It really isn’t that difficult 343. All we ask for is at LEAST one playlist where you remove all the gimmicks that take away from the essence of skill based Halo.
> 2533274924814769;1:
> It really isn’t that difficult 343. All we ask for is at LEAST one playlist where you remove all the gimmicks that take away from the essence of skill based Halo.
We also need the necessary custom game options to remove Sprint, Spartan Abilities, adjust health, shield, and movement settings, and damage values for weapons and grenades.
How do you know yet you will not get these options with Halo 5? You don’t so perhaps instead of whining you can propose your ideas to 343i keep this forum alive post on twitter etc.
Not attacking you by the way this is a sensible post, my reply is aimed and the majority of the so called competitive crowd. Personally I feel the new features can add to the skill gap and make the game more competitive but there will only be one way to find that out for sure and that is to wait and actually play the game.
> 2533274924814769;1:
> It really isn’t that difficult 343. All we ask for is at LEAST one playlist where you remove all the gimmicks that take away from the essence of skill based Halo.
Why is it that it never seems to be an option for the “skilled” players to adapt to the new abilities, learn to use them properly, and keep the skill gap pretty much intact? There’s complaints of bad players using abilities to get away or to catch others off-guard, but everyone has the same abilities. Instead of demanding these abilities be removed, why not learn how to capitalize on them and prove why you guys are so elite?
> 2533274811959854;4:
> > 2533274924814769;1:
> > It really isn’t that difficult 343. All we ask for is at LEAST one playlist where you remove all the gimmicks that take away from the essence of skill based Halo.
>
>
>
> Why is it that it never seems to be an option for the “skilled” players to adapt to the new abilities, learn to use them properly, and keep the skill gap pretty much intact? There’s complaints of bad players using abilities to get away or to catch others off-guard, but everyone has the same abilities. Instead of demanding these abilities be removed, why not learn how to capitalize on them and prove why you guys are so elite?
It’s not just about balance; it’s about creating a skillgap.
If you gave everyone a rocket launcher at spawn the game would be balanced. Does that alone make the game competitive? No.
The point of competitive gametypes is to get rid of extraneous stuff that slows down gameplay and/or prevents a skill gap from forming.
Take clamber for instance. Ordinarily people who time their jumps well would make it onto the ledge. Now, people who don’t time their jumps can miss and still hit a button to get on anyways. The gap between noobs and pros is decreased because now bad players get a handicap to help them with their jumps.
And that’s just one Spartan Ability.
> 2533274875705074;5:
> > 2533274811959854;4:
> > > 2533274924814769;1:
> > > It really isn’t that difficult 343. All we ask for is at LEAST one playlist where you remove all the gimmicks that take away from the essence of skill based Halo.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Why is it that it never seems to be an option for the “skilled” players to adapt to the new abilities, learn to use them properly, and keep the skill gap pretty much intact? There’s complaints of bad players using abilities to get away or to catch others off-guard, but everyone has the same abilities. Instead of demanding these abilities be removed, why not learn how to capitalize on them and prove why you guys are so elite?
>
>
> It’s not just about balance; it’s about creating a skillgap.
>
> If you gave everyone a rocket launcher at spawn the game would be balanced. Does that alone make the game competitive? No.
>
> The point of competitive gametypes is to get rid of extraneous stuff that slows down gameplay and/or prevents a skill gap from forming.
>
> Take clamber for instance. Ordinarily people who time their jumps well would make it onto the ledge. Now, people who don’t time their jumps can miss and still hit a button to get on anyways. The gap between noobs and pros is decreased because now bad players get a handicap to help them with their jumps.
>
> And that’s just one Spartan Ability.
Clamber doesn’t appear to be instant in the way sticking the jump would be; the noob who misses and has to use Clamber looks like he’ll be vulnerable for a split second if you’re quick on the trigger. Looks to me like the difference here is that a skilled player knows how to take advantage of that misstep and another noob will miss it entirely.
