"I don't want Halo to evolve."

Words that never been uttered out my mouth, never been typed out with sincerity, or even thought of on my end. And yet, every time I go out of my way to criticize Halo from a gameplay standpoint, those very words are put in my (and many others) mouth and shoved done my throat, without an ounce of truth backing it up.

I like thruster. It’s omni-directional and useful in and outside combat. Tweak it to be primarily a momentum changer instead of a pseudo launch pad, add a visual indication that it’s on a cool down and this mechanic has a lot of potential.
I like clamber. Give me the ability to shoot while doing it and don’t create jumps that force me to use it. Or make it an interactive environmental trait instead of a base player trait so we don’t have to create vertically massive maps to account for flow.
I like stabilize. I mostly opt out of it because I prefer to maintain my momentum, but if you could apply it without forcing me to zoom in, we could see some interesting applications.
I like the ADS animation. But I prefer to not have my view blocked by my gun, and it technically breaks canon (Smart-Link was an explanation of Halo’s zoom mechanic, not the other way around). Don’t give accuracy bonuses to weapons when they zoom (AR, SMG, Saw), otherwise it’s not just a cosmetic change like people claim. Doing that turns it into a full blown Aim Down Sights mechanic and is inappropriate for Halo’s gameplay.

Then the topic of removing sprint is brought up, and you would very easily forget everything I said above for your convenience, and proceed to shove those very words in the title down my throat without a care in the world. I’d like to speak for myself and much of the anti-sprint crowd when I say that I’m very tired of this.

There’s not a single intelligent Halo fan that doesn’t want the game to evolve or improve.

Every argument I’ve ever heard for pro-sprint is shallow and easy to shut down. I’ve yet to hear a single argument over the years that proves otherwise. Here, I’ll go through a small list of every argument I’ve heard so far.

1. It lets me go fast.
Fast base movement speed achieves this, and is superior in every way.
2. I get to locations faster.
Believe it or not, regardless or whatever mechanics are in place, it’s up to the map designers how fast you reach a location. If the map designers want you take 10 seconds to reach a location, you’re going to take 10 seconds. And since they’re bound to maintaining Halo’s original “pace” for the sake of balance, you’re not getting anywhere faster than you were in the past, except this time you are in fact required to sprint for the entire duration.
3. It’s a risk/reward.
You can justify ANYTHING with this argument. For example, Armor lock. Sacrifice all mobility for temporary invincibility and a charged EMP blast. Dump all your remaining bullets into one powerful shot at the cost of a massive reload detriment, etc.
4. It’s realistic and immersive.
Games can achieve immersion regardless of game mechanics, realism or even genre. The developers ability to fully immerse the player is entirely up to how well they can keep you from being reminded you are in fact holding a controller; that you’re just a person playing a game. Solid game design achieves this above all else.
5. Adapt or die.
I’m 5 years and 3 games in, all of which I’ve played extensively. I’ve adapted. Doesn’t mean I can’t criticize such a shallow mechanic. If anything, the person who can’t seem to handle going 1 speed for more than 5 seconds has an adaptability problem, not me.
6. Every other shooter has it.
There is no such thing as universal mechanics. Just because other shooters have said mechanic, doesn’t mean it would benefit Halo’s gameplay. Games should prioritize maintaining their gameplay, improve what they have and build off of it in a purely additive manner. If you have to significantly change something about your game to apply a foreign mechanic, you’re doing something wrong.
7. It’s modern.
There’s no such thing as outdated mechanics either. Calling it modern is pretty far fetched considering sprint as a mechanic has existed in gaming in some way, shape or form for decades. Even the original Doom had a omni-directional sprint mechanic, despite it being a largely redundant system. In fact, Halo could apply a similar system as long as we give it traits that didn’t make it redundant, but you won’t entertain that notion because it doesn’t help your argument. The only thing that’s modern about sprint is that it’s just the current trend.
8. It’s balanced now.
So is Team Rockets or Shotty Snipers. Balance doesn’t suddenly make something interesting or deep. If anything, the fact we now have a button mapped to our controller that stops our shields (A signature Halo system that inspired recharging health in dozens of games since CE) from recharging is only a sad testament to how far we are willing to go to make this mechanic work. I wonder what we’ll destroy next for the sake of unimaginative balance?
9. The old games feel slow.
If you think that now, and didn’t then when you played them back when, is that the game’s fault, or yours?
10. It’s not going anywhere.
Duel wielding was a widely popular mechanic, where is it? Reticule bloom, custom classes, armor abilities, ordinance drops are all absent. if anything, you should be thanking the people who criticized those things despite similar opposition. Sprint will always be in this position.

