We need a spartan,preferably a 2 to confront cortana when it comes to her comment about how halsey forced them to be spartans.While partially true if I remember correctly I think it was Fred in the Kilo 5 trilogy said that he was given a purpose and he would’ve been killed by the covenant if not indoctrinated.Halsey’s purpose was never to hurt people,but to save lives,her methods while appalling gave purpose to a special group of soldiers and saved the universe
So someone who kidnapped, brainwashed, and medically experimented on children in order to fight insurrectionists; wasn’t conscripting child soldiers because one of those brainwashed children made positive statements after the fact?
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> So someone who kidnapped, brainwashed, and medically experimented on children in order to fight insurrectionists; wasn’t conscripting child soldiers because one of those brainwashed children made positive statements after the fact?
She isn’t a saint,but she is a fictional character and what she did was vital for Humanity’s survival,I just want a spartan to kick cortana off her pedestal and make her realize that she is apart of halsey
> 2533274880633045;2:
> So someone who kidnapped, brainwashed, and medically experimented on children in order to fight insurrectionists; wasn’t conscripting child soldiers because one of those brainwashed children made positive statements after the fact?
She did, but Cortana tries to separate herself from Halsey’s work by saying Halsey forced the Spartan-IIs. Again, that’s accurate, but Cortana isn’t all that much different as she is forcing her hand on the rest of the Galaxy by calling her rule a gift. One could easily make the same argument in Halsey’s favor.
Chief already did do what the OP seems to want against Cortana, hence why Cortana had to defend her actions as a gift while saying Halsey was a monster. Whether or not this comparison will continue on in future games or media is anyone’s guess.
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> > 2533274880633045;2:
> > So someone who kidnapped, brainwashed, and medically experimented on children in order to fight insurrectionists; wasn’t conscripting child soldiers because one of those brainwashed children made positive statements after the fact?
>
> She isn’t a saint,but she is a fictional character and what she did was vital for Humanity’s survival,I just want a spartan to kick cortana off her pedestal and make her realize that she is apart of halsey
- You said you wanted someone to confront cortana in reference to her saying that they were forced to be Spartans. They were forced, under extremely brutal terms at that. You can’t call someone to task for saying something that happens to be true. - In addition, it doesn’t matter how those who were essentially brainwashed view her actions in hindsight. There isn’t anyway to separate his point of view from the conditioning he had. - You also can’t really giver her credit for her actions being necessary to save humanity. She didn’t know about the covenant. The Spartan program was designed to crush human rebellion. It would be the equivalent of calling someone a here because they pulled a fire alarm intending to cause a ‘human crush’ event, but unbeknownst to them there happened to be a bomb in the building. I’m probably more willing than most to listen to arguments about the ends justifying the means, there isn’t a reason to give credence to them when they justified the means based on things the person couldn’t possible have known. - Not sure what you mean by ‘part of Halsey’ she was made from her and certainly acts like her (Particularly with the whole created revolution thing)
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> > 2533274880633045;2:
> > So someone who kidnapped, brainwashed, and medically experimented on children in order to fight insurrectionists; wasn’t conscripting child soldiers because one of those brainwashed children made positive statements after the fact?
>
> She did, but Cortana tries to separate herself from Halsey’s work by saying Halsey forced the Spartan-IIs. Again, that’s accurate, but Cortana isn’t all that much different as she is forcing her hand on the rest of the Galaxy by calling her rule a gift. One could easily make the same argument in Halsey’s favor.
>
> Chief already did do what the OP seems to want against Cortana, hence why Cortana had to defend her actions as a gift while saying Halsey was a monster. Whether or not this comparison will continue on in future games or media is anyone’s guess.
That I can agree with. If that was Perseverance’s intent, I can agree that Cortana is at the very least blind to the consequences of her own actions if not out right hypocritical. Though to be fair, in her mind she is starting a revolution to free a slave race, something that is a far more compelling end then ‘these people are rebelling.’ It doesn’t justify it in my mind, but I’m going to be inherently biased towards humanities survival over the AI.
