I think the BR should be weaker in H5G.

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

For the TL DR’s

I think precision weapons should do less damage because they are more
skillful. Having precision weapons do more damage hurts Halo because it makes adding other weapons in the game near useless.

(Why pickup any other weapon if the one you have is the strongest non power weapon offering the most damage and utility.)

End of TL DR section

Actually everry precision weapon should be weaker but I will focus more on hte BR. Mainly because its a medium range precision weapon aka viable in just about every field of combat. Skill from the BR shouldn’t come from someone just picking up the weapon with the fastest kill time but putting the least amount of bullets into a person in the right place for a precision kill.

I think the BR in H5G should do moderate damage, same for the Carbine. Both easily being outmatched by their automatic brothers but from the precision point of view.

I.E. A player with a BR shoots someone center mass vs a player with an AR shooting center mass. BR>AR

On hte other hand when the BR has the range over the assault rifle accuracy is lowed for the AR giving hte battle rifle user an edge. Of course 343i tried to do this with HAlo 4 but it was merely trading villains. We went from DMR or DIE to BR or DIE. Which is not a Halo style i wish to return to.

For the evolution of the game i think that each on of the human rifles should only be good in their niche and exclusively to that. Outside they should be crippled to a major degree.

Reward BR players for landing head shots while reward AR users for burst fire. In every Halo game putting a Precision weapon up to an Automatic is certain doom. A team of players with Carbines vs players with Storm Rifles and every player will vote for the carbines.

Skill should come from the player and the weapons area of affect note just their damage. Which is the exact reason why people clung to the DMR more than the Carbine when they were the same weapons pre 4. The difference was the DMR did more damage compared to the Carbine so people used it more.

I think its time to figure out who really are the talented Halo players from people taking advantage of a stronger weapon.

Skill should flat out over look damage. So Skill>Damage, when you put both of these into the same category and put them against the weapons they have less the both you have a terribly flawed system. Skill&Damage+ > -Skill&Damage

To get a better bearing on this just look at the power weapons. The ones that take more skill normally can’t instantly kill a person unless that skill gap is meet.

Sniper<Rocket Launcher

When you surpass the skill gap Sniper>Rocket Launcher

A good sniper could not only kill the Rocket user with a swift headshot but even shoot the very rocket out of the air.

Why have the power weapons follow the rule then have standard rifles break that very samething. The BR isn’t popular because its a skillful weapon its popular because it does the most damage. Clear evidence of favorably over most damaging weapons is in the past decade of Halo gaming.

Carbine didn’t get that much popularity because it didn’t have satisfying damage. DMR comes out and people praise it saying it was the weapons Halo fans have been asking years for when the very same weapon existed right in front of them. The only thing that stopped them from seeing it was how much damage it didn’t do.

DMR stayed on the top in Halo 4 the only reason it was dethroned was because people felted the BR was too weak. When it was IMO perfect and back to being broken. The DMR just needed its changed from being Death Metal Rifle to Designated Marksman Rifle

Now that 343i is bringing back the SMG in H5G this makes me feel like they are actually adding in a system like this. Otherwise what role would the SMG serve without dual wield that the AR can’t already do?

I feel as if the SMG will be the close up in the face automatic while the Ar will be the more skillful look into spray and pray. This gives me hope in 343i ability to change and evolve Halo for a better future.

Remember being skillful means you get the quicker kill, not that you do more damage.

Added Piece. Two things that are always left out in the arguments about which gun is better and why BR should stay on top because and it is the most “skillful” weapon is the grenades and melee. An AR can’t instantly kill a person after a simple squeeze of a trigger to the head after a melee or grenade blast.

The Golden triangle will always be in effect in Halo games. It is simply the core of the game. Now making that triangle pyramid is what i hope 343 will be able to do successfully.

Sorry for any errors, i’m still working on my “project” and I have to do it with less people now because some of us working on it have started senior year of High School. We will try to get it done before Winter because there s no place to store something this big. When it is finished we will reveal our hard work to the Halo community.

Also sorry if someone already made a post like this. If they have recently mods please let this sink. Not trying to steal someones thunder.