The absolutely mind boggling part is that I could list off all the issues (this list isn’t even complete) sprint has brought, and your immediate conclusion is I want a carbon copy of H1/2/3.

How’s this sound?
Take Halo 3, improve the gunplay and add Halo 5 weaponry with a toned down time to kill. Remove equipment and apply Thruster, clamber, stablize and Smart-link with the tweaks I suggested. Slide can be applied to the crouch button by holding it down while applying forward momentum. Spartan charge could act more like Ground pound, requiring a charge up with limited mobility. Increase the base movement speed to sprint-like values and Boom! A modern day Halo with improvements across the board without all the negative attributes of sprint. Map design could have more variety,combat and mobility wouldn’t be separate, and the overall pace of the game would actually increase.

But then again, i don’t want Halo to evolve in a meaningful way because I don’t like universal sprint.

There’s not really an argument to be made though. I’m not trying to be a -Yoink- but no one’s mind gets changed. We all have our opinions and justifications. Personally, I love sprint. I wouldn’t play a Halo game without it. I almost quit h3 day 1 because of its absence. My justification is just that; I like it. I like the idea of sacrificing your weapon availability to move faster than base speed.

There’s no right or wrong :smiley: just a passionate subject for everyone.

What is this? A reasonable person who likes old style halos but is open to halo 5s changes but isn’t an “it’s my way or no way jerk?”

> 2533274803493024;2:
> There’s not really an argument to be made though. I’m not trying to be a -Yoink- but no one’s mind gets changed. We all have our opinions and justifications. Personally, I love sprint. I wouldn’t play a Halo game without it. I almost quit h3 day 1 because of its absence. My justification is just that; I like it. I like the idea of sacrificing your weapon availability to move faster than base speed.
>
> There’s no right or wrong :smiley: just a passionate subject for everyone.

Way to downplay 5 years of arguing. Honestly, I don’t really care if people like the mechanic. Plenty of people loved duel wielding (myself included), but for the sake of weapon balance, it was removed. I understood why they removed it completely. Sprint is no different.
And I prefer to be fully mobile AND combat ready at all times. That provides more depth than any shallow mechanic could provide.
And seriously? Halo 3 not having sprint was enough to make you not want to play? I guess that logic goes both ways; I don’t want to keep playing a Halo game built off of sprint, yet I’m here anyway.

> 2533274988394857;3:
> What is this? A reasonable person who likes old style halos but is open to halo 5s changes but isn’t an “it’s my way or no way jerk?”

There are plenty of reasonable people to talk to on the matter. People who want carbon copies of H1/2/3 don’t really exist. Just people who want the series to improve and evolve in a meaningful manner.

You mean like how a t rex evolved into a chicken lol

“Good post, 10/10, would read again.” - every stupid IGN score meme ever.

All jokes aside, you wrote a really good post, and it does piss me off that people claim that we want a carbon copy of Halo 2. If all we got was Halo 2 in a modern package, I wouldn’t stick around these forums anymore. But I do want a logical sequel to Halo 3, both story-wise, content-wise, and game mechanics-wise. And so far, I haven’t seen that.

> 2533274830444029;1:
> I like the ADS animation. But I prefer to not have my view blocked by my gun, and it technically breaks canon (Smart-Link was an explanation of Halo’s zoom mechanic, not the other way around). Don’t give accuracy bonuses to weapons when they zoom (AR, SMG, Saw), otherwise it’s not just a cosmetic change like people claim. Doing that turns it into a full blown Aim Down Sights mechanic and is inappropriate for Halo’s gameplay.

