How to HYBRID AA and Equipment made easy:

How to HYBRID AA and Equipment made easy:

This would be a hybrid of H3/H4 for H5.

AA/Equipment become the same. The are only available as map pickup, but it is possible through game settings that you can spawn with them. This would benefit custom games and action sack.

The big difference now is, that not all equipment is single use, some can be multiuse. To balance them out. The Bubble Shield and Power Drainer would be single use, where Hologram and Thruster Pack would be mutiuse. Again, you can change how many times each ability/equipment can be used and also change the time before it can be re-used. This gives you and 343 great power in game settings.

Take the Jet Pack (JP) for example. In both REACH and H4 it is very overpowered, it destroys map control and map movement. But if this was a one time use, or it had 3 quick upwards burst like the Thruster Pack. It would be much more balanced and require much more skill to use or had to be used more wisely and not wasted.

With these changes, if you encounter someone with the JP and you fired rockets at them, and the used the JP to escape and survive, and even if the then won the encounter. You wouldn’t feel cheated like you do in REACH and H4. You would go, well played. He used the JP wisely.

And the best thing, there would most likely only be the one JP available on the map. Not everyone would have it, like you see now. Gameplay would return to there greatness of H3. Map control would be meaningful again. And who collects the JP and use it wisely can benefit greatly. This is what made Equipment so good. It awards those who uses it wisely and punish those who uses it poorly. If you waste, you lost it.

That is why Equipment IMO much preferred. But if we have a hybrid of the two, we evolve equipment and make it so much more, and retain some of the aspects of AA.

We can’t really call the Hybrid Equipment or AA, so we need a new name.

The only name I have thought of so far, and it is not very impressive is “UTILITIES”. So if you like my idea, which I have had much help from the community to improve it (Thank to SWIFT and many others). And can think of a better name. Please tell.

IMO, at this current stage, i think this is the best approach. And most importantly, it returns Halo to an Arena Shooter by having “UTILITIES” placed on maps. And with the extra power you have with game settings. It will be much easier to make changes to any Utilities without the need of a TU.

Seems everyone is posting about what people prefer again, AA or Equipment.

I have been pasting this on many of those post, so just thought I create one. To get your feedback, ideas and improvements.

If you’ve been posting this in multiple threads already like you say you have, then there’s no need to make a new thread to say the same thing again.

If people want to comment on your idea, they will.

~ Duck.

> If you’ve been posting this in multiple threads already like you say you have, then there’s no need to make a new thread to say the same thing again.
>
> If people want to comment on your idea, they will.
>
> ~ Duck.

Thanks Duck,

But commenting on ones post and creating a new post are completely different. I see many people comments that are very valid but are lost amongst the pages of reply’s.

I thought my suggestion of an AA/Equipment Hybrid was worthy of a new post and hence is what I have done here.

If you could post a response stating your thoughts on this Hybrid idea or post your idea would greatly be appreciated.

> > If you’ve been posting this in multiple threads already like you say you have, then there’s no need to make a new thread to say the same thing again.
> >
> > If people want to comment on your idea, they will.
> >
> > ~ Duck.
>
> Thanks Duck,
>
> But commenting on ones post and creating a new post are completely different. I see many people comments that are very valid but are lost amongst the pages of reply’s.

Not if people (like you and I) take the time to read before they post, which in fairness a lot of people do.

> I thought my suggestion of an AA/Equipment Hybrid was worthy of a new post and hence is what I have done here.
>
> If you could post a response stating your thoughts on this Hybrid idea or post your idea would greatly be appreciated.

It is worthy. But as you said, there are already multiple posts on this topic, some of which even have the same general idea in the original post as in this one if not almost exactly the same. In the ones where that’s not the case, then you or others have posted this idea in those threads. The idea has been disseminated well enough and had a good reception.

My feedback already exists in another thread, so I won’t repeat myself here.

I see what you’re trying to do, and I like that you’re trying to keep a good point of conversation alive…but you’d be better off talking about this in one of the other topics that already exist. All you’re really doing here is making a clone thread when multiple already exist, therefore simply taking up room on the front page. Which in turn, drowns out other potential ideas that are just as worthy of discussion =/

~ Duck.

>

First off, I am glad that I could help you in some way to come up with this idea (I still remember the nice discussion you, Ghost and me had on this topic months ago).
However, even though Halo 3 has been my overall favorite Halo multiplayer experience for many many reason, equipment wasn’t one of those.
So, I still prefer the concept of AAs/Equipment at spawn over the concept of AAs/Equipment on map because if done right that can add more to the game and its gameplay than map pick ups in my opinion.
Why I think so I will explain in the following post.

