I suggest that you read this 343.

I didn’t come up with this but I agree with everything he has to say. Bear with me. If you really care about this series, and the future of the Halo experience as we know it, you’ll read everything this guy has to say. I’m not putting a TL;DR for you forum goers. Stop being lazy and actually read something for once. It might do you some good.

> So it seems that many of you are worried about the gameplay changes in Halo 4. That is fine, I’m worried myself. However I am far more worried about the progression and unlock system that that game will have. We should all know by now that Halo 4 is going to use the same kind of ranking system that every game is using nowadays. This is going to hurt the game. Despite how good gameplay can possibly be the progression system alone can ruin what made Halo 2 and Halo 3 so special. Even if reach’s gameplay was 100% like Halo 3’s the ranking system would still make it feel very different and had negative impacts on the game.
>
> So what did Reach’s ranking system do? Well their leveling system was based solely on gaining credits/exp just like any other FPS game nowadays. The only motive to play the game was to unlock your armor which was a grind. The ranking system was designed to take up to a year to get to the max rank at 60K credits/day. The game just became about grinding credits to rank up and then grinding more credits to buy the armor your want. That is all people wanted to do so they could have a bad–Yoink- looking spartan, but what many of them also did was grind the fun out of the game. After they got their armor it didn’t really seem as great as they thought so they just stopped playing and went on to a different game.
>
> So what did Halo 3’s ranking system do? It was based on skill. If you couldn’t get to a 45 (like me) you couldn’t get to a Brigadier. Simple as that. Yet, no one had a problem with this. It matched people with your skill whether you were a veteran or just started so it was fun and you didn’t have to worry about having to constantly play multiplayer to unlock crap. The system also gave you an actual sense of accomplishment rather than a false sense. If you finally hit that 45 and leveled up it mattered more. You actually felt like you accomplished something, you knew you got better and that you earned it. You played ranked to get better and to be competitive. You weren’t grinding to get your level just so you can get armor Where as any other game such as CoD, Battlefield, Reach, etc. that is all it is about and you never have that feeling a feeling of accomplishing something. It wasn’t a perfect system but it was perfect for Halo.
>
> So what effects did these 2 very different ranking systems have on Halo. Two words. Custom games! They thrived in Halo 3 because again it wasn’t about having to constantly unlock crap if you couldn’t get a higher skill level you couldn’t level up nor did you have to worry about unlocking something that was ranked based so you played custom games. They died in Halo Reach. It killed custom games. How? The same reason no one plays private matches in CoD. They same reason private matches aren’t even in Battlefield. It isn’t rewarding. This system spoils players so if they aren’t doing something to get exp/credits to get their unlocks then it isn’t worth doing. If I would try to get a custom zombie game going players would respond with, “No have to get 30k more credits today.” or something along those lines. I had 5,000 custom games alone in Halo 3, I had maybe a couple hundred in Reach. Imagine if Halo 3 required you to level up to get armor. It would of kill it like reach did because players would try to grind for it. Then once they got it or give up they would of went to play CoD 4 because it was much easier to unlock things and far less frustrating. 343i doesn’t realize that other than gameplay Halo 3’s ranking system is also what made custom games so popular which contributed to it’s 2 year reign as the most played game on XBL.
>
> Today the FPS genre is plagued with the same progression system. Developers do this because they think it will give players a reason to keep playing their game for months or years to come if they keep having -blam!- to unlock through matchmaking. It has been popularized which is why Bungie used it with Reach and why 343i is using it. They are trying to appeal to the masses to get people to play their game. Deep down they and Microsoft want Halo to be the most played game on XBL again and they think this is the way to do it. They are wrong! The FPS genre are becoming games about the more you can unlock rather the more you can do. This is a tired and overused formula. There is a reason Halo 3 was the top played game on XBL, beating out CoD 4 and WaW put together for 2 years. Why? Because it was different and wasn’t all about worrying about unlocking -blam!-. When it comes to longevity, the more you can do > The more you can unlock.

