I just don't get it...

There are a people who want this halo to be exactly like H3 and H2, they say that all these new features are breaking halo, in my opinion I quite like sprint, and custom loadouts, but would prefer everyone to have magnum secondary and no perks, but I am only one person.

What I don’t get is why do people what Halo to go back to H3 and H2 style, I know 343 made mistakes, heck bungie even made mistakes, with halo reach they hardly listened to the community with our concerns on armour lock and the randomness of bloom and yet people only hate 343i. All they are trying to do is make halo their own.

They will learn from their mistakes and make Halo 5 a great game to play, without making it exactly like H3 and H2, because people here complain about COD yet they want halo to do the same thing and just be the same game over and over just with better graphics and a new campaign and that is just boring. However there should be a classic playlist on Halo 5 on day one for people who prefer H2 and H3 style or people who want a more nostalgic feel from time to time.

I understand your feelings but there is no need for a thread like this. I say this because it will just function as flame-bait, now don’t get me wrong I do not feel you wrote this for such reason, I am just saying.

People who harken back to the holy Halo trinity of CE, 2 and 3 have a strict Halo by numbers outlook on how every Halo shan’t deviate from the divine path. In my opinion CE, 2, 3, ODST, Reach and 4 have been great games and the only problems with the last two entries was too much DMR/BR and the infamous armor lock.

> I understand your feelings but there is no need for a thread like this. I say this because it will just function as flame-bait, now don’t get me wrong I do not feel you wrote this for such reason, I am just saying.

Yeh I see what your saying, thanks for the heads up :slight_smile:

> People who harken back to the holy Halo trinity of CE, 2 and 3 have a strict Halo by numbers outlook on how every Halo shan’t deviate from the divine path. In my opinion CE, 2, 3, ODST, Reach and 4 have been great games and the only problems with the last two entries was too much DMR/BR and the infamous armor lock.

That’s what I’m saying, I just don’t get why people want it to be the same thing again and again.

> > I understand your feelings but there is no need for a thread like this. I say this because it will just function as flame-bait, now don’t get me wrong I do not feel you wrote this for such reason, I am just saying.
>
> Yeh I see what your saying, thanks for the heads up :slight_smile:

No problem, I am always happy to help.

I just don’t get why we have to explain that we want Halo to evolve from Halo 3 and keep its core mechanics/gameplay at the same time.

Firefight, Cinema, Forge world, Custom server browsers… things like that are awesome things added to Halo, I think everyone can agree with me at this point.

But how is weapons randommly landing on the map, locking through walls all the time or random features like bloom something good/innovating? What does it add to the game? Most of this features just completly brake the game. Looking at the plasma/sticky combo which breaks vehicle combat completly. Or promethian vision which makes flanking or ambush impossible. How is the sniper Tower on the pit a power position anymore when everybody just can fly above it and shot from over there. Why should team red randommly get a rocket spawning on their side of the map and win the game 50 to 48 because they managed to kill to people with it easily. Why should other people be able to have more ammo or be able to reload faster than me just because I didnt choose that perk? Why should I be able tohave to use the jetpack on Abandon just to be able to get everywhere way faster than others. What good thing does camo add? And why should I get even better weapons just because I made some kills and assists? Why should my grandma and her cat be able to pull 4 shots with the BR just becuase it is so easy? Why should I try to win the game since I dont rank up in any way but my K/D is shown to others? Why not just camp with sniper and camo in CTF and raise my K/D since Im sr130 for months?

We want to evolve from Halo 3 and not Halo 3.5. But there are enough posts here that explained this way better than I did over and over again.

> <mark>I just don’t get why we have to explain that we want Halo to evolve from Halo 3 and keep its core mechanics/gameplay at the same time.</mark>
>
> Firefight, Cinema, Forge world, Custom server browsers… things like that are awesome things added to Halo, I think everyone can agree with me at this point.
>
>
> We want to evolve from Halo 3 and not Halo 3.5. But there are enough posts here that explained this way better than I did over and over again.

I think it’s because of the way some people explain it.

I don’t think there’s any new gameplay mechanics that are needed in Halo at this point. We’ve got assassinations, vehicle hijacking… We can do away with perks and ordinance (Though I’d be okay with both in a Firefight/Campaign only situation)… Loadouts? Simplified or Static in matchmaking, open for use elsewhere (Customs, SpOps if it returns, Firefight…) I’m assuming this is what you mean by building off the core - Keep the gameplay mechanics themselves intact, but improving on existing ones?

