How to make the Prometheans fun to fight

The Prometheans have been a source of long debate, but many can agree that they aren’t the most fun to fight. While mostly improved from halo 4, they can still be vastly improved. So I, Arc Trooper, am up to the challenge of trying to make them fun to fight. I’m happy with any suggestions. I know this is long, so I’ve bolded the discussion points if any of you want to just check a few out. As this is a feedback thread and I want 343 to see this, I’m notifying Ske7ch :slight_smile:

The little variety of enemies: There are too few of them and the ones we have aren’t that fun. In halo 4, we had the Knight, the Crawler, the Watcher, and I guess those automated turret things. I wouldn’t really count turrets, and the Watchers are more support units than enemies. Halo 5 added the soldier, essentially giving us 3 offensive enemies. Even in CE, there were at least 4 offensive enemy types. Some may say “but the Flood only had 3 types of enemies in halo CE and 2.” Yah, and nobody liked the Flood in those games. Having only 3 real enemy types can get dull and repetitive fast. So along with adding a few more enemy types (I suggest 2 if you guys at 343 have the time and resources), I have some changes to the enemies themselves.

Crawlers: This is one of the few times where I think halo 4 did them better, at least in one area. This area is how they added verticality to gunfights by climbing up walls. This made them a unique enemy to fight and were more of a cross between grunts and drones. In halo 5, even though it was post launch, I like how 343 added an explosion effect to them, damaging enemies around it. IMO, one of their flaws in both games is how they have too much health, making body shots and melees not very effective. With the grunts, a body shot stuns them and a melee is always a one hit kill. With the crawlers, body shots can slightly stun them and a melee is sometimes a two hit kill (depending on the Crawler). What I’d like is if a crawler is shot while climbing on a wall, they’d fall off it, along with less body shots/melee shots to take it down and having it stun them more. So to review with the crawlers, I’d like them to have less health, the headshot explosion effect, and to crawl up walls.

Pack Leaders (new enemy type): I know there were many cut Promethean enemy concepts in halo 5, and I believe this was one of them. So these guys would essentially control the crawlers. When it is alive, the Crawlers would stay near it and focus fire on you or your allies. The Crawlers would only retreat if the Pack Leader retreated. If the Pack Leader died before all the Crawlers did, the Crawlers would fall out of line and act like they do in halo 4 and 5: basically running up, shooting you, then running away. If the Crawlers died before the Pack Leader, the Pack Leader would either retreat back while trying to shoot you, or they’d pull out a melee weapon and charge at you in a last ditch effort to kill you and survive. Note that the Pack Leader only pulls out its gun or melee weapon when all the Crawlers are dead.

Soldiers: I have quite a few problems with the soldiers. For starters, without energy shields, they have stronger armor than Mjolnir. So right off the bat, I think they should have less armor. I’d like them to somewhat fill the role of the Jackal on the battlefield, and in some ways, they already have (snipers). Instead of having shields similar to the Jackals, these would be the only Promethean type to have teleportation, bur this teleportation would involve portals. Unless outnumbered, they’d use the teleportation as an offensive move instead of using it to retreat. They’d teleport to cover, behind you to try and flank you, to high ground, next to you to quickly melee you and then teleport back to another spot, or pretty much anywhere. They’d essentially be using Guerrilla tactics to attack you. To balance this, like I said above, they’d have relatively weak armor. I’m going for about 2 pistol/DMR/BR shots to break the armor, then 1 to the head to kill it. Just like the Jackals, I want the Soldiers to be the annoying enemies that everyone hates, but are still fun to fight. More on the soldiers’ teleporting ability in edit 2.

Centurions (new enemy type): These are probably my favorite out all my ideas just because of the potential they have. The Centurions would mirror the Spartans and Elites, which would also give them the potential and possibility to be playable in campaign or multiplayer. They would be humanoid and 7 ft tall. They’d have shields that’d be about as powerful as elites. When the shields would break, their heads would be vulnerable for a headshot. The Centurions would also phase like the Phaeton does as a thrust. This would also carry over to multiplayer if they’re ever added in. They would each lead a squad comprised of all types of Promethean enemies. I know they may be just reskins of the elites, but according to a waypoint thread a few months back, the majority of people said that elites were their favorite enemy to fight, so why not make a similar enemy for the Prometheans? Besides, it’s more of what they can add to the story and the lore. For the lore of the Centurions, I’m gonna jump to a new paragraph.

Cortana needed an independent but loyal mind on the battlefield, so using the Domain, she created unique AIs that would be placed in robotic bodies called Centurions. Her knowledge of the Spartan program caused her to create the bodies in a very similar way to Mjolnir armor, making the Centurions appear to be Promethean Spartans. Cortana knew that the ability to think independently could lead to her being overthrown, so she intentionally made them weaker than Spartans. As more checks to prevent an uprising, each AI would be locked to their Centurion bodies, so if the body was to die, so would the AI inside. If everything went well, the Centurions would be bring a human element to her Promethean army and efficiently lead her forces.

So the fact that the Centurions are independent thinking AIs would give them personality that the Prometheans don’t have. It also opens up the opportunity for a Centurion to rebel against Cortana just as the Arbiter rebelled against the Covenant. Maybe not for halo 6, but I think it’d be a good idea for a future halo game.

Knights and Watchers: I wouldn’t really change anything here, as they are in a pretty good spot in halo 5, except for one thing. I’d just change the knights so that it isn’t really required to shoot their glowing yellow orbs to kill it (so more weak spots besides the glowing orbs). I think they should also be splatterable. More on the Watchers in the first edit in my second post.

