Of the higher ups. I think many people at the company would be smart enough to say hey I don’t think this will work but never do because they do not challenge the senior that game up with the idea.
The latest and greatest example… Fiesta.
I know people on the forums are upset about it. I am sure the gametype got playtested. I think everyone who playtested it was to afraid to speak up and say… “Uh, why are we using ordinance when we can just set the default weapons to random?”
I also have to think that people at 343 don’t really understand how people play their game. If you give people a cheap strategy like an incineration cannon and a jetpack… Everyone is going to use it. Do they only ever use the Jetpack for mobility and not for being douchey?
I think the problem with their playtesting is the play it how they think it should play, not how it will be played. Which is the hardest part of game testing. I think they should set up custom games once a week to test out new playlists with random people to see how others will play their game.
343i probably employs fair, and simple “play the game like you’re supposed to play it” game testers, which is why so many of these things that’re used cheaply only turn up after they’re released
it seems too many game companies do this, and then they have over 9000 things to re-balance after they release the game
> 343i probably employs fair, and simple “play the game like you’re supposed to play it” game testers, which is why so many of these things that’re used cheaply only turn up after they’re released
>
> it seems too many game companies do this, and then they have over 9000 things to re-balance after they release the game
>
> open game betas can help also…
I do not know how 343 tests their new content, but I know how some companies test their content.
Nintendo has a notorious QA program. I had friends that worked there during summers while going to school. You sit on one level and try everything possible hundreds of times. If they are satisfied with the testing and think that level is done. You get to do the exact same thing on the next level. Now this falls into a bug category more than the playability category but I think 343 really needs to work on wrapping their mind around…
“How do I play this game so that I win and everyone hates me for it”
> > 343i probably employs fair, and simple “play the game like you’re supposed to play it” game testers, which is why so many of these things that’re used cheaply only turn up after they’re released
> >
> > it seems too many game companies do this, and then they have over 9000 things to re-balance after they release the game
> >
> > open game betas can help also…
>
> I do not know how 343 tests their new content, but I know how some companies test their content.
>
> Nintendo has a notorious QA program. I had friends that worked there during summers while going to school. You sit on one level and try everything possible hundreds of times. If they are satisfied with the testing and think that level is done. You get to do the exact same thing on the next level. Now this falls into a bug category more than the playability category but I think 343 really needs to work on wrapping their mind around…
>
> “How do I play this game so that I win and everyone hates me for it”
>
> If you find a way. Get rid of it
> Of the higher ups. I think many people at the company would be smart enough to say hey I don’t think this will work but never do because they do not challenge the senior that game up with the idea.
>
> <mark>The latest and greatest example… Fiesta.</mark>
> <mark>I know people on the forums are upset about it. I am sure the gametype got playtested. I think everyone who playtested it was to afraid to speak up and say… “Uh, why are we using ordinance when we can just set the default weapons to random?”</mark>
>
> I also have to think that people at 343 don’t really understand how people play their game. If you give people a cheap strategy like an incineration cannon and a jetpack… Everyone is going to use it. Do they only ever use the Jetpack for mobility and not for being douchey?
>
> I think the problem with their playtesting is the play it how they think it should play, not how it will be played. Which is the hardest part of game testing. I think they should set up custom games once a week to test out new playlists with random people to see how others will play their game.
Have you ever played fiesta before in any other halo because all of them rolled PW’s in fiesta not starters. If I want to use a starter I will go play a normal playlist.
> > Of the higher ups. I think many people at the company would be smart enough to say hey I don’t think this will work but never do because they do not challenge the senior that game up with the idea.
> >
> > <mark>The latest and greatest example… Fiesta.</mark>
> > <mark>I know people on the forums are upset about it. I am sure the gametype got playtested. I think everyone who playtested it was to afraid to speak up and say… “Uh, why are we using ordinance when we can just set the default weapons to random?”</mark>
> >
> > I also have to think that people at 343 don’t really understand how people play their game. If you give people a cheap strategy like an incineration cannon and a jetpack… Everyone is going to use it. Do they only ever use the Jetpack for mobility and not for being douchey?