Back to the troops I go.

2

Agreed, the balance between precision and automatics has been off for a long time now and hopefully 343I continues in the right direction.

3

The balance is in skill

4

That’s a broken argument. You think the game will be more skillful by focusing the game more around guns that are VERY easy to use. The way to make the game more skillful is to increase movement speeds and lower aim assist. The BR from H2 was perfectly powered but slightly too easy to use but it worked because if you were would good with a BR you beat somebody that was average with a BR 8 out of 10 times. If those same players had a shoot out with the SMG each player would win 5 out of 10 times because automatic weapons in Halo take ZERO skill. Strong guns like the BR are needed to counter power weapons and be all purpose guns. If a player is skillful with a BR they can take out a sniper at medium to long range and a shotgun at short range. Saying precision weapons being strong are bad for Halo isn’t only wrong it’s the exact opposite of what made the first 3 Halos popular. People think weapon balance means all weapons that aren’t power weapons should be even but that’s untrue. There should always be one or two primary weapons that gameplay revolves around with other weapons filling niches and power weapons being power weapons. Halo CE is a great example. The Pistol was the primary gun but every single other weapon in the sandbox had a purpose except for the Needler.

5

> For the evolution of the game i think that each on of the human rifles should only be good in their niche and exclusively to that

I’d argue that’s already the case.

DMR’s are only useful in specific spots of our current 4v4 maps.
The AR kills fast enough in CQC to fight the Battle Rifle.

6

Response Part I

> Actually everry precision weapon should be weaker but I will focus more on hte BR. Mainly because its a medium range precision weapon aka viable in just about every field of combat. Skill from the BR shouldn’t come from someone just picking up the weapon with the fastest kill time but putting the least amount of bullets into a person in the right place for a precision kill.

No they don’t actually(except when it comes to vehicles, in that instance precision weapons definitely need a nerf). There is nothing wrong with a utility weapon, the problem with most past Halo games is that many niche weapons(particularly auto weapons) have not lived up to their expectations.

> On hte other hand when the BR has the range over the assault rifle accuracy is lowed for the AR giving hte battle rifle user an edge. Of course 343i tried to do this with HAlo 4 but it was merely trading villains. We went from DMR or DIE to BR or DIE. Which is not a Halo style i wish to return to.

People have been swapping out weapons throughout the whole series. You know what they have not been picking up? Auto weapons. Why? Because they have been consistently bad much the entire time from H2-Reach. Not to mention pretty much all auto weapons post CE have all filled the same, dull bullet hose niche.

The Precision weapons have been well balanced with the majority of the sandbox, its the auto weapons that have failed to not only measure up to the precision weapons, but the greater power weapon sandbox as well.

> For the evolution of the game i think that each on of the human rifles should only be good in their niche and exclusively to that. Outside they should be crippled to a major degree.

I don’t see why human weapons need any special limitations, all niche weapons need to follow that guideline. However a ‘jack of all trades, ace of none’ is a very necessary to allow re spawning players an oppurtunity to defend themselves from most threats.

> Reward BR players for landing head shots while reward AR users for burst fire. In every Halo game putting a Precision weapon up to an Automatic is certain doom. A team of players with Carbines vs players with Storm Rifles and every player will vote for the carbines.

Because all the auto weapons have been either A.)Completely underpowered(H2-Reach), or B.)A close range only bullet hoses that while good weapons at close range, they simply lack the ability to respond to any ranged threats.

Its funny you mention the storm rifle because the auto weapons in Halo 4 were good from the beginning and only got better post patch. They simply they just don’t have the versatility needed to be an effective ‘primary’ in most situations. Not to mention precision weapons like the Carbine have a much wider skill gap when it comes to team play.

> Skill should come from the player and the weapons area of affect note just their damage. Which is the exact reason why people clung to the DMR more than the Carbine when they were the same weapons pre 4. The difference was the DMR did more damage compared to the Carbine so people used it more.