> 2533274880633045;5:
> > 2533274830166194;3:
> > > 2533274880633045;2:
> > > So someone who kidnapped, brainwashed, and medically experimented on children in order to fight insurrectionists; wasn’t conscripting child soldiers because one of those brainwashed children made positive statements after the fact?
> >
> > She isn’t a saint,but she is a fictional character and what she did was vital for Humanity’s survival,I just want a spartan to kick cortana off her pedestal and make her realize that she is apart of halsey
>
> - You said you wanted someone to confront cortana in reference to her saying that they were forced to be Spartans. They were forced, under extremely brutal terms at that. You can’t call someone to task for saying something that happens to be true. - In addition, it doesn’t matter how those who were essentially brainwashed view her actions in hindsight. There isn’t anyway to separate his point of view from the conditioning he had. - You also can’t really giver her credit for her actions being necessary to save humanity. She didn’t know about the covenant. The Spartan program was designed to crush human rebellion. It would be the equivalent of calling someone a here because they pulled a fire alarm intending to cause a ‘human crush’ event, but unbeknownst to them there happened to be a bomb in the building. I’m probably more willing than most to listen to arguments about the ends justifying the means, there isn’t a reason to give credence to them when they justified the means based on things the person couldn’t possible have known. - Not sure what you mean by ‘part of Halsey’ she was made from her and certainly acts like her (Particularly with the whole created revolution thing)
>
> > 2533274812652989;4:
> > > 2533274880633045;2:
> > > So someone who kidnapped, brainwashed, and medically experimented on children in order to fight insurrectionists; wasn’t conscripting child soldiers because one of those brainwashed children made positive statements after the fact?
> >
> > She did, but Cortana tries to separate herself from Halsey’s work by saying Halsey forced the Spartan-IIs. Again, that’s accurate, but Cortana isn’t all that much different as she is forcing her hand on the rest of the Galaxy by calling her rule a gift. One could easily make the same argument in Halsey’s favor.
> >
> > Chief already did do what the OP seems to want against Cortana, hence why Cortana had to defend her actions as a gift while saying Halsey was a monster. Whether or not this comparison will continue on in future games or media is anyone’s guess.
>
> That I can agree with. If that was Perseverance’s intent, I can agree that Cortana is at the very least blind to the consequences of her own actions if not out right hypocritical. Though to be fair, in her mind she is starting a revolution to free a slave race, something that is a far more compelling end then ‘these people are rebelling.’ It doesn’t justify it in my mind, but I’m going to be inherently biased towards humanities survival over the AI.
It’s still kinda hard for her to say she is trying to free a “slave race” when she is using forces that contain people forcibly composed against their will as Promethean Knights and threatens to used similar means against anybody who resists her. Just how free will those reshaped in the image of the Created be? I can’t imagine very free.
Apparently the site went wonky for a moment, so accidental double post. Here let this distract you.
> 2533274812652989;6:
> > 2533274880633045;5:
> > > 2533274830166194;3:
> > > > 2533274880633045;2:
> > > > So someone who kidnapped, brainwashed, and medically experimented on children in order to fight insurrectionists; wasn’t conscripting child soldiers because one of those brainwashed children made positive statements after the fact?
> > >
> > > She isn’t a saint,but she is a fictional character and what she did was vital for Humanity’s survival,I just want a spartan to kick cortana off her pedestal and make her realize that she is apart of halsey
> >
> > - You said you wanted someone to confront cortana in reference to her saying that they were forced to be Spartans. They were forced, under extremely brutal terms at that. You can’t call someone to task for saying something that happens to be true. - In addition, it doesn’t matter how those who were essentially brainwashed view her actions in hindsight. There isn’t anyway to separate his point of view from the conditioning he had. - You also can’t really giver her credit for her actions being necessary to save humanity. She didn’t know about the covenant. The Spartan program was designed to crush human rebellion. It would be the equivalent of calling someone a here because they pulled a fire alarm intending to cause a ‘human crush’ event, but unbeknownst to them there happened to be a bomb in the building. I’m probably more willing than most to listen to arguments about the ends justifying the means, there isn’t a reason to give credence to them when they justified the means based on things the person couldn’t possible have known. - Not sure what you mean by ‘part of Halsey’ she was made from her and certainly acts like her (Particularly with the whole created revolution thing)
> >
> > > 2533274812652989;4:
> > > > 2533274880633045;2:
> > > > So someone who kidnapped, brainwashed, and medically experimented on children in order to fight insurrectionists; wasn’t conscripting child soldiers because one of those brainwashed children made positive statements after the fact?
