I think the Spartan IV's might need a rewrite

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I’m not saying a new generation of Spartans is a bad thing in fact it does seem like a logical choice since the last 3 were very successful and expensive. I think Spartan IV’s shouldn’t be what we know them to be now. They have created a gap that i don’t think can be fixed unless they get changes and that gap is the Spartan IV to ODST.

ODST were already the badass of the badass and now the Spartan IV’s are the best of the ODST. ODST’s were humanities best of the best but Spartan IV’s are the best of the best of the best and they still aren’t at the top. It is very clear that troops like the ODST have been made obsolete with Spartan IV’s. Not only can they do everything an ODST can but they are the genetic better of them. I’m a huge elite fan and i was hurt to see elites striped from the MP but that was just the MP ODST fans have to bare witness to what they love being destroyed.

So i say 343i needs to chance a few things around with the Spartan IV’s so they don’t just out cast the ODST’s. Instead of making its so that only the best of the ODST can become Spartans make it like with the Spartan II’s. Only those with certain genes can become a Spartan IV rather than those who are lucky, have connections and are the best. I understand making the best better but I think it would be a very difficult job to single out which ODST’s who are already the best for being less than the others. The choice would be ever harder because some troopers specialize in certain areas.

Its sort of like asking who’s the best out of the Spartan II’s. It really depends on what your looking for.

2

Strongly disagree.

There’s no reason for us to have ODST’s. Spartan IV’s are, as you said, technologically, genetically superior. We can have ODST armor, or a special sub-section of Spartan IV’s similar to ODST, but there’s no reason for ODST’s to come back.

Instead of saying “only the best ODST’s became Spartan IVs” couldn’t we simply say “every ODST became a Spartan IV”? It only makes sense to give your best class of soldiers better gear.

3

I don’t get what you’re trying to say. Are you saying that the ODSTs are redundant now because of the Spartan IV program?

The ODSTs are far from redundant as the Spartan IVs operate under a different style of warfare. They don’t drop behind enemy lines anymore, they conduct the same kind of warfare that the Spartans before them did (Which was mostly front line stuff, a lot of “spec ops” type unconventional warfare as well though).

It makes sense to pick those who are the best of the best. Someone with better genes might not be as good of a soldier as the hardened vet as experience and training are more important than genetics.

Spartans are also expensive and so there will be a lot more ODSTs than Spartans.

Don’t forget either that Spartan IVs don’t just come from the ODSTs. They come from the Marine Corps, Army, SPECWARCOM, Air Force etc. Spartans are taken from every branch of the UNSC.

4

I say keep ODST’s. Think of it as a proving ground to be a Spartan, of course some are so good they can bypass ODST level (Thorne).

5

As of now the base criteria for selecting Spartan-IVs are veterans and people who show great potential, with the occasional Marine like Madsen getting in because his father and grandfather are generals. I would have to say ODSTs are still necessary. It would be like saying we don’t need the Green Berets because we have Navy SEALs.

6

It is still not exactly clear how large the Spartan IV program is. 343 can go either way. Even with all the progress the UNSC has made cost may still be a factor.

Spartans are effective but the cost and time investment required to train and equip them probably keeps them from replacing ODSTs entirely just yet.

If they can send Spartans on a mission than they probably will, but they can’t be everywhere at once.

I think many forget that the S-IV program is in large part an ethical change from past Spartan Programs. Even with the technological advances not every soldier is cut out to be a Spartan, they just don’t use children anymore.

7

> As of now the base criteria for selecting Spartan-IVs are veterans and people who show great potential, with the occasional Marine like Madsen getting in because his father and grandfather are generals. I would have to say ODSTs are still necessary. It would be like saying we don’t need the Green Berets because we have Navy SEALs.

My opinion exactly. Plus, it would be sad to see ODSTs go.

8

> Strongly disagree.
>
> There’s no reason for us to have ODST’s. Spartan IV’s are, as you said, technologically, genetically superior. We can have ODST armor, or a special sub-section of Spartan IV’s similar to ODST, but there’s no reason for ODST’s to come back.
>
> Instead of saying “only the best ODST’s became Spartan IVs” couldn’t we simply say “every ODST became a Spartan IV”? It only makes sense to give your best class of soldiers better gear.