The DMR and Carbine have never been close to the same weapon. Their single shot nature is a completely superficial judgement that has nothing to do with their capabilities. People ‘clung’ to the DMR in Reach because it was a spawning weapon and the Needle Rifle filled the exact same niche. In Halo 4 people ‘clung’ to the DMR because the auto weapons were niche weapons(thought they were still very good), and the BR/CC were flat underpowered. They also didn’t use the LR simply because they couldn’t handle it.

The whole “DMR was overpowered/broke map movement” myth is a complete joke. Halo 4’s failing had so little to do with the DMR its not even funny.

7

Part II

> Why have the power weapons follow the rule then have standard rifles break that very samething. The BR isn’t popular because its a skillful weapon its popular because it does the most damage. Clear evidence of favorably over most damaging weapons is in the past decade of Halo gaming.

Except standard rifles don’t break the rules, since they have always required more skill than the bullet hoses from a gunplay perspective and from a team perspective.

Your “evidence” only looks at correlation without looking the underlying cause: most auto weapons being crap/inherently limited niche weapons.

> Added Piece. Two things that are always left out in the arguments about which gun is better and why BR should stay on top because and it is the most “skillful” weapon is the grenades and melee. An AR can’t instantly kill a person after a simple squeeze of a trigger to the head after a melee or grenade blast.

No, an AR cannot instantly kill, but that is a VERY narrow perspective. The greater skillgap of precision weapons doesn’t just come from their reliance on accuracy, but the ability to respond to a number of situation using a number of different tricks and options.

Its not as if the AR doesn’t benefit form a well placed grenade or melee, the difference is that the AR doesn’t need to nail a precise shot, you can just fire center mass. Precision weapons are punished for missing to a far greater degree than the bullet hoses we have had so far.

TL;DR The precision weapons are not the problem, the auto sandbox has been filled with redundant bullet hose clones that have lacked the ability to do anything outside of close range.

This is the reason they were not used often and if you fix the auto sandbox by making them fill diverse and powerful niches everything falls into place. Making the BR the bogeyman does not help the sandbox at all.

8

Nerfing guns is boring.

A strong weapon sandbox with no redundant weapons, projectile lead and lowered aim assist would put more emphasis on skill.

If dedicated servers are as good as people make them out to be, removing hitscan should not be a problem.

9

I didn’t really follow what you were trying to say, but I think the precision rifles in H4 are fine. In H5 they should just be more difficult to use.

10

> Nerfing guns is boring.
>
> A strong weapon sandbox with no redundant weapons, projectile lead and lowered aim assist would put more emphasis on skill.
>
> If dedicated servers are as good as people make them out to be, removing hitscan should not be a problem.

Exactly.

Redundancy is a necessity brought on by the needs of the campaign. You need your baddies to have weapons that the Spartans can pick up and use. It makes more sense to pick up a carbine than have battle rifle ammo lying around a covenant cruiser.

A few redundancies will play out fine in a sandbox… so long as the individual weapons have definite unique uses.

Having 4 scoped rifles in h4, three snipers, who knows how many explosives, etc was only necessary because of the campaign.

It would be better to cut the number of weapons and differentiate the remaining.

11

> > Nerfing guns is boring.
> >
> > A strong weapon sandbox with no redundant weapons, projectile lead and lowered aim assist would put more emphasis on skill.
> >
> > If dedicated servers are as good as people make them out to be, removing hitscan should not be a problem.
>
> Exactly.
>
> Redundancy is a necessity brought on by the needs of the campaign. You need your baddies to have weapons that the Spartans can pick up and use. It makes more sense to pick up a carbine than have battle rifle ammo lying around a covenant cruiser.
>
> A few redundancies will play out fine in a sandbox… so long as the individual weapons have definite unique uses.
>
> Having 4 scoped rifles in h4, three snipers, who knows how many explosives, etc was only necessary because of the campaign.
>
> It would be better to cut the number of weapons and differentiate the remaining.

You point out that redundancy is a necessary evil brought on by the campaign, but then you suggest cutting weapons left and right. Are you suggesting that covenant and promethians should each only cover some of the niches? or that their weapons should each have their own niches, not covered by the UNSC, with the exception of some “required” necessities, like the carbine (utility)?

Cut too many and campaign could end up rather bland.

