How to fix Classic vs Modern for good

Games Halo Infinite
1

Picture this. Infinite releases with the most powerful Forge ever seen in Halo.

Where the community has full control over not only the maps, weapons, stats etc. but also the movement mechanics such as slide, clamber and sprint.

This way the classic competitive community can build their own symmetrical 4v4 maps and limit advanced movement in any way they please. Eventually when the best maps / game types arise, 343 could implement these into a ranked playlist and even as the Esports standard.

343’s attempts at forcing a competitive Halo scene haven’t worked well in the past and they should instead let it grow organically through the commmunity, just like it did successfully in the early to mid 2000s.

I really hope they learn from past mistakes and not take years to listen to the pros or competitive player base. Not trying to rip on 343 as they get enough hate, but the reaction time for devs to remove detrimental game elements such as radar, armor abilities, sprint, loadouts, AR starts, OP weapons, map issues etc. has been WAY too long in the past. To the point where I know a lot of the competitive players simply gave up and moved on to other games because they weren’t being listened to.

Anyone agree with me on this? Let’s get a productive discussion going and hope someone at 343 see this :slight_smile:

2

> 2533274844542951;1:
> Picture this. Infinite releases with the most powerful Forge ever seen in Halo.
>
> Where the community has full control over not only the maps, weapons, stats etc. but also the movement mechanics such as slide, clamber and sprint.
>
> This way the classic competitive community can build their own symmetrical 4v4 maps and limit advanced movement in any way they please. Eventually when the best maps / game types arise, 343 could implement these into a ranked playlist and even as the Esports standard.
>
> 343’s attempts at forcing a competitive Halo scene haven’t worked well in the past and they should instead let it grow organically through the commmunity, just like it did successfully in the early to mid 2000s.
>
> I really hope they learn from past mistakes and not take years to listen to the pros or competitive player base. Not trying to rip on 343 as they get enough hate, but the reaction time for devs to remove detrimental game elements such as radar, armor abilities, sprint, loadouts, AR starts, OP weapons, map issues etc. has been WAY too long in the past. To the point where I know a lot of the competitive players simply gave up and moved on to other games because they weren’t being listened to.
>
> Anyone agree with me on this? Let’s get a productive discussion going and hope someone at 343 see this :slight_smile:

They listen to pros for H5 and it was hot garbage. But this idea is good actually. I think this would help alot. But could they even do this?

3

> 2533274844542951;1:
> Picture this. Infinite releases with the most powerful Forge ever seen in Halo.
>
> Where the community has full control over not only the maps, weapons, stats etc. but also the movement mechanics such as slide, clamber and sprint.
>
> This way the classic competitive community can build their own symmetrical 4v4 maps and limit advanced movement in any way they please. Eventually when the best maps / game types arise, 343 could implement these into a ranked playlist and even as the Esports standard.
>
> 343’s attempts at forcing a competitive Halo scene haven’t worked well in the past and they should instead let it grow organically through the commmunity, just like it did successfully in the early to mid 2000s.
>
> I really hope they learn from past mistakes and not take years to listen to the pros or competitive player base. Not trying to rip on 343 as they get enough hate, but the reaction time for devs to remove detrimental game elements such as radar, armor abilities, sprint, loadouts, AR starts, OP weapons, map issues etc. has been WAY too long in the past. To the point where I know a lot of the competitive players simply gave up and moved on to other games because they weren’t being listened to.
>
> Anyone agree with me on this? Let’s get a productive discussion going and hope someone at 343 see this :slight_smile:

Just go play MCC for crying out loud. Don’t like advanced movement don’t play the game no need to split viewer ship on the pro scene, there’s a reason I don’t watch MCC pro scene but I watch H5’s.

Forge is a fantastic thing to get behind environmentally, not fundamentally.

4

> 2533275030042825;3:
> > 2533274844542951;1:
> > Picture this. Infinite releases with the most powerful Forge ever seen in Halo.
> >
> > Where the community has full control over not only the maps, weapons, stats etc. but also the movement mechanics such as slide, clamber and sprint.
> >
> > This way the classic competitive community can build their own symmetrical 4v4 maps and limit advanced movement in any way they please. Eventually when the best maps / game types arise, 343 could implement these into a ranked playlist and even as the Esports standard.
> >
> > 343’s attempts at forcing a competitive Halo scene haven’t worked well in the past and they should instead let it grow organically through the commmunity, just like it did successfully in the early to mid 2000s.
> >
> > I really hope they learn from past mistakes and not take years to listen to the pros or competitive player base. Not trying to rip on 343 as they get enough hate, but the reaction time for devs to remove detrimental game elements such as radar, armor abilities, sprint, loadouts, AR starts, OP weapons, map issues etc. has been WAY too long in the past. To the point where I know a lot of the competitive players simply gave up and moved on to other games because they weren’t being listened to.
> >
> > Anyone agree with me on this? Let’s get a productive discussion going and hope someone at 343 see this :slight_smile:
>
> Just go play MCC for crying out loud. Don’t like advanced movement don’t play the game no need to split viewer ship on the pro scene, there’s a reason I don’t watch MCC pro scene but I watch H5’s.
>
> Forge is a fantastic thing to get behind environmentally, not fundamentally.