The issue with making every ODST a Spartan IV is money and resources. Without those their isn’t anything.

9

> Strongly disagree.
>
> There’s no reason for us to have ODST’s. Spartan IV’s are, as you said, technologically, genetically superior. We can have ODST armor, or a special sub-section of Spartan IV’s similar to ODST, but there’s no reason for ODST’s to come back.
>
> Instead of saying “only the best ODST’s became Spartan IVs” couldn’t we simply say “every ODST became a Spartan IV”? It only makes sense to give your best class of soldiers better gear.

The ODSTs operate in a different way to the Spartan IVs. The ODSTs often conduct operations from behind enemy lines by dropping from orbit, or dropping into the middle of a battle from orbit to seize and/or destroy key locations. Spartan IVs operate in a similar way to the previous Spartan generations. There are also only around several hundred Spartan IVs whereas there must be at least a couple of thousand ODSTs. It would be far too expensive to make all the ODSTs into Spartan IVs. May as well spend your resources on your top soldiers. If the Spartan IVs were only ODSTs there would also be a dilution of the skill set considering Spartan IVs come from every single branch as well as the Special forces of those branches resulting in a diversity of skill sets.

10

> I don’t get what you’re trying to say. Are you saying that the ODSTs are redundant now because of the Spartan IV program?
>
> The ODSTs are far from redundant as the Spartan IVs operate under a different style of warfare. They don’t drop behind enemy lines anymore, they conduct the same kind of warfare that the Spartans before them did (Which was mostly front line stuff, a lot of “spec ops” type unconventional warfare as well though).
>
> It makes sense to pick those who are the best of the best. Someone with better genes might not be as good of a soldier as the hardened vet as experience and training are more important than genetics.
>
> Spartans are also expensive and so there will be a lot more ODSTs than Spartans.
>
> Don’t forget either that Spartan IVs don’t just come from the ODSTs. They come from the Marine Corps, Army, SPECWARCOM, Air Force etc. Spartans are taken from every branch of the UNSC.

Spartan Ops made it very clear than Spartans IV’s are deployed in force and not just spec ops missions like II’s and III’s.

Lets not just look up but down, there were alot more marines on the Infinty than SPartans yet still no ODST’s filled the place of those marines even thought it would of been more likley that they would have. Alot of what the Infinity had issues with could of been easily solved with ODSTs.

Like when they were in orbit around requiem. ODSTs would of been a great idea to send into the planet right when a distress signal was given out. Even when the Infinity was going down Del Rio knew that recon would be key so launching ODST’s from orbit or when falling to the planet would of been a great idea as well. Even the scene when they said they didn’t have time to do a recon mission. ODST’s would of been perfect there too and when assault the defensive positions.

Even when The Mantle’s Approach reached Earth sending ODSTs in with MC would of been a great idea, punch a hole send in ODST’s at other points in the ship or drop them near Didact.

Spartan Ops also had these moments when they would of made the job far easier but the lack of ODSTs was a massive downfall. Spartan IV’s can’t be everywhere so having a large amount of ODST’s aboard the Infinity would of been better than the average marines.

11

> > I don’t get what you’re trying to say. Are you saying that the ODSTs are redundant now because of the Spartan IV program?
> >
> > The ODSTs are far from redundant as the Spartan IVs operate under a different style of warfare. They don’t drop behind enemy lines anymore, they conduct the same kind of warfare that the Spartans before them did (Which was mostly front line stuff, a lot of “spec ops” type unconventional warfare as well though).
> >
> > It makes sense to pick those who are the best of the best. Someone with better genes might not be as good of a soldier as the hardened vet as experience and training are more important than genetics.
> >
> > Spartans are also expensive and so there will be a lot more ODSTs than Spartans.
> >
> > Don’t forget either that Spartan IVs don’t just come from the ODSTs. They come from the Marine Corps, Army, SPECWARCOM, Air Force etc. Spartans are taken from every branch of the UNSC.
>
> Spartan Ops made it very clear than Spartans IV’s are deployed in force and not just spec ops missions like II’s and III’s.
>
> Lets not just look up but down, there were alot more marines on the Infinty than SPartans yet still no ODST’s filled the place of those marines even thought it would of been more likley that they would have. Alot of what the Infinity had issues with could of been easily solved with ODSTs.

