I don't get to play with my friends cause of SBMM in social

Gotta help them level up yo!!

Or just smurf and tell the other team to get good

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Why not just help the other team get good and smurf

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Unfortunately it looks like if you are good you are a detriment to less skilled friends. If all your friends are lower skilled then you than just don’t play with friends at all!

Isn’t it great!


It doesn’t do what it it’s intended to do which is create balanced matches. Are you daft? I couldn’t have been any more clear. I think you said you “work in gaming.” Well your comprehension skills are remedial at best. People like you kill gaming for the average consumer. I would have choice words for you if not for the eagle eyes.


Okay so it doesn’t work then. Glad we got that sorted out.

Then if it consistently doesn’t do what it’s intended to do, why are OPs friends choosing SBMM over queueing with their friend if the feature just doesn’t work?

I also notice that you completely ignored every instance in which I asked for proof/data. Hm.

Oh you definitely could have been more clear. I feel like my various quotes illustrated that a reasonable person could very easily be confused by what message you were sending.

Over 11 years! And one thing that hasn’t changed at all over the last decade is the number of pants-on-head stupid gamers who have no idea what they’re talking about.

Are you sure you wanted to use remedial in this case? I’m sure your thesaurus had way better options. Perhaps someone needs to take a remedial English course.

Feel free to send me a DM then. I promise not to report whatever grade-school-reading-level insults you decide to throw my way.

Completely agree sbmm has just ruined infinite to the point where I’ve uninstalled it. I haven’t even placed in ranked yet but I’m put into HCS style quick play lobbies based on my stats??? (I guess, no clue how it actually works). I can’t play with my friends who are plat and below because if I do the lobbies are too sweaty for them to even get a kill. If I want to play solo quick play I have to treat it like a comp match even though I just want to have fun and do some challenges. Dumbest system in existence. People complaining about pub stomping yet that happens in every halo and rarely occurs because the player population spreads the sweats out. It’s a stupid system that will just lead to the game dying even faster


SBMM has tarnished the experience for teams of differing skill level. 100%.

SBMM is actually not too bad if EVERYONE solo-queued. It’s the only situation where it actually makes sense.

When you introduce parties to this system, there will ALWAYS be an imbalance unless everyone in your party AND the opposing party is around the same skill. At this point, in matches where you’re partied with people of vastly differing skill levels, I’ll take my chances with random/connection based MM. I’ll take my chances with that instead of FORCING my friends to play against opponents above their skill level EVERY GAME.

SBMM is actually harming ‘lesser’ skilled friends. And I say ‘lesser’ because they can still be an above average player and get shafted by SBMM for teaming with someone higher.


You would think there would be a way to account for players partied up together in the SBMM. But it seems that whatever is happening is making it worse not better.

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Trueskill 2 does account for this, but it tries to match the average MMR of Team1 to the average MMR of Team2.
Unless both teams are made up of similarly skilled players, there’s already imbalance CAUSED by Trueskill 2.
Even a match of D1, D1, Onyx 1600, Onyx 1600 vs D1, D1, Onyx 1600, Onyx 1600 isn’t as balanced as it seems on paper… The D1s will get slaughtered and the Onyx will slay out. The Onyx’s play a much larger role in how the game plays out.
Trueskill 2 will ‘correct’ the average MMR of the team over time, but because of the skill imbalance going in, the matches will almost always be skewed one way or the other.

SBMM means well, and looks good on paper, but from where I’m sitting, not good in practice in all these situations.

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I’m not providing citations in a forum. Besides, hard data is difficult to come by because game companies aren’t exactly forthcoming with it.

To answer your question though, SBMM tries to create balanced matches but fails miserably. Every sbmm is different but it seems to take an average of how good it thinks the players on a team are, and match against another team with a similar average. So when our friend up here tries to play with his friends, his skill level is raising the average skill of the team and matching them against teams that the computer thinks is a similarly skilled team, while in reality, 4 solid players against 1 good player with 3 average players doesn’t really create a balanced match after all.

And btw, even in ranked, the matches are all over the place. I’m ranked plat 3 and getting onyx players in my lobbies isn’t unusual. That shouldn’t happen unless the game is already deader than we thought. Even if sbmm can work, 343’s execution of it in Infinite is abysmal.

So your claim that players will just lower their skill rating to match an enemy team is more of a hunch then?

If I had to guess, the game tries to match premade groups. So instead of it trying to match each player with someone of equal skill, it’s going to prioritize a full group of 4 vs another full group. At which point it doesn’t really have the option of mixing and matching and probably just finds similar MMR in another group.

Whether or not that’s the case, I don’t know for certain. But in my experience the matchmaking system seems to give me a fairly good mix of opponents. If they’re striving for approximately a 50% win rating with their SBMM, and I’ve got 54.6%, seems like it’s doing what’s intended.

