapons as opposed to burst and single fire weapons.

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*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

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I don’t really have a problem with smart scope so much as I have a problem with smart scope being universally applied to the entire sandbox. Although I think that smart scope is a downgrade from traditional zoom in terms of visibility, speed, and lore, I can’t really blame anyone if they want the aesthetics of smart scope to stay. That being said I hate that smart scope is thrown onto every weapon in the sandbox.

Whether or not a weapon is capable of using a scope is an incredibly important design tool. The ability to use a scope is what makes the Focus Rifle more than a Covenant sentinel beam. The ODST SMG was special because it had the unique ability to zoom unlike other otherwise similar weapons.

You might vary the zoom to some degree, but the end result is that many of the weapons end up feeling a lot more “samey” than they otherwise would. We end up with a broad category of “automatics” rather than a series of unique weapons that happen to be automatic.

I’d love for them to lower bullet magnetism. I’m fine with projectile based too if it isn’t too crazy, something along the lines of Apex feels pretty good. Even with those changes though I’d like zoom to be taken out of automatics/shotguns. It’s one thing to just have a zoom but they also get an accuracy increase, pretty crazy to me.

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While I certainly prefer it over classic ADS (call it smart scope as much as you guys like, but it’s just ADS without the speed drop…), it’s still a zoom factor on an automatic weapon. I think H2-Reach did it best by adding a build in HUD zoom when using a weapon without a scope, but you drop it when shooting or getting shot at. Not to mention the biggest issue is still with melee weapons imho. You can’t resolve it by just dropping the magnetism by a notch.

The only way ADS in Halo could work imho is by being solely a graphical overhaul of the classic zoom. It should work exactly like it used to speed and functionality wise, but at the same time adding the “cool factor” so many want. In any case don’t repeat the errors from H5G and make it a choice instead of forcing it upon us. Zoom >>> ADS, it’s as simple as that really!

EDIT: and apparently single-player PC mods are prohibited discussion points here.The more time I’m on this forum the more disappointed I get! :’)

I agree they definitely need to remove ads on all the automatics, shotguns, and melee weapons except maybe the SMG. I think that is the only automatic where ads actually works imo.

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> While I certainly prefer it over classic ADS (call it smart scope as much as you guys like, but it’s just ADS without the speed drop…), it’s still a zoom factor on an automatic weapon. I think H2-Reach did it best by adding a build in HUD zoom when using a weapon without a scope, but you drop when shooting or getting shot at. Not to mention the biggest issue is still with melee weapons imho. You can’t resolve it by just dropping the magnetism by a notch.
>
> The only way ADS in Halo could work imho is by being solely a graphical overhaul of the classic zoom. It should work exactly like it used to speed and functionality wise, but at the same time adding the “cool factor” so many want. In any case don’t repeat the errors from H5G and make it a choice instead of forcing it upon us. Zoom >>> ADS, it’s as simple as that really!

I tend to agree with you on most of this, but is there a reason that there can’t be just one automatic weapon capable of zoom? Obviously I would not want it handily outperforming precision weapons, but surely there is some room for some form of an ODST SMG or an SPV3 AR in the sandbox?

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> > > Interesting. I kind of want the assault rifle to zoom in the way it does in the spv3 mod.
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> > While I certainly prefer it over classic ADS (call it smart scope as much as you guys like, but it’s just ADS without the speed drop…), it’s still a zoom factor on an automatic weapon. I think H2-Reach did it best by adding a build in HUD zoom when using a weapon without a scope, but you drop when shooting or getting shot at. Not to mention the biggest issue is still with melee weapons imho. You can’t resolve it by just dropping the magnetism by a notch.
> >
> > The only way ADS in Halo could work imho is by being solely a graphical overhaul of the classic zoom. It should work exactly like it used to speed and functionality wise, but at the same time adding the “cool factor” so many want. In any case don’t repeat the errors from H5G and make it a choice instead of forcing it upon us. Zoom >>> ADS, it’s as simple as that really!
>
> I tend to agree with you on most of this, but is there a reason that there can’t be just one automatic weapon capable of zoom? Obviously I would not want it handily outperforming precision weapons, but surely there is some room for some form of an ODST SMG or an SPV3 AR in the sandbox?