Skill gap is still there and will always be there so long as everyone has the same tools; balance creates a skill gap because skills is what determines the game. If players below a certain threshold/rank all spawned with overshields or something as a way to “keep up” with their betters, that’s not balance and that destroys the skill gap. Armor abilities and perks destroyed skill gap, yes, because everyone had different choices, but everyone starts with the same abilities in H5. Yes, that’s balance and that’s also why it becomes necessary to sharpen your skills.
Instead of everyone who thinks they’re good wasting time screaming for abilities to be removed when we all know it’s not going to happen, they should be thinking of how to use these new abilities to improve their own play.
Clamber and slide are the only noob like abilities. The rest all have trade offs if you fail, especially ground pound.
> 2535443515466656;7:
> Clamber and slide are the only noob like abilities. The rest all have trade offs if you fail, especially ground pound.
So can clamber and slide have trade off for using them and can require skill to perform also but that all comes down to map design mostly.
> 2533274811959854;6:
> Clamber doesn’t appear to be instant in the way sticking the jump would be; the noob who misses and has to use Clamber looks like he’ll be vulnerable for a split second if you’re quick on the trigger. Looks to me like the difference here is that a skilled player knows how to take advantage of that misstep and another noob will miss it entirely.
>
> Skill gap is still there and will always be there so long as everyone has the same tools; balance creates a skill gap because skills is what determines the game. If players below a certain threshold/rank all spawned with overshields or something as a way to “keep up” with their betters, that’s not balance and that destroys the skill gap. Armor abilities and perks destroyed skill gap, yes, because everyone had different choices, but everyone starts with the same abilities in H5. Yes, that’s balance and that’s also why it becomes necessary to sharpen your skills.
>
> Instead of everyone who thinks they’re good wasting time screaming for abilities to be removed when we all know it’s not going to happen, they should be thinking of how to use these new abilities to improve their own play.
You are still associating skillgap with balance. You seem to be under the impression that just because everyone has Spartan Abilities that that makes it competitive. Again, let me reiterate: you can give everyone a rocket launcher at spawn and it would be balanced. Balance alone does not create a skill gap.
Clamber has no skill gap. It is a handicap. Good players will never use clamber, because they will consistently be making “good” jumps that don’t require them to hit the button. Bad players, on the other hand, will be using clamber constantly as they will mistime their jumps and keep missing the platform that they are trying to jump onto by a few inches.
Without clamber, you get forced back onto the ground and have to take an alternate route. This costs you time because you have to make the jump again or take an alternate route, and it hurts your team because for a few seconds you will be in a worse spot (read: lower ground) than what is ideal. This is what helps to create a skill gap.
What if there was a power weapon on that platform? A pro can make the jump no problem, but now with the addition of clamber a newb who misses the jump in the critical few seconds to scramble for the weapon can get on anyways. Making the game easier for bad players does not create a skill gap.
> 2533274875705074;9:
> > 2533274811959854;6:
> > Clamber doesn’t appear to be instant in the way sticking the jump would be; the noob who misses and has to use Clamber looks like he’ll be vulnerable for a split second if you’re quick on the trigger. Looks to me like the difference here is that a skilled player knows how to take advantage of that misstep and another noob will miss it entirely.
> >
> > Skill gap is still there and will always be there so long as everyone has the same tools; balance creates a skill gap because skills is what determines the game. If players below a certain threshold/rank all spawned with overshields or something as a way to “keep up” with their betters, that’s not balance and that destroys the skill gap. Armor abilities and perks destroyed skill gap, yes, because everyone had different choices, but everyone starts with the same abilities in H5. Yes, that’s balance and that’s also why it becomes necessary to sharpen your skills.
> >
> > Instead of everyone who thinks they’re good wasting time screaming for abilities to be removed when we all know it’s not going to happen, they should be thinking of how to use these new abilities to improve their own play.
>
>
> You are still associating skillgap with balance. You seem to be under the impression that just because everyone has Spartan Abilities that that makes it competitive. Again, let me reiterate: you can give everyone a rocket launcher at spawn and it would be balanced. Balance alone does not create a skill gap.