12

I’m not about to read all that, what with this headache and all, but if you’re suggesting they balance it so other non-precision weapons can actually serve a purpose (i.e. “Balanced”) then “Hear, hear!” I concur.

I love what they’ve done with the AR in Halo 4. If you know how to use that bloom to your advantage, that gun has a decent range. A nice little “pop pop pop” and you can end a fleeing enemy instead of reloading your BR or Carbine.

13

> You know what they have not been picking up? Auto weapons. Why? Because they have been consistently bad much the entire time from H2-Reach. Not to mention pretty much all auto weapons post CE have all filled the same, dull bullet hose niche.

Precision weapons require this thing called “precision”, auto weapons have always been spray and pray and works in anyones hands just as well.
A noob could easily get kills with an AR but give him a BR and the picture changes.

> The Precision weapons have been well balanced with the majority of the sandbox, its the auto weapons that have failed to not only measure up to the precision weapons, <mark>but the greater power weapon sandbox as well.</mark>

The hell are you expecting?
Precision weapons, again are only usefull in capable hands, you can’t expect a noob to pull of 3 no scopes in a row and when someone capable is handling a sniper a BR or DMR will not render you victorious, those weapons rely heavily on player skill.
CQC weapons just take less skill that is their biggest upside, you don’t have to be a pro to get kills with a shotgun just get close enough, the same with an AR.

> I don’t see why human weapons need any special limitations, all niche weapons need to follow that guideline. However a ‘jack of all trades, ace of none’ is a very necessary to allow re spawning players an oppurtunity to defend themselves from most threats.

Not famaliar with that saying but I take you want the AR to work in every ranged situation? Not even the BR does that, at far ranged it is pretty useless and you’re just wasting ammo. It is also incredibly unbalanced if you have a weapon that works for every situation possible and it is pretty unskillful if that weapon requires no need of precision whatsoever, just spray and pray.

> Because all the auto weapons have been either A.)Completely underpowered(H2-Reach), or B.)A close range only bullet hoses that while good weapons at close range, they simply lack the ability to respond to any ranged threats.

Again the point of the AR is close range combat (granted in 3 that was not execute correctly but in Reach), what you’re basically asking is for an automatic weapon for midrange, to which the answer is no, automatic weapons take nearly no skill to take kills, you don’t need to aim for the head just pull the trigger while aiming at the body.

> Its funny you mention the storm rifle because the auto weapons in Halo 4 were good from the beginning and only got better post patch. They simply they just don’t have the versatility needed to be an effective ‘primary’ in most situations. Not to mention <mark>precision weapons like the Carbine have a much wider skill gap when it comes to team play.</mark>

You could say why…

> People ‘clung’ to the DMR in Reach because it was a spawning weapon and the Needle Rifle filled the exact same niche. In Halo 4 people ‘clung’ to the DMR because the auto weapons were niche weapons(thought they were still very good), and the BR/CC were flat underpowered. They also didn’t use the LR simply because they couldn’t handle it.
>
> The whole “DMR was overpowered/broke map movement” myth is a complete joke. Halo 4’s failing had so little to do with the DMR its not even funny.

I think the LR was more underused given its ROF. But DMR was overall the best weapon given you needed to land less shots then the carbine, the kill times were just as high as its adversaries but it worked really well long range (something about that cross-hairs that makes aiming feel more comfortable)which made it better then the BR (wouldn’t say it broke the game, just that it was the most obvious choice).

The AR is definitely fine with it’s Halo 4 incarnation, map design just needs to be tweaked a bit to allow better situations for it.

14

> Precision weapons require this thing called “precision”, auto weapons have always been spray and pray and works in anyones hands just as well.
> A noob could easily get kills with an AR but give him a BR and the picture changes.

I don’t know if you are quoting the wrong sections or what, but I feel like you have missed the point of my post in several sections. As far as this particular quote goes I agree, I just don’t believe in creating second class ‘noob’ weapons.