> >
> > I think the problem with their playtesting is the play it how they think it should play, not how it will be played. Which is the hardest part of game testing. I think they should set up custom games once a week to test out new playlists with random people to see how others will play their game.
>
> Have you ever played fiesta before in any other halo because all of them rolled PW’s in fiesta not starters. If I want to use a starter I will go play a normal playlist.
I have played fiesta in Halo 2 and 3, I am saying that this fiesta is not fiesta at all. You would get stuck with a random weapon in Fiesta, there was no concept of starter since most of the time that was either a BR or AR. You could get every weapon and sometimes only got one while others got two.
343: Well, let’s take the quite obviously broken stuff from the past and with new features make it work! It’s not quite the same but we feel it does the job much better. (Fiesta has always been about Power Weapons. Now the gametype settings better support the type of gameplay that has always resulted from randomly spawning rocket launchers into a mix of lesser guns.)
Community: Um…when we said we wanted a better Halo game what we really meant was the same Halo game!
343: But I don’t think it’s possible to do nothing but still make the game better.
Community: What are you, the possible police? Just do it!
> Community: We want a better Halo game!
>
> 343: Well, let’s take the quite obviously broken stuff from the past and with new features make it work! It’s not quite the same but we feel it does the job much better.
> (Fiesta has always been about Power Weapons. Now the gametype settings better support the type of gameplay that has always resulted from randomly spawning rocket launchers into a mix of lesser guns.)
>
> Community: Um…when we said we wanted a better Halo game what we really meant was the same Halo game!
>
> 343: But I don’t think it’s possible to do nothing but still make the game better.
>
> Community: What are you, the possible police? Just do it!
And yet the new Fiesta still screws over player by giving them crappy ordinance still. Yeah, that Speed Boost, Gravity Hammer and Energy Sword will do wonders against the three people armed with Incinerator Cannons and one guy with a Rocket Launcher. And if you get something good, you have to wait for it to drop and that gives the enemy ample time to kill you and steal whatever you got.
Dominion is irrefutable proof that imbalance was intentionally designed into Halo 4. You don’t need to look else where for an explanation of what went wrong. Until the intent is to bring Halo back to what it was - a balanced and strategic game - there is no hope looming over the horizon.
As for the theme music, it is not clear if that was intentional or simply a lack of understanding the basics of game publishing. But it is destructive to the legend that is Halo.
> random personal and global OD aren’t imbalanced. They apply to both teams equally, same as the bloom did in reach.
A person on Red Team gets a Sniper Rifle in their PO, a person on Blue Team gets a Needler. Both are on a long range map. Explain how that is balanced if one person gets significantly better Ordinance. Heck, the Blue guy may have gotten his Ordinance through kills while the Red guy may have gotten his from numerous Assists, yet only one gets the really useful Ordinance for a large map
You can’t balance randomness.
> Loadouts are prefered on a map-to-map basis and can be used by anyone. Hell it’s not even so bad you have to chose something from the meta.
Explain the balance in having a one shot kill weapon in the Loadouts and a weapon that can stop vehicles. I fear for the people who start at lower levels and match up with people who have weapons for days while they start out with an AR. Also, Exile’s preference for Blue Team comes to mind as an unbalanced map.
> Community: We want a better Halo game!
>
> 343: Well, let’s take the quite obviously broken stuff from the past and with new features make it work! It’s not quite the same but we feel it does the job much better.
> (Fiesta has always been about Power Weapons. Now the gametype settings better support the type of gameplay that has always resulted from randomly spawning rocket launchers into a mix of lesser guns.)
>
> Community: Um…when we said we wanted a better Halo game what we really meant was the same Halo game!