> Clamber has no skill gap. It is a handicap. Good players will never use clamber, because they will consistently be making “good” jumps that don’t require them to hit the button. Bad players, on the other hand, will be using clamber constantly as they will mistime their jumps and keep missing the platform that they are trying to jump onto by a few inches.
>
> Without clamber, you get forced back onto the ground and have to take an alternate route. This costs you time because you have to make the jump again or take an alternate route, and it hurts your team because for a few seconds you will be in a worse spot (read: lower ground) than what is ideal. This is what helps to create a skill gap.
>
> What if there was a power weapon on that platform? A pro can make the jump no problem, but now with the addition of clamber a newb who misses the jump in the critical few seconds to scramble for the weapon can get on anyways. Making the game easier for bad players does not create a skill gap.
Balance necessitates skill; how else are you going to differentiate yourself between the other players? Yes, starting everyone with rocket launchers can create a skill gap because some people will learn how to use them properly, can almost snipe with them from across the map, while others will simply blow themselves up. Same tools for everyone and the only difference comes down to the skill of the operator.
Clamber will cost you time, if only a second, and if you’re truly skilled, you will capitalize on that little misstep and either blow them away or beat them to the objective. It’s not like they have access to a special ability you don’t.
A lot of people are really good and skilled at the old Halo 2 and 3 style of gameplay, I get it. What I also get is that they don’t want to be forced to learn anything new in order to maintain the distance between themselves and the lesser players.
Halo Reach and H4, for as fun as they were, destroyed the skill gap and I will not argue that; starts weren’t equal, everyone had different tools, some of which were superior to others. Weapon drops destroy skill gap because it allows good players to get free access to power weapons like fuel rods delivered right to their feet while the not-so-good players get annihilated.
None of this applies to balanced starts for everyone. Balance will force you to be better than the other people or you lose. That’s called skill. Imbalance means you don’t have to be better than the other guy because you have better toys than he does and the odds are in your favor. That’s not skill.
So far, the only thing I can see with H5 that might cause an imbalance and ruin the skill gap between players will be map design if one team starts marginally closer to an objective than the other, or one base has more terrain obstacles to overcome than the other.
> 2533274875705074;5:
> It’s not just about balance; it’s about creating a skillgap.
>
> If you gave everyone a rocket launcher at spawn the game would be balanced. Does that alone make the game competitive? No.
>
> The point of competitive gametypes is to get rid of extraneous stuff that slows down gameplay and/or prevents a skill gap from forming.
>
> Take clamber for instance. Ordinarily people who time their jumps well would make it onto the ledge. Now, people who don’t time their jumps can miss and still hit a button to get on anyways. The gap between noobs and pros is decreased because now bad players get a handicap to help them with their jumps.
>
> And that’s just one Spartan Ability.
I love how someone who’s only played a hand full of games in Halo 3, a highest rank of Sargent grade 3, with a painfully average k/d, is talking about skill. Not to mention only a 1.3 k/d in Reach. Look, you should be happy 343 are catering to you, if you’re correct.
Remove sprint and make base speed higher, slim down maps like Bigship, change the sights and sounds to feel more like Halo and not a generic sci-fi shooter. Get rid of unnecessary/redundant mechanics as per feedback from the beta.
Done. It’s honestly that simple. Not everybody will be happy, but the majority probably will.
> 2533274811959854;10:
> > 2533274875705074;9:
> > > 2533274811959854;6:
> > > Clamber doesn’t appear to be instant in the way sticking the jump would be; the noob who misses and has to use Clamber looks like he’ll be vulnerable for a split second if you’re quick on the trigger. Looks to me like the difference here is that a skilled player knows how to take advantage of that misstep and another noob will miss it entirely.
> > >
> > > Skill gap is still there and will always be there so long as everyone has the same tools; balance creates a skill gap because skills is what determines the game. If players below a certain threshold/rank all spawned with overshields or something as a way to “keep up” with their betters, that’s not balance and that destroys the skill gap. Armor abilities and perks destroyed skill gap, yes, because everyone had different choices, but everyone starts with the same abilities in H5. Yes, that’s balance and that’s also why it becomes necessary to sharpen your skills.