Sure. I just looked up your match history. I see an Onyx guy in here that doesn’t really look all that impressive. You won an oddball game with a final score of 298 and 216. The onyx player was the best player on the enemy team, but his lifetime statistics aren’t all that crazy. 1.02 K/D, 43% accuracy, 51.6% win rate. Regardless, with a score tally like that, it seems like the game was a pretty even match.

The ranked system is honestly terrible, and it doesn’t actually reflect where a player is in SBMM.

No. It’s human psychology. People get complacent in the midst of competitions where their opponents are inferior. People that are losing will also play harder to try and come back and win. Often times, it’s completely subconscious. It happens in sports quite frequently when teams make comebacks. Of course average Joes sitting in their living room or bed room will be just as susceptible to these elements of human psychology. If you want data, feel free to search out some studies on the psychology of competition. They’re out there, I just don’t have the willpower to spoon feed it to you on a halo forum. Sorry, not sorry.

The game will try to match premades against other premades but this obviously isn’t always possible. So it takes an aggregate of the players’ assumed skill level and will fill the other team to try and match it. But even with solo players, the system only has the ability to choose from players that are actively searching for a match at that specific point in time. Even with a large population, trying to find 8 solo players (4 for each team) of similar skill with decent chemistry at the same time is probably such a rarity that the benefits over random matchmaking aren’t significant enough to even worry about it in social playlists. And once that population starts to dwindle, it’s useless.

Well it does make sense that players at higher ranks would have a more pedestrian K/Ds. Their average competition is quite a bit stiffer so… And that wasn’t even the first onyx I’ve played in ranked. I’ve played against at least 2 or 3 in my 20 or so matches. And the range goes from Gold 3 up to Diamond 5 fairly consistently.

How do you think the ranks are ultimately given out? You honestly believe that SBMM and Ranks have nothing to do with each other? If the ranked system sucks, it’s because SBMM is doing a poor job of matching teams and you’re ending up with a bunch of players with inaccurate ranks. Dur.

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You implied that players make a conscious choice to “play down” to their enemies’ level. But you even just defeated your own point by saying that a losing team will play better to come back and win, ergo a better player will stop “playing down” when he realizes that he’s not giving his A game.

Sure, and this is probably a good way to do it.

Not really. It’s going to aggregate all the matches they had up to the stiff competition. Plus I wasn’t looking at just the K/D. I was looking at accuracy, headshot accuracy, etc.

You know for someone that is confident enough to throw around insults, you sure do say some incredibly stupid things.

The ranked system is influenced by SBMM, but it absolutely doesn’t correlate entirely with the matchmaking system. 343 posted a lengthy breakdown of how CSR doesn’t work as well as they’d like, and there are bugs with how your rank is ultimately calculated. They specifically say that the solo/duo queue is accidentally skewed toward Diamond/Onyx when the median should be platinum. Which is an issue with the ranking system, not SBMM.


SBMM is literally ruining the game for many above average players who have to carry the bad randoms on their team, social has less SBMM so i prefer it over ranked which is a sweatfest all the time


I really doubt it’s sbmm that’s the problem. Like already mentioned Halo 3 social also had it.

Information on how to play the game efficiently is just much easier to access than it was back in 2007. You can easily copy the top tier players and many openly share their technique and game settings online.

The skill floor is much higher than it used to be.

E.G one of my friend was new to Halo for Halo 3 and played hundreds of ranked games before realising the BR was, by far, the best weapon. Things like that don’t happen anymore.

How do you think the system places the matches to begin with? Sbmm is what determines what players get put in what lobbies. Then the ranking system analyzes that and determines what the appropriate rank is. If the SBMM is what’s determining who is in the matches to begin with, then sbmm directly effects the ranking system. You need to catch up here. You’re slow.

Furthermore, it’s the sbmm that is responsible for regularly putting diamond and onyx players in plat lobbies. So even if I should be gold 3 and they should be high plat/low diamond, it doesn’t really matter because the skill is unbalanced nonetheless. The improper skewing of the ranks shouldn’t be causing imbalanced matches like that because it’s the sbmm that ultimately decides the lobby composition.

Big game companies today are so shortsighted, just riding the coattails of previous games’ names. How do you think these games gained such huge followings? They were made to be FUN first, and blew up from there. I could hop into H2 or 3 with family members who had never played and we could goof off and still have fun.

My brother came over for Christmas a couple of wks ago, having been a competent player back in h3 and Reach, and he could barely break even when playing with me. As soon as he tried the game by himself it was better (though he still disliked the game lol).

We’re watching all these companies kill their own franchises left and right by making stupid decisions for short term profits, killing their good will with fans.

Do what will make the game more fun, not what will make it more money. In the long term, the money will come and the community will be far larger.


Exactly. But always remember that at the end of the day we’re talking about greedy idiots who wear suits more expensive than most of our cars.

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