I feel classic Halo is marketable now.

Is is just me, or does it seem like classic Halo gameplay (Halo Ce-3) may actually be a marketable approach at this point? People LOVED classic Halo gameplay, and essentially redoing the classic feel (with perhaps just a dash of modern element) may actually be a good enough selling point to return the franchise to former glory and population maintain. What really sold me and caused me to put so much time into Halo 3 was the fact that the gameplay was so balanced and addicting as compared to the current style which requires much more balancing. The problem I think that most developers have nowadays is that they’re not as interested in replay value as they used to be. When I played Halo 3, I was always finding new things to do (with the help of awesome, innovative DLC) in the game. Halo 4 doesn’t seem like it was meant for major replay value. Once you rank up, you’re essentially done. Let’s go back to having ranks in every playlist, let’s pull CSR off of waypoint and onto the playercard! Let’s take a moment to step back and take a breather from incredibly generic modern shooters.

Bring back competitive playlists with classic gameplay. Boom problem solved. Also remove kill boundaries for campaign and make it an open sandbox again. (Launching warthogs into Scarabs?)

The things that made Halo 4 multiplayer unappealing to me:

  • No weapons on the map + static maps with no interactable sections> maps lost their unique identities > the maps became unremarkable

  • Custom Loadouts + Killcam + Personnal Ordnance + the new scoring system + perks > Halo 4 stepped deep into COD territory which made it appallingly obvious that it was stepping away from Halo territory> the multiplayer no longer feels like Halo multiplayer

  • Tens of cut gametypes that were iconic to Halo and were awesome + changing old gametypes (not always for the better) + few fun new experiences (Dominion is great, but I can’t think of much else) > the game felt incomplete and it felt like a huge step back from the variety and awesomeness that was offered in Halo Reach (which was one of the things that kept Reach alive even though it was, too, less appealing).

-EDIT: Vehicles got destroyed by Custom Loadouts (because of the Plasma Pistol and Plasma Grenades and the “Grenadier” mod).

  • The game (on the MP side) was more of a successor to Halo Reach than Halo 3 + Halo Reach was unappealing to a lot of fans > Halo 4, instead of fixing Reach’s mistakes, just plowed deeper into them (from the point of view of classic Halo players)> it seems like Halo is taking this “flawed” (to classic Halo fans) direction which is largely unappealing > players begin giving up on Halo

To sum it up it was a step back and a step off from what Halo multiplayer is supposed to be. If 343i fixed these issues, Halo multiplayer will become a hundred times better, and as stated by everyone ever- the return of a playlist split (Ranked and Social) that will offer a classic form of gameplay and a modern form of gameplay for the different types of fans will solve all of their problems.

Its been marketable for years dude. its just that when Bungie left they just wanted to try something different with Reach so thats how we got that and while AA’s and such were bad they got a bit better with Halo 4. 343 on the other hand instead of listening to the thousands of fans asking for a return to classic Halo gameplay for the 4th iteration just looked at a bunch of charts telling them what AA or gun was the most used. They can bring Halo back to the top but there going so slow -_-.

Halo 2/3 always had so many people on every day, at least 100k, Halo: Reach was kind of different, (though still my favorite.) It only had about 60k, Halo 4 is nearly completely different and BOOM 14k, see what’s happening?

> <mark>Halo 2/3 always had so many people on every day, at least 100k</mark>, Halo: Reach was kind of different, (though still my favorite.) It only had about 60k, Halo 4 is nearly completely different and BOOM 14k, see what’s happening?

I partially feel that’s due to the lack of competition Halo 2 and 3 had, if Halo 2 or 3 was released I really think they’d have less of a population