That’s why I said “They conduct the same kind of warfare that the Spartans before them did (Which was mostly front line stuff)”. The Spartan IIs and IIIs were often deployed in force or onto the front lines rather than unconventional warfare (Although they did take part in unconventional spec-ops warfare as well). By 2552, Fred had already participated in over 120 campaigns. The Spartan IVs operate in the same way as the Spartan generations before them whereas ODSTs often conduct unconventional spec-ops warfare. Not saying that the previous generations of Spartans didn’t, just saying that they were also deployed in force and conducted front line warfare as well.

12

> > Strongly disagree.
> >
> > There’s no reason for us to have ODST’s. Spartan IV’s are, as you said, technologically, genetically superior. We can have ODST armor, or a special sub-section of Spartan IV’s similar to ODST, but there’s no reason for ODST’s to come back.
> >
> > Instead of saying “only the best ODST’s became Spartan IVs” couldn’t we simply say “every ODST became a Spartan IV”? It only makes sense to give your best class of soldiers better gear.
>
> The issue with making every ODST a Spartan IV is money and resources. Without those their isn’t anything.

So you’re saying all those orbital drop pods are cheap? Especially when ODSTs were much more common than SIVs and have gone on several orbital deployments? Wouldn’t all that titanium and steel add up? Especially since a drop pod take up like eight times the amount of metal used for GEN2 MJOLNIR?

13

> > > Strongly disagree.
> > >
> > > There’s no reason for us to have ODST’s. Spartan IV’s are, as you said, technologically, genetically superior. We can have ODST armor, or a special sub-section of Spartan IV’s similar to ODST, but there’s no reason for ODST’s to come back.
> > >
> > > Instead of saying “only the best ODST’s became Spartan IVs” couldn’t we simply say “every ODST became a Spartan IV”? It only makes sense to give your best class of soldiers better gear.
> >
> > The issue with making every ODST a Spartan IV is money and resources. Without those their isn’t anything.
>
> So you’re saying all those orbital drop pods are cheap? Especially when ODSTs were much more common than SIVs and have gone on several orbital deployments? Wouldn’t all that titanium and steel add up? Especially since a drop pod take up like eight times the amount of metal used for GEN2 MJOLNIR?

The metal used in drop pods may be cheaper. The manufacturing processes and materials used in creating Mjolnir are a lot more complex than those that go into drop pods.

A set of Gen I Mjolnir costed around the same as a Starship. Even though the Gen II is cheaper, I doubt that it’s drastically cheaper.

14

I can see why it’ll be sad to see them go, and it will be, but it isn’t like this is unintentional bad writing. It isn’t. If you pay attention to Halsey in the beginning of Halo 4’s campaign where she says spartans are Humanity’s next step genetically, and that’s true. It’s the geas the Librarian put in her to accelerate Humanity’s evolution so they can attain the Mantle of Responsibility. ODSTs according to the Librarian’s plan are very much so redundant if soon everyone will become a spartan, and better…

15

> I can see why it’ll be sad to see them go, and it will be, but it isn’t like this is unintentional bad writing. It isn’t. If you pay attention to Halsey in the beginning of Halo 4’s campaign where she says spartans are Humanity’s next step genetically, and that’s true. It’s the geas the Librarian put in her to accelerate Humanity’s evolution so they can attain the Mantle of Responsibility. <mark>ODSTs according to the Librarian’s plan are very much so redundant if soon everyone will become a spartan, and better…</mark>

Everybody isn’t ready to become a Spartan yet, that is the problem.