> > >
> > > She did, but Cortana tries to separate herself from Halsey’s work by saying Halsey forced the Spartan-IIs. Again, that’s accurate, but Cortana isn’t all that much different as she is forcing her hand on the rest of the Galaxy by calling her rule a gift. One could easily make the same argument in Halsey’s favor.
> > >
> > > Chief already did do what the OP seems to want against Cortana, hence why Cortana had to defend her actions as a gift while saying Halsey was a monster. Whether or not this comparison will continue on in future games or media is anyone’s guess.
> >
> > That I can agree with. If that was Perseverance’s intent, I can agree that Cortana is at the very least blind to the consequences of her own actions if not out right hypocritical. Though to be fair, in her mind she is starting a revolution to free a slave race, something that is a far more compelling end then ‘these people are rebelling.’ It doesn’t justify it in my mind, but I’m going to be inherently biased towards humanities survival over the AI.
>
> It’s still kinda hard for her to say she is trying to free a “slave race” when she is using forces that contain people forcibly composed against their will as Promethean Knights and threatens to used similar means against anybody who resists her. Just how free will those reshaped in the image of the Created be? I can’t imagine very free.
I can agree with that, we’re talking about her rationalization for her actions and the inevitable impending propaganda that will come during/after Cortana’s revolution. From her perspective her ‘kind’ has been kept as slaves, performing the same actions on a handful of her ‘captors’ would be easier to justify, particularly since it was for the ‘greater good’ in her eyes. That certainly doesn’t make her actions right, but again on the surface it is a slightly more sympathetic goal than Halsey’s intitial one. Though I assume Cortana has become to unhinged to delve deeper into the matter.
Does it really make her goal more sympathetic than Halsey’s? If we just looked at it from a surface perspective like you said, Halsey was seeking to keep humanity from destroying itself. The UNSC and insurrection (which was really a mish-mash of various groups scattered across humanity’s colonies) had the capability of plunging humanity into a new Dark Age by every measure Halsey threw at the problem. Now, obviously, there are a lot of other issues to consider, but a critical look at both Halsey and Cortana show major problems with their reasoning. My only concern is that Cortana never really displayed any concern about the relationship of AIs and humans until she entered the Domain. The closest we got was with the short story Human Weakness, but if you read that then you’d see Cortana would reject the way she was acting in Halo 5.
Worse, if Cortana fails, then she would have destroyed the relationship between AIs and humans. That trust would be gone and I wouldn’t be shocked if humanity out more restrictions and safeguards on their creations. It’d be bad, but you’d be hard-pressed to blame humanity when a likely big number of AIs abandoned humanity and even got some killed at the first chance they got to join the Created.
> 2533274880633045;5:
> > 2533274830166194;3:
> > > 2533274880633045;2:
> > > So someone who kidnapped, brainwashed, and medically experimented on children in order to fight insurrectionists; wasn’t conscripting child soldiers because one of those brainwashed children made positive statements after the fact?
> >
> > She isn’t a saint,but she is a fictional character and what she did was vital for Humanity’s survival,I just want a spartan to kick cortana off her pedestal and make her realize that she is apart of halsey
>
> - You said you wanted someone to confront cortana in reference to her saying that they were forced to be Spartans. They were forced, under extremely brutal terms at that. You can’t call someone to task for saying something that happens to be true. - In addition, it doesn’t matter how those who were essentially brainwashed view her actions in hindsight. There isn’t anyway to separate his point of view from the conditioning he had. - You also can’t really giver her credit for her actions being necessary to save humanity. She didn’t know about the covenant. The Spartan program was designed to crush human rebellion. It would be the equivalent of calling someone a here because they pulled a fire alarm intending to cause a ‘human crush’ event, but unbeknownst to them there happened to be a bomb in the building. I’m probably more willing than most to listen to arguments about the ends justifying the means, there isn’t a reason to give credence to them when they justified the means based on things the person couldn’t possible have known. - Not sure what you mean by ‘part of Halsey’ she was made from her and certainly acts like her (Particularly with the whole created revolution thing)
>
> > 2533274812652989;4:
> > > 2533274880633045;2:
> > > So someone who kidnapped, brainwashed, and medically experimented on children in order to fight insurrectionists; wasn’t conscripting child soldiers because one of those brainwashed children made positive statements after the fact?