I think an issue that has plaqued equipment was insignificance in two forms.
Firstly, it’s impact on the game was simply too minor as that you could use it to change the game significantly to your favor and hence it was almost ignored most of the time in Halo 3.
The impact of AAs on the game has been without doubt too big and out of control. They are constantly present advantages.
The middle ground that you are suggesting would solve that. It would give AAs/equipment more of an impact on the game while still keeping it under control.

Secondly, and I think that is more deciding, fundamentally AAs/equipment on map brought and bring absolutely nothing new to the table and therefore don’t really improve the game.
It is just an advantage placed on the map and we already have that in the several forms of power weapons, vehicles and, to my own displeasure, power ups.

> With these changes, if you encounter someone with the JP and you fired rockets at them, and the used the JP to escape and survive, and even if the then won the encounter. You wouldn’t feel cheated like you do in REACH and H4. <mark>You would go, well played. He used the JP wisely.</mark>

Would you say when someone killed you with a rocket launcher “well played, you killed me because you used the rocket launcher wisely”?
Likely not. Your opponent had an (limited) advantage that you did not have and he/she used it effectively against you and you simply accepted it and bear it.
Same applies to every map pick up. Even when some weapons or AAs/Equipment require more skill, thought and experience to get used effectively than others they are still advantages that other players do not have what makes it generally easier for you to get a kill or prevent your own death.
The player who actually played well and wisely is the one who outplays his/her opponent on an equal ground or can counter the player with the additional advantage and manages it to beat him/her or at least prevents his/her own death even though he/she is at a disadvantage.

> And the best thing, there would most likely only be the one JP available on the map. Not everyone would have it, like you see now. Gameplay would return to there greatness of H3. Map control would be meaningful again.

That not everyone has an additional advantage is something I sometimes find quite controversial. As long as a single player can only obtain one of said advantages I am fine with it, but things get heavily out of balance once one player has two advantages which he/she can use independed of each other (i.e: power weapon and equipment/AA) while others have nothing.

Map control or item control?
Map control should exist and be meaningful without any items placed on the map. Items should flow into map control and support it (when necessary) but shouldn’t be necessary for an incentive. For example a shotgun placed to hold an important pathway or room or a sniper placed to hold an important “outlook”.
On a side note because the “midship maps” are often praised as great arena maps, remove all the items from such maps and you will have a big shunned zone right in the middle of said maps during the entire game.
Really great arena maps…

> And who collects the JP and use it wisely can benefit greatly. This is what made Equipment so good. It awards those who uses it wisely and punish those who uses it poorly. If you waste, you lost it.

There isn’t much thought, experience or skill required to use something like a bubbleshield to achieve the desired effect though. I push the button and I get my advantage instantly. Unfortunately that applies to many equipments and AAs. So placing them on the map with limited uses doesn’t make them more skillful to use in any way. They will only get less used.

> IMO, at this current stage, i think this is the best approach. And most importantly, it returns Halo to an Arena Shooter by having “UTILITIES” placed on maps.

Though that is subjective of course, what is the “better” or more “interesting” arena shooter?
When we have people fighting over a super power like Jetpack to gain an advantage or when we have people who all start with the same super power and they have to gain an advantage by making the best out of it?

Personally I prefer the latter.
And that’s why I would suggest to incorporate certain AAs as default abilities into the design of certain maps or gametypes.

The certain AAs that I am primarily aiming for are the ones that focus around movement (Jetpack, Thruster Pack, Evade) because other than the “class-abilities” (i.e: Hardlight shield or regenfield) which give you a specific and direct advantage when pushing the button, the movement abilities can get used more freely and creatively what means it depends on the player’s input if and in which way and area the ability gives you an advantage.
For example you can use an ability like Jetpack in offensive ways as well as defensive ways plus you can even use it outside of combat and that all can only get achieved by the players thought, experience and skill and not by simply pushing the button.

Then to solve the “advantage issue” at spawn, that Reach’s and H4’s AAs have created, that some AAs are more useful in certain scenarios than others or are giving you generally a bigger advantage than others,
you could give every player the same default AA, plus to take it a step further to remove the inherent advantage aspect of AA entirely, you could incorporate them into the design of maps and turn them to inherent gameplay elements.
I.e:
On a map that incorporated a default ability like Jetpack (or alternatively TP) into its design, Jetpack would now function as a inherent movement mechanic on that map that is required to get from A to B, to traverse the map, plus it will only give you a significant advantage over your opponents when you mastered it, similar to strafing and shooting.