So the Crawlers would fill the role of the grunts and drones, the Soldiers would fill the role of the jackals, the Centurions would fill the role of the elites, the Knights would fill the role of the hunters, the Watchers would fill the role of the engineers, and the Pack Leaders would be an entirely new kind of enemy. However, they’d be different enough to not just be reskinned Covenant, but would still be fun like them.

Because I don’t have enough space to write the vehicle portion, I’ll just write it in the next post.

Lack of vehicles: One of halo’s main selling points is the vehicular warfare. The Prometheans only have 1 vehicle, leading to a lack of variety. So besides the Phaeton, here are a few Promethean vehicle ideas that I think would benefit them as a whole.

Valkyries: This vehicle would be the Promethean drop ship. Prometheans shouldn’t just be able to teleport everywhere and straight into battle. With drop ships, it gives the player time to prepare and if they have enough firepower, they can destroy it before it sends out its troops.

Phalanx: This a 3 person ground vehicle. It’s like a low-armored ghost that can phase instead of boost. However, it can’t shoot unless you switch modes. When you switch modes, the Phalanx would lock to the ground and change into a barricade, giving it more health. This barricade would provide your 2 passengers with splinter turrets and the driver with a powerful dual sentinel beam turret (like the Phaeton Helios) with a fast overheat rate. However, the driver and passengers have no cover from behind, so it is important to place the Phalanx well. Think of it as a warthog, but when you switch seats to the turret, you’re actually defended and not just a sitting duck.

I haven’t thought of a good heavy vehicle for Prometheans yet, but when I do, I’ll edit it info this post. Maybe a War Sphinx?
Edit 3: I got 2 more vehicle ideas, but I wanted to keep it here instead of by the other edits.

Manticore: A Forerunner tank that fires an orange ball of hard light that resembles a fireball. The projectile moves slower than a Scorpion shell and much faster than a Wraith mortar, but is more powerful than a Scorpion. If the shoot button (RT) is held for 2 seconds, the projectile gains the ability to track its target, but it loses some velocity and damage. The tank can hold 2 passengers along with the driver. The 2 passengers are each given a turret that fires like the primary firing mode of the incineration cannon (the firing mode introduced in halo 5). These turrets would be different from the incineration cannons because they’d only fire 1 projectile instead of 2 per trigger pull, they’d have a much faster RoF, and they wouldn’t arc (so they’d move in a straight line).

Centaur: The Promethean version of a warthog, but with a twist: the driver can create portals like the new version of the soldiers (my version). So the first portal would be fired using LT and would stop once it hits a wall (just like the game “Portal”). The second portal would be shot using RT and would appear directly in front of you, allowing you to either drive through it, allow your gunner to shoot through it, or let teammates through. Also, yes, you can visibly see through both sides of the portal, so you wouldn’t be running in blind. After both portals are placed, pressing RT would close both of them, and pressing LT would fire another portal while closing the original 2. The gunner would have a safeguard sentinel beam turret. Besides a driver and a gunner, 2 passenger seats would be available on the sides. However, I know that this vehicle may not be possible due to engine limitations, but hopefully it is possible.

I know you guys at 343 will probably not have the time or resources to get all of this in the game, but if you can at least get most of the improvements, the Prometheans would be a lot more fun to fight. As always, if you’ve gotten this far, thank you very much for reading.

Edit 1: My OP is too big so all edits will have to go here. Hotrod192 had a great idea for the Watchers and their variants:

Watcher Protector: A heavy, well-armoured yet slower version of the current Watcher. Has thicker armour plates and a yellow glow to set it apart from regular Watchers. While being lightly armed, it would have the ability to spawn a bubble shield that would remain connected to its underside, allowing it to move around the field. This Watcher would prioritize protecting higher-ranking Knights and turrets.

Watcher Manipulator: A light and fast variant with no attack. Glows purple. While being unarmed, this Watcher would create an active camouflage field around itself, and would prioritize cloaking friendly groups of units. Multiple Watchers could work together to create a larger cloaking field, but would not cloak each other. For protection, these Watchers would try to hide behind cloaked Crawlers which they would use as meat shields.

Watcher Discharger: Glows blue. This Watcher variant would “attach” itself to a single unit, emphasizing high DPS allies. While connected to the unit, it would provide a damage and speed boost. If an enemy comes too close, the Watcher Discharger will let out a blast of EMP to disable shields and vehicles.

Watcher Aggressor: A more heavily armed Watched that does not provide a support role. Glows red. Instead of being armed with a Boltshot and supportive abilities, this Watcher is armed with a Safeguard Sentinel Beam to provide fire support from all angles. Attempts to overwhelm the enemy to distract them from bigger priority targets, such as Knights.

Edit 2: This edit is regarding the soldiers teleporting ability. I was talking with someone and they gave me an idea. What if the soldiers created portals (only 2 at a time of course). Once the soldier reached its destination, the portal would stay open for a second longer, allowing you to have a chance of chasing it through. However, a portal could stay open longer if it wanted to do a hit and run tactic. To prevent the issue of the halo 4 teleporting knights and not knowing where they were, both portals would be connected with a thin line of fog-looking energy.

These ideas are awesome! It would be cool to have more vehicles in Halo, Halo 4 and 5 started to drift away from vehicles in campaign.