>
> 343: But I don’t think it’s possible to do nothing but still make the game better.
>
> Community: What are you, the possible police? Just do it!
That was a very poor analysis.
First, I would love to see how Fiesta in previous games was broken, so please elaborate.
Second, Fiesta was never about power weapons as much as it was about the randomness of it. You were supposed to be put out of your comfort zone, given weapons that might not work for the situation, and how best you can work your way to finding better weapons. Starting the game with Custom Loadouts defeats the entire purpose of Fiesta being random and unpredictable. Also, requesting a RL then waiting for it to appear is just more time for the enemy to kill you with their RL.
Third, “Better” is subjective. Many Halo players view the Infinity settings as poor and terrible, the older settings are better to them. However, the older settings still won’t be perfect to them. They view the old settings as better, and will only positively support them until they return. Once those settings return, they will point out the errors and how to improve on them.
> > random personal and global OD aren’t imbalanced. They apply to both teams equally, same as the bloom did in reach.
>
> A person on Red Team gets a Sniper Rifle in their PO, a person on Blue Team gets a Needler. Both are on a long range map. Explain how that is balanced if one person gets significantly better Ordinance. Heck, the Blue guy may have gotten his Ordinance through kills while the Red guy may have gotten his from numerous Assists, yet only one gets the really useful Ordinance for a large map
For a single engage, but on the whole, since it’s 50/50, it evens out and can’t be considered imballanced. Add this to the excess of ordanance drops and every game, while it is a fiesta of sorts, offers each side the same opportunities.
> Loadouts are prefered on a map-to-map basis and can be used by anyone. Hell it’s not even so bad you have to chose something from the meta.
> Explain the balance in having a one shot kill weapon in the Loadouts and a weapon that can stop vehicles. I fear for the people who start at lower levels and match up with people who have weapons for days while they start out with an AR. Also, Exile’s preference for Blue Team comes to mind as an unbalanced map.
CAuse either team can pick the one shot kill weapon, or the emp pistol. No one is on the lower levels anymore, and even if they are those so called imba weapons aren’t really that imba.
> For a single engage, but on the whole, since it’s 50/50, it evens out and can’t be considered imballanced. Add this to the excess of ordanance drops and every game, while it is a fiesta of sorts, offers each side the same opportunities.
OD are not 50/50 experiences, each one has a random assortment of weapons. When two people on the enemy team have Binary Rifles, but you keep rolling Concussion Rifles on Ragnarok, there is a problem. Fiesta is also imbalanced since you could get a combo of powerups while someone else can get an Incinerator Cannon or Rockets, though that is technically by design originally in past games. Add in the fact the Ordinance has to actually drop and you leave yourself open instead of spawning and the random weapon is in your hand.
> CAuse either team can pick the one shot kill weapon, or the emp pistol. No one is on the lower levels anymore, and even if they are those so called imba weapons aren’t really that imba.
Explain why they are balanced instead of just saying, “Because”. Plasma Pistol spawns discourage the use of vehicles where in past games you could actually had a chance to use vehicles and Boltshot, though nerfed a bit, still encourages camping. Add that in with armor abilities and you have a mess.
Your arguments seem to be solely based on both players have equal odds. Halo has not been about rolling dice, it was never meant to be a game of chance.
Having your odds of survival based upon luck does not make for a fun game, unless you happen to be a really lucky SOB. The only real way to make something fair and balanced is to have it based on the skill of a player. When you add in randomness and too many factors, skill becomes increasingly negligible.
I think it’s kind of hilarious that people are complaining about OD’s as unbalanced because they’re too random, and yet in the same post they’re complaining that this Fiesta is unbalanced because it’s NOT completely random anymore.
Honestly though I’ve been having a lot of fun in this Ordnance Bonanza gametype, I don’t think they should call it Fiesta since it plays very differently, but I’d be happy if they included Classic Fiesta alongside it.