> The hell are you expecting?
> Precision weapons, again are only usefull in capable hands, you can’t expect a noob to pull of 3 no scopes in a row and when someone capable is handling a sniper a BR or DMR will not render you victorious, those weapons rely heavily on player skill.
> CQC weapons just take less skill that is their biggest upside, you don’t have to be a pro to get kills with a shotgun just get close enough, the same with an AR.

I expect all weapons to be viable when used properly. Obviously power weapons have an advantage, but while the BR and friends have been able to fight back against power weapons with proper play(which IMO is a good thing), the auto weapons in Halo 2-Reach have failed to be viable within their own niche. That is not a good thing.

> Not famaliar with that saying but I take you want the AR to work in every ranged situation? Not even the BR does that, at far ranged it is pretty useless and you’re just wasting ammo. It is also incredibly unbalanced if you have a weapon that works for every situation possible and it is pretty unskillful if that weapon requires no need of precision whatsoever, just spray and pray.

I was referring to the fact that the BR(and similar weapons like the Carbine) already fulfill that role as utility weapons. They can be used in just about every situation(ignoring extremes), but they are not the best.

I was making a point that they play a very important role and nerfing them would be detrimental to respawning players.

> Again the point of the AR is close range combat (granted in 3 that was not execute correctly but in Reach), what you’re basically asking is for an automatic weapon for midrange, to which the answer is no, automatic weapons take nearly no skill to take kills, you don’t need to aim for the head just pull the trigger while aiming at the body.

The thing is we don’t need 3+ bullet hoses all doing the same thing. I’m not asking for the AR specifically to become a mid range weapon, I just want to see automatic weapon fill a wider variety of roles than Human bullet hose, Covy Bullet Hose, Forerunner bullet hose. If we end up with a balanced mid range capable automatic than so be it. You ever heard of the CE Plasma Rifle? Very accurate with controlled fire, decent shield damage, plasma stun, and a headshot multiplier? Meaning its an automatic that was not a mere bullet hose…

> You could say why…

A greater ability to support teammates through, teamshot, cleanups, support fire, and spotting from a wider variety of ranges than close range weapons. Obvious things.

> I think the LR was more underused given its ROF. But DMR was overall the best weapon given you needed to land less shots then the carbine, the kill times were just as high as its adversaries but it worked really well long range (something about that cross-hairs that makes aiming feel more comfortable)which made it better then the BR (wouldn’t say it broke the game, just that it was the most obvious choice).
>
> The AR is definitely fine with it’s Halo 4 incarnation, map design just needs to be tweaked a bit to allow better situations for it.

Yes the DMR was the obvious choice as I said. The auto weapons were good within their niche but they are not versatile and the BR/Carbine were clearly underpowered, the AR/SR/SP/DMR and LR(when used properly) all had noticeably faster killtimes than the underpowered pre-patch BR/CC.

As far as the AR goes I am fine with it in Halo 4 as well, I just want fewer redundant clones in the sandbox, automatic or otherwise.

I think we are actually on the same page with a lot of this which is why this post was confusing.

15

DON’T YOU TOUCH MY BR.

<3

Edit: They’ve tampered with my LESS-THAN-THREE sign!

16

We can avoid having 5 different types of the same gun if they would bring back plasma stunning effects. That effect makes the PR and PP weapons that have uses that differ from their human counterpart but can be effective in there roles. The kill times wouldn’t be as fast but they would drop shields faster and have the ability to stun someone with a power weapon at close range.

17

> I don’t know if you are quoting the wrong sections or what, but I feel like you have missed the point of my post in several sections. As far as this particular quote goes I agree, I just don’t believe in creating second class ‘noob’ weapons.

Well we do kinda need them, we can’t ask of newer players to instantly familiarize with the game.

> I was referring to the fact that the BR(and similar weapons like the Carbine) already fulfill that role as utility weapons. They can be used in just about every situation(ignoring extremes), but they are not the best.
>
> I was making a point that they play a very important role and nerfing them would be detrimental to respawning players.