It’s all a matter of balancing really! :slight_smile:

A zoom on a weapon is an advantage, having an automatic on top of that can be really OP when done wrong (which imo i exactly the case of H5G btw). That said you’re right, the sandbox has plenty of room for an automatic weapon with some sort of zoom function. The ODST SMG cold be such a weapon, the “AR from the single player PC mod #3 I’m apparently not allowed to mention” on the other hand I can see working brilliantly in single player, but it would repeat the mistakes committed with H5 in MP - especially if it has fairly low kill times, extra head-shot damage and less spread when zoomed in. The reason why I think the silenced SMG is a good choice for a scope/zoom however, is because it’s a fairly weak and yet a great utility weapon! It has head-shot capability, it’s an automatic which is easier to handle in a game and the silencer makes is hard to locate you (you don’t show up on a radar while shooting f.e., also no muzzle flash and less smoke), but in a direct combat situation it still loses against other automatics and precision weapons, at least on mid range.

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> > > > Interesting. I kind of want the assault rifle to zoom in the way it does in the spv3 mod.
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> > > While I certainly prefer it over classic ADS (call it smart scope as much as you guys like, but it’s just ADS without the speed drop…), it’s still a zoom factor on an automatic weapon. I think H2-Reach did it best by adding a build in HUD zoom when using a weapon without a scope, but you drop when shooting or getting shot at. Not to mention the biggest issue is still with melee weapons imho. You can’t resolve it by just dropping the magnetism by a notch.
> > >
> > > The only way ADS in Halo could work imho is by being solely a graphical overhaul of the classic zoom. It should work exactly like it used to speed and functionality wise, but at the same time adding the “cool factor” so many want. In any case don’t repeat the errors from H5G and make it a choice instead of forcing it upon us. Zoom >>> ADS, it’s as simple as that really!
> >
> > I tend to agree with you on most of this, but is there a reason that there can’t be just one automatic weapon capable of zoom? Obviously I would not want it handily outperforming precision weapons, but surely there is some room for some form of an ODST SMG or an SPV3 AR in the sandbox?
>
> It’s all a matter of balancing really! :slight_smile:
>
> A zoom on a weapon is an advantage, having an automatic on top of that can be really OP when done wrong (which imo i exactly the case of H5G btw). That said you’re right, the sandbox has plenty of room for an automatic weapon with some sort of zoom function. The ODST SMG cold be such a weapon, the SPV3 AR on the other hand I can see working brilliantly in single player, but it would repeat the mistakes committed with H5 in MP - especially if it has fairly low kill times, extra head-shot damage and less spread when zoomed in. The reason why I think the silenced SMG is a good choice for a scope/zoom however, is because it’s a fairly weak and yet a great utility weapon! It has head-shot capability, it’s an automatic which is easier to handle in a game and the silencer makes is hard to locate you (you don’t show up on a radar while shooting f.e., also no muzzle flash and less smoke), but in a direct combat situation it still loses against other automatics and precision weapons, at least on mid range.

wow. My opinions keep turning into big discussions. You know, one time a took out a sniper jackal with an smg from like, a thousand feet away.

Got more discussion than I anticipated, wow! I’ve thought of, well not necessarily a work around, but maybe a tweak that could be more visually appealing. I saw in some H5 concept art, they(343) toyed with the notion that the Smart Link system was fixed to the left side of the assault rifle and that would display as holographic-augmented reality projection with moderate zoom. It think a cool idea is to have something similar, but when “ADS-ing” the player character rotates the rifle over and peers down the right side of the weapon, keeping the in line with the bore axis, and that holographic display pops up there. Think of having canted iron sights/red dots on modern rifles. While this is entirely cosmetic, I could help provide a more focused aiming solution. But I think bullet magnetism needs to be scaled back drastically, for all weapons, save for target lock-on types like the needler, Hydra, rocket launcher, etc.