I propose a new ranking system in place of Halo 4’s current one. My proposal combines the elements of Halo 2’s, Halo 3’s, and Reach’s ranking system. Here it goes. Please read carefully and don’t be a jerk. If you don’t like something that is a part of my idea, let me know.

My idea for the new Halo 4 ranking system:

  • Separate Matchmaking into two categories; Ranked & Social again like Halo 3. Bring back the 1-50 system. Tweak it. Make it more efficient so that it’s impossible for players to manipulate the system. Make them have to earn it like many tried to do in Halo 2/3 and succeeded in by doing so legit. Make the rank progression system like that of Halo 3’s. Recruit being the lowest rank. 5 Star General the highest. This way, people actually have something to show for so long as the systems tweaked so that players can’t boost it.

  • Bring back the EXP system. By doing this, you encourage players to actually work as a team and not quit to get that 1 experience point to rank up. Bring back double EXP weekends too. This encourages more people to play the game on a weekly basis. It increases teamwork and team effort unlike Reach’s sloppy system where it only encouraged you to grind credits for your spartan model. This kind of system makes players selfish and only increases selfish behavior in matchmaking. For example, anyone who has gotten team killed for a power weapon for a daily challenge will know what I mean. After you hit Inheritor and bought everything (like me), there wasn’t much else to do Multiplayer wise other than move on.

  • Make the credit system for cosmetic nature only. In other words, bring back the credit system and tweak it like you should tweak the 1-50 system, and make credits for buying armor permutations. Having both the credit system and Halo 3’s ranking system back tweaked so that it is nearly impossible to manipulate Halo 4 will guarantee it’s success. By bringing back the Halo 3 progression system, double EXP weekends, and Reach’s credit system for cosmetic purposes only, it will encourage people to actually work as a team once again if they want to rank up.

This topic will probably get buried. All of the people too lazy to take the time to read any of this will probably just make a stupid post, then move on. But for those of you who actually read this all, thank you. Thoughts?

I really like this idea, and I think it will work well.

Hmm…Interesting. I had an idea similar to this. But I think they are pretty set on whatever they have going on with ranking.

At least you try, and not act like a total jerk about it maybe not being the way you want it.

I never played for armor, I just like to win.

Exactly what I was thinking basically. Everyone can basically get what they want.

Ranked playlists will have their “Skill Numbers”, people rank up by getting Exp. for winning, and then you’re awarded credits based on performance in the game and/or completing the game.

> The only motive to play the game was to unlock your armor which was a grind.

I hate it when people say stuff like this. If you’re playing the game just to get a rank/number/armour set then you’re playing the game for the wrong reason. Your motive to win should BE winning, or at least to just have fun playing the actual game.

> > The only motive to play the game was to unlock your armor which was a grind.
>
> I hate it when people say stuff like this. If you’re playing the game just to get a rank/number/armour set then you’re playing the game for the wrong reason. Your motive to win should BE winning, or at least to just have fun playing the actual game.

Social BTB FTW!!!

Co-Sign… Halo does not belong to Microsoft,bungie, or 343i … it belongs to the fans. Its our Game , we pay for the game , we read the books , we Ingulf ourselves in this story… There Is a reason I and many others have 25k + campaign* kills on halo3… and most just barley beat reach once…

*Other Account iRoTfLcOpTeR has 25k campaign kills… and I was a prominent contributor to the bungie forums at one time helping people get achievements and speedruns…

Thats a great idea. I completely agree that custom games were a HUUUGE part of Halo 3.

PS. I read the whole thing. It was a good read.

While I don’t think the progression system was the sole cause of the custom game’s demise (there are many other factors, like the actual gameplay itself), I agree with the OP’s source.

In Reach, how many people actually take pride in their rank? How often do you say “I need this many credits”? A lot. How often do you say “Yay, I finally got to General Grade 1!!! I’m amazing!”? Never.

When I levelled up to Eclipse, my favorite-looking rank, it was late at night. I had been playing for a few hours beforehand, reloading the web-page after each game to check how may credits I needed. But when I finally ranked up, I pulled the game out of my tray and played SSX. I didn’t care. It did nothing for me. I wasn’t “pleased” in any way about my rank.

