Human supremacy and the dregradation of lore

Halo has always been a favorite series of mine ever since I can remember, from the story to the gameplay to the visuals, it has always been a game I could pick up after work or school and relax with. However one this has disheartened me with the recent turn the halo series has taken, and that is the story.
I feel that the writing that has gone into the halo universe since 343’s take over was not of the same quality as that of Bungie’s and I will elaborate on why.

-Covenant Civil War: The covenant civil war was something done by bungie as we all know, however its entire impact was not very detailed and instead covered by 343 with their supplementary installments of lore (such as The Return) and what they covered was, for the most part, very good (in my opinion). However when 343 inherited Halo thing seemingly went down hill…

My pains with what happened stem from the end result of it, humanity seemingly recovering from their titanic losses overnight and the once invincible covenant empire now some how thrown into the dark ages. Surely I cannot be the only one to think this sort of thing is horrid writing, when empires throughout history had civil wars- even faithbased civil wars, they were not thrown into the dark ages like that. And I have heard the argument that since the covenant were caste based they would not have been able to recover, but this is just salt on the wound, they would not be so divided that something like that would last for long, and not even the argument of the engineers disappearing is very convincing.
In short, the covenant civil war’s end result just seems as though the writers were wanting for a quick fix to get rid of an element of the story they did not like (which while I understand, I do not think it was something that should have been done to a major power in the halo universe).

-Contact with the Forerunners: Humans being descended from the forerunners or influenced by them is not new, and its probably a concept that is as old as halo itself, but the contact made with them in Halo 4 was one of the biggest disappoints I have had with the halo series.
I read (and still have) Cryptum and I loved it, references to ancient earth in forerunner technology was very interesting and the glimpse into forerunner life was thrilling, however the depiction of the forerunners in halo 4 was not what I expected, and they seemed to be little more then figureheads that were telling the humans that ‘they were chosen ones’ and that, for all intensive purposes, every race in the covenant was little more then bumbeling apes (that had brought the master race to its knees). I found it a little humorous actually, to think that if humanity continued down the path it was heading in halo 4 for a few generations they would have the same religious zealotry as the covenant ‘barbarians’ had.

-" 'Manity! F*ck yeah!": This seemed to be the single most annoying thing with halo 4 I experienced, humanity had two major changes from previous titles.

First, humanity was now simply American, as if America had some how out bred all other major cultures on earth and went on to do the same on every human colony. I will note that with the later halo games the characters become more and more american, but with the early halo games there is distinct variation in the accents of the soldiers and characters.

Second was that humanity has now turned into some kind of unstoppable steam roller, where undisciplined jar heads in economical super suits now have the same strength as a dozen aliens that have done nothing (as we’re lead to believe by 343) but fight for generations and generations (and they breed appropiately for their job in life aswell). Further more their fights are almost always laughable, in the era of halo 3 marines were being cut down by covenant forces at alarming rates and now covenant are akin to mentally disabled children in the difficulty of cutting them down.

And with that, I end my list, Halo 4’s story was extremely disappointing, seeing missed opportunity and writing of some of the lowest quality I have seen in the halo series I sincerely hope that the next Halo game reverts from its current course.
And yes, before you jump to tell me that its an arcade game and lore is probably the last thing they are concerned about, I am aware, but still sadden to see a franchise with some excellent story behind let that fall to the wayside in order to appease a financial goal.

(And I apologize if this is the wrong section, I was unsure which section it would go to since it pertained to lore, halo 4, previous halo games, and the next halo.)

You know, there’s been no real evidence to show that the UNSC is now the most powerful faction in the galaxy. Sure, they’ve done well for themselves all things considered, but besides Infinity and a few technology upgrades, nothing suggests that they are in a much better position than the other factions. Even the visual guide notes that there has been civil unrest on Earth of all places.

And I don’t see why the Sangheili’s seeming stupidity is so unbelievable. We’re talking about a war-focused culture that considers the idea of doctors a disgrace. When they can devote even more of their brainpower to battle while the client races of the Covenant handle things such as engineering and agriculture, it’s not hard to see why the Sangheili seem inept after the Covenant’s fall.