> 2535412357303746;3:
> These ideas are awesome! It would be cool to have more vehicles in Halo, Halo 4 and 5 started to drift away from vehicles in campaign.

Dude, I agree!

> 2533274925370623;4:
> > 2535412357303746;3:
> > These ideas are awesome! It would be cool to have more vehicles in Halo, Halo 4 and 5 started to drift away from vehicles in campaign.
>
> Dude, I agree!

I really hope we see some sort of Warthog run at the end of Halo 6.

> 2533274870389366;5:
> > 2533274925370623;4:
> > > 2535412357303746;3:
> > > These ideas are awesome! It would be cool to have more vehicles in Halo, Halo 4 and 5 started to drift away from vehicles in campaign.
> >
> > Dude, I agree!
>
> I really hope we see some sort of Warthog run at the end of Halo 6.

That would be fun. I would love an ending like that.

> 2533274925370623;6:
> > 2533274870389366;5:
> > > 2533274925370623;4:
> > > > 2535412357303746;3:
> > > > These ideas are awesome! It would be cool to have more vehicles in Halo, Halo 4 and 5 started to drift away from vehicles in campaign.
> > >
> > > Dude, I agree!
> >
> > I really hope we see some sort of Warthog run at the end of Halo 6.
>
> That would be fun. I would love an ending like that.

The Halo 3 Warthog run was perfection. <3

Gets me pumped every single time.

> 2533274870389366;7:
> > 2533274925370623;6:
> > > 2533274870389366;5:
> > > > 2533274925370623;4:
> > > > > 2535412357303746;3:
> > > > > These ideas are awesome! It would be cool to have more vehicles in Halo, Halo 4 and 5 started to drift away from vehicles in campaign.
> > > >
> > > > Dude, I agree!
> > >
> > > I really hope we see some sort of Warthog run at the end of Halo 6.
> >
> > That would be fun. I would love an ending like that.
>
> The Halo 3 Warthog run was perfection. <3
>
> Gets me pumped every single time.

Same, it is one of my favorite moments in Halo. Sometimes I just start on checkpoint Bravo on the last mission just to do it XD.

> 2533274925370623;8:
> > 2533274870389366;7:
> > > 2533274925370623;6:
> > > > 2533274870389366;5:
> > > > > 2533274925370623;4:
> > > > > > 2535412357303746;3:
> > > > > > These ideas are awesome! It would be cool to have more vehicles in Halo, Halo 4 and 5 started to drift away from vehicles in campaign.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dude, I agree!
> > > >
> > > > I really hope we see some sort of Warthog run at the end of Halo 6.
> > >
> > > That would be fun. I would love an ending like that.
> >
> > The Halo 3 Warthog run was perfection. <3
> >
> > Gets me pumped every single time.
>
> Same, it is one of my favorite moments in Halo. Sometimes I just start on checkpoint Bravo on the last mission just to do it XD.

I gotta start from the beginning. Just to see Sgt. Johnson. RIP <3

Arc Trooper 48 said: The little variety of enemies: There are too few of them and the ones we have aren’t that fun. In halo 4, we had the Knight, the Crawler, the Watcher, and I guess those automated turret things. I wouldn’t really count turrets, andhers are more support units than enemies. Halo 5 added the soldier, essentially giving us 3 offensive enemies. Even in CE, there were at least 4 offensive enemy types. Some may say “but the Flood only had 3 types of enemies in halo CE and 2.” Yah, and nobody liked the Flood in those games. Having only 3 real enemy types can get dull and repetitive fast.

Crawlers: This is one of the few times where I think halo 4 did them better, at least in one area. This area is how they added verticality to gunfights by climbing up walls. This made them a unique enemy to fight and were more of a cross between grunts and drones. In halo 5, even though it was post launch, I like how 343 added an explosion effect to them, damaging enemies around it. IMO, one of their flaws in both games is how body shots and melees aren’t very effective. With the grunts, a body shot stuns them and a melee is always a one hit kill. With the crawlers, body shots can slightly stun them and a melee is sometimes a two hit kill (depending on the Crawler). What I’d like is if a crawler is shot while climbing on a wall, they’d fall off it, along with less body shots/melee shots to take it down and having it stun them more. So to review with the crawlers, I’d like them to have less health, the headshot explosion effect, and to crawl up walls.

Pack Leaders (new enemy type): I know there were many cut Promethean enemy concepts in halo 5, and I believe this was one of them. So these guys would essentially control the crawlers. When it is alive, the Crawlers would stay near it and focus fire on you or your allies. The Crawlers would only retreat if the Pack Leader retreated. If the Pack Leader died before all the Crawlers did, the Crawlers would fall out of line and act like they do in halo 4 and 5: basically running up, shooting you, then running away. If the Crawlers died before the Pack Leader, the Pack Leader would either retreat back while trying to shoot you, or they’d pull out a melee weapon and charge at you in a last ditch effort to kill you and survive. Note that the Pack Leader only pulls out its gun or melee weapon when all the Crawlers are dead.

Soldiers: I have quite a few problems with the soldiers. For starters, without energy shields, they have stronger armor than Mjolnir. So right off the bat, I think they should have less armor. I’d like them to somewhat fill the role of the Jackal on the battlefield, and in some ways, they already have (snipers). Instead of having shields similar to the Jackals, these would be the only Promethean type to have teleportation, similar to how they have it in halo 5. Unless outnumbered, they’d use the teleportation as an offensive move instead of using it to retreat. They’d teleport to cover, behind you to try and flank you, to high ground, next to you to quickly melee you and then teleport back to another spot, or pretty much anywhere. They’d essentially be using Guerrilla tactics to attack you. To balance this, like I said above, they’d have relatively weak armor. I’m going for about 2 precision shots to break the armor, then 1 to the head to kill it. Just like the Jackals, I want the Soldiers to be the annoying enemies that everyone hates, but are still fun to fight.