I played Halo 3 a week or two ago. Let me start by saying I greatly enjoy the individual-playlist ranks that Bungie introduced. You have your overall rank, determined by Numerical Rank and Exp., but you also have a rank in each playlist, determined solely by Exp. I was playing with two buddies, and we weren’t doing too well considering we had just played Reach for several hours. We loaded up a playlist and started playing. Soon, we switched it up, and I noticed that I needed 8 more Exp. to rank up. This became our goal. This is something we didn’t have to check online. This isn’t something we could do by simply standing in a corner. We had to play, and we had to win. It was amazing. We were playing at an average skill level, against people who were only slightly better than us.

But when we finally got that 8th win, we were ecstatic. My two friends shouldn’t have cared, considering it wasn’t their rank, but they did. We cheered for a few minutes, then sat back down and continued playing. If you don’t know that feeling - when everyone in the room is happy about the same thing - you need to experience it. It was truly a fun time, and I couldn’t care less about Halo 3 ranks right now.

Here is another post on the Bungie forums supporting my idea for change. This guy knows what’s up. As a matter of fact, this post shall soon become a list of quotes from people supporting this idea, or a different ranking system and as to why in general.

I agree with you completely, i mean rank doesn’t mean much to me. I just play to have fun and win…

I didn’t care about ranks in Halo 3, I don’t care about them in Halo Reach. All I wanted to achieve in H3 was to get the Security Helmet. I was kinda proud I got it before any of the DLCs came out (which made it much easier to obtain).
After I got my favorite piece of armor, I just played the game because H3, unlike Reach, was a very fun game to play.
Lots of you forget that even H3 had boosters.
Everyone should play for their own reason. Some play for maximum completion, some play for achievements, some play for rank, some play for winning, some play entirely for fun.

Osiris918 here (this is my GT) Thanks for re-posting this here. I was gonna do it but never got around to it. Anyways. I disagree with credits = armor. That makes the game a credit grind and unlocking armor would just be uninteresting.

Unlocks should be through every aspect of the game such as:

-Campaign / co-op campaign
-Spartan Ops
-Skulls (including MP map skulls)
-Achievements
-Hidden easter eggs
-Challenges
-Secret Challenges. Such as, “Play 343 games.” That would be hidden people don’t grind it.
-Challenges.
-Community Events. Such as Halo 3’s Sarkathlon’s
-Secrets and Puzzles. Remember back in Halo 3 there was a myth of Sandtrap having a secret door that led somewhere. Imagine of that was real but instead each map had secret puzzles to unlock a room to get an item. For obvious reasons you would only be able to do this in forge or customs.

These methods would be much more interesting and fun than buying armor. This would also bring the community together to figure out how to unlock many many cosmetic pieces. In the long fun it would increase the longevity o the game.

> Co-Sign… Halo does not belong to Microsoft,bungie, or 343i … it belongs to the fans. Its our Game , we pay for the game , we read the books , we Ingulf ourselves in this story… There Is a reason I and many others have 25k + campaign* kills on halo3… and most just barley beat reach once…
>
> *Other Account iRoTfLcOpTeR has 25k campaign kills… and I was a prominent contributor to the bungie forums at one time helping people get achievements and speedruns…

CHAN9E, once again, you are wrong. While we are “emotionally” vested in this franchise by the hours we’ve played, and yes even the money we’ve paid out to own the games and other merchandise, it simply is not ours.

I’d love to say I have a say in how Halo is made. So would about a million others. You’re either going to have to be uber rich and by the license or work hard at becoming a top notch game developer with experience. Then and only then MIGHT you have a chance to be part of the decision making of Halo.

Again, I see your point. It just isn’t the case. As I mentioned in the other thread, I’ve got a lot vested in this franchise as well. Beyond the physical stuff mentioned, I have a blog (www.halofanforlife.com) that is devoted to all things Halo. I’ve spent real money, time, effort, etc. into building that blog. It’s connected with Twitter and Facebook as well.