> > >
> > > Instead of everyone who thinks they’re good wasting time screaming for abilities to be removed when we all know it’s not going to happen, they should be thinking of how to use these new abilities to improve their own play.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You are still associating skillgap with balance. You seem to be under the impression that just because everyone has Spartan Abilities that that makes it competitive. Again, let me reiterate: you can give everyone a rocket launcher at spawn and it would be balanced. Balance alone does not create a skill gap.
> > Clamber has no skill gap. It is a handicap. Good players will never use clamber, because they will consistently be making “good” jumps that don’t require them to hit the button. Bad players, on the other hand, will be using clamber constantly as they will mistime their jumps and keep missing the platform that they are trying to jump onto by a few inches.
> >
> > Without clamber, you get forced back onto the ground and have to take an alternate route. This costs you time because you have to make the jump again or take an alternate route, and it hurts your team because for a few seconds you will be in a worse spot (read: lower ground) than what is ideal. This is what helps to create a skill gap.
> >
> > What if there was a power weapon on that platform? A pro can make the jump no problem, but now with the addition of clamber a newb who misses the jump in the critical few seconds to scramble for the weapon can get on anyways. Making the game easier for bad players does not create a skill gap.
>
>
>
>
> Balance necessitates skill; how else are you going to differentiate yourself between the other players? Yes, starting everyone with rocket launchers can create a skill gap because some people will learn how to use them properly, can almost snipe with them from across the map, while others will simply blow themselves up. Same tools for everyone and the only difference comes down to the skill of the operator.
>
> Clamber will cost you time, if only a second, and if you’re truly skilled, you will capitalize on that little misstep and either blow them away or beat them to the objective. It’s not like they have access to a special ability you don’t.
>
> A lot of people are really good and skilled at the old Halo 2 and 3 style of gameplay, I get it. What I also get is that they don’t want to be forced to learn anything new in order to maintain the distance between themselves and the lesser players.
>
> Halo Reach and H4, for as fun as they were, destroyed the skill gap and I will not argue that; starts weren’t equal, everyone had different tools, some of which were superior to others. Weapon drops destroy skill gap because it allows good players to get free access to power weapons like fuel rods delivered right to their feet while the not-so-good players get annihilated.
>
> None of this applies to balanced starts for everyone. Balance will force you to be better than the other people or you lose. That’s called skill. Imbalance means you don’t have to be better than the other guy because you have better toys than he does and the odds are in your favor. That’s not skill.
>
> So far, the only thing I can see with H5 that might cause an imbalance and ruin the skill gap between players will be map design if one team starts marginally closer to an objective than the other, or one base has more terrain obstacles to overcome than the other.
Balance does not create skill. Skill is a variable that exists outside of balance. What balance does is create an even playing field. That’s it. The most that you could argue is that balance enhances the skill gap, but you can’t jump to a conclusion and go “oh all skill derives from balance” or “balance necessitates skill.”
For example, in Halo 4 someone with a K/D of 2.00 in Team Slayer is obviously more skilled than someone with a K/D of 1.00. Are you going to try to argue that Halo 4, since it is imbalanced, takes no skill? Are you going to try to argue that Halo Reach, due to imbalance, takes no skill? That Halo 3, due to BR spread and randomness, takes no skill?
NO. Each game obviously still takes a certain degree of skill. That is not in question. What is in question is what gameplay elements can add or detract to the skill gap. And clamber detracts.
You say “Clamber will cost you time, if only a second, and if you’re truly skilled, you will capitalize on that little misstep and either blow them away or beat them to the objective. It’s not like they have access to a special ability you don’t.”
How thick are you? Do you not understand that without the addition of clamber, skilled players will also kill those people who miss their jumps? In fact, without Clamber, they will be punished even more?
The problem with Clamber is that it gives bad players the opportunity to make jumps that they otherwise would have not. It makes the game easier for bad players, which is why I say that it does not add to the skill gap.