Centurions (new enemy type): These are probably my favorite out of all my ideas just because of the potential they have. The Centurions would mirror the Spartans and Elites, which would also give them the potential and possibility to be playable in campaign or multiplayer. They would be humanoid and 7 ft tall. They’d have shields that’d be about as powerful as elites. When the shields would break, their heads would be vulnerable for a headshot. The Centurions would also phase like the Phaeton does as a thrust. This would also carry over to multiplayer if they’re ever added in. They would each lead a squad comprised of all types of Promethean enemies. I know they may be just reskins of the elites, but according to a waypoint thread a few months back, the majority of people said that elites were their favorite enemy to fight, so why not make a similar enemy for the Prometheans? Besides, it’s more of what they can add to the story and the lore. For the lore of the Centurions, I’m gonna jump to a new paragraph.

Cortana needed an independent but loyal mind on the battlefield, so using the Domain, she created unique AIs that would be placed in robotic bodies called Centurions. Her knowledge of the Spartan program caused her to create the bodies in a very similar way to Mjolnir armor, making the Centurions appear to be Promethean Spartans. Cortana knew that the ability to think independently could lead to her being overthrown, so she intentionally made them weaker than Spartans. As more checks to prevent an uprising, each AI would be locked to their Centurion bodies, so if the body was to die, so would the AI inside. If everything went well, the Centurions would be bring a human element to her Promethean army and efficiently lead her forces.

So the fact that the Centurions are independent thinking AIs would give them personality that the Prometheans don’t have. It also opens up the opportunity for a Centurion to rebel against Cortana just as the Arbiter rebelled against the Covenant. Maybe a good idea for a future halo game?

Knights and Watchers: I wouldn’t really change anything here, as they are in a pretty good spot in halo 5, except for one thing. I’d just change the knights so that it isn’t really required to shoot their glowing yellow orbs to kill it. I think they should also be splatterable.

So the Crawlers would fill the role of the grunts and drones, the Soldiers would fill the role of the jackals, the Centurions would fill the role of the elites, the Knights would fill the role of the hunters, the Watchers would fill the role of the engineers, and the Pack Leaders would be an entirely new kind of enemy. However, they’d be different enough to not just be reskinned Covenant, but would still be fun like them.

AssumedArmy said: I like these ideas, but what would the Pack Leader be like? Biped, quadruped… ? The Crawler Primes are supposed to be the alphas of the pack, so the Pack Leaders seem unnecessary if the Primes could bond the pack together while they’re alive.

Other than that, I love your updates to the preexisting units as well as your new unit. The Knights are totally OP in H5 with the glowball things, but at least they can’t teleport like in H4. THAT was RIDICULOUS, especially since they could also Phaeton boost.

Small note on Watchers, in H4 (I don’t remember about H5) they had Boltshots and were the MOST awful, drive-you-crazy things in the galaxy, especially on Legendary, because they were fast as -Yoink-, required at least a full clip of anything short of a sniper to kill (as in if you missed two shots from your AR clip, it was still alive), and went around reviving the Knights that had taken the rest of your ammo from half a dozen lives before they died the first time. One was bad, two was a nightmare, and any more was a two-hour horror movie as soon as you saw them. And it was only insult to injury when al you got from em was the Boltshot.

Sorry for the long “small note”, I guess I hate those things more than I thought. :-/

I really like these ideas you have. The Prometheans are a good idea, in theory (though I really don’t like how they look nothing like pre-established Forerunner tech, but that’s a completely different topic), but they just have not been implemented properly. I think the ideas for different units you brought up are a fantastic way to help fill out their ranks and bring them the variety that they really need.

That being said, I disagree with you when you say that Watchers should remain the way they are. Watchers are meant to be a support unit, but it feels like they’re far from reaching their potential. To me, a support unit should really dictate the flow of the battle, making a noticeable difference with their presence. While the current Watchers are fine, I would love to see them fleshed out a bit more with higher ranks to create more diversity. Here are a few ideas I have :

  • Watcher Protector : A heavy, well-armoured yet slower version of the current Watcher. Has thicker armour plates and a yellow glow to set it apart from regular Watchers. While being lightly armed, it would have the ability to spawn a bubble shield that would remain connected to its underside, allowing it to move around the field. This Watcher would prioritize protecting higher-ranking Knights and turrets. - Watcher Manipulator : A light and fast variant with no attack. Glows purple. While being unarmed, this Watcher would create an active camouflage field around itself, and would prioritize cloaking friendly groups of units. Multiple Watchers could work together to create a larger cloaking field, but would not cloak each other. For protection, these Watchers would try to hide behind cloaked Crawlers which they would use as meat shields. - Watcher Discharger : Glows blue. This Watcher variant would “attach” itself to a single unit, emphasizing high DPS allies. While connected to the unit, it would provide a damage and speed boost. If an enemy comes too close, the Watcher Discharger will let out a blast of EMP to disable shields and vehicles. - Watcher Aggressor : A more heavily armed Watched that does not provide a support role. Glows red. Instead of being armed with a Boltshot and supportive abilities, this Watcher is armed with a Safeguard Sentinel Beam to provide fire support from all angles. Attempts to overwhelm the enemy to distract them from bigger priority targets, such as Knights.