Yeah but you agree that those weapons require a certain expertise to be handled and we already have an automatic power weapon that works over a ridiculous distance (SAW).
Using BR instead of AR is a transition players go through, say we use skill to determine a player (1 new player, 50 experienced) then from 1 to 20 the AR would work, Lvl20 players being more experienced and using cover, movement and pacing their shots to their advantage (or at least they should) but at that point the AR reaches maximum use.
Starting from 20 the BR tends to be a better weapon choice, it requires more precision (as with just body shots/no headshots it has a longer kill time then the AR and the clip has less kills in it) which players then have developed.
I feel the AR and BR are just fine in their current incarnation (safe for 343is ridiculous aim assist)

> The thing is we don’t need 3+ bullet hoses all doing the same thing. I’m not asking for the AR specifically to become a mid range weapon, I just want to see automatic weapon fill a wider variety of roles than Human bullet hose, Covy Bullet Hose, Forerunner bullet hose. If we end up with a balanced mid range capable automatic than so be it. You ever heard of the CE Plasma Rifle? Very accurate with controlled fire, decent shield damage, plasma stun, and a headshot multiplier? Meaning its an automatic that was not a mere bullet hose…

That I can agree with aldo currently the auto weapons just fill different ranges but given map flow it makes the Suppressor for instance absolute as you need a ridiculous close range for it work and it makes the difference kinda boring.

> A greater ability to support teammates through, teamshot, cleanups, support fire, and spotting from a wider variety of ranges than close range weapons. Obvious things.

I thought you mean the carbine specifically.
But again, these require a good amount of aiming to pull off.

> Yes the DMR was the obvious choice as I said. The auto weapons were good within their niche but they are not versatile and the BR/Carbine were clearly underpowered, the AR/SR/SP/DMR and LR(when used properly) all had noticeably faster killtimes than the underpowered pre-patch BR/CC.
>
> As far as the AR goes I am fine with it in Halo 4 as well, I just want fewer redundant clones in the sandbox, automatic or otherwise.
>
> I think we are actually on the same page with a lot of this which is why this post was confusing.

Yeah I think I may have misunderstood you (I really need to stop checking the forum when I can’t sleep).
However I do not think we should tone down the BR or tune up the AR, the AR definitely fits the role of close range well but as you said, some more added difference between all the auto weapons is welcome.

18

I wouldn’t consider one weapon truly exclusive to its intended range, but we’re getting closer. I have high hopes for Guardians.

The weapons update in H4 improved things. Now, the autos are decent at close range, the DMR best at long range. But the BR still creeps a bit too much in each direction. Slowly but surely, and fingers crossed…

19

> > > Nerfing guns is boring.
> > >
> > > A strong weapon sandbox with no redundant weapons, projectile lead and lowered aim assist would put more emphasis on skill.
> > >
> > > If dedicated servers are as good as people make them out to be, removing hitscan should not be a problem.
> >
> > Exactly.
> >
> > Redundancy is a necessity brought on by the needs of the campaign. You need your baddies to have weapons that the Spartans can pick up and use. It makes more sense to pick up a carbine than have battle rifle ammo lying around a covenant cruiser.
> >
> > A few redundancies will play out fine in a sandbox… so long as the individual weapons have definite unique uses.
> >
> > Having 4 scoped rifles in h4, three snipers, who knows how many explosives, etc was only necessary because of the campaign.
> >
> > It would be better to cut the number of weapons and differentiate the remaining.
>
> You point out that redundancy is a necessary evil brought on by the campaign, but then you suggest cutting weapons left and right. Are you suggesting that covenant and promethians should each only cover some of the niches? or that their weapons should each have their own niches, not covered by the UNSC, with the exception of some “required” necessities, like the carbine (utility)?
>
> Cut too many and campaign could end up rather bland.

yes. Smarter weapon choices in general to allow for needed redundancy only.
CE wasn’t bland for lack of weapon choices. The suppressor didn’t add anything the AR didn’t already bring. Bolt shot chargeup and scatter shot were too similar.

I’d rather have had the Promethean weapons morph and provide ammo for any other reloadable weapon than be their own weapon set.