In the end you could have unique maps that play without AAs and you could have unique maps that play with AAs.
Personally, I think such an approach on AAs would offer more potential to improve “arena Halo” in several fields, especially in regards to map design and therefore gameplay, than simply placing more (different) advantages on the maps.

I don’t want my jetpack to be one use though Thomsy, and I want to spawn with it. When I use jetpack I’m constantly lurking in the lower reaches of the map and flying up to the higher areas when I feel I should. I probably use it 15-20 times each life, one time use would be no good.

> I don’t want my jetpack to be one use though Thomsy, and I want to spawn with it. When I use jetpack I’m constantly lurking in the lower reaches of the map and flying up to the higher areas when I feel I should. I probably use it 15-20 times each life, one time use would be no good.

Seeing as it affects gameplay flow so much, it definitely shouldn’t have multiple uses and be spawned with, at least not in ranked. It will pop up at least two or three times per match, with anywhere from 1-3 uses each time, you’ll get enough use out of it if you earn it.

Besides, I’m sure you’ll adapt and overcome.

~ Duck.

The way I see it there’s two ways to go about tackling jetpacks on-spawn.

  1. Make maps flat so the height advantage is nullified.
  2. Make maps extra high so the jetpack is essentially the same as the jump button (which is pointless because everyone already spawns with a jump button).

The former limits what we can do with the map design, the latter affects other areas of the game. For example, we would need larger ranged weapons because the distance between the ground and ceiling would be higher.

> The player who actually played well and wisely is the one who outplays his/her opponent on an equal ground or can counter the player with the additional advantage and manages it to beat him/her or at least prevents his/her own death even though he/she is at a disadvantage.

AA’s shouldn’t be straight up advantages or disadvantages.
They should be multi-purpose tools dependent on skill and cunning.

> On a side note because the “midship maps” are often praised as great arena maps, remove all the items from such maps and you will have a big shunned zone right in the middle of said maps during the entire game.

Akademik bashed midship pretty hard over at Team Beyond. Was pretty amazing.

> There isn’t much thought, experience or skill required to use something like a bubbleshield to achieve the desired effect though. I push the button and I get my advantage instantly. Unfortunately that applies to many equipments and AAs. So placing them on the map with limited uses doesn’t make them more skillful to use in any way. They will only get less used.

This so much.
Many AA’s, Equipment, and even power weapons are simply whip it out and use it.
They have no skill gap.

I have to say that I thouroughly agree with this concept of ‘Utilities’. I have had pretty much the same idea for a while myself but have never gotten around to posting it. Also, seeing as how I hate the concept of Powerups(you do not have complete control over their use so they are less viable and to make them more viable they have to become extremely OP), I would like to see alternative versions of Overshield and Active Camo converted to Utilities as well. Before anyone jumps to conclusions on that idea, classic powerup versions will still be available as a classic game option and these will be map pickups. I will soon be creating my own thread to further explain how these would work.

I also like the idea of everyone spawning with the same AA in certain gametypes/maps. Rock N Rail for example is a fun and balanced gametype, even though it is an Action Sack gametype.

> The way I see it there’s two ways to go about tackling jetpacks on-spawn.
> 1. Make maps flat so the height advantage is nullified.
> 2. Make maps extra high so the jetpack is essentially the same as the jump button (which is pointless because everyone already spawns with a jump button).
>
> The former limits what we can do with the map design, the latter affects other areas of the game. For example, we would need larger ranged weapons because the distance between the ground and ceiling would be higher.

You only have to tackle it when there would be other AAs also available at spawn though.
In case it is the only AA at spawn, a default movement mechanic, you can design pretty amazing map layouts for it while still leaving things like the weapon sandbox intact.

