How Would Loadouts Work Best in H4?

Loadouts and the way they are utilized in the current incarnation of H4 have unanimously been rejected and criticized by the Halo community, that is fair to say. The truth is, at least for H4, they are not going anywhere as the mechanic is built into the game and lies at the core of the multiplayer experience. So while loadouts exist I think we, as a community, should pool our criticisms and make suggestions as to the betterment of the loadout system in hopes that 343 may take our thoughts and ideas into consideration.

Personally I think loadouts would benefit Halo in a more stripped-down, less impacting state. Namely the removal of weapon choice from altogether. Standardized weapon starts depending on gametype will dictate game flow and work towards making map and weapon control more of a focal point in multiplayer - all while still having the option to see through walls and reload a bit faster than other players. It’s an idea that (in my eyes) marries Halo gameplay of old with the new, seeing as all of the nuances of H4 remain in an environment more akin to traditional Halo.

Any other ideas?

They are fine. No change is necessary in my opinion.

Choosing your weapons is fine. It’s not like Battle Rifles and Automatics weren’t already common on maps to begin with anyways. The problem is the lack of variety and the lack of balance.

Abilities need to be more strategy and teamwork based instead of just being personal 1-ups.

I’d also prefer perks were removed altogether and that the game just gave everyone the same perks. It’s annoying having to choose wheelman over awareness and etc, things that should just be default to begin with.

> Choosing your weapons is fine. It’s not like Battle Rifles and Automatics weren’t already common on maps to begin with anyways.

Yeah that’s a good point. To me, it suggests that fixed weapon spawns become a reality and that in itself is a huge change in terms of pacing and play style.

They won’t work with the current way weapons are balanced ever.

In order to have custom classes work properly the weapons need to have overlapping roles with minute advantages going to each one in different situations which we currently don’t have and you see 2, or 3 weapon used prevalently as a result.

> They won’t work with the current way weapons are balanced ever.
>
>
> In order to have custom classes work properly the weapons need to have overlapping roles with minute advantages going to each one in different situations which we currently don’t have and you see 2, or 3 weapon used prevalently as a result.

I disagree entirely.

When no weapons overlap, it means there is no room for one being inherently better than the other.

For example, imagine these loadout options:
A slow but powerful precision rifle.
A weak but fast semi-auto shotgun.

They simply can’t be compared because they fill entirely different roles.

Now compare the DMR and the BR, which fill pretty much the same niche. Both are good at medium range, but only one is good at long range.

> They won’t work with the current way weapons are balanced ever.
>
>
> In order to have custom classes work properly the weapons need to have overlapping roles with minute advantages going to each one in different situations which we currently don’t have and you see 2, or 3 weapon used prevalently as a result.

Every Halo game has had it’s 2 or 3 prevalent weapons, and people seemed okay with that until H4 - the first to include truly custom loadouts (Reach’s system was an odd shade of grey). I think maybe the fact that the weapon imbalance rears it’s head through loadouts facilitates all of the negativity towards them. Which is why I’ve suggested dropping weapons from the format.

> > They won’t work with the current way weapons are balanced ever.
> >
> >
> > In order to have custom classes work properly the weapons need to have overlapping roles with minute advantages going to each one in different situations which we currently don’t have and you see 2, or 3 weapon used prevalently as a result.
>
> I disagree entirely.
>
> When no weapons overlap, it means there is no room for one being inherently better than the other.
>
> For example, imagine these loadout options:
> A slow but powerful precision rifle.
> A weak but fast semi-auto shotgun.
>
> They simply can’t be compared because they fill entirely different roles.
>
> Now compare the DMR and the BR, which fill pretty much the same niche. Both are good at medium range, but only one is good at long range.

and you can’t balance a game that way due to it becoming rock paper scissors with guns.
You’re going to have an all around gun and most people are going to flock to it.

Exhibit A: The DMR.
Exhibit B: M16 in Battlefield 3.
Exhibit C: Vector in Black Ops 2’

Mind you B&C aren’t even fair because for the most part in those games the weapons are so similar you might as well pick whatever gun you think looks pretty, for what small advantage you gain by choosing it.

