Any speculations on what exactly will be done to fix the rank system?
I think there’s been such little communication from 343 on the issues with ranked, that it’s entirely too difficult to speculate what they will do to improve the experience for everyone.
But my opinion, in terms of what needs to be done:
- Fix the overall issues with the game like desync, disconnects and crashes that cloud the Ranked experience and make it confusing / unsatisfying for everyone.
- Redistribute the playerbase across ranks in such a way that there’s a greater CSR journey, where there are fewer people placed into Diamond 1.
- Decouple performance in Social playlists from affecting Ranked. No one should be questioning if what they are doing inside of Social is affecting who they are being matched with in Ranked.
- Make adjustments to CSR gains and losses so that an entire night of small CSR gains aren’t wiped out by one loss.
- Allow a Forfeit option when a 3v4, 2v4, or 1v4 situation occurs. Not having one wastes everyone’s time.
- CSR losses / penalties for a Quitting teammate only – not for the teammates that have to deal with a less than ideal 3v4 situation.
- Place slightly more CSR gains on objective-based performance (like holding the Oddball) so that players aren’t always going for KDA and ignoring the objective.
- Add more visible ranks to make the CSR Journey more meaningful and satisfying.
- Stronger Anti-Cheat
- In-game Reporting.
I also think 343 should consider limiting what ranks can play together to help with the smurfing and boosting issues plaguing Ranked, but I’m not sure this is the only solution to that problem. I really want people to be able to play with their friends, but I don’t think anyone wants wildly unbalanced matches with enormous CSR disparities either.
The biggest thing is @343 needs to communicate what their plans are, as well as provide clarity and transparency as to how the existing system works. I am hopeful we will hear more soon.
Yes, I agree.
The biggest issue hands down is the mystery of how the ranked system works.
If a player with a P1 account wants to play with a D6 account, then both accounts should be weighted as a D6.
If the P1 joins solo, then they get weighted as a P1.
This will prevent people from making new accounts and manipulating the system to boost….I find these boosting situations is what causes the -33% to rank loss from one game. These losses are so discouraging and frustrating…especially since the player on the P1 account probably has another account that is Onyx….
Some great ideas!
Just not sure what they can do about the CSR gains and losses. They are at the mercy of match-making. If the system can only give you 1 in 4 games vs a team ranked above you then the gains and losses (for expected results) have to be adjusted by the same ratio.
The only solution is to somehow hide the journey in the CSR. Or better yet… just take the number away.
@Darwi , what are your thoughts on reducing CSR loss by a small percentage. Let’s say I have time to play four games total on a given week night. The first three games I win, with a +5 CSR gain each. The 4th game I lose at the cost of -15 CSR. My time is up for the evening, and I’ve broken even.
Is there a way they could dial back that loss to -10 CSR, so at the very least my time doesn’t feel wasted? What change would you like to see if that 4th game cost -20 CSR? I would then be worse off than when I started. This is what I’m thinking when it comes to CSR being too punishing on the losses.
Incidentally, I would actually be okay with fewer CSR gains if the losses weren’t as punishing. I understand there should be ceilings, I just don’t want an entire evening wasted. I don’t think anyone does.
It’s tough. But you simply can’t have a net gain (which is the same as ranking up) if you haven’t actually done anything (beating teams ranked below you). Even small amounts per day would add up over weeks and months.
We’ve seen how committed people get to grinding a number!
I think the honest thing would be to add nothing.
The game needs have full disclosure. Tell the player that they won but that it was against a lower ranked team and you get no ranking for it. If that’s five games in a row (that’s all that matchmaking could find at the time) then we just have to deal with it.
But people would probably get more frustrated with getting nothing than borrowing something that has to be taken back.
The only other option is to put a handicap on the games. If team A is higher ranked then they need to win by 10 points (for example) to rank up. But if team B wins, or loses by less than 10 points, they are the ones who rank up. This way every game can have meaningful rank exchanges.
The projected scores could be worked out from data on previous games.
You could even give the lower ranked opponent the points as a head start so that the race to 50 has the same meaning.
The other advantage to such a system is that you could keep 4v3 games alive. The projected score to rank up could be further adjusted to take into account the missing player. In the example above the score could be increased to having to win by 15 points in a 4v3.
My big issue is that a lower ranked team does not = lower skilled team.
I was watching a Onyx 2k streamer the other day playing on his D1 account…it’s crazy to get super punished for loosing against a D1 like that.