Liking everything you said—especially regarding the Knights!

Wall Crawlers would always have the highground with homing weapons so idk about that. I’m hoping we get to see some Promethean ground-vehicles in the future. I’d like Knights to be splatterable when their armor is broken.

> 2533274808386392;11:
> - Watcher Protector : A heavy, well-armoured yet slower version of the current Watcher. Has thicker armour plates and a yellow glow to set it apart from regular Watchers. While being lightly armed, it would have the ability to spawn a bubble shield that would remain connected to its underside, allowing it to move around the field. This Watcher would prioritize protecting higher-ranking Knights and turrets. - Watcher Manipulator : A light and fast variant with no attack. Glows purple. While being unarmed, this Watcher would create an active camouflage field around itself, and would prioritize cloaking friendly groups of units. Multiple Watchers could work together to create a larger cloaking field, but would not cloak each other. For protection, these Watchers would try to hide behind cloaked Crawlers which they would use as meat shields. - Watcher Discharger : Glows blue. This Watcher variant would “attach” itself to a single unit, emphasizing high DPS allies. While connected to the unit, it would provide a damage and speed boost. If an enemy comes too close, the Watcher Discharger will let out a blast of EMP to disable shields and vehicles. - Watcher Aggressor : A more heavily armed Watched that does not provide a support role. Glows red. Instead of being armed with a Boltshot and supportive abilities, this Watcher is armed with a Safeguard Sentinel Beam to provide fire support from all angles. Attempts to overwhelm the enemy to distract them from bigger priority targets, such as Knights.

This is more along the lines of what I’d like to see regarding Promethean enemies: more varieties of the existing units.

> 2533274967819972;10:
> AssumedArmy said: I like these ideas, but what would the Pack Leader be like? Biped, quadruped… ? The Crawler Primes are supposed to be the alphas of the pack, so the Pack Leaders seem unnecessary if the Primes could bond the pack together while they’re alive.
>
> Other than that, I love your updates to the preexisting units as well as your new unit. The Knights are totally OP in H5 with the glowball things, but at least they can’t teleport like in H4. THAT was RIDICULOUS, especially since they could also Phaeton boost.
>
> Small note on Watchers, in H4 (I don’t remember about H5) they had Boltshots and were the MOST awful, drive-you-crazy things in the galaxy, especially on Legendary, because they were fast as -Yoink-, required at least a full clip of anything short of a sniper to kill (as in if you missed two shots from your AR clip, it was still alive), and went around reviving the Knights that had taken the rest of your ammo from half a dozen lives before they died the first time. One was bad, two was a nightmare, and any more was a two-hour horror movie as soon as you saw them. And it was only insult to injury when al you got from em was the Boltshot.
>
> Sorry for the long “small note”, I guess I hate those things more than I thought. :-/

I would kinda like the Pack Leaders as they were in the concept art. Skip to about 6:16 in this video to see them. The Crawler Primes are supposed to be the leaders of the pack, but they really aren’t. They’re just Crawlers with more spikes and more health. The Pack Leaders would actually control the Crawlers and not just be a stronger version of them.

The Watchers in halo 4 were extremely annoying. In halo 5, they have a boltshot, but it is basically useless. They were just nerfed a lot in general because players thought they were too annoying.

> 2533274808386392;11:
> I really like these ideas you have. The Prometheans are a good idea, in theory (though I really don’t like how they look nothing like pre-established Forerunner tech, but that’s a completely different topic), but they just have not been implemented properly. I think the ideas for different units you brought up are a fantastic way to help fill out their ranks and bring them the variety that they really need.
>
> That being said, I disagree with you when you say that Watchers should remain the way they are. Watchers are meant to be a support unit, but it feels like they’re far from reaching their potential. To me, a support unit should really dictate the flow of the battle, making a noticeable difference with their presence. While the current Watchers are fine, I would love to see them fleshed out a bit more with higher ranks to create more diversity. Here are a few ideas I have :
>
>
> - Watcher Protector : A heavy, well-armoured yet slower version of the current Watcher. Has thicker armour plates and a yellow glow to set it apart from regular Watchers. While being lightly armed, it would have the ability to spawn a bubble shield that would remain connected to its underside, allowing it to move around the field. This Watcher would prioritize protecting higher-ranking Knights and turrets. - Watcher Manipulator : A light and fast variant with no attack. Glows purple. While being unarmed, this Watcher would create an active camouflage field around itself, and would prioritize cloaking friendly groups of units. Multiple Watchers could work together to create a larger cloaking field, but would not cloak each other. For protection, these Watchers would try to hide behind cloaked Crawlers which they would use as meat shields. - Watcher Discharger : Glows blue. This Watcher variant would “attach” itself to a single unit, emphasizing high DPS allies. While connected to the unit, it would provide a damage and speed boost. If an enemy comes too close, the Watcher Discharger will let out a blast of EMP to disable shields and vehicles. - Watcher Aggressor : A more heavily armed Watched that does not provide a support role. Glows red. Instead of being armed with a Boltshot and supportive abilities, this Watcher is armed with a Safeguard Sentinel Beam to provide fire support from all angles. Attempts to overwhelm the enemy to distract them from bigger priority targets, such as Knights.

You always bring great ideas when you come to one of my feedback threads :slight_smile:

I didn’t really know how to make them less annoying and repetitive, so I just stuck with the halo 5 version as they still were support units but weren’t annoying. I’ll add this to my OP and credit you.