16

> > > Strongly disagree.
> > >
> > > There’s no reason for us to have ODST’s. Spartan IV’s are, as you said, technologically, genetically superior. We can have ODST armor, or a special sub-section of Spartan IV’s similar to ODST, but there’s no reason for ODST’s to come back.
> > >
> > > Instead of saying “only the best ODST’s became Spartan IVs” couldn’t we simply say “every ODST became a Spartan IV”? It only makes sense to give your best class of soldiers better gear.
> >
> > The issue with making every ODST a Spartan IV is money and resources. Without those their isn’t anything.
>
> So you’re saying all those orbital drop pods are cheap? Especially when ODSTs were much more common than SIVs and have gone on several orbital deployments? Wouldn’t all that titanium and steel add up? Especially since a drop pod take up like eight times the amount of metal used for GEN2 MJOLNIR?

If a drop pod took eight times the amount of material used in GEN2 MJOLNIR, that doesn’t make necessarily more expensive, even if it does accumulate.

Guaranteed there’s more to them than just metal but a simple cost comparison would be, I can buy a tonne of steel for $400-500, yet it costs me 1.5k+ for a mere laptop. This is a pretty raw compasiron between drop pods and MJOLNIR, but the point to be made that the sophistication and leap in technology in developing a Spartan is much more and would stand to reason that it costs much more.

17

> > I can see why it’ll be sad to see them go, and it will be, but it isn’t like this is unintentional bad writing. It isn’t. If you pay attention to Halsey in the beginning of Halo 4’s campaign where she says spartans are Humanity’s next step genetically, and that’s true. It’s the geas the Librarian put in her to accelerate Humanity’s evolution so they can attain the Mantle of Responsibility. <mark>ODSTs according to the Librarian’s plan are very much so redundant if soon everyone will become a spartan, and better…</mark>
>
> Everybody isn’t ready to become a Spartan yet, that is the problem.

True, but we haven’t been given any good insight on civilian life however either so you and I can’t tell how many non-military personnel desire enhancements. Which negates some of my point, but still, I bet they’re easing us off of Marines and ODST’s for the purpose I mentioned in the later games. Humanity will eventually evolve into Spartans.

18

> > > > Strongly disagree.
> > > >
> > > > There’s no reason for us to have ODST’s. Spartan IV’s are, as you said, technologically, genetically superior. We can have ODST armor, or a special sub-section of Spartan IV’s similar to ODST, but there’s no reason for ODST’s to come back.
> > > >
> > > > Instead of saying “only the best ODST’s became Spartan IVs” couldn’t we simply say “every ODST became a Spartan IV”? It only makes sense to give your best class of soldiers better gear.
> > >
> > > The issue with making every ODST a Spartan IV is money and resources. Without those their isn’t anything.
> >
> > So you’re saying all those orbital drop pods are cheap? Especially when ODSTs were much more common than SIVs and have gone on several orbital deployments? Wouldn’t all that titanium and steel add up? Especially since a drop pod take up like eight times the amount of metal used for GEN2 MJOLNIR?
>
> The metal used in drop pods may be cheaper. The manufacturing processes and materials used in creating Mjolnir are a lot more complex than those that go into drop pods.
>
> A set of Gen I Mjolnir costed around the same as a Starship. Even though the Gen II is cheaper, I doubt that it’s drastically cheaper.

Wait a minute… Since when is titanium in a smaller form cheaper than titanium used in a larger form when you’re buying metal? Drop pods are made of titanium alloy, lead foil, and ceramic skin (the skin needs to be replenished IF a drop pod is recovered because that stuff burns within seconds due to the atmosphere). Not only that, but these pods need to be able to withstand solar radiation and atmospheric impact at way over one hundred miles per hour. Not to mention it has to have a pressurized cabin, very powerful impact absorbers (ones that can take tons of force, literally), scanners to measure velocity, distance, pressure, and gravity, radar, comm screens, weapon cabinets, safety functions, emergency release, oxygen storage tanks, a titanium drag chute, strong radio, and I’m sure there’s more I haven’t even touched. But anyways, you’re trying to tell me that a drop pod is severely less complex than MJOLNIR? The only thing complicated about MJOLNIR is it’s energy shielding and reactors. Everything else (that’s logical) could be made by modern day scientists, even a HUD (though it probably would be produced the same way as it is in Halo).