Sometimes I think this game would have some better if it required Xbox live…less people would pay to make Smurf accounts.
I agree, the ranks need to reflect the skill.
All new accounts should require a certain amount of games or time before they can play ranked.
And squads should have a limit on skill ranges.
Wouldn’t fix everything… but it’s a start.
If matchmaking is this awful after three months, the game’s toast. I’m currently 5-1 W/L in a session with a balanced Onyx/Diamond team, and playing against generally similar Onyx/Diamond teams and am down 3 CSR on the night (because we lost to a silver smurf who acknowledged they are 1600 in a chat afterwards).
It’s simply not fun.
You may look similar on paper.
But their MMR may be a different story.
And you would be ranked higher as a squad playing together.
So some of those wins may not be as rankable as they seem.
Smurfs are a problem. But not isolated to Infinite.
This perfectly sums up why the visible rank is meaningless.
If the system’s MMR is so far off CSR that seemingly even matches are consistently far enough apart to mean one loss is weighted more than 5 wins, then the ranking system is broken. Not sure what else to say–it’s not capable of producing matches it considers even during weeknight prime playtime on east coast.
Almost everyone’s teaming up in Onyx level in open queue, I highly doubt that’s a significant detriment.
As an former H5 ranked player who was Onyx there too, even a year into the game the issues with ranked matchmaking were not nearly this acute.
I appreciate what you do by helping people understand how TrueSkill2 works. But after sessions like this, I’m not sure what the point of ranking is if I can win 85% of my games and drop rank–and I’m not even near the top of the distribution. Just makes me want to stop playing.
Smurfs can even mess up the you’re progress when they play great on your team.
I had a D1 Smurf on my team outperform me (D4) and I got zero xp buff for the win…
@Darwi just to circle back on punishing CSR losses, I can give you a literal example from playing last night. I had about an hour or so to play, which ended up being 3x matches total.
I’m D3 in Solo/Duos and I like to warm up there…
- Game 1: CTF / Baazar. I went 36k and 14d, match tied. 3rd Place. 0 CSR gained, stayed D3. Understandable, it was a tie. Nonetheless I did well and switched over to Open Crossplay where I’m D6.
Moved over to Open Crossplay…
Game 2: Strongholds on Live Fire. Went 21k and 17d. Placed 1st. +5 CSR gain, putting me at 1456 D6. Not much for placing 1st, but okay. It was a close match, but still feeling confident…
Game 3: Oddball on Live Fire. Went 19k and 19d and was 1st on my team before the game disconnected in the 3rd round. Lost a whopping -25 CSR, and end the night far worse than I started.
I went from D6 1456 down to D5 1441 in a single match, having only played 3x matches total that night, the first of which was completely fruitless. It’ll take several games to get it back, and now my time is up.
I almost uninstalled the game I was so angry.
I know the DC isn’t my fault, but -25 CSR? How is that even remotely fair? Why couldn’t this be curbed by a percentage so it’s not such a brutal amount lost?
It sucks that the DC wasn’t your fault… but there has to some penalty to penalise quitters.
And 1456 to 1441 is only 15 points. I assume you mean 1431?
I had to quit a game last week (to my absolute shame) and lost half a bar… so pretty much the 25 points you describe.
I agree that anecdotally a lot of people appear to be having problems with the game DC’ing them… so you could argue that they should temper the penalty until their own house is in better order.
But really. You played two games in that playlist. Won one and “quit” from one. Your run of CSR is probably “fair” in that context.
Very, very bad math on my part. Thank you for pointing that out haha. Nonetheless, a steep penalty in my opinion. The game cannot tell the difference between a DC and a quit?
I think the issue is that match-making has to work 24 hours a day.
The matches during prime time are going to be much better quality.
But at other times - not so much (to the point where I hear that people who are milking CSR have preferred times of the day to play).
So, overall, the balance is towards the lower opponents. Which is why they have fixed gains and losses for Onyx players (in an ideal world / tournament system you don’t need to limit these).
Maybe the problem is that they have the wrong plus and minuses in place. What worked for H5’s population isn’t working for Infinite’s. They just haven’t had the experience and data to tweak it yet.
Fingers crossed for the upcoming reset.
I didn’t even know this was a thing. I’m getting on around 10pm PST pretty regularly and have seen some bizarre stuff. What time would be best for someone on PST to aim for to try and break out of D5/D6?