(side note: not suggesting that Jetpack becomes the overall new default ability, only for 1 or 2 maps perhaps)

> And that’s why I would suggest to incorporate certain AAs as default abilities into the design of certain maps or gametypes.
>
> The certain AAs that I am primarily aiming for are the once that focus around movement (Jetpack, Thruster Pack, Evade) because other than the “class-abilities” (i.e: Hardlight shield or regenfield) which give you a specific and direct advantage when pushing the button, the movement abilities can get used more freely and creatively what means it depends on the player’s input if and in which way and area the ability gives you an advantage.
> For example you can use an ability like Jetpack in offensive ways as well as defensive ways plus you can even use it outside of combat and that all can only get achieved by the players thought, experience and skill and not by simply pushing the button.
>
> Then to solve the “advantage issue” at spawn, that Reach’s and H4’s AAs have created, that some AAs are more useful in certain scenarios than others or are giving you generally a bigger advantage than others,
> you could give every player the same default AA, plus to take it a step further to remove the inherent advantage aspect of AA entirely, you could incorporate them into the design of maps and turn them to inherent gameplay elements.
> I.e:
> On a map that incorporated a default ability like Jetpack (or alternatively TP) into its design, Jetpack would now function as a inherent movement mechanic on that map that is required to get from A to B, to traverse the map, plus it will only give you a significant advantage over your opponents when you mastered it, similar to strafing and shooting.
>
> In the end you could have unique maps that play without AAs and you could have unique maps that play with AAs.
> Personally, I think such an approach on AAs would offer more potential to improve “arena Halo” in several fields, especially in regards to map design and therefore gameplay, than simply placing more (different) advantages on the maps.

I think this be a great option to swift, if at each round everyone had the same AA, and it was up to player skill to better your opponents, would be great as well. And having maps designed for the said AA for that map is great.

Thanks for your feedback SWIFT, it is always great.

> I don’t want my jetpack to be one use though Thomsy, and I want to spawn with it. When I use jetpack I’m constantly lurking in the lower reaches of the map and flying up to the higher areas when I feel I should. I probably use it 15-20 times each life, one time use would be no good.

Sammy, this is a perfect example why the JP hurts gameplay.

I use the JP as you do, only because it makes navigating maps so easy, but this really hurts gameplay. Holding control points on the map, is near impossible, when people can JP to it from any direction.

I can agree with most of what the OP said also along with what swift said, made some great points.

Maybe it is possible to have both my suggestion and Swifts suggestion.

You have an AA that everyone has and a map designed for that AA.

To use, tap X or RB. However you also have Utilities (AA/Equipment) throughout the map, that can be picked up, to use these HOLD X or RB to activate Utility. This is secondary to the AA you have at SPAWN.

> You only have to tackle it when there would be other AAs also available at spawn though.
> In case it is the only AA at spawn, a default movement mechanic, you can design pretty amazing map layouts for it while still leaving things like the weapon sandbox intact.
>
> (side note: not suggesting that Jetpack becomes the overall new default ability, only for 1 or 2 maps perhaps)

I just don’t see what on-spawn jetpacks bring to the game.

A jetpack is essentially an extended jump (though it’s also kind of a glide). If you wanted to require players to use an ability to reach an area you could simply make areas that can only be reached by jumping.

I suppose if you were going to implement gliding sections, but that can be accomplished with mancannons.

One thing jetpacks (or increased jump height) would do is let us add more vertical (in height, not in levels) maps. But do we want that?

Similarly sprint (or increased movement speed) lets us make more horizontal maps. But this has been seen as undesirable.

> I just don’t see what on-spawn jetpacks bring to the game.
>
> A jetpack is essentially an extended jump (though it’s also kind of a glide). If you wanted to require players to use an ability to reach an area you could simply make areas that can only be reached by jumping.
>
> I suppose if you were going to implement gliding sections, but that can be accomplished with mancannons.
>
> One thing jetpacks (or increased jump height) would do is let us add more vertical (in height, not in levels) maps. But do we want that?
>
> Similarly sprint (or increased movement speed) lets us make more horizontal maps. But this has been seen as undesirable.

Well, looking at it solely as an movement mechanic it gives the player an extra momentum and options to move in midair, to glid.
So basically free movement/strafing in midair is possible.

In regards to map design some things that are currently popping up in my mind are:
taking away stairs, areas without grounds, “canyons with caves”, implementing “floating” platforms and covers, perhaps even moving elements and of course “gliding sections”.
Generally giving maps and combat an aerial theme.

Sure some of these elements can also get implemented and achieved in one or the other way with jumps, mancannons or lifts.
But I think the possiblities with jumps are nonetheless quite restricted in comparison.
And in regards to mancannons and lifts they create an pretetermind glid while with Jetpack the player has to perform the glid him/herself. So again you gain more room for flexibility and creativity.
(Mancannons/lifts and Thrusters are a nice combination though just btw)

Besides, other than sprint you can bring the speed of Jetpack in line with the speed of base movement, what means vertical distances can be proportional to horizontal distances and horizontal distances do not have to be stretched out or shorten to accomodate one of them as well. So you can actually design maps and sandboxes with a single movement speed in mind, something that isn’t possible with Sprint.