Also, How big is said starship? And what Mark generation costs that much? From what I read, there isn’t really any specification, but for practicality’s sake I’m going to assume something a quarter of the size of the UNSC Savannah.

As for Gen 2 being drastically cheaper. Yeah, I think it is. If we’re now able to put energy shielding that’s superior to a Covenant ship on one of our own vessels, then I certainly think it’s easy to do the same thing with smaller variants. Especially since we can apparently manufacture 400-500 SIVs in four years.

> > > > Strongly disagree.
> > > >
> > > > There’s no reason for us to have ODST’s. Spartan IV’s are, as you said, technologically, genetically superior. We can have ODST armor, or a special sub-section of Spartan IV’s similar to ODST, but there’s no reason for ODST’s to come back.
> > > >
> > > > Instead of saying “only the best ODST’s became Spartan IVs” couldn’t we simply say “every ODST became a Spartan IV”? It only makes sense to give your best class of soldiers better gear.
> > >
> > > The issue with making every ODST a Spartan IV is money and resources. Without those their isn’t anything.
> >
> > So you’re saying all those orbital drop pods are cheap? Especially when ODSTs were much more common than SIVs and have gone on several orbital deployments? Wouldn’t all that titanium and steel add up? Especially since a drop pod take up like eight times the amount of metal used for GEN2 MJOLNIR?
>
> If a drop pod took eight times the amount of material used in GEN2 MJOLNIR, that doesn’t make necessarily more expensive, even if it does accumulate.
>
> Guaranteed there’s more to them than just metal but a simple cost comparison would be, I can buy a tonne of steel for $400-500, yet it costs me 1.5k+ for a mere laptop. This is a pretty raw compasiron between drop pods and MJOLNIR, but the point to be made that the sophistication and leap in technology in developing a Spartan is much more and would stand to reason that it costs much more.

The problems with your argument are that you…
1.Take my argument of substance vs substance and counter argue with substance vs product.
2. Argue with current economy and marketing when we’re talking about the economy and marketing of the future. 550 years in the future.
3. Say “substance” when I was talking about metal.

To elaborate…

  1. I compare the metal used in a single drop pod to the metal used in MJOLNIR. You compare metal to a laptop. That’s like comparing MJOLNIR to the pure lead and titanium; not an equal argument. And of course a single suit of MJOLNIR costs more than a single drop pod, MJOLNIR has energy shield tech and nuclear reactors. Take that away from it though, and you have the drop pod costing more. You can read why in my previous comment to Luke.

Now what I AM arguing is that the amount of drop pods used during the war costs more than the SIV program. And that makes sense according to the logic I am arguing with. With better versions comes cheaper costs. Especially when you’re producing stuff for the military. Think about it, there were more ODSTs than SIVs, those ODSTs probably have gone on more than five orbital drops on average, those drop pods get destroyed, damaged and need repair, etc., new pods need to be made, new gens are installed throughout the war, more materials are used, more repairs are made, etc. I’m pretty assured that the total cost of all the drop pods used during the war exceeds the costs for all GEN2 armors for the SIVs.