Fantastic ideas OP, but I would suggest a few ideas myself if you are interested.

Watchers definitely need to be more of a support unit. I would like to see their overall health decreased, but give them a rechargeable ability to deploy a stationary floating hardlight shield for personal protection that only just covers their body if they remain still. This sheild would offer protection from whatever is immediately harming it, as they would deploy it after facing their attacker. This ability would have the downside that the chosen agressor can reposition themselves and attack from an angle that isn’t covered. This forces the player to move around, and in pitched battles, would pose a risk/reward situation.

Next, I would propose that Watchers gain the ability to fabricate grenades or maybe even weapons (grenades are better because they can more believably be in limited supply for AI) for fellow Soldiers. This is another ability that would make Watchers a core support unit as they enable Soldiers to keep tossing explosives at you.

Finally, I think that Watchers should gain the ability to fabricate Crawlers, albeit only the weakest variants. This was showcased during Halo 4’s campaign, (they could also summon Forerunner Turrets but that’s another thing entirely), so it’s not a stretch to imagine it return from a lore standpoint.

I really like your ideas for Crawlers, they should be weaker but much more annoying to deal with and I really miss the wall climbing as it often caught me off-guard.

On Soldiers, I agree that their teleportation needs changing. Making it primarily an offensive ability or an ability that is primarily used during offensive maneuvers, I would like to see it’s​ animation trimmed from the floaty crap to more of an instant BAM in your face! Teleporting behind is a clever idea and I like that sort of thing in games, it always keeps the player on edge.

I have also been clamouring for more Promethean vehicles but it’s not like I have any good ideas for them.

Keep up the good work OP.

> 2533274810001991;16:
> Fantastic ideas OP, but I would suggest a few ideas myself if you are interested.
>
> Watchers definitely need to be more of a support unit. I would like to see their overall health decreased, but give them a rechargeable ability to deploy a stationary floating hardlight shield for personal protection that only just covers their body if they remain still. This sheild would offer protection from whatever is immediately harming it, as they would deploy it after facing their attacker. This ability would have the downside that the chosen agressor can reposition themselves and attack from an angle that isn’t covered. This forces the player to move around, and in pitched battles, would pose a risk/reward situation.
>
> Next, I would propose that Watchers gain the ability to fabricate grenades or maybe even weapons (grenades are better because they can more believably be in limited supply for AI) for fellow Soldiers. This is another ability that would make Watchers a core support unit as they enable Soldiers to keep tossing explosives at you.
>
> Finally, I think that Watchers should gain the ability to fabricate Crawlers, albeit only the weakest variants. This was showcased during Halo 4’s campaign, (they could also summon Forerunner Turrets but that’s another thing entirely), so it’s not a stretch to imagine it return from a lore standpoint.
>
> I really like your ideas for Crawlers, they should be weaker but much more annoying to deal with and I really miss the wall climbing as it often caught me off-guard.
>
> On Soldiers, I agree that their teleportation needs changing. Making it primarily an offensive ability or an ability that is primarily used during offensive maneuvers, I would like to see it’s​ animation trimmed from the floaty crap to more of an instant BAM in your face! Teleporting behind is a clever idea and I like that sort of thing in games, it always keeps the player on edge.
>
> I have also been clamouring for more Promethean vehicles but it’s not like I have any good ideas for them.
>
> Keep up the good work OP.

Thanks! You should see Hotrod192’s ideas for the Watchers which I edited into my second post. Maybe they can fabricate some turrets, but I wouldn’t really want them to randomly create new enemies, even if they are just Crawlers. This would cause you to immediately try and kill them first before they can create new enemies.

Your talk of the soldiers gave me a new idea. What if the soldiers created portals that they’d jump through? If you chased one through, you’d teleport to the other portal as well? You’d still know where they’d teleport though because the 2 portals would be connected with a thin fog kind of thing.

