I can see why people are turned off

I’ve been having a few bad days playing Halo 4 lately, but by losing so much I can see why it dropped in player population so quickly and why people stopped playing.

Personal Ordnance causes random matchups in which you can’t know what the opponent has until it is too late. I can grab the power weapons on Longbow and sweep around the edge of the map but come up against someone with a SAW or rocket launcher and I’m dead. This is frustrating because you’re dying to many times with no way to fight against this.

Sprint closes the distance between players or lets them escape. So many times have players ran straight at me to melee me, throw and stick plasma grenades, or use the boltshot/sword/shotgun. If I catch a player out in the open, I can shoot them but they will just turn around and run into cover (even if they put themselves in a vulnerable position) because it takes so long to kill someone. This is frustrating to new players who come from Call of Duty or Battlefield because you cannot capitalize on that kill. Players come into this game, see how frustrating it is to just get a kill and go back to playing something else.

Radar has a huge range compared to past Halo games. This allows vehicles, and opponents to see you faster, sprint to cover the distance, run past grenades and overwhelm you. There have been so many times I’ve been overwhelmed by a whole aggressive team throwing grenades before they even see me because of a small red blip on their radar.

Spawns coupled with sprinting causes maps to feel small. Players will get killed, and spawn nearby (this is even more evident in FFA matches) and run right back to kill you. This is frustrating because if you barely get a kill, you can’t defend yourself fast enough. Which leads to my next point:

Shield recharge is so slow that if you kill someone, odds are they will spawn and sprint back to you as your shield is recharging. This has happened over and over again with players just running right back at me. They know where I am because of the kill cam, and if they don’t they can find me with radar.

Armor abilities are frustrating to play against because you don’t know what people have until it is too late. If you’re hiding from someone, they might have promethean vision, and therefore you’re bombarded with grenades and you die.

If you have the higher ground or catch someone unaware, they have jetpack and hold the boost while they kill you with an assault rifle. If you’re trying to gain ground on Ragnarok, you’ll get destroyed by active camo snipers or DMR/LR users. If you try to gain ground by shooting at someone, they won’t descope out so all they have to do is continue to shoot at you from a comfortable position while you are vulnerable. Even if you see the person first, odds are they will kill you first.

This is frustrating because it makes it really hard to prepare/defend/attack against such random assortment of options. Couple this idea with loadouts/perks/armor abilities and there is an endless amount of options to try and defend/attack against. Having loads of options in Call of Duty/Battlefield works because you can kill someone in a few milliseconds. Having over a second kill time (while seems very short when you read “a second”) makes this gameplay experience frustrating.

The CSR system across every playlist matches you up with super competitive people who are either far below your rank, or way above your rank. This is partly because of the low population, HOWEVER sometimes players just want to have fun. By having every playlist use CSR and trueskill so strictly (especially with parties over 3), it becomes frustrating to get beat into the ground when you don’t want to try really hard, but only just a bit.

Also there is no release “playlist”. Firefight usually handled this. If you got frustrated at multiplayer, you could load up firefight or social playlists and just take it easy and cool down. In Halo 4, Spartan Ops isn’t the same experience and if you’ve already played the campaign you’re pretty much left with quitting the game altogether. You could play forge or use the theatre but they’re not as interactive or fun for a large audience of gamers.

tl;dr: I think this is why the population dropped off so quickly: Halo 4 offers Halo but with frustrating game mechanics that play against each other and offer too much randomness to lock down a consistent experience. Other games offer a smoother, more enjoyable experience with far less frustrating “What just happened?!” moments.

I honestly thought you were more of an Infinity Slayer kind of fan than Classic. Personally, I’ve felt strongly about this since around March, but I’m surprised to see you say this.

> I honestly thought you were more of an Infinity Slayer kind of fan than Classic. Personally, I’ve felt strongly about this since around March, but I’m surprised to see you say this.

It is a surprise. I do understand what he is stating as well, but I will stick with my opinion on Halo 4. What I’m making sense of his post is that most players are unhappy because the lack of success, due to the issues that he sees.

Well, can you see why people like me were turned off from Halo?

Also, as for competitive players who try to spawncamp with power weapons. Why do they have to? Especially against the one lone player. Why can’t you just not kill him and wait out the clock? You gain nothing from killing him except for padded stats, and that player becomes frustrated and leaves the franchise thinking it’s the norm. Even if you try hunting him down to finish the match quicker, that still takes twice as long then a full team. Might as well just call a truce and go to the toilet.

> I honestly thought you were more of an Infinity Slayer kind of fan than Classic. Personally, I’ve felt strongly about this since around March, but I’m surprised to see you say this.

I think it just took me longer and a combination of being matched up against people with 20,000+ kills over deaths to pay more attention to the gameplay. There are times when you play a multiplayer game and lose a lot and say “ok, why did I lose? I’m getting out played by better opponents, but it also doesn’t help when I miss chances to kill them because of X reason”.