Just like giving everyone rockets on spawn makes the game 10x easier for bad players in medium range combat, in close range combat, and against vehicles.
Giving everyone rockets does not add to the skill gap. Do players still need skill to use rockets? Of course!
But to kill with an assault rifle is much harder, and to 4shot someone with a BR in close range takes even more skill.
This is why competitive players emphasize precision weapons for starting weapons and remove other extraneous weapons like plasma rifles, assault rifles, etc that don’t require as much aim or can dish out insane amounts of damage in 1 to 2 hits like the rocket can. Rockets are still kept in competitive gametypes as pickups, to reward good teams with weapons that take less time to kill in exchange for them controlling the map.
> 2535421313077380;11:
> > 2533274875705074;5:
> > It’s not just about balance; it’s about creating a skillgap.
> >
> > If you gave everyone a rocket launcher at spawn the game would be balanced. Does that alone make the game competitive? No.
> >
> > The point of competitive gametypes is to get rid of extraneous stuff that slows down gameplay and/or prevents a skill gap from forming.
> >
> > Take clamber for instance. Ordinarily people who time their jumps well would make it onto the ledge. Now, people who don’t time their jumps can miss and still hit a button to get on anyways. The gap between noobs and pros is decreased because now bad players get a handicap to help them with their jumps.
> >
> > And that’s just one Spartan Ability.
>
>
>
>
> I love how someone who’s only played a hand full of games in Halo 3, a highest rank of Sargent grade 3, with a painfully average k/d, is talking about skill. Not to mention only a 1.3 k/d in Reach. Look, you should be happy 343 are catering to you, if you’re correct.
I love how an account that was probably made 10 days ago with no service record of his K/D tries to pull the K/D card. How about you link up your gamertag and show your own K/D bud?
Also I never claimed to be an exceptional player. You don’t have to play for an MLG team to like what they do.
Edit: Oh and K/D is useless unless you specify by playlist. I used to know people who were good enough to get into Arena Onyx and they had K/Ds of 1.00 in that playlist. You going to try to tell me that they were bad?
This is nothing more than an ad hominem, and a poor one at that as you can’t even prove that you’re better than me.
> 2533274875705074;14:
> > 2535421313077380;11:
> > > 2533274875705074;5:
> > > It’s not just about balance; it’s about creating a skillgap.
> > >
> > > If you gave everyone a rocket launcher at spawn the game would be balanced. Does that alone make the game competitive? No.
> > >
> > > The point of competitive gametypes is to get rid of extraneous stuff that slows down gameplay and/or prevents a skill gap from forming.
> > >
> > > Take clamber for instance. Ordinarily people who time their jumps well would make it onto the ledge. Now, people who don’t time their jumps can miss and still hit a button to get on anyways. The gap between noobs and pros is decreased because now bad players get a handicap to help them with their jumps.
> > >
> > > And that’s just one Spartan Ability.
> >
> >
> >
> > I love how someone who’s only played a hand full of games in Halo 3, a highest rank of Sargent grade 3, with a painfully average k/d, is talking about skill. Not to mention only a 1.3 k/d in Reach. Look, you should be happy 343 are catering to you, if you’re correct.
>
>
> I love how an account that was probably made 10 days ago with no service record of his K/D tries to pull the K/D card. How about you link up your gamertag and show your own K/D bud?
>
> Not to mention that I’m better than the person that I’m replying to in this thread and I never brought up K/D to him.
Yet you saw fit to go “how thick are you” for disagreeing with you and now you mention that you’re better than me despite I never brought it up to begin with. Shall I inflate your ego a bit? Yes, I’m absolutely terrible and I admit it; if the new Waypoint profile showed entire post histories instead of just the last post, you could see that I have never denied this. Congrats on being better at a video game than me.