  1. Pretty self explanatory. :stuck_out_tongue:

  2. Pretty much the same elaboration for 2 with some back up from 1.

19

> > If a drop pod took eight times the amount of material used in GEN2 MJOLNIR, that doesn’t make necessarily more expensive, even if it does accumulate.
> >
> > Guaranteed there’s more to them than just metal but a simple cost comparison would be, I can buy a tonne of steel for $400-500, yet it costs me 1.5k+ for a mere laptop. This is a pretty raw compasiron between drop pods and MJOLNIR, but the point to be made that the sophistication and leap in technology in developing a Spartan is much more and would stand to reason that it costs much more.
>
> The problems with your argument are that you…
> 1.Take my argument of substance vs substance and counter argue with substance vs product.
> 2. Argue with current economy and marketing when we’re talking about the economy and marketing of the future. 550 years in the future.
> 3. Say “substance” when I was talking about metal.
>
> To elaborate…
> 1. I compare the metal used in a single drop pod to the metal used in MJOLNIR. You compare metal to a laptop. That’s like comparing MJOLNIR to the pure lead and titanium; not an equal argument. And of course a single suit of MJOLNIR costs more than a single drop pod, MJOLNIR has energy shield tech and nuclear reactors. Take that away from it though, and you have the drop pod costing more. You can read why in my previous comment to Luke.
>
> Now what I AM arguing is that the amount of drop pods used during the war costs more than the SIV program. And that makes sense according to the logic I am arguing with. With better versions comes cheaper costs. Especially when you’re producing stuff for the military. Think about it, there were more ODSTs than SIVs, those ODSTs probably have gone on more than five orbital drops on average, those drop pods get destroyed, damaged and need repair, etc., new pods need to be made, new gens are installed throughout the war, more materials are used, more repairs are made, etc. I’m pretty assured that the total cost of all the drop pods used during the war exceeds the costs for all GEN2 armors for the SIVs.

  1. The point to be made, which you obviously missed, was comparing bulk metal (the “accumulation of titanium and steel”) to MJOLNIR. The amount of metal used in MJOLNIR vs a drop pod is irrelevant. It is, just as you conceded, far more expensive. It doesn’t matter what makes the MJOLNIR so expensive, it just is. If a drop pod, as you theoretically proposed, takes 8 times the metal yet is still cheaper what kind of conclusion to metal’s relative worth can we draw from that?

Taking away its tech and reactors to make a case for a drop pod’s cost does nothing to your argument as you’re not comparing two complete products you’re comparing a product to that of a partial one.

The rest of your argument is pure assumption based on absolutely zero ground and can be refuted by simply saying so. Also, you can deploy an ODST without a SIV (the use of which are highly contextual anyway…), but you can’t deploy a Spartan without MJOLNIR. Besides, how many Spartans died (or were missing in action…), taking their MJOLNIR with them?

  1. My use of the current economy was just to make a raw point. I don’t know the economy 500+ years from now, but the principle of bulk material vs highly sophisticated manufacturing and technology still stands. For all you know interplanetary mining could have made metal more abundant and cheaper.

  2. What are you on about?

20

> > > If a drop pod took eight times the amount of material used in GEN2 MJOLNIR, that doesn’t make necessarily more expensive, even if it does accumulate.
> > >
> > > Guaranteed there’s more to them than just metal but a simple cost comparison would be, I can buy a tonne of steel for $400-500, yet it costs me 1.5k+ for a mere laptop. This is a pretty raw compasiron between drop pods and MJOLNIR, but the point to be made that the sophistication and leap in technology in developing a Spartan is much more and would stand to reason that it costs much more.
> >
> > The problems with your argument are that you…
> > 1.Take my argument of substance vs substance and counter argue with substance vs product.
> > 2. Argue with current economy and marketing when we’re talking about the economy and marketing of the future. 550 years in the future.
> > 3. Say “substance” when I was talking about metal.
> >
> > To elaborate…
> > 1. I compare the metal used in a single drop pod to the metal used in MJOLNIR. You compare metal to a laptop. That’s like comparing MJOLNIR to the pure lead and titanium; not an equal argument. And of course a single suit of MJOLNIR costs more than a single drop pod, MJOLNIR has energy shield tech and nuclear reactors. Take that away from it though, and you have the drop pod costing more. You can read why in my previous comment to Luke.
> >
> > Now what I AM arguing is that the amount of drop pods used during the war costs more than the SIV program. And that makes sense according to the logic I am arguing with. With better versions comes cheaper costs. Especially when you’re producing stuff for the military. Think about it, there were more ODSTs than SIVs, those ODSTs probably have gone on more than five orbital drops on average, those drop pods get destroyed, damaged and need repair, etc., new pods need to be made, new gens are installed throughout the war, more materials are used, more repairs are made, etc. I’m pretty assured that the total cost of all the drop pods used during the war exceeds the costs for all GEN2 armors for the SIVs.
>
> 1. The point to be made, which you obviously missed, was comparing bulk metal (the “accumulation of titanium and steel”) to MJOLNIR. The amount of metal used in MJOLNIR vs a drop pod is irrelevant. It is, just as you conceded, far more expensive. It doesn’t matter what makes the MJOLNIR so expensive, it just is. If a drop pod, as you theoretically proposed, takes 8 times the metal yet is still cheaper what kind of conclusion to metal’s relative worth can we draw from that?