100% total agreement with this statement

> 2533274830444029;4:
> > 2533274803493024;2:
> > There’s not really an argument to be made though. I’m not trying to be a -Yoink- but no one’s mind gets changed. We all have our opinions and justifications. Personally, I love sprint. I wouldn’t play a Halo game without it. I almost quit h3 day 1 because of its absence. My justification is just that; I like it. I like the idea of sacrificing your weapon availability to move faster than base speed.
> >
> > There’s no right or wrong :smiley: just a passionate subject for everyone.
>
>
> Way to downplay 5 years of arguing. Honestly, I don’t really care if people like the mechanic. Plenty of people loved duel wielding (myself included), but for the sake of weapon balance, it was removed. I understood why they removed it completely. Sprint is no different.
> And I prefer to be fully mobile AND combat ready at all times. That provides more depth than any shallow mechanic could provide.
> And seriously? Halo 3 not having sprint was enough to make you not want to play? I guess that logic goes both ways; I don’t want to keep playing a Halo game built off of sprint, yet I’m here anyway.

That’s pretty much my point. We can argue until we’re blue but neither of us is wrong or right. It’s an opinion.

I respect your opinion by the way, I hope some day we all get what we want somehow.

Cheers! And thanks for the calm, well spoken feedback by the way.

Agree with everything you said mate. You won’t get any real debate from pro sprinters, they don’t understand the mechanics of it. They start sprinting and think they are going faster, and that’s it for them. They don’t listen or read evidence or arguements. They see a post, and write the same thing every time.

> 2533274924882538;8:
> > 2533274830444029;1:
> > I like the ADS animation. But I prefer to not have my view blocked by my gun, and it technically breaks canon (Smart-Link was an explanation of Halo’s zoom mechanic, not the other way around). Don’t give accuracy bonuses to weapons when they zoom (AR, SMG, Saw), otherwise it’s not just a cosmetic change like people claim. Doing that turns it into a full blown Aim Down Sights mechanic and is inappropriate for Halo’s gameplay.
>
>
> 100% total agreement with this statement

Me too. 343I lied to hell when they said halo doesn’t have ADS… oh wait no they didn’t, they called it “Smart scope” lol sneaky people… we all know halo has ADS now… so sad. Halo zooming was the best of any FPS until they did this…

Evolve has become an empty buzzword. It’s an attempt by fanboys to attach a positive connotation and some sense of objective superiority to their unified vision of what Halo should be. Then when you oppose that vision you’re inherently made out to be some knuckle dragging caveman who can’t keep up with the times and is doomed to “die out” because he “can’t adapt”. It’s -Yoinking!- pitiful, really, that people have to rely on this fallacious nonsense to get their point across.

Let’s substitute evolve with a far more neutral term. Change.
Do games change? Almost always, the rate and significance also varies greatly.
Do games need to change? Depends on the specific circumstances, and even then in most cases its an entirely subjective matter.
Can you stop change? In theory yes, in practice usually not.
Can you influence or slow change? Yes, hence the forums and the people who post on them.

Everyone wants Halo to improve. Not everyone wants Halo to “evolve”.

> 2533274875084332;10:
> Agree with everything you said mate. You won’t get any real debate from pro sprinters, they don’t understand the mechanics of it. They start sprinting and think they are going faster, and that’s it for them. They don’t listen or read evidence or arguements. They see a post, and write the same thing every time.

I always found it highly ironic that the anti-sprint crowd understands sprint better than the pro-sprint crowd.

> 2533274819302824;12:
> Evolve has become an empty buzzword. It’s an attempt by fanboys to attach a positive connotation and some sense of objective superiority to their unified vision of what Halo should be. Then when you oppose that vision you’re inherently made out to be some knuckle dragging caveman who can’t keep up with the times and is doomed to “die out” because he “can’t adapt”. It’s -Yoinking!- pitiful, really, that people have to rely on this fallacious nonsense to get their point across.
>
> Let’s substitute evolve with a far more neutral term. Change.
> Do games change? Almost always, the rate and significance also varies greatly.
> Do games need to change? Depends on the specific circumstances, and even then in most cases its an entirely subjective matter.
> Can you stop change? In theory yes, in practice usually not.
> Can you influence or slow change? Yes, hence the forums and the people who post on them.
>
> Everyone wants Halo to improve. Not everyone wants Halo to “evolve”.