> But I think the possiblities with jumps are nonetheless quite restricted in comparison. And in regards to mancannons and lifts they create an pretetermind glid while with Jetpack the player has to perform the glid him/herself. So again you gain more room for flexibility and creativity.

It’s easy to conclude naively that just because the potential routes are more restricted with jump than they are with Jetpack, that the whole jumping mechanic is more restricted. But it makes the assumption that more routes somehow always leads to better gameplay. That’s not the case. There is a reason why some movement is restricted. There is a reason why there are gaps on the map that are impossible to cross by jumping.

Controlling player movement is an important part of map design. Every wall too high and every gap too long has a meaning. Certain locations are made accessible through fewer routes to make them desirable for the players to control. Walls are placed so that the trip from one part of the map to another takes long enough while keeping the map compact.

These are all restrictions on movement that have in important role in creating coherent gameplay. If we didn’t care about that coherence, all maps might as well be flat planes with boxes high enough to hide the player, but low enough to jump on top of. The role of this kind of design would be the same as that of Jetpack: to allow the player take any path they desire.

The primary issue of Jetpack as a spawn ability is that it’s really difficult to design maps with it in mind that have coherent flow. Ultimately, there are very few actual ways to design such a map for Jetpack. None of them really make any sense from the perspective of playability. You could make a map that’s essentially a blown up version of a regular map so that the player couldn’t take any path with Jetpack. Alternatively you could make a map that has a lot of hallways so that there is simply no chance to diverge from the predetermined path.

In the end, it’s much better to go with some sensible jump height and distance. That way coherence can be maintained without ridiculous design choices. On a normal map, the restrictions jumping imposes on the player ultimately leads to deeper gameplay and movement. The limited amount of paths assures that there is a meaningful choice when choosing a path. The fact that not all paths are trivial means that there can be a skill difference between the paths a skilled player uses compared to a less skilled player.

> It’s easy to conclude naively that just because the potential routes are more restricted with jump than they are with Jetpack, that the whole jumping mechanic is more restricted. But it makes the assumption that more routes somehow always leads to better gameplay. That’s not the case. There is a reason why some movement is restricted. There is a reason why there are gaps on the map that are impossible to cross by jumping.

I am not aiming for more routes to traverse a map, just for a map that gets traversed in a different way with different routs and with different movement mechanics in comparison to the “regular maps”.
Sorry when my words and thoughts were a bit vague or off in that regard.

> Controlling player movement is an important part of map design.[…]
> These are all restrictions on movement that have in important role in creating coherent gameplay. If we didn’t care about that coherence, all maps might as well be flat planes with boxes high enough to hide the player, but low enough to jump on top of. The role of this kind of design would be the same as that of Jetpack: to allow the player take any path they desire.

And in no way I am disagreeing with you that player movement has to be controlled through map design or am suggesting that we should implement a movement ability that lets us ignore all the boundaries and hence the natural and intended flow of a map.
I was suggesting that an movement ability like Jetpack gets incorporated into the design of a map and hence becomes a part of its intended flow and gameplay.
So it won’t get you from A to C while ignoring B like it currently is the case because Jetpack functions as an advantage but it will just get you or rather will be required to get you from A to B.

> The primary issue of Jetpack as a spawn ability is that it’s really difficult to design maps with it in mind that have coherent flow.

I won’t say it is easy but it is fairly managable in my opinion.

Anyway, I am not saying that Halo needs such (special) maps that incorporated certain movement mechanics into their design. Afterall it is just a suggestion which I think is simply worth some thought.

> And in no way I am disagreeing with you that player movement has to be controlled through map design or am suggesting that we should implement a movement ability that lets us ignore all the boundaries and hence the natural and intended flow of a map.
> I was suggesting that an movement ability like Jetpack gets incorporated into the design of a map and hence becomes a part of its intended flow and gameplay.
> So it won’t get you from A to C while ignoring B like it currently is the case because Jetpack functions as an advantage but it will just get you or rather will be required to get you from A to B.

I have played many custom maps where the map is designed around the Jet Pack. The maps are normally consist of little floating areas where the JP must be used as the AA to access or traverse the map. They are normally a lot of fun.