If they were the master tacticians and powerful warriors they are described to be then I’d agree with your comment about the sangheili, however they fail to do that, even in cutscenes of halo 4, furthermore there is much more to fighting then just, well, fighting, and this is highly ignored by 343, tasks like field medics and combat engineers would not be given to such valuable assets as engineers and prophets, and elites would probably be doing those roles, even while they culturally disapproved of doctors.

Additionally you do point out that no one directly states humanity is in a better position then anyone else, but the opening scene of spops with the infinity and its support ships destroying covenant vessels with single shots and even rams without getting so much as paint scratches clearly shows the direction the writers are taking.

I think I should clarify this thread and say I’m more complaining about the quality of the lore and the writing in general then the individual points of lore themselves.

> And I don’t see why the Sangheili’s seeming stupidity is so unbelievable. We’re talking about a war-focused culture that considers the idea of doctors a disgrace. When they can devote even more of their brainpower to battle while the client races of the Covenant handle things such as engineering and agriculture, it’s not hard to see why the Sangheili seem inept after the Covenant’s fall.

This^

Not to mention that the Sangheili had complete reliance on the Covenant for almost two thousand years. That’s two millenniums of having other species’ do everything for them.

Who needs farmers when you have Unggoy raising your crops? Who needs mechanics and engineers when you have Huragok making all of your ships? Who needs technological progression when you have access to tons of Forerunner stuff?

Is it shocking that they’re having trouble returning to normal?

> Additionally you do point out that no one directly states humanity is in a better position then anyone else, but the opening scene of spops with the infinity and its support ships destroying covenant vessels with single shots and even rams without getting so much as paint scratches clearly shows the direction the writers are taking.

Part of the sheer devastation that Infinity laid on the Covenant Remnant’s fleet on Requiem was due to how is was the complete element of surprise. The Covenant Remnant wasn’t expecting an attack; therefore, none of their ships needed to have their shields up (which require a lot of energy to power).

> I think I should clarify this thread and say I’m more complaining about the quality of the lore and the writing in general then the individual points of lore themselves.

I believe that it’s just a matter of giving 343 time to “polish” themselves and the stories they want to tell, and that includes finding the right authors and writers. I think we can all agree that the Forerunner Saga was great.

Are we just going to forget how the Didact’s one ship soloed the entire Earth defense fleet with hardly a scratch? He left Requiem, picked up the Composer and a free hundred free conscripts from Ivanoff, then jumped to Earth all within, what? A couple hours?. “Oh don’t mind me, just wiping your civilization from the face of the galaxy. Yawn

Not sure how that screams “Humanity, Yoink! yeah!” There are obviously much bigger fish than us in the sea.

> Are we just going to forget how the Didact’s one ship soloed the entire Earth defense fleet with hardly a scratch? Not sure how that screams “Humanity, Yoink! yeah!”

Well, it did get a hole punched through it from a MAC blast from Infinity, so it wasn’t invincible.

Either way, the whole ‘Human Supremacy’ is more or less of propaganda. While the Spartan IV’s and Infinity sure do outmatch its rivals, that’s only a thin coat of gold over a worm-ridden and rotten apple.

We can call this Humanity’s “Gilded Age.”

> > And I don’t see why the Sangheili’s seeming stupidity is so unbelievable. We’re talking about a war-focused culture that considers the idea of doctors a disgrace. When they can devote even more of their brainpower to battle while the client races of the Covenant handle things such as engineering and agriculture, it’s not hard to see why the Sangheili seem inept after the Covenant’s fall.
>
> This^
>
> Not to mention that the Sangheili had complete reliance on the Covenant for almost two thousand years. That’s two millenniums of having other species’ do everything for them.
>
> Who needs farmers when you have Unggoy raising your crops? Who needs mechanics and engineers when you have Huragok making all of your ships? Who needs technological progression when you have access to tons of Forerunner stuff?
>
> Is it shocking that they’re having trouble returning to normal?

