After UrDidacts conversion of millions on New Pheonix. How do you think the UNSC and ONI will react if IsoDidact shows up with his posse…or their descendants?
Badly. Humanity has gotten fried too many times for them to be warm and inviting.
> Badly. Humanity has gotten fried too many times for them to be warm and inviting.
Offending Iso-Didact and his Forerunners won’t improve Humanity’s position in the galaxy. Nor will the UNSC so likely turn down Forerunner aid against the Ur-Didact and the fragmenting Covenant hegemony.
> Offending Iso-Didact and his Forerunners won’t improve Humanity’s position in the galaxy. Nor will the UNSC so likely turn down Forerunner aid against the Ur-Didact and the fragmenting Covenant hegemony.
“Hey Admiral, you remember those aliens that are always trying to kill our whole species?”
“Yeah.”
“Well here comes another bunch and they’re asking us to trust them. BTW, they look a lot like that Didact guy. You know, one of those aliens that are always trying to kill our whole species.”
“Welp, better do as they say, we sure don’t want to risk offending them.”
Hard to say if they will show up at all considering that the Composer and Requiem were both destroyed.
Unless the Composer was able to transfer the acquired data to another Forerunner instillation that could manufacturer Knights, Crawlers and Watchers. (Oh My) I think that the humans that were digitized by the Composer were probably lost.
Though, if the Didact did survive … and knowing that he had a God status with the Covenant I’m sure that he could whip up one heck of an Army to take on Humanity … and they would probably be more aggressive than the Profit’s Covenant was.
> > Offending Iso-Didact and his Forerunners won’t improve Humanity’s position in the galaxy. Nor will the UNSC so likely turn down Forerunner aid against the Ur-Didact and the fragmenting Covenant hegemony.
>
> “Hey Admiral, you remember those aliens that are always trying to kill our whole species?”
>
> “Yeah.”
>
> “Well here comes another bunch and they’re asking us to trust them. BTW, they look a lot like that Didact guy. You know, one of those aliens that are always trying to kill our whole species.”
>
> “Welp, better do as they say, we sure don’t want to risk offending them.”
Yep. I don’t see what’s wrong with that scenario whatsoever, except the obvious caricature you set out to create in order to discredit my position. The real deal would have a little more consideration than that.
Whenever you are up for a proper refutation of what I said, outlying exactly how telling the Iso-Didact and his Forerunners to go -Yoink- himself would result in a net gain in security for the UNSC, I’ll be here.
I mean, he has a point. I don’t expect they’d actually tell them to -Yoink- off (even if in kinder words). They don’t have any way to back up those words. But they’ll definitely be wary.
Honestly, I think they won’t be sure how to react. The Didact almost committing genocide was kinda out of left field based on their previous knowledge of the Forerunners. I think they’d be unsure of how the Didact’s views matched up with the rest of the Forerunners. Their course of action would probably be to hold their breath, recall their ships, and hope that either the Forerunners are still friendly or that they somehow don’t notice them.
By the way, Anton, the term is “Strawman”.
> > Offending Iso-Didact and his Forerunners won’t improve Humanity’s position in the galaxy. Nor will the UNSC so likely turn down Forerunner aid against the Ur-Didact and the fragmenting Covenant hegemony.
>
> “Hey Admiral, you remember those aliens that are always trying to kill our whole species?”
>
> “Yeah.”
>
> “Well here comes another bunch and they’re asking us to trust them. BTW, they look a lot like that Didact guy. You know, one of those aliens that are always trying to kill our whole species.”
>
> “Welp, better do as they say, we sure don’t want to risk offending them.”
“Hey Admiral, you remember those aliens that have been trying to kill our whole species for almost 30 years?”
“Yeah.”
“Well here comes another bunch and they’re asking us to trust them. BTW, they’re those Sangheili guys. You know, those aliens that have just spent almost 30 years trying to kill our whole species.”
There’s a distinctively ignorant lack of context in your post…
Modern humanity knows very little about their past relations with the Forerunners, this is one of the reasons why Chakas was interrogated by the Rubicon crew. The notion that they’d just flat out judge an entire species because of one Forerunner who was driven mad by the Gravemind’s malediction is completely asinine.
I’d like to think humans and Forerunners could get along and work with eachother.
> I mean, he has a point. I don’t expect they’d actually tell them to -Yoink!- off (even if in kinder words). They don’t have any way to back up those words. But they’ll definitely be wary.