Though that does bring to question… What qualifies as improving when it comes to gameplay itself?

Halo 4 is still a good game but it is very limited. Not everybody can enjoy it. Halo 4 does not have the building blocks to be anything Halo fans could want it to be. This is in large part because of a lack of custom game options but also because of the very mechanics of the game.

Below is my explanation of why Legendary settings didn’t become an instant hit with everyone who asked for classic gameplay:

> Legendary is a lot closer to classic than Infinity but it is still not 100% there. Legendary settings still suffer from almost all of Halo 4’s biggest woes: quick weapon despawns, very poor strafe acceleration, high bullet mag, high aim assist, few weapons on maps, flinch instead of de-scope, sprint, waypoints on weapon drops, lack of camo as a power-up, 2-hit melee, lack of bleed-through on most weapons, etc. Did I miss anything? So yeah, it’s similar to Vector’s dirty lemonade…

While ppl come off as wanting a Halo 2 or 3 clone, most of them actually want the above things fixed and then have a bunch a new stuff thrown in that fits Halo’s mould as an arena shooter.

I like threads like this. LOL.
You really think we want Halo 2 or 3 again? There are so many well written threads on how Halo MP’s core gameplay is based in Arena style shooters, not modern trend shooters.

Then you have the argument of Halo shouldn’t be the same every entry. It shouldn’t and it never has. Mechanically Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 3 are different. All based on arena style shooters. Evolve from Halo’s arena foundation. Add more dynamic maps, different type of ON MAP POWERUPS(AAs, even supped up perks can be pickups), better forge, more custom options.

Halo 4 is a game that BORROWS from the almighty Call of Duty. There are a few problems with that. Most importantly, in the case of Halo 4, a lot of Halo’s foundation was thrown out in order to usher in new mechanics. Descope for flinch, default nade pick up for perks, custom loadouts that potentially destroy vehicular combat, among others.

You don’t want Halo to be like its predecessors but its ok for it to copy competition? THE SAME COMPETITION THAT IS A TOTAL REHASH YEAR AFTER YEAR.

Now tell me…why should sprint return? Surely by the logic of “things getting old” or “same thing over and over” sprint falls under that category. Its in every shooter now. What about loadouts…perks? Arent those old too? Name a AAA shooter within the last 7 years that doesn’t have them in MP. Last one was Halo 3…

Let me say its not about old or new really. Its about right and wrong. Sprint is wrong for a game with +1 second kill times. Why? Because it can potentially draw out engagements since a player can, and will, escape if given the chance. This in turn frustrates players and can actually slow the pace down.

There should be core mechanics in every Halo imo. For MP I believe Arena to be that core. Build from there.

I have a couple questions for those against the Arena Shooter path.

What path should Halo go down?

If Halo shouldn’t be the same every year then why should ANYTHING from Halo 4 return?

Should every Halo be “Halo’s version” of a particular shooter style? For example Halo 5 being a pure class based shooter like Team Fortress 2. Halo 6 being a 3rd person shooter like Gears of War. Since Halo should be different every entry…right?