20

> For the TL DR’s
>
>
> I think precision weapons should do less damage because they are more
> skillful. Having precision weapons do more damage hurts Halo because it makes adding other weapons in the game near useless.
>
> (Why pickup any other weapon if the one you have is the strongest non power weapon offering the most damage and utility.)
>
> End of TL DR section
>
>
> Actually everry precision weapon should be weaker but I will focus more on hte BR. Mainly because its a medium range precision weapon aka viable in just about every field of combat. Skill from the BR shouldn’t come from someone just picking up the weapon with the fastest kill time but putting the least amount of bullets into a person in the right place for a precision kill.
>
>
> I think the BR in H5G should do moderate damage, same for the Carbine. Both easily being outmatched by their automatic brothers but from the precision point of view.
>
> I.E. A player with a BR shoots someone center mass vs a player with an AR shooting center mass. BR>AR
>
>
> On hte other hand when the BR has the range over the assault rifle accuracy is lowed for the AR giving hte battle rifle user an edge. Of course 343i tried to do this with HAlo 4 but it was merely trading villains. We went from DMR or DIE to BR or DIE. Which is not a Halo style i wish to return to.
>
> For the evolution of the game i think that each on of the human rifles should only be good in their niche and exclusively to that. Outside they should be crippled to a major degree.
>
> Reward BR players for landing head shots while reward AR users for burst fire. In every Halo game putting a Precision weapon up to an Automatic is certain doom. A team of players with Carbines vs players with Storm Rifles and every player will vote for the carbines.
>
> Skill should come from the player and the weapons area of affect note just their damage. Which is the exact reason why people clung to the DMR more than the Carbine when they were the same weapons pre 4. The difference was the DMR did more damage compared to the Carbine so people used it more.
>
> I think its time to figure out who really are the talented Halo players from people taking advantage of a stronger weapon.
>
> Skill should flat out over look damage. So Skill>Damage, when you put both of these into the same category and put them against the weapons they have less the both you have a terribly flawed system. Skill&Damage+ > -Skill&Damage
>
> To get a better bearing on this just look at the power weapons. The ones that take more skill normally can’t instantly kill a person unless that skill gap is meet.
>
> Sniper<Rocket Launcher
>
> When you surpass the skill gap Sniper>Rocket Launcher
>
> A good sniper could not only kill the Rocket user with a swift headshot but even shoot the very rocket out of the air.
>
> Why have the power weapons follow the rule then have standard rifles break that very samething. The BR isn’t popular because its a skillful weapon its popular because it does the most damage. Clear evidence of favorably over most damaging weapons is in the past decade of Halo gaming.
>
> Carbine didn’t get that much popularity because it didn’t have satisfying damage. DMR comes out and people praise it saying it was the weapons Halo fans have been asking years for when the very same weapon existed right in front of them. The only thing that stopped them from seeing it was how much damage it didn’t do.
>
> DMR stayed on the top in Halo 4 the only reason it was dethroned was because people felted the BR was too weak. When it was IMO perfect and back to being broken. The DMR just needed its changed from being Death Metal Rifle to Designated Marksman Rifle
>
> Now that 343i is bringing back the SMG in H5G this makes me feel like they are actually adding in a system like this. Otherwise what role would the SMG serve without dual wield that the AR can’t already do?
>
> I feel as if the SMG will be the close up in the face automatic while the Ar will be the more skillful look into spray and pray. This gives me hope in 343i ability to change and evolve Halo for a better future.
>
> Remember being skillful means you get the quicker kill, not that you do more damage.
>
>
> Added Piece. Two things that are always left out in the arguments about which gun is better and why BR should stay on top because and it is the most “skillful” weapon is the grenades and melee. An AR can’t instantly kill a person after a simple squeeze of a trigger to the head after a melee or grenade blast.
>
> The Golden triangle will always be in effect in Halo games. It is simply the core of the game. Now making that triangle pyramid is what i hope 343 will be able to do successfully.
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> Sorry for any errors, i’m still working on my “project” and I have to do it with less people now because some of us working on it have started senior year of High School. We will try to get it done before Winter because there s no place to store something this big. When it is finished we will reveal our hard work to the Halo community.
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> Also sorry if someone already made a post like this. If they have recently mods please let this sink. Not trying to steal someones thunder.
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> Back to the troops I go.