> > They won’t work with the current way weapons are balanced ever.
> >
> >
> > In order to have custom classes work properly the weapons need to have overlapping roles with minute advantages going to each one in different situations which we currently don’t have and you see 2, or 3 weapon used prevalently as a result.
>
> Every Halo game has had it’s 2 or 3 prevalent weapons, and people seemed okay with that until H4 - the first to include truly custom loadouts (Reach’s system was an odd shade of grey). I think maybe the fact that the weapon imbalance rears it’s head through loadouts facilitates all of the negativity towards them. Which is why I’ve suggested dropping weapons from the format.

This is the first time in the series that there is actually the ability to choose your weapon. If weapons are imbalanced it renders the illusion of choice pointless.

It was okay in the past because either the good weapons were on the map and thus limited, or everyone else spawned with them.

Rather than removing weapons, they should be rebalanced so players have that choice.

> and you can’t balance a game that way due to it becoming rock paper scissors with guns.

shrug

That’s how class based games work. Halo 4 tries to be both an arena shooter and a class based game, and fails at both.

> Exhibit A: The DMR.

The DMR is a result of your style of balance, not mine.

Personally, I’d much rather keep the weapon choice in. I do not see any real reason to have AR/BR/DMR/Covie variants of Team Slayer. Only thing they showed was how crappy the other weapons are when compared.

I like the way Halo 4 has it set up for Team Slayer: Vote for the map, not for what you want to start with.

> and you can’t balance a game that way due to it becoming rock paper scissors with guns.

> Halo 4 tries to be both an arena shooter and a class based game, and fails at both.
>
> > This.
> >
> >
> > AR Spawns would be great.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > and you can’t balance a game that way due to it becoming rock paper scissors with guns.
> >
> >
> >
> > > shrug
> > >
> > > That’s how class based games work.
> >
> > Depends on the class based shooter. Largely you have 1 or 2 people running around with whatever defined role weapon or shotguns and the rest running around with whatever utility weapon there is.
> >
> >
> >
> > Halo doesn’t have any aforementioned defined role weapons, besides possibly the AR and even then it’s not really a comparison.

Custom loadouts can never be truly balanced. For each map there will always be a “best” loadout for that particular map. Meaning less skilled players will pick weapons the like where as more skilled players will pick tools that give them the best chance of success.

Custom loadouts can work if people of similar skill only matched with eachother. But I am constantly finding players with cqc loadouts on huge maps and BTB loadouts on Haven. Although it is funny to destroy the guy that brought a DMR into my AR range on Abandon… And funny to DMR the guy that took out an AR Ragnarok… It’s really sad to think I got matched against them in the first place.

I’d like to see the return of Game Loadouts ONLY. Though it still offers variety it will encourage less skilled players to learn to play with what tools give them the best chance. Or hell, if you want to make things interesting put some weapons on the damn map and make people spawn with BR+Magnum and have them choose their armor abilities

Personally I think they just need to Halo2/3 it. Starting weapons are BR/Mag or BR/AR, everyone gets Resupply and Ammo. Weapons should be placed on the maps the old style, you want a plasma pistol/Dmr? Go find one. Weapon drops are fine for games like Dom. AA’s are ok and you can just add them into the loadouts according to gametype.Let’s try to make Halo a little more Halo.

> Personally I think they just need to Halo2/3 it. Starting weapons are BR/Mag or BR/AR, everyone gets Resupply and Ammo. Weapons should be placed on the maps the old style, you want a plasma pistol/Dmr? Go find one. Weapon drops are fine for games like Dom. AA’s are ok and you can just add them into the loadouts according to gametype.Let’s try to make Halo a little more Halo.

Why Ammo?

they would be best if they were removed entirely.

I like loadouts. Now I can spawn with a BR and Magnum whenever I want so I would be deeply appreciative if you would refrain from speaking. and don’t take that away from me.

Honestly, I actually don’t mind loadouts and ordnance.

Would I prefer H3’s system?

OMG YES PLEASE, but since that won’t happen, I’m pretty much fine with these as they are now.

Nerf the DMR and Boltshot, make vehicles noticeably healthier, particularly V Plasma Nades and warn me when someone has called in ordnance and I’ll pretty much be good.

Loadouts should not exist, especially when they delve into abilites.