So it’s no secret that people don’t like the progression system. So I thought I would try and make a dedicated thread to discuss potential fixes to progression.
But first, there are a few things we need to understand about the progression, why it works the way it does and why people don’t like it.
Let’s tackle the first major issue which is the challenges themselves:
These challenges are set up to promote people to play game modes and do things they normally wouldn’t do, push them out of their comfort zone a little bit so they can experience a little bit more of the game and maybe find something new they like, all while being rewarded for it.
Next, why xp is tied to weekly challenges?:
This is most likely to prevent people from blasting through the battle pass in a week by generally limiting the amount of xp a player can get every week. A battle pass is designed to keep people playing, if it doesn’t do that then there isn’t any longevity to the game, which is bad. People aren’t meant to burn though these passes as you do keep them forever.
That all being said, the way the challenges are setup is quite frankly damaging to the player experience and removes any and all agency, solely placing progression on the game itself rather than the player’s skill. When a player gets a challenge to “Play 3 stronghold matches” the only way to get into a stronghold game is to pick a playlist that has several other game modes in it. That xp is locked behind dice that you are only able to roll once every 10 minutes.
This exact scenario is happening to me as this is my final challenge to complete this week. I have only gotten into 1 stronghold game in the last 2 days. I feel trapped and frustrated by the game when this happens. And that sourness has me sighing in frustration and almost wanting to leave the match when it’s not the mode I’m looking for.
For my own personal opinion about this and how to fix it, it can be fixed with a few simple things.
Reward the player for playing the game how they are supposed to, or even just playing at all:
The player should get a guaranteed small amount of xp every game, on top of that they should also get supplemental performance and teamwork xp based off the amount of respective medals they get in either category, just like MCC.
It doesn’t have to be a lot but it has to contribute also.
Stop the player from grinding 24/7:
Give the player 2x or even 3x match based xp for a certain amount of games per week/day. This is so that casual players who only have so much time each week can feel like they are making progress, but hardcore players are not able to blast them out of the water but still get something for the dedication.
Let the player choose:
Allow more granular control of what game modes the player wants to play so it’s not a dice roll what they can or can’t play.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Keep the challenges how they are. That system works just fine the way it is, which is to reward people for completing tasks and going outside of their bubble. But it shouldn’t be the only source of progression.
I think with those 4 things the progression system could be MASSIVELY improved but I want other people to say how they would fix it.
Remove Daily Challenges
Add end of Match Exp in 1 of 2 ways:
1 - flat 125 exp for win, 50 exp for loss
2 - performance. 10 exp per kill, extra 25 for win
Rework weekly challenges to not be so obnoxious, but keep them in. The cosmetic at the end, mixed with the exp is enough reason to keep them in the game.
Finally, add a weapon proficiency list, giving exp as you use weapons throughout the season (reset each season).
Example:
Battle Rifle Kills:
50 kills - 100 exp
250 kills - 200 exp
1000 kills - 500 exp
5000 kills - 1000 exp + weapon skin
And you do this for all weapons (with different values of kills based on weapon tier).
With this model, you get your exp per match, you have some weekly objectives that don’t feel overwhelming, and you have a long, seasonal pursuit to head after, all of which reward you with exp.
I would say that the progression system could be fixed simply by going back to Halo Reach. The game costs a lump sum which gets you all launch content, each game and kill earn you experience and credits, as you level up you unlock armor that you can buy with the credits you earned in game.
It’s quite clearly the monetization that is ruining this game.
That weapon proficiency system is a good idea, I never even thought of that. Maybe 5000 kills is a bit much but I see the Idea there.
I didn’t really give numbers for exactly what I would do to fix it. I kept it pretty general so the feedback could be heard but if you must know I was thinking 50xp for match completion in casual games, in ranked I would reward losses with 25xp and wins with 75xp. and 50xp max for each medal catagory so in total you could on a good day make 150xp per casual game. But with the match of the week bonus system that could potentially be 300-450 xp per game for a little bit. That could give you a lot of extra incentive to log in and play a couple games.