They are bullet sponges its a hassle to fight them

> 2535455681930574;1:
> The Prometheans have been a source of long debate, but many can agree that they aren’t the most fun to fight. While mostly improved from halo 4, they can still be vastly improved. So I, Arc Trooper, am up to the challenge of trying to make them fun to fight. I’m happy with any suggestions. I know this is long, so I’ve bolded the discussion points if any of you want to just check a few out. As this is a feedback thread and I want 343 to see this, I’m notifying ske7ch :slight_smile:
>
> The little variety of enemies: There are too few of them and the ones we have aren’t that fun. In halo 4, we had the Knight, the Crawler, the Watcher, and I guess those automated turret things. I wouldn’t really count turrets, and the Watchers are more support units than enemies. Halo 5 added the soldier, essentially giving us 3 offensive enemies. Even in CE, there were at least 4 offensive enemy types. Some may say “but the Flood only had 3 types of enemies in halo CE and 2.” Yah, and nobody liked the Flood in those games. Having only 3 real enemy types can get dull and repetitive fast. So along with adding a few more enemy types (I suggest 2 if you guys at 343 have the time and resources), I have some changes to the enemies themselves.
>
> Crawlers: This is one of the few times where I think halo 4 did them better, at least in one area. This area is how they added verticality to gunfights by climbing up walls. This made them a unique enemy to fight and were more of a cross between grunts and drones. In halo 5, even though it was post launch, I like how 343 added an explosion effect to them, damaging enemies around it. IMO, one of their flaws in both games is how they have too much health, making body shots and melees not very effective. With the grunts, a body shot stuns them and a melee is always a one hit kill. With the crawlers, body shots can slightly stun them and a melee is sometimes a two hit kill (depending on the Crawler). What I’d like is if a crawler is shot while climbing on a wall, they’d fall off it, along with less body shots/melee shots to take it down and having it stun them more. So to review with the crawlers, I’d like them to have less health, the headshot explosion effect, and to crawl up walls.
>
> Pack Leaders (new enemy type): I know there were many cut Promethean enemy concepts in halo 5, and I believe this was one of them. So these guys would essentially control the crawlers. When it is alive, the Crawlers would stay near it and focus fire on you or your allies. The Crawlers would only retreat if the Pack Leader retreated. If the Pack Leader died before all the Crawlers did, the Crawlers would fall out of line and act like they do in halo 4 and 5: basically running up, shooting you, then running away. If the Crawlers died before the Pack Leader, the Pack Leader would either retreat back while trying to shoot you, or they’d pull out a melee weapon and charge at you in a last ditch effort to kill you and survive. Note that the Pack Leader only pulls out its gun or melee weapon when all the Crawlers are dead.
>
> Soldiers: I have quite a few problems with the soldiers. For starters, without energy shields, they have stronger armor than Mjolnir. So right off the bat, I think they should have less armor. I’d like them to somewhat fill the role of the Jackal on the battlefield, and in some ways, they already have (snipers). Instead of having shields similar to the Jackals, these would be the only Promethean type to have teleportation, similar to how they have it in halo 5. Unless outnumbered, they’d use the teleportation as an offensive move instead of using it to retreat. They’d teleport to cover, behind you to try and flank you, to high ground, next to you to quickly melee you and then teleport back to another spot, or pretty much anywhere. They’d essentially be using Guerrilla tactics to attack you. To balance this, like I said above, they’d have relatively weak armor. I’m going for about 2 pistol/DMR/BR shots to break the armor, then 1 to the head to kill it. Just like the Jackals, I want the Soldiers to be the annoying enemies that everyone hates, but are still fun to fight.
>
> Centurions (new enemy type): These are probably my favorite out all my ideas just because of the potential they have. The Centurions would mirror the Spartans and Elites, which would also give them the potential and possibility to be playable in campaign or multiplayer. They would be humanoid and 7 ft tall. They’d have shields that’d be about as powerful as elites. When the shields would break, their heads would be vulnerable for a headshot. The Centurions would also phase like the Phaeton does as a thrust. This would also carry over to multiplayer if they’re ever added in. They would each lead a squad comprised of all types of Promethean enemies. I know they may be just reskins of the elites, but according to a waypoint thread a few months back, the majority of people said that elites were their favorite enemy to fight, so why not make a similar enemy for the Prometheans? Besides, it’s more of what they can add to the story and the lore. For the lore of the Centurions, I’m gonna jump to a new paragraph.
>
> Cortana needed an independent but loyal mind on the battlefield, so using the Domain, she created unique AIs that would be placed in robotic bodies called Centurions. Her knowledge of the Spartan program caused her to create the bodies in a very similar way to Mjolnir armor, making the Centurions appear to be Promethean Spartans. Cortana knew that the ability to think independently could lead to her being overthrown, so she intentionally made them weaker than Spartans. As more checks to prevent an uprising, each AI would be locked to their Centurion bodies, so if the body was to die, so would the AI inside. If everything went well, the Centurions would be bring a human element to her Promethean army and efficiently lead her forces.
>
> So the fact that the Centurions are independent thinking AIs would give them personality that the Prometheans don’t have. It also opens up the opportunity for a Centurion to rebel against Cortana just as the Arbiter rebelled against the Covenant. Maybe not for halo 6, but I think it’d be a good idea for a future halo game.
>
> Knights and Watchers: I wouldn’t really change anything here, as they are in a pretty good spot in halo 5, except for one thing. I’d just change the knights so that it isn’t really required to shoot their glowing yellow orbs to kill it. I think they should also be splatterable. More on the Watchers in the first edit in my second post.
>
> So the Crawlers would fill the role of the grunts and drones, the Soldiers would fill the role of the jackals, the Centurions would fill the role of the elites, the Knights would fill the role of the hunters, the Watchers would fill the role of the engineers, and the Pack Leaders would be an entirely new kind of enemy. However, they’d be different enough to not just be reskinned Covenant, but would still be fun like them.
>
> Because I don’t have enough space to write the vehicle portion, I’ll just write it in the next post.

I dont like the phase idea for centurions making its way into mp, we pretty much already have that with the thrusters. But I totally agree with everything else.