> I like threads like this. LOL.
> You really think we want Halo 2 or 3 again? There are so many well written threads on how Halo MP’s core gameplay is based in Arena style shooters, not modern trend shooters.
>
> Then you have the argument of Halo shouldn’t be the same every entry. It shouldn’t and it never has. Mechanically Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 3 are different. All based on arena style shooters. Evolve from Halo’s arena foundation. Add more dynamic maps, different type of ON MAP POWERUPS(AAs, even supped up perks can be pickups), better forge, more custom options.
>
> Halo 4 is a game that BORROWS from the almighty Call of Duty. There are a few problems with that. Most importantly, in the case of Halo 4, a lot of Halo’s foundation was thrown out in order to usher in new mechanics. Descope for flinch, default nade pick up for perks, custom loadouts that potentially destroy vehicular combat, among others.
>
> You don’t want Halo to be like its predecessors but its ok for it to copy competition? THE SAME COMPETITION THAT IS A TOTAL REHASH YEAR AFTER YEAR.
>
> Now tell me…why should sprint return? Surely by the logic of “things getting old” or “same thing over and over” sprint falls under that category. Its in every shooter now. What about loadouts…perks? Arent those old too? Name a AAA shooter within the last 7 years that doesn’t have them in MP. Last one was Halo 3…
>
> Let me say its not about old or new really. Its about right and wrong. Sprint is wrong for a game with +1 second kill times. Why? Because it can potentially draw out engagements since a player can, and will, escape if given the chance. This in turn frustrates players and can actually slow the pace down.
>
> There should be core mechanics in every Halo imo. For MP I believe Arena to be that core. Build from there.
>
> I have a couple questions for those against the Arena Shooter path.
>
> What path should Halo go down?
>
> <mark>If Halo shouldn’t be the same every year then why should ANYTHING from Halo 4 return?</mark>
> <mark>Should every Halo be “Halo’s version” of a particular shooter style? For example Halo 5 being a pure class based shooter like Team Fortress 2. Halo 6 being a 3rd person shooter like Gears of War. Since Halo should be different every entry…right?</mark>

I like your logic here. It’s completely fallacious and makes little to no sense, which is why I like it.

Your underlying point however is quite valid and I agree, but I think you completely lost it in the highlighted section there. Being accused of just wanting a re-packaged Halo 3 is just as ridiculous.
I’m not being rudely critical, I was right with you until that last paragraph when my eyes began rolling uncontrollably, although that may have been a stroke from reading so many of these posts.

> What I don’t get is why do people what Halo to go back to H3 and H2 style, I know 343 made mistakes, heck bungie even made mistakes, with halo reach they hardly listened to the community with our concerns on armour lock and the randomness of bloom and yet people only hate 343i. All they are trying to do is make halo their own.

They can do that without breaking the game.

Halo: Reach was a spin-off. It was never meant to be the future of Halo. 343i’s mistake was building off of Halo’s last game instead of the last core game, which was Halo 3.

> I like your logic here. It’s completely fallacious and makes little to no sense, which is why I like it.
>
> Your underlying point however is quite valid and I agree, but I think you completely lost it in the highlighted section there.

How so? It’s change for the sake of change, right?

Honestly, I think that the biggest problem with Halo 4 was that it neither stayed true to Halo gameplay enough nor changed enough–it was at an awkward stage between arena shooter and class-based shooter, and as a result, appealed to fans of neither genre. I think it would’ve been better off it it had embraced full-on classes (“Specializations”) like in Team Fortress 2, just as he said.

> Though that does bring to question… What qualifies as improving when it comes to gameplay itself?

I don’t know if gameplay needs to improve, but it does need to be different. Lets say that under perfect conditions Halo 3 gets a 90% rating for gameplay quality, if Halo 5 gets even an 85% but it offers a lot of new innovative things then it should be a hit.

If Halo 5 is solid at its core and it offers enough options so we can all play it our way, then it will be a huge success. I guess what I’m trying to say is that if 343 perfectly recreates Halo’s foundation they can add almost anything on top of it and it will still be a great game. If the additions aren’t liked then as long as we can strip it down to the core and play Halo it will be a huge success. Then 343 would take that very same foundation and build off of it to create Halo 6, 7, 8 etc.

> > What I don’t get is why do people what Halo to go back to H3 and H2 style, I know 343 made mistakes, heck bungie even made mistakes, with halo reach they hardly listened to the community with our concerns on armour lock and the randomness of bloom and yet people only hate 343i. All they are trying to do is make halo their own.
>
> They can do that without breaking the game.
>
> Halo: Reach was a spin-off. It was never meant to be the future of Halo. 343i’s mistake was building off of Halo’s last game instead of the last core game, which was Halo 3.
>
>
>
> > I like your logic here. It’s completely fallacious and makes little to no sense, which is why I like it.
> >
> > Your underlying point however is quite valid and I agree, but I think you completely lost it in the highlighted section there.
>
> How so? It’s change for the sake of change, right?
>
> Honestly, I think that the biggest problem with Halo 4 was that it neither stayed true to Halo gameplay enough nor changed enough–it was at an awkward stage between arena shooter and class-based shooter, and as a result, appealed to fans of neither genre. I think it would’ve been better off it it had embraced full-on classes (“Specializations”) like in Team Fortress 2, just as he said.