I liked infinity settings and it did help for players who just buy the game but as soon as you cross that threshold of mastering the basic gameplay, you get kicked down from things beyond your control or ability. This isn’t something like in Halo 3 where you can get better at and eventually rise up in skill, this is just bad gameplay mechanics fighting against each other and offering a frustrating experience.

Maybe I need to take a break for a week and come back later. Am I wrong the thinking in my OP?

> Maybe I need to take a break for a week and come back later. Am I wrong the thinking in my OP?

That’s what I’d do, take a break, come back after a while.

At least it wasn’t a all-caps rant. You stated some of the reasons why players left, and stepped onto their side of the argument and saw what they’ve felt.

“One cannot simply fix an issue with only their perspective.”

I realized this the first day this game came out.

> > Maybe I need to take a break for a week and come back later. Am I wrong the thinking in my OP?
>
> That’s what I’d do, take a break, come back after a while.
>
> At least it wasn’t a all-caps rant. You stated some of the reasons why players left, and stepped onto their side of the argument and saw what they’ve felt.
>
> “One cannot simply fix an issue with only their perspective.”

It never hurts to see both perspectives of an issue, but this one can be confusing.

There are the players that spend more time in the games and have learned about how they can and should work to offer a fair experience that people can get better at, if they put in the time and effort that is.

The other players aren’t that deep into it as the others, they like new wacky things, even if they can break gameplay to the point where the other players will be ripping their hair out, and they like or don’t mind the game helping them since they don’t put in as much time to get better and know the game. When they see the other players wanting things to be removed they freak out because things like AL or Jetpack are cool and they don’t want to see something new go away.

From what I’ve learned from my time spent on Halo forums, this is mostly because of a lack of understanding about how Halo has worked in the past and how it needs to function properly. I got on the Bungie.net forums during Reach and I didn’t have a clue why people hated Armor Lock, Jetpack, bloom, or even Sprint. Now, at times I feel like I could do well at directing the creation of the next Halo game. The more casual players often hate to see the new things go away because they don’t want the fun to go away. It’s like taking candy away from a little child that’s in a playground, they don’t understand or really care if the candy is bad for them because they just want to have fun, but they forget that they’re in a playground and were already having plenty of fun.

Either a deja vu or this is a repost… wasn’t this posted before?

It took you this long to realize this? Anyways, I agree completely.

> This isn’t something like in Halo 3 where you can get better at and eventually rise up in skill, this is just bad gameplay mechanics fighting against each other and offering a frustrating experience.

This is why I personally dislike Halo 4. For example, take sprint, instant respawn and the slow shield recharge time. On their own they’re not particularly big problems. The problem is what happens when you combine these features. The game becomes worse than the sum of it’s parts. Death by a thousand cuts.

Thanks for showing that you understand why we’ve been complaining. I had considered you one of the “Shut up! I like it” people, and for that I apologise.

> Well, can you see why people like me were turned off from Halo?
>
> Also, as for competitive players who try to spawncamp with power weapons. Why do they have to? Especially against the one lone player. Why can’t you just not kill him and wait out the clock? You gain nothing from killing him except for padded stats, and that player becomes frustrated and leaves the franchise thinking it’s the norm. Even if you try hunting him down to finish the match quicker, that still takes twice as long then a full team. Might as well just call a truce and go to the toilet.

That one tryhard still tries to kill us the whole game. I dont let myself get killed by one tryhard that also could quit when the game is lost anyway.

And it always took long to kill someone in Halo, that why I love halo, because you have to be good to kill people, not like CoD.

I also dont understand why people are still complaining about the ordonance drops. There is: CTF, BTS, Snipers, Swat (for CoD players) Slayer Pro, Legendary slayer… where you dont have random ordonance.

Of course its frustrating for someone who starts playing Halo, but thats in every game.

> I also dont understand why people are still complaining about the ordonance drops. There is: CTF, BTS, Snipers, Swat (for CoD players) Slayer Pro, Legendary slayer… where you dont have random ordonance.
>
> Of course its frustrating for someone who starts playing Halo, but thats in every game.

Why do people not like random ordnance? Probably because of things like this.

And can you tell me where it says there are no random Ordnance drops in Slayer Pro, BTS, and CTF?

Also, you think SWAT is for CoD players, really? Infinity has as much if not more of a resemblance to CoD than SWAT.

> > I also dont understand why people are still complaining about the ordonance drops. There is: CTF, BTS, Snipers, Swat (for CoD players) Slayer Pro, Legendary slayer… where you dont have random ordonance.
> >
> > Of course its frustrating for someone who starts playing Halo, but thats in every game.
>
> Why do people not like random ordnance? Probably because of things like this.
>
> And can you tell me where it says there are no random Ordnance drops in Slayer Pro, BTS, and CTF?
>
> Also, you think SWAT is for CoD players, really? Infinity has as much if not more of a resemblance to CoD than SWAT.

lol the rocket was spawning there on complex some times, the weapon drops where not complet random, the question was will the rocket spawn there in this game and when will it spawn there. But that problem doesnt even exist anymore, cause we have fix weapon spaws now like ca. two months. I would laught my -yoink- of if I was the guy in the ghost. Its funny as hell how this guy had bad luck, happens like every 500 gimes.