> 2533274831172342;19:
> > 2535455681930574;1:
> > The Prometheans have been a source of long debate, but many can agree that they aren’t the most fun to fight. While mostly improved from halo 4, they can still be vastly improved. So I, Arc Trooper, am up to the challenge of trying to make them fun to fight. I’m happy with any suggestions. I know this is long, so I’ve bolded the discussion points if any of you want to just check a few out. As this is a feedback thread and I want 343 to see this, I’m notifying ske7ch :slight_smile:
> >
> > The little variety of enemies: There are too few of them and the ones we have aren’t that fun. In halo 4, we had the Knight, the Crawler, the Watcher, and I guess those automated turret things. I wouldn’t really count turrets, and the Watchers are more support units than enemies. Halo 5 added the soldier, essentially giving us 3 offensive enemies. Even in CE, there were at least 4 offensive enemy types. Some may say “but the Flood only had 3 types of enemies in halo CE and 2.” Yah, and nobody liked the Flood in those games. Having only 3 real enemy types can get dull and repetitive fast. So along with adding a few more enemy types (I suggest 2 if you guys at 343 have the time and resources), I have some changes to the enemies themselves.
> >
> > Crawlers: This is one of the few times where I think halo 4 did them better, at least in one area. This area is how they added verticality to gunfights by climbing up walls. This made them a unique enemy to fight and were more of a cross between grunts and drones. In halo 5, even though it was post launch, I like how 343 added an explosion effect to them, damaging enemies around it. IMO, one of their flaws in both games is how they have too much health, making body shots and melees not very effective. With the grunts, a body shot stuns them and a melee is always a one hit kill. With the crawlers, body shots can slightly stun them and a melee is sometimes a two hit kill (depending on the Crawler). What I’d like is if a crawler is shot while climbing on a wall, they’d fall off it, along with less body shots/melee shots to take it down and having it stun them more. So to review with the crawlers, I’d like them to have less health, the headshot explosion effect, and to crawl up walls.
> >
> > Pack Leaders (new enemy type): I know there were many cut Promethean enemy concepts in halo 5, and I believe this was one of them. So these guys would essentially control the crawlers. When it is alive, the Crawlers would stay near it and focus fire on you or your allies. The Crawlers would only retreat if the Pack Leader retreated. If the Pack Leader died before all the Crawlers did, the Crawlers would fall out of line and act like they do in halo 4 and 5: basically running up, shooting you, then running away. If the Crawlers died before the Pack Leader, the Pack Leader would either retreat back while trying to shoot you, or they’d pull out a melee weapon and charge at you in a last ditch effort to kill you and survive. Note that the Pack Leader only pulls out its gun or melee weapon when all the Crawlers are dead.
> >
> > Soldiers: I have quite a few problems with the soldiers. For starters, without energy shields, they have stronger armor than Mjolnir. So right off the bat, I think they should have less armor. I’d like them to somewhat fill the role of the Jackal on the battlefield, and in some ways, they already have (snipers). Instead of having shields similar to the Jackals, these would be the only Promethean type to have teleportation, similar to how they have it in halo 5. Unless outnumbered, they’d use the teleportation as an offensive move instead of using it to retreat. They’d teleport to cover, behind you to try and flank you, to high ground, next to you to quickly melee you and then teleport back to another spot, or pretty much anywhere. They’d essentially be using Guerrilla tactics to attack you. To balance this, like I said above, they’d have relatively weak armor. I’m going for about 2 pistol/DMR/BR shots to break the armor, then 1 to the head to kill it. Just like the Jackals, I want the Soldiers to be the annoying enemies that everyone hates, but are still fun to fight.
> >
> > Centurions (new enemy type): These are probably my favorite out all my ideas just because of the potential they have. The Centurions would mirror the Spartans and Elites, which would also give them the potential and possibility to be playable in campaign or multiplayer. They would be humanoid and 7 ft tall. They’d have shields that’d be about as powerful as elites. When the shields would break, their heads would be vulnerable for a headshot. The Centurions would also phase like the Phaeton does as a thrust. This would also carry over to multiplayer if they’re ever added in. They would each lead a squad comprised of all types of Promethean enemies. I know they may be just reskins of the elites, but according to a waypoint thread a few months back, the majority of people said that elites were their favorite enemy to fight, so why not make a similar enemy for the Prometheans? Besides, it’s more of what they can add to the story and the lore. For the lore of the Centurions, I’m gonna jump to a new paragraph.
> >
> > Cortana needed an independent but loyal mind on the battlefield, so using the Domain, she created unique AIs that would be placed in robotic bodies called Centurions. Her knowledge of the Spartan program caused her to create the bodies in a very similar way to Mjolnir armor, making the Centurions appear to be Promethean Spartans. Cortana knew that the ability to think independently could lead to her being overthrown, so she intentionally made them weaker than Spartans. As more checks to prevent an uprising, each AI would be locked to their Centurion bodies, so if the body was to die, so would the AI inside. If everything went well, the Centurions would be bring a human element to her Promethean army and efficiently lead her forces.
> >
> > So the fact that the Centurions are independent thinking AIs would give them personality that the Prometheans don’t have. It also opens up the opportunity for a Centurion to rebel against Cortana just as the Arbiter rebelled against the Covenant. Maybe not for halo 6, but I think it’d be a good idea for a future halo game.
> >
> > Knights and Watchers: I wouldn’t really change anything here, as they are in a pretty good spot in halo 5, except for one thing. I’d just change the knights so that it isn’t really required to shoot their glowing yellow orbs to kill it. I think they should also be splatterable. More on the Watchers in the first edit in my second post.
> >
> > So the Crawlers would fill the role of the grunts and drones, the Soldiers would fill the role of the jackals, the Centurions would fill the role of the elites, the Knights would fill the role of the hunters, the Watchers would fill the role of the engineers, and the Pack Leaders would be an entirely new kind of enemy. However, they’d be different enough to not just be reskinned Covenant, but would still be fun like them.
> >
> > Because I don’t have enough space to write the vehicle portion, I’ll just write it in the next post.
>
> I dont like the phase idea for centurions making its way into mp, we pretty much already have that with the thrusters. But I totally agree with everything else.

Yes I was saying if they were to become playable in the multiplayer, the Centurions “thrust” would be a phase.