How to Fix JIP, And why it's bad in Halo.

Games Other Halo
#1

EDIT: People are getting confused trying to understand this thread.
TL;DR version, JIP causes quitting when people JIP into lost game, and why. JIP into lost games messes with peoples stats. Here’s and idea to solve both problems

There is quite a bit of rage about JIP, and rage at quitters.

Why it works in other games
Now I’m accustomed to JIP because a number of games I play use it. (Transformers: Cybertron series, Gears of War, ect.)

And it works great in those games, as matchmaking tries to find not just extra players, but ones that will balance the match in terms of skill.

In games like Transformers and Gears, you are the weapon. The only advantages you or your opponents can have is raw skill and experience. In Transformers, I’ve JIP’ed in the worst games (17-29, 10-35, mind you 40 is max score) and while still being out numbered (despite JIP) I turned those games around and won.

And in Gears, a guy JIP’ed into the enemy team (who was loosing bad) and their team won the next 4 rounds strait. Because in games like these, you have to out play your opponent consistently as every spawn the playing field is still level. Because those games don’t have game changing pickups.

Why it’s Bad in Halo
But why does this not work so well in Halo? It’s because of the very nature how Halo plays as a game. In Halo, there are power weapons, vehicles, and map control. All things that have been taken already before anyone JIPs.

If you JIP into a loosing match in Halo, you have to dodge a sniper bullet before you even know what map you’re in, only to be scatter blasted in the back as your reward for quick reflexes. You have been just loaded into a barrel, you’re the fish. Now with enough skill, you can splash and flop out of the barrel,making someone slip on the water, take their gun, then knock over the barrel to let out the rest of the fish. But how many players are skilled enough to do that? Not many, so they quit.

How to Fix it
Halo needs to stay halo, but the root cause of JIP quitting is players know they can’t turn the game around like they can in other titles, and don’t want that unfair loss to be on record.

So how about this, Don’t count loses from JIP games. You still maintain your KD and medals, XP, ect, just don’t count the loss. It makes sense, because who ever JIP’ed into a game likely only played about 3 minutes of it, so why count their short contribution against them as if they were present for the whole match?

/wall of text

#2

All I see is “I’m more important then everyone else”

Go play by yourself if you cant cater to other people. Sheesh it makes me feel old to say it, but what do they teach in schools these days?

#3

> So how about this, Don’t count loses from JIP games. You still maintain your KD and medals, XP, ect, just don’t count the loss. It makes sense, because who ever JIP’ed into a game likely only played about 3 minutes of it, so why count their short contribution against them as if they were present for the whole match?
>
> /wall of text

Would you be willing to sacrifice your win stats too?

I made a similar suggestion when the Team Throwdown playlist was announced (which as far as I know/remember has JIP disabled).

JIP is a great mechanic for getting more people into games faster and having more games complete with full teams.

People that JIP should be counted as fill-ins. Their TrueSkill, Win/Loss, K/D everything should not be affected by the outcome of the Joined Game (these games don’t count toward ‘games completed’ already). This fills lobbies, and gets the next game going quicker.

#4

> All I see is “I’m more important then everyone else”
>
> Go play by yourself if you cant cater to other people. Sheesh it makes me feel old to say it, but what do they teach in schools these days?

What? Are you wearing a padded helmet?

How can you possibly see “It isn’t fair that people can JiP into a game that is already lost, yet still counts against their record” and “JiP is flawed in Halo due to these factors”, and read it as “I am better than everyone”.

#5

I prefer x1000 joining in losing match, than playing 2v4 or 1v3 more often. I wish JIP works faster for DLCs maps (now if someone quits from Harvest or Wreckage, it usually don’t find anyone on that place), but removing it? Go play Team Throwdown and comeback when you change your mind.

I actually don’t care if those matches are counted into stats because:

  1. I join in as many losing matches as winning ones.
  2. I join in usually when match just started and catching up few points isn’t really a big deal.
#6

Started a match in throwdown today 2v4. My only teammate quit immediately. Somehow I managed 8ish kills for the match even though the opposing team had map control after my first death. From then on it was spawning into that match with a sniper rifle pointed at my head, and if I managed a lucky spawn Mr.Oversheild would be right around the corner.

Bottom line: I would have rather JIPed into that match, and helped myself out, even if it didn’t do much, than be stuck in that match a lone wolf against a most likely full party, stats counting or not.

I would rather see score and time JIP limits on matches. For example I’ve spawned into CTF when my team is already down 4. That’s rediculous. If the winning team has over 3x the score of their opponents, it’s not worth my time joining in on either side.

Edit: Something sorta like this 343… if you’re listening: If the winning team’s score is greater than double the opposing team’s and if that winning score is at least two thirds the score needed to win, or if the match has less than one eighth the time limit remaining, then continue matchmaking and do not join in progress.

#7

If you take the game seriously why aren’t you playing Team Throwdown? No nooby armor abilities, no overpowered DMR starts, no radar, no join in progress.

Team Throwdown fixes most of what’s wrong with Halo 4, yet the complainers don’t even touch it…

#8

> Started a match in throwdown today 2v4. My only teammate quit immediately. Somehow I managed 8ish kills for the match even though the opposing team had map control after my first death. From then on it was spawning into that match with a sniper rifle pointed at my head, and if I managed a lucky spawn Mr.Oversheild would be right around the corner.
>
> Bottom line: I would have rather JIPed into that match, and helped myself out, even if it didn’t do much, than be stuck in that match a lone wolf against a most likely full party, stats counting or not.
>
> I would rather see score and time JIP limits on matches. For example I’ve spawned into CTF when my team is already down 4. That’s rediculous. If the winning team has over 3x the score of their opponents, it’s not worth my time joining in on either side.

