I like Zero Bloom, but it currently has a fatal flaw...

Like I said, Zero Bloom is a great concept: Who doesn’t love having shots hit on-target each and every time regardless of rate of fire?

But ZB as currently implemented is broken. I could complain about the Needle Rifle’s magnetic headshots, or the ridiculously overpowered Pistol, or the fact that any dedicated anti-vehicle weapon is now outclassed by concentrated fire from only two or three DMRs, but these are just symptoms of a broader problem: ZB as currently implemented transforms default loadout guns (DMR, Needle Rifle, Pistol) from basic utility weapons into borderline-unbeatable power weapons.

In the ZB DMR games I’ve played in the TU Beta hopper, I’ve noticed that, with very few exceptions, most players no longer rush for traditional power weapons (RL, sword, shotgun, etc.), with the possible exception of the Sniper Rifle. And why would they? There’s simply no need anymore – in the vast majority of combat scenarios within a ZB game, a DMR, Needle Rifle, or Pistol is now a superior wielding choice compared to any other available weapon.

I personally think this is Not A Good Thing, and if left uncorrected this problem will strip most of the remaining depth and nuance from Halo: Reach’s multiplayer experience. Last I checked, in Halo: Reach there are almost 20 other guns outside of the DMR, Needle Rifle, and Pistol that players can use. In the default, pre-TU version of the game, almost every single one of these weapons (the Plasma Rifle aside!) could be used to devastating effect in the right hands. For instance, if you wanted to only use the Plasma Repeater and the Concussion Rifle in a game against good players, you could do that and, if you were skillful enough, still win. If you tore off a mounted gatling gun, you could adequately use it to defend the confined close-quarters area of a base and successfully repel enemy attacks. In most scenarios, these more exotic weapons already offered lower probabilities of success and survival than simply using default hitscan weapons and frag grenades, but they could still reward a player who had mastered them. With ZB, this sort of varied gameplay no longer seems to be possible; the bloomless DMR, Needle Rifle, and Pistol have superseded essentially all other handheld weapons.

I challenge 343i and anyone who disagrees with my argument to explain why the current state of affairs is desirable. Why go to the trouble of creating a wider diversity of weapons, or bother carefully placing them in strategic locations around maps when they are all made defunct by default loadout weapons? How is gameplay going to improve when the winning conditions are essentially constrained to using only three default guns and the other 18-20 guns are rendered almost useless?

Nerf the Pistol’s rate of fire; fix the Needle Rifle’s bullet magnetism; beef up vehicles (but not the Banshee, which really needs more cooldown on its aerial acrobatics) so they can withstand more sustained DMR fire; and for heaven’s sake, apply ZB to non-hitscan weapons as well – why do guns like the Plasma Repeater and Plasma Pistol still have such drastic inaccurate spreads when a player can now deliver an entire clip from a Pistol, DMR, or Needle Rifle to a pinpoint spot across a map as quickly as he or she can pull the trigger? This game is now broken. Fix it.

Am I the only one who thinks this? Because most of what I see from others is blind unquestioning praise of ZB, and I’m starting to think I’m taking crazy pills.

This is why it won’t be put in the rest of Reach. It’s fun and a great challenge, but it will stay where it is.

My point isn’t so much that ZB should be abolished from Reach; it’s that ZB could work and be great as the default in all of the gametypes, but for it to do so 343i would have to really carefully tweak all the other weapons, as well as the resilience of vehicles and probably the movement speed of players. I’m just very worried that all the praise for ZB as it currently exists in the TU Beta will preclude any of that extra necessary effort on 343i’s part from happening.

I don’t think they have the intention of changing anything outside of bloom and bleedthrough. I agree with you a bit, the shotgun is definitely useless in TU playlist. The sniper and rockets are still good though- but I think, the point of zero bloom and the anniversary playlist is to bring back that -One utility weapon, sniper, rockets, shotgun- kinda games back. The people who like zero bloom the way it is now, generally think all the other weapons are pointless anyway and I’m fairly certain that the ZB was for those people who have been asking for this for a year now.

Zero bloom will only be in CEA and MLG. Maybe the arena but rumours are circulating that the Arena will be MLG soon. So this is not ruining anything. Stop making stupid threads.

Um, no.

If you make a stupid decision, you get punished now.
Also you now need to be less reckless when holding a power weapon, less you get wrecked by a DMR or magnum. This is what HALO is!

That is a GOOD thing.

In normal Reach you can just sprint all over the place, run away from bad positions and get away because the DMR was pathetic.