In halo 5 I have yet to see an automatic out perform the dmr and br in their medium-long range niche. With out smart scope or with smart scope. Unless the precision weapon person lands no shots. Then they’re going to win because the auto isn’t in respective range and if you’re landing shots you can’t smartscope anyways. I’m not really affected with smartscope. I would like some cooler ones. Things like the morph sight on the light rifle I think it would be pretty neat to have different versions of it. Or different types of sights

I just think severely reducing this element is going to be a good mechanical move to get Infinite feeling less like Guardians. Whether or not you like Halo 5, the general tepidness to outright negativity that surrounds the games reputation industry wide is the sort of stank Infinite will very much want to distance itself from. I think we’re seeing this already in the PR messaging and art style revisions we’ve already been shown.

All the smartscoping and ADS elements introduced in Halo 5 are unique to that game in the entire series. Since Infinite looks to be harkening back to a more classic aesthetic in general, I think it’s prudent to deeply reduce or outright abandon the implementation of this stuff.

Maybe having it present on one or two weapons in the entire game will keep it feeling useful but like a unique benefit of those particular weapons. The place this seems the least problematic is on the SMG and Classic Plasma Rifle (if they elect to bring that back into the sandbox, hopefully as a replacement for the unremarkable Storm Rifle we’ve been forced to use these past few games).

I don’t mind having smart-link in Halo Infinite if it works similarly to H5. When I first heard ADS was going to be in H5 I was very alarmed, but it was really not a big deal. None of the cqc weapons are made OP by it, as precision weapons will beat out an auto at medium range. Descope still also exists. It actually adds a nice continuity having all weapons with scopes.

My opinion on it is that not all weapons should have the feature as it does take away some uniqueness from some weapons. I still think there should be some autos to have it like for example the AR, Silenced SMG, and a new Storm Rifle (whereas the Plasma Rifle would come back as well but without a ADS feature).

I would prefer smart scope be dropped entirely. Your in a suit of armor, it’s really hard to get a cheek weld with those weapons. Just bring back smart link, like in the older Halo games, and add it to more weapons, like the assault rifle. Think SPV3 assault rifle zoom function.

i like smart link in precision weapons, but it shouldn’t be a thing with the AR, SMG, and other power weapons that are full auto.

Dude, my original post got blocked. I didn’t even mod anything!

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> Dude, my original post got blocked. I didn’t even mod anything!

I’m sorry for that, but apparently we’re not allowed to mention that a certain HCE single player PC mod in its third instalment exists. :man_shrugging: So at least I got told, but you’re the first one I see that actually got modded for doing so (no pun intended). In fact until now I thought they were bullyoinking me. I mean, its a freaking single player mod from a game that you have to own, what’s the harm in that? There is no way they would ban it!

And yet here we are! They banned one of the two things for why I’m even still here in this community to begin with, and frankly I would have skipped HW2 too if it wasn’t for that mod. It’s sad as well, because there are so many good examples and modern mechanics that we could talk about, it would only add to the ADS discussion and than some.

Bravo! I hope Xbox Studios and 343i are proud of themselves! :slight_smile:

I wouldn’t mind Smart Scope that much if it weren’t for the mechanic giving off a generic shooter vibe with its aesthetics, and that all weapons especially close-quarters firearms and automatic weapons. It felt forced with all the weapons giving you the ability to zoom in so you can get a little more range to hit your target with no unique changes to the gameplay.

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> A way to keep it more balanced is to remove bullet magnetism, and make every weapon projectile based, rather than hitscan. That would mean players would have to lead targets, and make sure every round counts.

I wish it was that simple, but if you consider external factors such as movement, sprint, spartan abilities and map design - I think this solution will worsen the issue rather than mitigating it.

I want the scopes back from halo 4 I love those ones!!