“The Fallacy of Ridiculous Extremes” … I just made that one up.
Here’s an example:
A: “I don’t like Ben Affleck’s Batman costume because the ears are too small.”
B: “Well I guess his ears should be nine feet tall then, right? Because apparently that is what you want!”
A: “What?”

Or:

A: “I like sprint, it’s fun”
B: “Well then I guess the next Halo should just be Sonic the Flippin Hedgehog if you like sprinting so much!”
A: “Pardon?”

But again, I agreed with a lot of his points. I was just saying that he lost me at the end.

i had a thread like this around the time halo came out, bungie improved the game with each version, so why cant 343 have the same chance?

in my opinion the sprint option is abit of a pain with the small maps or in buildings but if it was more like battlefield style large maps it would make more sense making it easy to get around.

i dont care about the ranking system, i play for abit of fun, not to be competitive.

but the one thing i dont want to see is the same multiplayer over and over again like cod, having halo 3 multiplayer with a new skin would be rubbish!
id happily see a ‘stuck in the past’ game mode where its all disabled and have a rank, let them have there corner to reminisce in, theyll still find ways to complain while everyone can jump into what ever game mode they like and have FUN (god forbid)

maybe a few tweaks will be needed after release but from the past theyve done pretty well

> > People who harken back to the holy Halo trinity of CE, 2 and 3 have a strict Halo by numbers outlook on how every Halo shan’t deviate from the divine path. In my opinion CE, 2, 3, ODST, Reach and 4 have been great games and the only problems with the last two entries was too much DMR/BR and the infamous armor lock.
>
> That’s what I’m saying, I just don’t get why people want it to be the same thing again and again.

And those same people hate on Call of Duty for being the “same” every year.

> I like your logic here. It’s completely fallacious and makes little to no sense, which is why I like it.
>
> Your underlying point however is quite valid and I agree, but I think you completely lost it in the highlighted section there. Being accused of just wanting a re-packaged Halo 3 is just as ridiculous.
> I’m not being rudely critical, I was right with you until that last paragraph when my eyes began rolling uncontrollably, although that may have been a stroke from reading so many of these posts.

Well the point is you cant have it both ways. My last 2 questions are the main ones, even if dipped in a little sarcasm. Sorry if I worded them wrong.

Let me try to explain:

I don’t understand their logic, them being the anti-arena Halo crowd.
They say Halo should change but then when should it change again? Why should sprint, loadouts, personal ordnance come back? Shouldn’t those change as well? And when new changes occur, should they then be changed AGAIN for the next installment?

TF2 and Gears where extreme examples of change. IMo just as extreme as adding streaks, perks , loadouts.

Either they want change or not. You cant be against building off Halo1-3 because “Halo needs change” but then want to build off of Halo 4(re-working loadouts, re-balancing AAs, returning sprint). Especially when Halo 4 is an imitation of another series which hasn’t changed since 2007, same year Halo 3 dropped. They wont admit, even though 343 already has, Halo 4 is directly influenced by modern trends. These threads are funny to me because they are guilty of what they accuse.

The way I see it is Halo doesn’t need change. Halo needs to improve the foundation fans fell in love with. Halo 3 was not perfect(Halo 2 was lol). Bungie didn’t improve with Reach, they changed it based on their ambitions with Destiny. 343 didn’t improve Halo, they changed it based on modern trends. Change has not helped Halo.

> > > People who harken back to the holy Halo trinity of CE, 2 and 3 have a strict Halo by numbers outlook on how every Halo shan’t deviate from the divine path. In my opinion CE, 2, 3, ODST, Reach and 4 have been great games and the only problems with the last two entries was too much DMR/BR and the infamous armor lock.
> >
> > That’s what I’m saying, I just don’t get why people want it to be the same thing again and again.
>
> And those same people hate on Call of Duty for being the “same” every year.

No. Its more or less hate because CoD releases a new copy every year. There was an approximate 3 year release between Halo Ce/Halo2/Halo3. Then after H3 we started getting yearly releases (spinoffs and prequels) and then people started complaining about the abandoning the sacred formula.