Easy, chop out challenges makes them extra xp, flat out xp after every game, more for medals, make the battlepass a flat out money purchase and put 10,000 cr in the battlepass. make it earnable from wins at about 150 per win, leave crs to be purchasable, double up armour like shoulders and helmet attachments to reduce bp clutter and add double xp and double cr drops in the battlepass
This is courtesy of Ghost_Bloke from a different thread, with a few minor changes very close to what I’d like to see.
Agreed with this. Below suggestions are made based on two principles:
343’s principle of BP not bring full time job to complete.
Weekly challenges to encourage players to have fun and play in the spirit of Halo, team work and cooperation. (rather than running off individually to get specific challenges).
Per match XP based on gameplay achievement.
Kill - 10 XP
Assist - 5 XP
Win - 100 XP
Loss - 50 XP
Flag Cap - 50 XP
Time spent on objective (capping control point, holding oddball) - 1 or 2xp per second?
Group XP category for medals - more and rarer medals more XP
Normal medals - 2xp each
Multikills and Sprees- 5 XP each
(UI doesn’t have to show breakdown, calculations can be in backend)
Doesn’t have to be exact number but XP scaling should align with design principle of not requiring a full time job to complete the BP. Guess it shouldn’t be too quick or too long.
Weekly Challenges:
This depends on how much the above implementation speeds up progression. If above is not enough and needs additional boost then below are parameters on what to tweak:
Increase the number of concurrent weekly challenges
Increase the XP reward
Increase total number of challenges, (reducing XP payout). So that players can
*Doesn’t have to implement all but pick on choose based on projected time to take to complete BP again aligning with design principle of it not being a full time job.
Weekly Challenge Principles:
Challenges to encourage playing the game in the spirit of Halo. Teamwork, objective. Challenges should be designed so that people don’t feel focused on getting challenges, but focused on doing well and contributing to a fun game. Should be general enough (and also aided by per match XP), and encourage players to not check progress after every match, but something consistent where they’ll be confident they’ll passively earn as they play. Like a set and forget type approach weeklies.
Apex Legends has a good weekly challenge model. More challenges unlocking every week, eventually stacking rather than making last weeks challenges unavailable.
Get X amount of Kills, Assists or deal X amount of damage.
Steal flag X amount of times
Spend X amount of time driving someone (more time with someone with flag, eg 1 sec is worth 3 sec, whereas normal teammate is 1:1)
Spend X amount of time in capping control point (not sitting there doing nothing, has to be either capping or restoring control point)
Scoring X number of power seeds
Complete X amount of matches in any PVP.
Complete X amount of matches in bot slayer (smaller payout and less amount to complete, intent for this one is to be a side challenge, break from other ones, 10 matches max)
Daily Challenge Principles:
Daily challenges on other hand could be a bit more specific -get kills with certain weapons, do something fun, kill someone with noob cube, repulse a grenade, rocket or person, grapple a vehicle or player, etc. But not too many specific dailies that hinder that Halo spirit of playing together.
What’s a fair amount of time assigned to progress a battle pass? In my experience for Apex playing 1 hr per day to obtain all daily challenges for 66% of 3 months gets you very very close to completing. So about 60 hrs + additional 10 or 20 to finish off remaining.
The one change I would make to this is that unless the 100,000 exp cap for the season is increased, the per match performance exp needs to be cut by at least 50%.
Pretty close to what I was thinking. Though I would like to cap kill xp so that people don’t have any more reason to hog power weapons and play their hearts out in casual.
If weeklies are to be kept, allow us to progress all of them at the same time.
We’re at the point where i343 kind of contradicted themselves, again.
The battlepass shouldn’t be a chore to do, they said, but weeklies are limited to three at a time which becomes an ordered to do list, where you can’t do one thing before having done another.