> > > > > Bring back competitive playlists with classic gameplay. Boom problem solved.quote]
> > > > >
> > > > > That doesn’t solve the problem at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. I<mark>f maps are designed with sprint and AAs and all that junk in mind, they will play very poorly without them</mark>(and slightly less terrible with them lol).
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Any playlists that are more competitive than default will draw a large amount of highly skilled players which will make the playlist inhospitable for lesser skilled players, killing the population.
> > > >
> > > > Make a different set of maps? Maybe have either one with forge maps and one with on disc maps, or split teams into making separate sets, then have different DLCs aimed at the different playlists
> > >
> > > Make two sets of maps? lol. Halo 4 already had a 100+ million budget and it had like what, 10 maps? You honestly think it’s realistic for them to create a game that has two entirely different sets of maps for two different types of play?
> > >
> > > And why even bother? Infinity settings have proven to be incredibly unpopular.
> >
> > Why not? If they can do it, they should, they have a much bigger team now than they did in the past, so it may be possible.
> >
> > It was stupid of Halo 4 to cater to casual players only, but at least 30,000 people like it, so in Halo 5 it should try cater to both, Social Halo 3 wasn’t too amazing due to Competitive players coming in so they won’t lose their ever so precious digital number, I highly doubt they’d be inclined to play Infinity, and if they tweaked Infinity it would be more enjoyable
>
> With some few tweaks Infinity would be a lot more enjoyable, and even more competitive. However, as for making two sets of maps, that is actually not a solution to the problem. In the end it’d be like two completely different games in one single game.
>
> Why split resources making two sets of maps? The more content a game has, the more difficuly QA becomes. Also with making two sets of maps you’re splitting the community.
>
> Why not instead make different games designed around the features that are in them?
>
>
>
> > > <mark>Halo 2/3 always had so many people on every day, at least 100k</mark>, Halo: Reach was kind of different, (though still my favorite.) It only had about 60k, Halo 4 is nearly completely different and BOOM 14k, see what’s happening?
> >
> > I partially feel that’s due to the lack of competition Halo 2 and 3 had, if Halo 2 or 3 was released I really think they’d have less of a population
>
> Halo had plenty of competition back in the day. There were plenty of games in the gameshelves that weren’t Halo.

Depends on what you mean by classic. I think its a no brainer to bring back classic style map weapons and remove infinity settings from the majority of playlists while having an infinity slayer play list.

I think the “perks” are unnecessary but not game breaking. I can take or leave them, which tells me you might as well leave them.

Armor abilities are part of the fabric of the game at this point, I think. I can’t imagine playing without sprint now. I think they’ve done a poor job of making armor abilities that don’t break the way other people play the game. Thruster pack and hologram with yellow dot on radar are examples of armor abilities that can be used intelligently but don’t prevent other players from playing how they want. Jet pack, armor lock, drop shield, invis, and promethean vision are examples of armor abilities that allow you to dictate to other players how they can play. I tentatively say to rebalance armor abilities but keep them in the majority of play lists.

Loadouts are where I struggle a bit more. I personally prefer to play without them, but I am also in favor of empowering the player to play how they want. I’m going to say to limit grenades to frag (pulse will probably get redesigned and plasma causes problems for vehicles and “cheap” deaths. Remove plasma pistol (vehicles) and boltshot (loadout weapon that allows the player to removes close range combat from the equation; again dictates how other players can play). But go ahead and let people decide which automatic or precision weapon (I think the precision sandbox is too crowded)they prefer to play with.

Bring back grenade pickup and think carefully about how long before dropped grenades despawn. Obviously you don’t want to create a worse grenade spamming problem, but instant respawn and the perk that allows 3 grenades has created a pretty bad problem to start with.

I already spoke to keeping armor abilities, but I’m going to say that sprint probably needs to go. We all fondly remember maps like the pit, guardian, and turf. Sprint fundamentally alters the way the game plays and prevents that type of experience.

Finally, I believe that ranked playlists are imperative. The visible ranking gives people a visible indication that they are competing against people that are of a similar skill level and let’s you see your progress in game. Having only one hyper competitive ranked playlist creates an environment filled primarily with heavily coordinated teams and campers. Social playlists should be implemented in limited fashion, as most players play without guests most of the time.

These are my hopes for Halo 5.

Even if they continue down this road of questionable and entirely unentertaining gameplay, I’d hope that they’d include a few actual classic playlists in Halo 5 at launch, or at least a diverse set of custom games options to enable completely classic custom games, and by classic gameplay, I mean Halo 2 or 3.

I feel the classic approach maybe the best choice.