No.

And here is why. Team Throwdown is a competitive playlist. Competitive playlists should be played with full parties. Also, this will make it the only viable playlist for people who want to get level 50 CSR. If I were to lose CSR because of a late join in a game that was already lost, I would RAAAAGGGEEEE!

#9

> No.
>
> And here is why. Team Throwdown is a competitive playlist. Competitive playlists should be played with full parties. Also, this will make it the only viable playlist for people who want to get level 50 CSR. If I were to lose CSR because of a late join in a game that was already lost, I would RAAAAGGGEEEE!

But this thread has ideas about limiting statistical effect, which would nullify that problem. My idea could work simultaneously. I never said it had to be one or the other. No need to rage now, for sure.

Yes. It should be played with full parties. Everyone should have headsets. people should not drop out. Matches should start with equal teams. There are a lot of things that should be, but this thread is about dealing with reality. It’s a problem whether it should be or not.

Edit: Also, if you are justifying something by saying it should be played with full parties, it makes no sense that under your own qualifications for the playlist you would ever be JIPed into a match, because you’d be playing with a full party, wouldn’t you?

#10

> I prefer x1000 joining in losing match, than playing 2v4 or 1v3 more often. I wish JIP works faster for DLCs maps (now if someone quits from Harvest or Wreckage, it usually don’t find anyone on that place), but removing it? Go play Team Throwdown and comeback when you change your mind.
>
> I actually don’t care if those matches are counted into stats because:
> 1) I join in as many losing matches as winning ones.
> 2) I join in usually when match just started and catching up few points isn’t really a big deal.

This.

#11

It is a pretty bad feeling to join a game that is loosing, but it’s good to help those that stayed and to try to be better than the quitters.

#12

> All I see is “I’m more important then everyone else”
>
> Go play by yourself if you cant cater to other people. Sheesh it makes me feel old to say it, but what do they teach in schools these days?

What are you reading? I said nor meant any such thing.

I’m attempting to present a solution to an issue that many people complain about (that doesn’t really affect me as much, because I rarely JIP, and when I do the odds are normally good before I show up.)

#13

> Would you be willing to sacrifice your win stats too?

I would be, but I didn’t suggest that because many players would JIP and quit just the same, knowing that they won’t receive a win anyway (sadly players always need an incentive to play to win).

#14

> If you take the game seriously why aren’t you playing Team Throwdown? No nooby armor abilities, no overpowered DMR starts, no radar, no join in progress

I don’t know how this thread is being misunderstood so much. This isn’t me complaining about JIP. It rarely affects me negatively so much. This thread seeks to provide an answer to people who are left high and dry by people who JIP then quit, and an answer to people who frequently JIP into lost matches.

I simply observed problems that people complain about, and sought a way to solve it in the interest in both parties.

My idea was inspired by this thread

Basically the that thread was about people quitting too many games because of JIP into losing matches, and the other users protested saying that they should have stayed instead of quitting every JIP game.

Regardless of who you side with, both sides are having problems that can be solved. That’s what my thread is about.

#15

sorry for all the back to back posts, but I had to directly respond directly to a number of post. Just so that every can get a clear picture about this thread.

Now that we are all on the same page, lets discuss. :slight_smile:

#16

Its funny how you say JIP causes quitting, yet the one playlist with JiP disabled is rampant with quitting more than any of the other playlists.

#17

thanks for replying, I won’t say if it cause quitting “more”, but it has been the admitted reason by many players for many quit bans. This I just feel the need to suggest a solution since so many people complain about JIP.

I said before, that JIP is fine in other games.

#18

> thanks for replying, I won’t say if it cause quitting does so more, but it has been the admitted reason by many players for many quit bans. This I just feel the need to suggest a solution since so many people complain about JIP.
>
> I said before, that JIP is fine in other games.

Maybe its just me, but I do not have a problem with it at all. The amount of games that I get thrown into that are in progress is probably less than 5% of my total games so far.

That being said, even if you get thrown into a game on a team that is getting rolled, does it really really matter? No… it does not affect your rank, it does not cost you any money (tournament)… sure you might have a loss added to your service record but really what does it matter? Who is going to judge you by your halo 4 w/l record?

If it bothers a player that much, I think the bigger problem is with the player not the system.

oh and by the way before I get called a casual for understanding that match making stats =/= lan tournament stats and not caring about my online performance, I always play to win.

#19

I’d rather have it so people couldnt quit during votes or in game. It would be nice to play team throwdown or any other playlist without someone one my team quitting.

#20

There just needs to be an option to turn JiP on or off. It’s really that simple.

Complainers underestimate the amount of people who don’t care what the score is when they enter a game. They are like mindless dogs chasing cars … they just start wrecklessly spamming DMR or AR rushing the first dude that walks by and it’s just like another game for them. This is like 50-75% of the populace. Casuals. People that are generally terrible at the game, etc.

Personally, I would have MY JiP set to off for several reasons:

  1. if I’m JiP’d into a BTB game on a map like Exile where the score is like 30-20 it means I’ve missed the initial rush for banshee/snipers/gauss/tank … which is stupid. I’ll quit.

  2. if I’m JiP’d into a 900-650 BTB game … I just quit right back out. That’s pointless. That game is over. And these types of games happen quite a bit if I’m playing early morning USA Eastern time.

  3. if I’m JiP’d into a 370-80 BTB game or some such landslide, there’s no point in participating in that either. It’s clear that MM threw some full team of SR130’s vs some randoms that have no chance.

I have a lot of quits as a result of these three rules, where as on the flip side I’ve actually jumped into quite a few 500-400 or 300-250 type BTB games and been able to turn them around by bagging a few bodies and <mark>getting LUCKY ordinance options</mark>.