Does that mean I own Halo? No. (Much to my dismay, LOL) It just means I’m an uber nerd fan. Or in my case, as my screen name says, a Halo fan for life.

It’s funny, I’ve had this same kind of discussion about other popular things. Star Wars is the biggest one brought to mind. No matter what the fans say (of which I’m a HUGE fan), we didn’t own Star Wars. That was all George Lucas’s baby.

Be happy that you do have a passionate stance about something. That is missing in many people nowadays. If you directed this passion towards completing a real life goal, you never know what you can achieve.

I’ll use Star Wars again as my reference. As a fan growing up, I loved everything about SW. To the point that after I did my 5 years in the Navy, I went to art school to learn about Industrial Design, Model Making, Set Design and Monster Makeup. Star Wars was absolutely my direct link to why I chose to study what I did in college. I gained insight the likes of which I didn’t know was out there before hand. Those folks who worked on the original trilogy were masters at their respective fields to be able to pull off some of the stuff they did. I went on to get a second degree in Graphic Design to help pay the bills while I sought work in my desired field of Industrial Design. I’ve now been in the design business for more than 15 years. I’ve had a successful career at a major University for 10 years (until last year when I was unfortunately laid off due to budget cuts). The point is, in all of this I still do not own Star Wars. However, I do have George Lucas to thank in a way for inspiring me to follow through with my ideas. Halo has inspired me as well. Sounds like it’s doing the same to you.

So as I said before, instead of trying to ruffle 343’s feathers, do your absolute best to become what it is 343 is looking for in development. Maybe then you’ll have a shot at living all of the rest of we fans Halo dreams. (Count me in as one of those who dreams of working for 343 as well.)

Respectfully,
HFFL

Too many words O_o

> Everyone should play for their own reason. Some play for maximum completion, some play for achievements, some play for rank, some play for winning, some play entirely for fun.

Yes. I totally agree. Btu that’s why I’m saying that this system I have in mind should be implemented. This way everyone can play for their own reasons and an incentive besides their own is already there!

http://halo.xbox.com/Forums/yaf_postst85044_How-about-seasonal-1-50.aspx

The above link references another thread that proposes a season based ranking system. First let me start by saying I completely agree with everything presented by both OPs. If there is no ranking system this game will get stale very fast what 343i needs to realize is that the progression system used by COD cannot not be emulated by any other game developer and automatically expect the same success. That isn’t to say i don’t enjoy an unlock system because I do. But Halo isn’t COD and if you are going to include a progression system then implement it in a way that allows it to integrate in an effective ranking system. Furthermore COD’s success should not in any way be attributed to its progression system. COD is popular for a number of reasons but mainly because it is extremely easy. A dominant player in COD can easily be taken out by a complete scrub on a regular basis due to the games infrastructure. This rarely happens in Halo usually the scrub will get turned on and destroyed. In my opinion Halo takes a lot more skill and as such should have a well balanced system in place for helping people build their skill against those at their level. I’m sure this is falling on deaf ears though since 343i already announced there will be join in progress which I believe means there cannot be any type of meaningful rank system. If this is the case then we are going to have to let 343i learn the hard way that much of Halo’s success in the past has been directly correlated to its ranking system and when you strip that from the experience somewhere a puppy dies :frowning:

> > The only motive to play the game was to unlock your armor which was a grind.
>
> I hate it when people say stuff like this. If you’re playing the game just to get a rank/number/armour set then you’re playing the game for the wrong reason. Your motive to win should BE winning, or at least to just have fun playing the actual game.

> > > The only motive to play the game was to unlock your armor which was a grind.
> >
> > I hate it when people say stuff like this. If you’re playing the game just to get a rank/number/armour set then you’re playing the game for the wrong reason. Your motive to win should BE winning, or at least to just have fun playing the actual game.

I agree to an extent. I think that the game should be first of all fun, and the gameplay itself pulls you back to the game. And then the unlockables and the credit system should be layered on top of that so that it is like a reward to play the game, not just them focusing on credits and ranking.