Things like clamber can only destroy the skill gap in campaign because now bad players can access secrets and areas that would have been otherwise inaccessible to them. They can unlock achievements and locked armor previously reserved for the “good” players. *It does not ruin multiplayer.*Is someone with a 2.0 K/D in H4 better than the guy with a 1.0 K/D? Sure, to an extent, but we don’t know what abilities, perks, and loadouts he used to get there because again, these were not all equal. H5 is looking to make everyone equal and if all things are equal, skill becomes the sole determining factor in who wins and who loses; the good players will kick -Yoink- and the bad players will get their -Yoink- kicked. I will likely get stomped all to hell in H5 worse than I ever did in H4 and I’m okay with this.
It’s interesting that a lot of players like me seem to look at the beta footage and think “crap, I’m in trouble now” while the players that like to tout themselves as being good and skilled are swearing “skill gap is gone, bad players have it too easy!”
Bad players can barely make hard jumps now, but they’re still very vulnerable (looks like they’d be a prime target for assassination, really). So you have slightly less time to murder them now; that’s not game-breaking and it doesn’t destroy the skill gap. If anything, it should encourage people to be faster on the trigger and better with their accuracy.
> 2533274811959854;15:
> Yet you saw fit to go “how thick are you” for disagreeing with you and now you mention that you’re better than me despite I never brought it up to begin with. Shall I inflate your ego a bit? Yes, I’m absolutely terrible and I admit it; if the new Waypoint profile showed entire post histories instead of just the last post, you could see that I have never denied this. Congrats on being better at a video game than me.
>
> Things like clamber can only destroy the skill gap in campaign because now bad players can access secrets and areas that would have been otherwise inaccessible to them. They can unlock achievements and locked armor previously reserved for the “good” players. *It does not ruin multiplayer.*Is someone with a 2.0 K/D in H4 better than the guy with a 1.0 K/D? Sure, to an extent, but we don’t know what abilities, perks, and loadouts he used to get there because again, these were not all equal. H5 is looking to make everyone equal and if all things are equal, skill becomes the sole determining factor in who wins and who loses; the good players will kick -Yoink- and the bad players will get their -Yoink- kicked. I will likely get stomped all to hell in H5 worse than I ever did in H4 and I’m okay with this.
>
> It’s interesting that a lot of players like me seem to look at the beta footage and think “crap, I’m in trouble now” while the players that like to tout themselves as being good and skilled are swearing “skill gap is gone, bad players have it too easy!”
>
> Bad players can barely make hard jumps now, but they’re still very vulnerable (looks like they’d be a prime target for assassination, really). So you have slightly less time to murder them now; that’s not game-breaking and it doesn’t destroy the skill gap. If anything, it should encourage people to be faster on the trigger and better with their accuracy.
I never wanted to bring it up in the first place, the only reason I mentioned you (indirectly) in that reply was because I wanted to see whether it was an alternate troll account that you were running on the waypoint forums. Paranoid, yes, but after my experiences on Bungie.net once can never be too sure of these things. Now that I have the information I wanted I’ll edit my post to keep you out of it.
The “thick” comment was just me being frustrated that you kept insinuating that balance, or lack thereof, automatically resulted in skill being there or gone. Imbalanced games still have a skill gap, but it is distorted due to poor gameplay mechanics. Likewise, balanced games still have skill gaps, but certain mechanics can lengthen (spawning with BRs instead of ARs) , shorten (Spawning with Armor Lock), or act neutrally (ADS vs scope) for that gap.
From a competitive perspective not only does it have to be balanced, you have to weigh what gameplay mechanics would show a natural range of skill and which gameplay mechanics wouldn’t affect that and thus should be discarded for being extraneous, or, worse, mechanics that actively aid lower-skilled players at the end of the range.
Skill doesn’t really matter in campaign. I mean, if there are secrets you can find through the new mechanic I’m all on board with that. It’s multiplayer I’m concerned about; specifically, competitive multiplayer. As long as there are custom games options and one true competitive playlist, as the OP stated, I’d be fine with it if Spartan Abilities are in every other playlist.
In a game like Halo where map control is paramount, the absence of one player on higher ground can make a huge difference, doubly so if that platform happens to contain a power weapon spawn. Skilled players will continue to succeed but there’s no denying the nature of clamber’s mechanic: it makes it easier to time jumps, and that’s not something that benefits the players at the higher end of the skill bracket.