> Honestly, I think they won’t be sure how to react. The Didact almost committing genocide was kinda out of left field based on their previous knowledge of the Forerunners. <mark>I think they’d be unsure of how the Didact’s views matched up with the rest of the Forerunners.</mark> Their course of action would probably be to hold their breath, recall their ships, and hope that either the Forerunners are still friendly or that they somehow don’t notice them.
>
> By the way, Anton, the term is “Strawman”.
Or they could listen to John’s debriefing regarding what the Librarian told him or the data strings regarding the final years of the Forerunners that is Silentium. Both of those would show that the Ur-Didact’s actions were not viewed highly by the rest of his kind.
> I’d like to think humans and Forerunners could get along and work with eachother.
From Halo: Rebirth.
> “We will do what we can with what we are given,” Riser said. “But what of you? Where will the Forerunners live?”
>
> “I do not know,” Bornstellar said, “Not yet. All I know for certain is that we cannot return to these places. We have already meddle too much in the affairs of others.”
>
> Riser grimaced. “Forerunners refusing to meddle? Is that a promise?”
>
> “A promise,” Trial said.
>
> “Truly this will be a different place,” Riser said.
>
> “The portal will stay,” said Bornstellar.
>
> “Ah, then you have lied,” Riser said, but with no anger or surprise.
>
> “It will be buried to be found when needed. Perhaps one day your children will make their way back, and, I hope, meet our children.”
>
> “I doubt even I will long enough to see that day,” said Riser.
>
> “But it is good to think our young will rise to another challenge, as brothers should, making trouble, finding strength.”
>
> Bornstellar felt this deeply, and even with his armour to protect him, the emotion was almost too much. “Hope,” was all he could say. Then they returned to the fish-ship and left the humans alone to find their way.
And the Bornstellar Relation, showing that the Forerunners aren’t a purely evil race that wants to wipe out humanity.
Even the Requiem Terminals would show that the Didact was kind of unique in his genocidal views. That’s assuming the Terminal data was stored in Chief’s armor or perhaps uploaded to Infinity when Cortana was there.
And, just as an aside, being paranoid, xenophobic -Yoinks!- hasn’t exactly been a helpful habit for humanity in its history.
> > I’d like to think humans and Forerunners could get along and work with eachother.
>
> From Halo: Rebirth.
>
>
> > “We will do what we can with what we are given,” Riser said. “But what of you? Where will the Forerunners live?”
> >
> > “I do not know,” Bornstellar said, “Not yet. All I know for certain is that we cannot return to these places. We have already meddle too much in the affairs of others.”
> >
> > Riser grimaced. “Forerunners refusing to meddle? Is that a promise?”
> >
> > “A promise,” Trial said.
> >
> > “Truly this will be a different place,” Riser said.
> >
> > “The portal will stay,” said Bornstellar.
> >
> > “Ah, then you have lied,” Riser said, but with no anger or surprise.
> >
> > “It will be buried to be found when needed. Perhaps one day your children will make their way back, and, I hope, meet our children.”
> >
> > “I doubt even I will long enough to see that day,” said Riser.
> >
> > “But it is good to think our young will rise to another challenge, as brothers should, making trouble, finding strength.”
> >
> > Bornstellar felt this deeply, and even with his armour to protect him, the emotion was almost too much. “Hope,” was all he could say. Then they returned to the fish-ship and left the humans alone to find their way.
I remember listening this. Hopfully nothing changes and the Forerunners do find there way back to become humanitys friends.
I’m trying to imagine what the galaxy would be like if they did return. Thing would be diffrent.
> I mean, he has a point. I don’t expect they’d actually tell them to -Yoink!- off (even if in kinder words). They don’t have any way to back up those words. But they’ll definitely be wary.
>
> Honestly, I think they won’t be sure how to react. The Didact almost committing genocide was kinda out of left field based on their previous knowledge of the Forerunners. I think they’d be unsure of how the Didact’s views matched up with the rest of the Forerunners. Their course of action would probably be to hold their breath, recall their ships, and hope that either the Forerunners are still friendly or that they somehow don’t notice them.
Being wary and implying that they would be offensive and hostile and turn down offers of help aren’t really the same thing though. This is the reality of the situation: If the Forerunners were hostile, then they wouldn’t feign benevolence. They would just use their massive technological advantage and military-industrial might to promptly crush the UNSC. I mean, did the Ur-Didact feign benevolence or ask any questions before turning on the composer beam? Can you tell me what purpose would be served by a race as powerful as the Forerunners feigning benevolence for some malicious hidden agenda rather than just outright using their power to achieve their goals?
What if they are feigning benevolence then? How does the UNSC improve its security by declining offers of help and peace? You seem to understand that though, that it wouldn’t change diddly squat.