> > I like your logic here. It’s completely fallacious and makes little to no sense, which is why I like it.
> >
> > Your underlying point however is quite valid and I agree, but I think you completely lost it in the highlighted section there. Being accused of just wanting a re-packaged Halo 3 is just as ridiculous.
> > I’m not being rudely critical, I was right with you until that last paragraph when my eyes began rolling uncontrollably, although that may have been a stroke from reading so many of these posts.
>
> Well the point is you cant have it both ways. My last 2 questions are the main ones, even if dipped in a little sarcasm. Sorry if I worded them wrong.
>
> Let me try to explain:
>
> I don’t understand their logic, them being the anti-arena Halo crowd.
> They say Halo should change but then when should it change again? Why should sprint, loadouts, personal ordnance come back? Shouldn’t those change as well? And when new changes occur, should they then be changed AGAIN for the next installment?
>
> TF2 and Gears where extreme examples of change. IMo just as extreme as adding streaks, perks , loadouts.
>
> Either they want change or not. You cant be against building off Halo1-3 because “Halo needs change” but then want to build off of Halo 4(re-working loadouts, re-balancing AAs, returning sprint). Especially when Halo 4 is an imitation of another series which hasn’t changed since 2007, same year Halo 3 dropped. They wont admit, even though 343 already has, Halo 4 is directly influenced by modern trends. These threads are funny to me because they are guilty of what they accuse.
>
> The way I see it is Halo doesn’t need change. Halo needs to improve the foundation fans fell in love with. Halo 3 was not perfect(Halo 2 was lol). Bungie didn’t improve with Reach, they changed it based on their ambitions with Destiny. 343 didn’t improve Halo, they changed it based on modern trends. Change has not helped Halo.

I agree. (I was being a little too nit-picky earlier, I admit). And although I found Halo 4 to be fun, it certainly isn’t as competitive as Halo 3.
I don’t like lumping Reach and Halo 4 together. I see why they are lumped together in that they’re both departures from tradition, but I found Halo 4 much more enjoyable than Reach. Which isn’t to say that I don’t like Reach or that I’ve never had fun with it, I just think Halo 4 was better.

I recently have been playing through the original trilogy and they certainly have their charm.
In my perfect world, 343i would handle the story and campaign, and Bungie could handle the multiplayer. I think that’s we’re each developer shines the brightest.
Obviously, that’s not going to happen. But I’d like 343 to be able to orchestrate a natural evolution of traditional Halo and be able to modernize it without infringing on what has worked in the past. If that’s possible.

You do not understand what people are saying.

We are not asking for Halo 5 to be an exactly copy of Halo 2 or Halo 3, quite the contrary, we want Halo to evolve and be innovative from one entry to the next. However, we want Halo 5 to build off of the original trilogy and what made them successful. Let me elaborate.

Notice how I said innovative? That means we want Halo 5 to be something new and different that stands out from the rest of the crowd. What Halo 4 and, to an extent, Halo Reach, did was not innovate, but rather imitate other mainstream games. Loadouts, Sprint, Personal Ordnance Drops, Flinch… Those were all just thrown into Halo 4 without any second thought about how they work with Halo’s gameplay, which they do not. I will not elaborate more on this subject, as people have done so countless times in other threads. In short though, we want Halo 5 to build off Halo and stand out from the other first person shooters out there.

Why do people insist on saying that Halo must “get with the times” and “become modern”? What good do we get from turning Halo into another mainstream CoD copy? There’s no reason why every FPS has to be similar, as no other genre of games goes this far into copying one another. Look at RTS games, for example. Is Planetary Annihilation trying to copy StarCraft 2? Is Meridian trying to be Age of Empires? What about the MOBAs, is League trying to be Dota 2? No, to all of the previous questions.

Games are successful by standing out from the competition, and staying true to themselves. If Halo is just to become a mediocre CoD clone, why not just play CoD? The same issue happened with Battlefield 4, which also went down the route of trying to become more like Call of Duty. It ended up disappointing many fans, and ventured too far off from its roots.

So, to answer your query, why do we want Halo 5 to build off of Halo 1-3? Because that, to us, is Halo. All these additions to Halo 4 took away from the magic of Halo, and broke the gameplay we know and love for the sake of trying to “fit in”. 343i was given a winning formula, and they went and messed it up. I can appreciate them trying something new and trying to evolve Halo, but they messed up.