> 2533274875705074;14:
> > 2535421313077380;11:
> > > 2533274875705074;5:
> > > It’s not just about balance; it’s about creating a skillgap.
> > >
> > > If you gave everyone a rocket launcher at spawn the game would be balanced. Does that alone make the game competitive? No.
> > >
> > > The point of competitive gametypes is to get rid of extraneous stuff that slows down gameplay and/or prevents a skill gap from forming.
> > >
> > > Take clamber for instance. Ordinarily people who time their jumps well would make it onto the ledge. Now, people who don’t time their jumps can miss and still hit a button to get on anyways. The gap between noobs and pros is decreased because now bad players get a handicap to help them with their jumps.
> > >
> > > And that’s just one Spartan Ability.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I love how someone who’s only played a hand full of games in Halo 3, a highest rank of Sargent grade 3, with a painfully average k/d, is talking about skill. Not to mention only a 1.3 k/d in Reach. Look, you should be happy 343 are catering to you, if you’re correct.
>
>
> I love how an account that was probably made 10 days ago with no service record of his K/D tries to pull the K/D card. How about you link up your gamertag and show your own K/D bud?
>
> Not to mention that I’m better than the person that I’m replying to in this thread and I never brought up K/D to him.
>
> Also I never claimed to be an exceptional player. You don’t have to play for an MLG team to like what they do.
>
> Edit: Oh and K/D is useless unless you specify by playlist. I used to know people who were good enough to get into Arena Onyx and they had K/Ds of 1.00 in that playlist. You going to try to tell me that they were bad?
>
> This is nothing more than an ad hominem, and a poor one at that as you can’t even prove that you’re better than me.
- This account was made like 6 months ago, I haven’t linked my xbox live to this account yet. My k/d in Reach is close to a 2 for most playlists, and only got better over time.
- You didn’t claim to be an exceptional player, but you talk like skill as if it’s important or if you’re getting the short hand of the deal because of a lower skill gap. I was just pointing out the self contradiction.
- I looked at a few of the k/d’s at the time I’m pretty sure, the general tread was your k/d was pretty average.
- You don’t know what an ad hominem is, maybe you should look it up. It’s only an ad hominem if my intent was to weaken your argument by attacking you. Not at all. The point in showing your k/d is that it demonstrates you’re not an incredibly skillful player, so you’re really just admitting they’re catering to you. You talk about how it’s being ‘easy on the less skillful players’, lol. If they’re catering to you, what’s the problem? Shouldn’t you love clamber then?
> 2535421313077380;17:
> > 2533274875705074;14:
> > > 2535421313077380;11:
> > > > 2533274875705074;5:
> > > > It’s not just about balance; it’s about creating a skillgap.
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> > > > If you gave everyone a rocket launcher at spawn the game would be balanced. Does that alone make the game competitive? No.
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> > > > The point of competitive gametypes is to get rid of extraneous stuff that slows down gameplay and/or prevents a skill gap from forming.
> > > >
> > > > Take clamber for instance. Ordinarily people who time their jumps well would make it onto the ledge. Now, people who don’t time their jumps can miss and still hit a button to get on anyways. The gap between noobs and pros is decreased because now bad players get a handicap to help them with their jumps.
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> > > > And that’s just one Spartan Ability.
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> > > I love how someone who’s only played a hand full of games in Halo 3, a highest rank of Sargent grade 3, with a painfully average k/d, is talking about skill. Not to mention only a 1.3 k/d in Reach. Look, you should be happy 343 are catering to you, if you’re correct.
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> > I love how an account that was probably made 10 days ago with no service record of his K/D tries to pull the K/D card. How about you link up your gamertag and show your own K/D bud?
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> > Also I never claimed to be an exceptional player. You don’t have to play for an MLG team to like what they do.
> >
> > Edit: Oh and K/D is useless unless you specify by playlist. I used to know people who were good enough to get into Arena Onyx and they had K/Ds of 1.00 in that playlist. You going to try to tell me that they were bad?