If a Forerunner is offering peace rather than just annihilating entire sections of your planet like the Ur-Didact started doing, no questions asked, then it’s probably a safe bet that they are friendly, and turning them away not only turns away an ally that will make fears of resurging Covenant factions a thing of the past, it will also deny an effective counter measure to the spread of any new religions popping up around the Ur-Didact’s hatred of mankind (This is a serious issue that I don’t think has been given enough attention), as well as in offering ways to fight the Ur-Didact effectively. It also deny humanity access to technology and knowledge that will put them eons ahead of hostile Covenant factions.
Additionally, the totally loaded assumption that the UNSC will approach the Iso-Didact with the opinion that “Aliens try to kill us all the time” is absurd nonsense on the very basis that the UNSC has been witness to the breaking down of the Covenant hegemony into many different and diverse groups of different political views. However, when Forerunners come along that differ from the attitude of the Ur-Didact, the UNSC is just going to toss aside these experiences and judge all Forerunners as being the same?
The kind of behavioral nonsense as seen in Kilo-5 is not a very clever nor realistic way to act in the face of other local polities whose power vastly eclipses your own. That’s why Kilo-5 is largely panned. It makes no sense, and the decisions made are not in anyone’s best interests, just like the decision to tell the Forerunners to piss off would serve no one’s interests but those who wish the destroy humanity. The UNSC isn’t going to stick the finger up at benevolent Forerunners. It’s one of those situations where there is absolutely nothing to lose by accepting, but everything to lose by declining.
> By the way, Anton, the term is “Strawman”.
I think that caricature and strawman can be used synonymously. If not then so be it.
> And the Bornstellar Relation, showing that the Forerunners aren’t a purely evil race that wants to wipe out humanity.
They don’t know of the events of Silentium though, right?
There’s a decent sized gap that they don’t know what happened during. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to think that something maynhave changed during that window.
> Even the Requiem Terminals would show that the Didact was kind of unique in his genocidal views. That’s assuming the Terminal data was stored in Chief’s armor or perhaps uploaded to Infinity when Cortana was there.
True. Hang on a moment…
Alright. Assuming Cortana uploaded the terminals to Infinity, then they’d have terminals one through four, which… doesn’t give the best impression.
Check out four: http://www.halopedia.org/Halo_4_Terminals
If Cortana uploaded them to his suit, then yeah, they probably wouldn’t worry too much. Not much more than for any other comparably massive OCP.
> -snip-
I…never said anything about feigning benevolence.
> I think that caricature and strawman can be used synonymously. If not then so be it.
To each their own.
> > -snip-
>
> I…never said anything about feigning benevolence.
It’s kind of assumed though when one speaks about the UNSC either being wary or being offensive (As the other guy put it by saying relations would be “bad”) to the Forerunners.
I never said anything about going on the offensive.
I said hope they’re benevolent, and on the off chance they’re not, hide and hope they somehow don’t find you. Standard OCP protocol, really, but a bit more hoping they don’t find you on account of the first one you met trying to kill you all, even though he was acting alone.
> They don’t know of the events of Silentium though, right?
Yes, they do. Read the first few pages of the book again. Silentium is indisputably reliable as a source because it’s told from the records of a deceased Catalog, designated by ONI as the 879th piece of Forerunner remains they’ve recovered. They even mention the Bornstellar Relation (the means through which Cryptum’s events were told) and Chakas.
> Alright. Assuming Cortana uploaded the terminals to Infinity, then they’d have terminals one through four, which… doesn’t give the best impression.
Um… why?
> “Shall we take revenge? Abandon the Mantle and all that its philosophy has given us these thousand generations? […] The Mantle is our guide-post in times such as these. We must not falter in following its teachings. The enemy must be sent home, and taught to stand with the galaxy, rather than rail against us, and take what they desire! The Mantle shelters all.”
This portrays the Didact in a benevolent, considerate and noble light while acting according to his nickname - didact, a teacher.
Terminal 2 would show John that what the humans were doing at the time was out of necessity.
Terminal 3 would show John the remorse that Librarian felt for what happened with humanity and that our geneplan was destined to surpass the Forerunners’, while also showing the beginnings of the Ur-Didact’s antagonism as he states that the Mantle belongs only to the Forerunners.
Terminal 4 would reveal that the Forerunners were not aware of the true threat that necessitated humanity’s actions, while Forthencho willingly surrendered to the Didact. This would also show the Didact’s fear of the coming war with the Flood and tie into the last few Terminals where he is driven to desperate measures to stop them without firing the Halos.
There’s no ‘impression’ to give here, it’s largely a tragedy of circumstance which led to some of the things that happened.