If I recall correctly the caste system in India was introduced in 1500BC, fast forward to the british occupation in about 1800AD and you don’t see house servants sitting on their hands say “Welp, we can’t revolt because we’re house servants and we literally don’t know how to fight.” (For those of you trying to do the math thats about 33 thousand years of castes if my limited knowledge of indian history is correct).
Furthermore you could point to the numerous civil wars that have happened to empires throughout history that failed to cause them to collapse and revert to the stone age again, so saying a caste based empire would go back to a stone age from a single civil war is a rather poor thing to say.

Now as I noted this was more a remark on the quality of writting and not the specific points of the writing, “Humanity, chosen race of the forerunners out of all other races, had a single city destroyed by a promethean ship only to have Master Chief destroy it with a nuclear bomb in something akin to a suicide bombing only to live- which was right after he survived being attacked by the same ship thanks to his master race genes from the forerunners!” I could go on, and be countered, and then counter that, in an endless circle, but that is not what my point was.

My point was that for a first game in what they want to be a saga, the writing was horrid, and many have noted this, and I do understand that 343 is wanting to get a footing, but the ‘spartan identity’ and Karen Traviss’s books, and several other noteable bits of lore that have come out since 343 took over, have all been sub par with the previous qualities, and my urge, and even plea for this thread, is to stop the course of story writing they are taking.

Would you rather them return to the stereotypicical ‘action film’ writing that Bungie resorted to a lot?

While I’ll admit that Halo 4’s writing had some shortcomings, compared to Halo Reach and 3, which easily have the worst stories by a long shot, Halo 4 did a lot of things that Bungie always avoided: putting more emphasis in character development rather than drama.

> If I recall correctly the caste system in India was introduced in 1500BC, fast forward to the british occupation in about 1800AD and you don’t see house servants sitting on their hands say “Welp, we can’t revolt because we’re house servants and we literally don’t know how to fight.” (For those of you trying to do the math thats about 33 thousand years of castes if my limited knowledge of indian history is correct).

I think that’s a bad comparison.

Give a bunch of farmers swords. “Stick them with the pointy end.” Congratulations, you’ve just raised an army to rival any of medieval Europe.

That process doesn’t work in reverse. It’s fundamentally easier to kill than it is to give life, unfortunately.

> Well, it did get a hole punched through it from a MAC blast from Infinity, so it wasn’t invincible.

A hole it promptly filled back up.

> Are we just going to forget how the Didact’s one ship soloed the entire Earth defense fleet with hardly a scratch? He left Requiem, picked up the Composer and a free hundred free conscripts from Ivanoff, then jumped to Earth all within, what? A couple hours?. “Oh don’t mind me, just wiping your civilization from the face of the galaxy. Yawn
>
> Not sure how that screams “Humanity, Yoink! yeah!” There are obviously much bigger fish than us in the sea.

> The new area is round and surrounded by particle cannons. A tunnel at the center leads down to the interior of the ship, but begins to close off.
>
> Cortana: “There it is… No, wait!”
> John-117: “Infinity, the Didact just closed off our entrance to the Composer.”
> Lasky (COM): “We could try punching a hole in that hull plating, but Infinity won’t be able to get a clear shot with all that flak.”
> John-117: “We’ll take care of the guns.”

That’s why

Worst writing of any Halo?! Hardly, instead of treating John like some incredible emotionless, badass in previous games like Bungie did (ironically people forget this and bashed Palmer for it), they focused on his emotions with Cortana and his path towards what it’s like to be human. We’re finally starting to see the real John (from the books). I sincerely hope that Blue Team also will come into the games finally fingers crossed.