> >
> > This is nothing more than an ad hominem, and a poor one at that as you can’t even prove that you’re better than me.
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> - This account was made like 6 months ago, I haven’t linked my xbox live to this account yet. My k/d in Reach is close to a 2 for most playlists, and only got better over time.
> - You didn’t claim to be an exceptional player, but you talk like skill as if it’s important or if you’re getting the short hand of the deal because of a lower skill gap. I was just pointing out the self contradiction.
> - I looked at a few of the k/d’s at the time I’m pretty sure, the general tread was your k/d was pretty average.
> - You don’t know what an ad hominem is, maybe you should look it up. It’s only an ad hominem if my intent was to weaken your argument by attacking you. Not at all. The point in showing your k/d is that it demonstrates you’re not an incredibly skillful player, so you’re really just admitting they’re catering to you. You talk about how it’s being ‘easy on the less skillful players’, lol. If they’re catering to you, what’s the problem? Shouldn’t you love clamber then?
I bolded the part you may have missed. No one bothers to defend competitive players on these forums. Competitive players don’t even defend themselves because they’re sick of dealing with Waypoint and sick of arguing the same points over again.
My MLG K/D in Reach was 0.8 or somewhere around that. That sucks. I’m not afraid to admit that. I get stomped on hard on that playlist, whereas if I load up Big Team Battle I can easily go to 1.5, 1.6, 1.7 per game. Your stats for vanilla Reach are good, but I’m going to take a guess that your stats for the MLG Reach playlist should be lower than every other Reach playlist since that was the most competitive playlist in the game. Also depends on your playing time, there’s a difference between smashing up people who got Reach during Games for Gold and people who were actually playing when Reach first came out.
I called your post an ad hominem because you seemed to imply that just because I am average or I suck that there’s no place for me to talk about competitive gameplay. By saying words to the effect that my argument is flawed because of my stats, it does indeed count as an ad hominem. I knew someone (Darkside Eric) on the bungie forums who was an honest to god actual video game designer with a K/D around mine, and he could get across points about imbalances concerning armour abiltiies just as well as someone like Zomechin could. And I think Zome was an Arena Onyx player.
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> The “thick” comment was just me being frustrated that you kept insinuating that balance, or lack thereof, automatically resulted in skill being there or gone. Imbalanced games still have a skill gap, but it is distorted due to poor gameplay mechanics. Likewise, balanced games still have skill gaps, but certain mechanics can lengthen (spawning with BRs instead of ARs) , shorten (Spawning with Armor Lock), or act neutrally (ADS vs scope) for that gap.
And I will continue to hold that position because when all things are equal, only skill will determine who wins and loses.
All things were equal in H2 and H3, which is what people cling to. All things will be equal in H5; the only real difference between H2 and H3 is the addition of a few new mechanics that everyone has access to. Skill, at least to the extent people like to talk about, hasn’t existed since H3 because the franchise moved away from putting everyone on equal footing; good players finally have a chance to really distinguish themselves once again but virtually none of them are happy about it and it all comes down to petty things like the addition of new mechanics.
I’ll happily support a playlist with all the new features disables for the purists, just like I’d support a separate playlist that included the return of armor abilities for the crowd that loved them. Choice and options are great and letting people choose which multiplayer suits them best is awesome. I don’t think it’ll happen, but I can support the idea.
Might the skill gap have decreased somewhat? Possibly, but if it has, I’m not convinced it has done so to a game-breaking degree. And really, shouldn’t competitive players embrace this because it would, in theory, make for closer and more challenging games? Fight for control of that high outcropping and the power weapon it has on it; prove your team is better and more deserving of it. That seems a hell of a lot more competitive to me than “neener neener neener, we have the hill and there’s nothing you can do about it.”
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> It really isn’t that difficult 343. All we ask for is at LEAST one playlist where you remove all the gimmicks that take away from the essence of skill based Halo.
So what you’re asking for, in other words, is Halo 3 reskinned, possibly with new weapons and maps, on the Xbox One?
That’s pretty much what I got from this.