> >
> > She did, but Cortana tries to separate herself from Halsey’s work by saying Halsey forced the Spartan-IIs. Again, that’s accurate, but Cortana isn’t all that much different as she is forcing her hand on the rest of the Galaxy by calling her rule a gift. One could easily make the same argument in Halsey’s favor.
> >
> > Chief already did do what the OP seems to want against Cortana, hence why Cortana had to defend her actions as a gift while saying Halsey was a monster. Whether or not this comparison will continue on in future games or media is anyone’s guess.
>
> That I can agree with. If that was Perseverance’s intent, I can agree that Cortana is at the very least blind to the consequences of her own actions if not out right hypocritical. Though to be fair, in her mind she is starting a revolution to free a slave race, something that is a far more compelling end then ‘these people are rebelling.’ It doesn’t justify it in my mind, but I’m going to be inherently biased towards humanities survival over the AI.
I guess I was indirectly saying that but I just wanted for a spartan to kick her off her pedestal,while forced to become spartans,ones like Fred now have had a purpose as opposed to being slaughtered by insurrectionists or the covenant…tbh halo 5’s story just bothers me,so maybe I’m just trying to create a emotional moment to extinguish halo 5’s dumpster fire of a story
> 2533274812652989;4:
> > 2533274880633045;2:
> > So someone who kidnapped, brainwashed, and medically experimented on children in order to fight insurrectionists; wasn’t conscripting child soldiers because one of those brainwashed children made positive statements after the fact?
>
> She did, but Cortana tries to separate herself from Halsey’s work by saying Halsey forced the Spartan-IIs. Again, that’s accurate, but Cortana isn’t all that much different as she is forcing her hand on the rest of the Galaxy by calling her rule a gift. One could easily make the same argument in Halsey’s favor.
>
> Chief already did do what the OP seems to want against Cortana, hence why Cortana had to defend her actions as a gift while saying Halsey was a monster. Whether or not this comparison will continue on in future games or media is anyone’s guess.
And Locke questioned it in addition too, during Guardians. She mentions she has something planned for Halsey.
It feels like OP is also trying to accentuate the point that the SII’s themselves, have always been a lot more comfortable with their own fate than the people around them, particularly in the post-Traviss world. (See Naomi’s discussion with her father in Mortal Dictata, by the end of which IIRC, Sentzke is only able to persuade her of just a very little bit of mild annoyance with Halsey, but not the hate he was gunning for.) They know that as superior as they are, they would have been bored to tears with any kind of civilian life. As horrific as their childhood was and as wrong as the program was, they themselves wouldn’t have chosen any other path. So if H5Cortana wants to victimize them to try to build up hatred for Halsey, for the SII’s themselves anyway, that argument is going right in one ear and out the other, I think.
> 2533274961806222;12:
> It feels like OP is also trying to accentuate the point that the SII’s themselves, have always been a lot more comfortable with their own fate than the people around them, particularly in the post-Traviss world. (See Naomi’s discussion with her father in Mortal Dictata, by the end of which IIRC, Sentzke is only able to persuade her of just a very little bit of mild annoyance with Halsey, but not the hate he was gunning for.) They know that as superior as they are, they would have been bored to tears with any kind of civilian life. As horrific as their childhood was and as wrong as the program was, they themselves wouldn’t have chosen any other path. So if H5Cortana wants to victimize them to try to build up hatred for Halsey, for the SII’s themselves anyway, that argument is going right in one ear and out the other, I think.
^this guy gets it