Like others have said, Humanity is hardly at the top of the food chain, ONI just likes to pretend they are. As for the Covenant, the Engineers is part of the reason why they became so technologically inept. Also due to the fact when the civil war happened, old rivalries began to emerge again between the Sangheili and the Jiralhanae. Let’s also not forget that the only reason the Kig-Yar were indoctrinated into the Covenant was because they were willing to pay them off to join them, as we all know the Kig-Yar are simply a “for-hire” race. And once the prophets were out of the picture they were simply leaderless, afterwards many found out the truth that their religion was simply a lie.

I personally didn’t care for Bungie’s storytelling. They wanted to make their own thing and pretend the books didn’t exist, and went as far as to say that their games always trumps whatever happens in the books. 343i on the other hand have shown to us that they really care about the universe, the only thing that disappointed a lot of people in Halo 4 was the multiplayer (I personally enjoyed it though) and Spartan Ops, mainly because it was really repetitive. The books have been really great as well, especially the Forerunner Saga. The only thing that has disappointed me so far is the Kilo-5 trilogy, but that’s a discussion for another day.

EDIT: also shouldn’t this post belong in the Universe forums?

Since 343i have taken over the lore has only gotten better. Master Chief is no longer silent. The Forerunner saga was amazing and Halo 4 campaign story had more depth then Halo Combat Evolved, Halo 2 and Halo 3 combined.

Also where has it been stated that humans are top dogs? The Mantles Approach just seemed to walk through Earths fleet, Infinity gets bored and almost destroyed and did you see what happened in the latest issue of Halo Escalation? Humanity has a long way to go before becoming the super power of the galaxy.

I think you and others are more upset at the fact that it’s the UNSC more than anything else. Tons of people have read the Forerunner novels and there’s hardly any complaints about the Ancient Human Empire who were second to only the Forerunners in terms of technology and even then, rivaled them in some aspects. They’re far more advanced than the UNSC and Covenant yet again still no complaints.

Humanity may be in a better position than some of the other species, but they’re hardly in a position to say they’re a super power. Super powers have enormous fleets, tons of worlds, brilliant leaders, great industrial capacity, etc, etc. The UNSC is failing on all these accounts at the moment. Them being a super power is propaganda spread mainly from ONI.

> > The new area is round and surrounded by particle cannons. A tunnel at the center leads down to the interior of the ship, but begins to close off.
> >
> > Cortana: “There it is… No, wait!”
> > John-117: “Infinity, the Didact just closed off our entrance to the Composer.”
> > Lasky (COM): “We could try punching a hole in that hull plating, but Infinity won’t be able to get a clear shot with all that flak.”
> > John-117: “We’ll take care of the guns.”
>
> That’s why

Oh yeah, I’m so proud of how the finest ship humanity has ever built could do no more than give the beast a poke, but only after it was forced to run lest it get taken out by point-defense guns. Such power. Much might. Wow.

> > Are we just going to forget how the Didact’s one ship soloed the entire Earth defense fleet with hardly a scratch? Not sure how that screams “Humanity, Yoink! yeah!”
>
> Well, it did get a hole punched through it from a MAC blast from Infinity, so it wasn’t invincible.
>
> Either way, the whole ‘Human Supremacy’ is more or less of propaganda. While the Spartan IV’s and Infinity sure do outmatch its rivals, that’s only a thin coat of gold over a worm-ridden and rotten apple.
>
> We can call this Humanity’s “Gilded Age.”

I like the historical reference there.

> > Well, it did get a hole punched through it from a MAC blast from Infinity, so it wasn’t invincible.
>
> A hole it promptly filled back up.

I don’t know where I would have been without that information.

/sarcasm

Well, I don’t expect the Covenant Remnant being all that powerful, they’re just a small terrorist faction, it should be cakewalk for the Infinity to take down their ships and soldiers on the ground. However if it was the Covenant Empire against the Infinity or the new advanced “top-dogs” of humanity it would just be what it was like during the Human-Covenant war. But don’t worry, when the main enemy of the Reclaimer Saga returns (The Didact, Promethean’s, or anything that’s Forerunner in origin from the Didact’s side), humanity will be brought down to its knees once again; Halo 5 is to be the darkest of all Halo games.