Before Reach and 4 I thought it was time for Halo to branch out and innovate to keep with the times.
After speaking with several casual and hardcore gamers about the current state of Halo, they have all told me they stopped playing and being interested when Reach was released. They liked Halo before and just felt what was happening wasn’t what they expected or wanted from Halo.
They don’t represent everyone, but it was an interesting thing I noticed.

Halo just needs to go back to being Halo. Stop being something its not.

> > <mark>Halo 2/3 always had so many people on every day, at least 100k</mark>, Halo: Reach was kind of different, (though still my favorite.) It only had about 60k, Halo 4 is nearly completely different and BOOM 14k, see what’s happening?
>
> I partially feel that’s due to the lack of competition Halo 2 and 3 had, if Halo 2 or 3 was released I really think they’d have less of a population

This is not true at all. Halo 1 especially had to compete with 2 entire consoles, it wasn’t a matter of this game or that game, it was a matter of Halo 1 needing to sell an Xbox to a generation of N64 and PSO players who were most likely just going to pick up a Gamecube or a PS2. In that regard it was competing with literally everything, from Killzone, to Legend of Zelda, to Smash Bros etc. The biggest competition Halo CE had, in fact, was World of Warcraft.

Then Halo 2 had ruggid competition too. Halo 2 was released around the same time as CoD 2 (which is widely considered the best CoD game of all time), and Playstation had Killzone 2, even nintendo tried their hand at competitive FPS’ with Metroid Prime 2. And then there was GTA San Andreas, Gears of War, Unreal Tournament 2004 (often considered the best UT of all time), Doom 3, Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind etc.

Halo 3 mostly only had to compete with CoD 4, CoD WaW, BF:BC2, and Gears of War 2 before MW2 finally came along and knocked it off it’s high horse. By the time it came out, Xbox 360 was THE console, so it didn’t have to worry about competition from other platforms anymore.

In fact, you’d think Halo Reach and 4 have it easy, with all the non-Halo players being divided between Minecraft, Battlefield, and about a million different CoDs that somehow all sit above Halo on the most played charts. It’d be one thing if they were losing to just Black Ops 2, but they are losing to MW3, and BlOps 1 too. I wouldn’t be surprised if MW2, WaW, and CoD4 pass it up before long.

The reason Halo 1 and especially Halo 2 were so insanely popular was that they followed a crisp, simple, and clean formula that everyone loved. The more the franchise pulled away from this formula, the more people stopped wanting to play Halo because the things they love about it slowly got replaced with the cluttered chaotic mess we have now.

And while there is a real group of people that does like the new formula more than the old, they are an extreme minority. And a game like Halo 4 comes around every year or two anyway. A game like Halo 1 or 2 will probably never exist again unless Halo’s developers bring it back for us.

Classic Halo was always marketable.

Bungie stuffed up with RECAH by not evolving Halo 3.

343 stuffed Halo 4 by evolving REACH and not Halo 3.

It will be interesting to see what 343 do with the next Halo.

Its like when coca-cola changed their formula to compete with pepsi, only to alienate their entire consumer base.

Since then, they went back to release coca-cola “classic” and has been a success to this day.

Halo is tryin to be pepsi but needs to go back to the classic.

> Its like when coca-cola changed their formula to compete with pepsi, only to alienate their entire consumer base.
>
> Since then, they went back to release coca-cola “classic” and has been a success to this day.
>
> Halo is tryin to be pepsi but needs to go back to the classic.
>
> New Coke - Wikipedia

Very appropriate analogy. I don’t know how much faith to have, but I would be shocked if 343 were to go back to a ranked/social split and incorporated the new features in a handful of playlists while re implementing the staples of the franchise (assault, 1 flag, team slayer)and they didn’t see a much better sustained population.

Know your fan base. Would it have made sense for Christopher Nolan to make Dark Knight Rises a light hearted romp because of the success of Avengers? Its fine to make your product accessible, but when you abandon your core, you put yourself at the mercy of consumers that aren’t committed to your product.