And yes there are no random ordonance drops in this game types. Personal ordonance is enabled and the weapons have fix spawn times. Overshield on adrift spawns every 3 Minutes, snipers on the corners are spawning every 2 minutes.

Learn the weapon spawns before you complain about it.

Swat = One shot kill and camping, thats more like CoD.

> > > I also dont understand why people are still complaining about the ordonance drops. There is: CTF, BTS, Snipers, Swat (for CoD players) Slayer Pro, Legendary slayer… where you dont have random ordonance.
> > >
> > > Of course its frustrating for someone who starts playing Halo, but thats in every game.
> >
> > Why do people not like random ordnance? Probably because of things like this.
> >
> > And can you tell me where it says there are no random Ordnance drops in Slayer Pro, BTS, and CTF?
> >
> > Also, you think SWAT is for CoD players, really? Infinity has as much if not more of a resemblance to CoD than SWAT.
>
> lol the rocket was spawning there on complex some times, the weapon drops where not complet random, the question was will the rocket spawn there in this game and when will it spawn there. But that problem doesnt even exist anymore, cause we have fix weapon spaws now like ca. two months. I would laught my -yoink- of if I was the guy in the ghost. Its funny as hell how this guy had bad luck, happens like every 500 gimes.
>
> And yes there are no random ordonance drops in this game types. Personal ordonance is enabled and the weapons have fix spawn times. Overshield on adrift spawns every 3 Minutes, snipers on the corners are spawning every 2 minutes.
>
> Learn the weapon spawns before you complain about it.
>
>
> Swat = One shot kill and camping, thats more like CoD.

So, you have no problem that a weapon spawning should be able to kill players? That the game itself can unfairly change the fate of a match? Did you play the Reach beta? Because Bungie was smart enough to realize that Ordnance drops killing players was bad and they took steps to reduce the odds of it happening in FF. They did that for just Firefight, but 343 can’t realize it’s a bad idea for Matchmaking?

As for your second paragraph, I’m not even going to try to understand that contradiction.

Right, because custom loadouts with perks and killstreaks isn’t as much like CoD as a gametype that requires you to think ahead and have a quick reaction time. SWAT isn’t random and unpredictable, like Infinity is.

Of course I meant is NOT enabled in that play lists.

Instead of talking about JIP or the lag of Halo 4 you are complaining about getting killed by a weapon spawn which happens every 500 game.
Its ridicilous to complain about that. And the weapon drops only give you damage if they drop from above, most of the time they just appear on the ground like in closed rooms.

Preach!!

I despise some of the armor abilities in this game like the jetpack and camo and personal ordinance.I liked week one of the global championship a lot because I did not have to deal with the latter.I still play infinity slayer a lot anyway.I mostly like the pro gametype in that mode because I don’t have to deal with that the jetpack, camo or personal ordinance.

OP, I thought that was a very well thought out explanation of why you dislike Infinity settings. Maybe just because I agree with you, but oh well. :stuck_out_tongue:

I just cannot bring myself to choose Infinity gametypes due to the randomness brought especially through Personal Ordnance, but also random Ordnance and perks. Halo has always been about strategy and teamwork, and that’s gone in Infinity. It’s like playing a game of Checkers where pieces are randomly converted into Kings–any positioning or strategy that I’ve built up until that point is thrown out the window, whether it was my piece or the enemy’s.

The big resemblence I see between Infinity in Halo 4 and Call of Duty’s gameplay is that Call of Duty is lone-wolf friendly and team indifferent: everything you use in the game spawns on you. There is no map or power weapon control. Sounds like Infinity, doesn’t it? That’s why in CoD, whether all of the players work separately or together, their effectiveness is the same.

On the other hand, Halo, due to on-map power-ups/power weapons, movement/map position, vehicles, and time-to-kill, has always required teamwork in order to win effectively. There are many times that I’ve lost objective-based games when everyone on my team was better than everyone on the other team because the other team played as a team and we played as individuals.

IMO, Armor Abilities are broken and will always be broken because they are able to be used at-will and multiple times. Notice no one complained about Active Camo until it was made an Armor Ability? If all Armor Abilities were more like power-ups or Equipment (from Halo 3), meaning they were on-map pickups and one use only, they would be a lot more balanced.

> Either a deja vu or this is a repost… wasn’t this posted before?

You mean this post by me?: https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst153121_A-Frustrating-Multiplayer-Experience-at-Best.aspx