Wait, you’re telling me my initial point comparing the metals is irrelevant because you’re changing the argument to a semi new topic? That’s not really arguing against my point and doesn’t make much sense. Saying something is expensive “just cuz” isn’t much elaboration. I simply stated what was the most expensive parts of MJOLNIR.

And if anyone’s missed a point, you have:

> If a drop pod, as you theoretically proposed, takes 8 times the metal yet is still cheaper what kind of conclusion to metal’s relative worth can we draw from that?

You completely rule out the product vs product argument, exactly like how you did with substance vs substance. We both know that more metal means more money and we both know why MJOLNIR costs more than a drop pod. But you have mixed the fact for the metal of a drop pod costing more with the fact that MJOLNIR as a product costing more. So to answer your question, we can’t draw anything because whatever logic you pulled together there doesn’t make sense and it’s certainly not my argument.

My original argument with Delko was that the amount of metal for drop pods used during the war was far more expensive than the metal used to make GEN2. I then expanded that argument from substance vs substance to product vs product by arguing that all the drop pods used during the war, in total, cost more than the money invested into GEN2.

> Taking away its tech and reactors to make a case for a drop pod’s cost does nothing to your argument as you’re not comparing two complete products you’re comparing a product to that of a partial one.

I quote myself.

> And of course a single suit of MJOLNIR costs more than a single drop pod, MJOLNIR has energy shield tech and nuclear reactors. Take that away from it though, and you have the drop pod costing more.

You’ll see that I’m not even using that as a main argument by saying “of course a single suit of MJOLNIR costs more…”, but rather as a side point to identify what makes MJOLNIR so expensive.

> The rest of your argument is pure assumption based on absolutely zero ground and can be refuted by simply saying so.

So what do you mean by this? That my argument justifying that drop pods used during the war, in total, cost more than the GEN2s used by SIVs is pure assumption? That the average ODST hasn’t gone on five drops minimum? Yet you think your argument against it actually stands without assumption. In truth, we’re both assuming here. I’m assuming with estimates and practicality, and you’re assuming I’m wrong. If you want to prove me wrong, by all means, go and find sources to counter argue me.

> Also, you can deploy an ODST without a SIV (the use of which are highly contextual anyway…), but you can’t deploy a Spartan without MJOLNIR. Besides, how many Spartans died (or were missing in action…), taking their MJOLNIR with them?

Well in the SIVs, not many. You are arguing against my point that drop pods used during the war cost more than the GEN2 MJOLNIR used with the SIVs. GEN1 doesn’t have much relevancy to this argument. However, yeah, they do die taking their armor with them, but I remind you that you can still salvage damaged pods and make new ones/fix it, but you can’t salvage body parts and make a new human. Plus how many spartans were there in GEN1 that wore MJOLNIR? Under 200 actually wore MJOLNIR and most of those spartans were killed and their armor obviously not replaced.

> 2. My use of the current economy was just to make a raw point. I don’t know the economy 500+ years from now, but the principle of bulk material vs highly sophisticated manufacturing and technology still stands. For all you know interplanetary mining could have made metal more abundant and cheaper.

Alrighty, then it’s obvious the metal needed to make a laptop takes less than the metal to make a ton of steel. I’m pretty sure it’s obvious that the metal needed to make MJOLNIR takes less than the metal needed to make a drop pod. After all that was my initial comparison, right? Substance vs substance/metal vs metal, not substance vs product/metal vs laptop.

> 3. What are you on about?

To correct myself, you said “material”, not substance. And what I was getting at was that using “material” in that way describes all the components of MJOLNIR, not just the metal, as I was arguing.