The Die Hard franchise is actually an interesting counter point. Live Free or Die Hard was very successful at the box office while abandoning the R rating and turning itself into more of a generic summer blockbuster. Its one of my favorite movies of all time. A Good Day to Die Hard was attempting to kind of return to being a “Die Hard movie” but was a steaming pile of hackneyed dialogue.

Point of the story: change CAN be good, but it needs to be done intelligently. Don’t be afraid to grow your formula, but always remember where you come from and emphasize quality.

> Its like when coca-cola changed their formula to compete with pepsi, only to alienate their entire consumer base.
>
> Since then, they went back to release coca-cola “classic” and has been a success to this day.
>
> Halo is tryin to be pepsi but needs to go back to the classic.
>
> New Coke - Wikipedia

I’ve always viewed Halo as coke too. This new Halo formula isn’t working out so well. The Halo players hate it and furthermore can’t buy another full price Halo without tolerating overvalued bonus content, content withheld by ways of DLC, or huge features taking away from the core. And the Call of Duty (Pepsi) players don’t like it because they like Call of Duty (Pepsi).

This new Halo hybrid is an unmitigated disaster because no one wants it. Not the Halo Coke and not the Call of Duty Pepsi. Microsoft is doing precisely the same thing today. They are taking the most popular quality FPS story and gameplay Halo Coke and stowing it away into cold storage. You simply can’t get it anymore. And they’re replacing it with something that taste more like Call of Duty Pepsi.

And they’re shocked, SHOCKED! when no one wants to buy it and players shelve it. You make good Halo Coke by reiterating MORE OF that good Halo Coke.

Classic Halo, baby, it’s the real thing™

Casual gamers hate Halo 4, when me and my casual friends migrate to Halo 4 it was a feast of
“Oh no, sandvich again!!!”
“YOu steal mah yoinking KILL!!!”
“Why they spawned me in front of you??”
The only good thing i can think of the new Halo 4 is that originally the OP DMR was an excelent resource to keep my friends on my lvl. But we got back to Reach in matter of weeks…
The original Halos were always more marketable to casual and hardcore gamrs alike

Exactly. At least for one game, make it classic. If the population drops like it did with Reach and 4, then you can tell us we were wrong. Give the original fanbase a chance.

> > <mark>Halo 2/3 always had so many people on every day, at least 100k</mark>, Halo: Reach was kind of different, (though still my favorite.) It only had about 60k, Halo 4 is nearly completely different and BOOM 14k, see what’s happening?
>
> I partially feel that’s due to the lack of competition Halo 2 and 3 had, if Halo 2 or 3 was released I really think they’d have less of a population

Halo 4 started with larger population than Reach and still dropped quicker. There’s actually more people playing REACH than 4. It’s also sold nearly 9m copies to date. I don’t think “more competition” is an excuse.

> Its like when coca-cola changed their formula to compete with pepsi, only to alienate their entire consumer base.
>
> Since then, they went back to release coca-cola “classic” and has been a success to this day.
>
> Halo is tryin to be pepsi but needs to go back to the classic.
>
> New Coke - Wikipedia

Except that EVERY new Halo game has had classic gametypes and those haven’t been trampled down by mobs of rampaging fanboys looking to get their classic Halo fix. Nor did any huge mob trample down gamestop for Halo CEA. It may be self-satisfying to wish for the good ol’ days of Halo to be reprinted with yet another remake of some kind or another but as with most conservative -Yoink- it’s absolutely unworkable in practice. Both the world and yourselves have changed too much for yet another Halo to be worth anything. We need change, and change in some of the most fundamental areas of the franchise that dare to question why, for example, our semi-automatic weapons have been so poorly balanced, our sandbox so samey, our maps so stupidly simple and uninvolving, or our game modes so arbitrarily defined by the pattern of late 90’s pc gaming (campaign, multiplayer, other, ect.)

It is only then can we have an experience that can live up to our present selves, not to whoever we were 5-10 years ago.

> Its like when coca-cola changed their formula to compete with pepsi, only to alienate their entire consumer base.
>
> Since then, they went back to release coca-cola “classic” and has been a success to this day.
>
> Halo is tryin to be pepsi but needs to go back to the classic.
>
> New Coke - Wikipedia

Lol got me at the Pepsi coke wannabe.