> My point isn’t so much that ZB should be abolished from Reach; it’s that ZB could work and be great as the default in all of the gametypes, but for it to do so 343i would have to really carefully tweak all the other weapons, as well as the resilience of vehicles and probably the movement speed of players. I’m just very worried that all the praise for ZB as it currently exists in the TU Beta will preclude any of that extra necessary effort on 343i’s part from happening.

This is 343 we are talking about here, not derpBungie.

MLG and classic settings are perfect for ZB.

I’ve been commenting about since they announced ZB gametypes, DMR’s with bloom already beat vehicles so ZB was designed for 4v4 vehicleless gametypes.

The DMR is meant to be OP and every other weapon is meant to fill a tiny niche. That’s what the people wanted the TU want. (If you want weapon balance stick to default reach)

> I’ve been commenting about since they announced ZB gametypes, DMR’s with bloom already beat vehicles so ZB was designed for 4v4 vehicleless gametypes.
>
> The DMR is meant to be OP and every other weapon is meant to fill a tiny niche. That’s what the people wanted the TU want. (If you want weapon balance stick to default reach)

Please

Default Reach has the following viable weapons:
DMR
GL
RL
SR
Shotty
Sword

All others are obselete.

With ZB, the magnum and NR are also viable.

> > I’ve been commenting about since they announced ZB gametypes, DMR’s with bloom already beat vehicles so ZB was designed for 4v4 vehicleless gametypes.
> >
> > The DMR is meant to be OP and every other weapon is meant to fill a tiny niche. That’s what the people wanted the TU want. (If you want weapon balance stick to default reach)
>
> Please
>
> Default Reach has the following viable weapons:
> DMR
> GL
> RL
> SR
> Shotty
> Sword
>
> All others are obselete.
>
> With ZB, the magnum and NR are also viable.

You may think so that’s why you want the TU.

But I’ve used every single weapon and there all useful, AR starts the Pistol beats the AR at range so I would say that alone makes the pistol useful.

> > > I’ve been commenting about since they announced ZB gametypes, DMR’s with bloom already beat vehicles so ZB was designed for 4v4 vehicleless gametypes.
> > >
> > > The DMR is meant to be OP and every other weapon is meant to fill a tiny niche. That’s what the people wanted the TU want. (If you want weapon balance stick to default reach)
> >
> > Please
> >
> > Default Reach has the following viable weapons:
> > DMR
> > GL
> > RL
> > SR
> > Shotty
> > Sword
> >
> > All others are obselete.
> >
> > With ZB, the magnum and NR are also viable.
>
> You may think so that’s why you want the TU.
>
> But I’ve used every single weapon and there all useful, AR starts the Pistol beats the AR at range so I would say that alone makes the pistol useful.

I’m sure you are amazing at halo, so i won’t argue.

You’re entitled to an opinion after all.

You missed a talking point on one of the biggest flaw with the gametype. It still has the same movement scheme. We need faster movement, higher jump height and NO MOVEMENT ACCELERATION.

> > > > I’ve been commenting about since they announced ZB gametypes, DMR’s with bloom already beat vehicles so ZB was designed for 4v4 vehicleless gametypes.
> > > >
> > > > The DMR is meant to be OP and every other weapon is meant to fill a tiny niche. That’s what the people wanted the TU want. (If you want weapon balance stick to default reach)
> > >
> > > Please
> > >
> > > Default Reach has the following viable weapons:
> > > DMR
> > > GL
> > > RL
> > > SR
> > > Shotty
> > > Sword
> > >
> > > All others are obselete.
> > >
> > > With ZB, the magnum and NR are also viable.
> >
> > You may think so that’s why you want the TU.
> >
> > But I’ve used every single weapon and there all useful, AR starts the Pistol beats the AR at range so I would say that alone makes the pistol useful.
>
> I’m sure you are amazing at halo, so i won’t argue.
>
> You’re entitled to an opinion after all.

icwutudidthar

I agree a lot with what you’re saying. I certainly go after PWs a lot less in ZB gametypes than normally, but PWs are still extremely effective. A team using PWs in combination with the ZB weapons would still do better than if they were to completely forget about the PWs altogether. PWs just play a smaller role… bring back powerups and I could see rockets playing a bit more of an important role than currently. I don’t think ZB is broken, but I do think tweaks could be made to make it better. A larger RoF on the pistol wouldn’t be unwelcomed, nor would ZB on automatics.

Yes it makes them less powerful in comparison but ultimately, they still make or break games. You just have to use them more effectively.