Agreed with this a pile. Great post Ramir3z77!

> 2533274819302824;12:
> Evolve has become an empty buzzword. It’s an attempt by fanboys to attach a positive connotation and some sense of objective superiority to their unified vision of what Halo should be. Then when you oppose that vision you’re inherently made out to be some knuckle dragging caveman who can’t keep up with the times and is doomed to “die out” because he “can’t adapt”. It’s -Yoinking!- pitiful, really, that people have to rely on this fallacious nonsense to get their point across.
>
> Let’s substitute evolve with a far more neutral term. Change.
> Do games change? Almost always, the rate and significance also varies greatly.
> Do games need to change? Depends on the specific circumstances, and even then in most cases its an entirely subjective matter.
> Can you stop change? In theory yes, in practice usually not.
> Can you influence or slow change? Yes, hence the forums and the people who post on them.
>
> Everyone wants Halo to improve. Not everyone wants Halo to “evolve”.

Indeed. Evolve is one of the words that gets thrown around by people who don’t really understand it. They say adding sprint is evolving halo, but having the same or similar traits to another game is not evolving. I’ve used this example before, but I’ll use it here.

If, in a field with wild plants of different species, they all ‘evolved’ similar traits (this does not really happen often, but it’s just an example) one disease can wipe them all out, because they all have similar traits and disease resistances. This is why human farms are so prone to disease, as for example, all the wheat would have the same traits-optimized to grow fast etc- and so when disease hits, they all die. But if they were all different, and had their own traits, the one that survived will pass on that trait. And thus the cycle continues. Now to halo, if halo copies what other FPS games are doing, example CoD-you can’t deny it- by adding things like sprint and other gimmicks, you are dooming halo to fail for the same reasons CoD will fail. If people get sick of the generic fps genre–I,e games like CoD with sprint and other gimmicks, they likely won’t play halo. They play unique game such as CS GO (which is so similar to the classic one). See where I’m getting at? For Halo to truly evolve, it needs new ideas, and new mechanics. Not mechanics from generic fps games. Halo never needed to fit in with the crowd, adding such mechanics dilutes the halo formula, it lessens the different feel halo has to all other games.

I love the ADS Smart-Link aiming but I really agree that we shouldn’t have to use the actual scope with the ADS animation doing so.

If I remember correctly, the thrust does have a cool down indicator. Right after you thrust a red triangle with an explanation mark will appear just to the right of your shield indicator. This red triangle will disappear when your thrust is ready to use again.

> 2533274830444029;13:
> > 2533274875084332;10:
> > Agree with everything you said mate. You won’t get any real debate from pro sprinters, they don’t understand the mechanics of it. They start sprinting and think they are going faster, and that’s it for them. They don’t listen or read evidence or arguements. They see a post, and write the same thing every time.
>
>
> I always found it highly ironic that the anti-sprint crowd understands sprint better than the pro-sprint crowd.

I know right? They claim to love sprint, but barely understand what had to be done to the game to have it in. The whole purpose of Spartan charge was to accomodate sprint (double Melee prevention while sprinting), they redesigned the whole -Yoink!- game to fit in things that everyone hated in reach. Armour abilities-sprint included. They should of thrown those out, kept what reach did well (firefight, customization–voices for example) and then added to that. But instead they did the opposite, they tried to make such things work. Sprint does work well now, but the negatives (Map design for example) are very prominent. Such things have been discussed in many threads obviously, and in your OP.

Agreed OP.

ive never once said I didn’t want halo to evolve. I just don’t like the direction it’s gone.

I still love Halo. I play Halo 5 every day.

But I’ll always hate sprint.
I’ll always hate OP autos.

Just the way I am. I’m glad that there are people out there that enjoy this game. One day I hope to enjoy Halo again as much as these guys do.

> 2533274824249516;17:
> If I remember correctly, the thrust does have a cool down indicator. Right after you thrust a red triangle with an explanation mark will appear just to the right of your shield indicator. This red triangle will disappear when your thrust is ready to use again.

I’m referring to a 3rd Person indication that your Thruster is on a cooldown. It would allow other players to anticipate your thrust, and know exactly when you’re ready to use it again. Makes the game feel less “twitchy” and more chesslike.