Why don’t you go play H5 for crying out loud then? We are part of the Halo community just as much as you and should have our voice heard just as much.

Notice how I’m not complaining about sprint being in Infinite fundamentally, but rather suggesting a feature to make the other half of the player base happy?

If anything this just means a larger and more active player base on Infinite as we won’t have to stick to MCC and play games that are over 10 years old.

It’s not all about you bro. Sure the main game will still be the same cat and mouse chase scenario, where everyone sprints after each other adderalled out of their minds without a hint of strategy :slight_smile:

5

> 2533274793248262;2:
> > 2533274844542951;1:
> > Picture this. Infinite releases with the most powerful Forge ever seen in Halo.
> >
> > Where the community has full control over not only the maps, weapons, stats etc. but also the movement mechanics such as slide, clamber and sprint.
> >
> > This way the classic competitive community can build their own symmetrical 4v4 maps and limit advanced movement in any way they please. Eventually when the best maps / game types arise, 343 could implement these into a ranked playlist and even as the Esports standard.
> >
> > 343’s attempts at forcing a competitive Halo scene haven’t worked well in the past and they should instead let it grow organically through the commmunity, just like it did successfully in the early to mid 2000s.
> >
> > I really hope they learn from past mistakes and not take years to listen to the pros or competitive player base. Not trying to rip on 343 as they get enough hate, but the reaction time for devs to remove detrimental game elements such as radar, armor abilities, sprint, loadouts, AR starts, OP weapons, map issues etc. has been WAY too long in the past. To the point where I know a lot of the competitive players simply gave up and moved on to other games because they weren’t being listened to.
> >
> > Anyone agree with me on this? Let’s get a productive discussion going and hope someone at 343 see this :slight_smile:
>
> They listen to pros for H5 and it was hot garbage. But this idea is good actually. I think this would help alot. But could they even do this?

I don’t see why they couldn’t. They built Slipspace from the ground up and some of the features in H5 are pretty advanced already, I’m sure it could be possible.

I’m not sure which pros they were listening to during H5s development, all I know is that there were an insane amount of issues for the first few years of pro play, which a lot of the pros competing were quite vocal about (see numerous videos on YouTube of them addressing these issues).

6

> 2533274844542951;4:
> > 2533275030042825;3:
> > > 2533274844542951;1:
> > > Picture this. Infinite releases with the most powerful Forge ever seen in Halo.
> > >
> > > Where the community has full control over not only the maps, weapons, stats etc. but also the movement mechanics such as slide, clamber and sprint.
> > >
> > > This way the classic competitive community can build their own symmetrical 4v4 maps and limit advanced movement in any way they please. Eventually when the best maps / game types arise, 343 could implement these into a ranked playlist and even as the Esports standard.
> > >
> > > 343’s attempts at forcing a competitive Halo scene haven’t worked well in the past and they should instead let it grow organically through the commmunity, just like it did successfully in the early to mid 2000s.
> > >
> > > I really hope they learn from past mistakes and not take years to listen to the pros or competitive player base. Not trying to rip on 343 as they get enough hate, but the reaction time for devs to remove detrimental game elements such as radar, armor abilities, sprint, loadouts, AR starts, OP weapons, map issues etc. has been WAY too long in the past. To the point where I know a lot of the competitive players simply gave up and moved on to other games because they weren’t being listened to.
> > >
> > > Anyone agree with me on this? Let’s get a productive discussion going and hope someone at 343 see this :slight_smile:
> >
> > Just go play MCC for crying out loud. Don’t like advanced movement don’t play the game no need to split viewer ship on the pro scene, there’s a reason I don’t watch MCC pro scene but I watch H5’s.
> >
> > Forge is a fantastic thing to get behind environmentally, not fundamentally.
>
> Why don’t you go play H5 for crying out loud then? We are part of the Halo community just as much as you and should have our voice heard just as much.
>
> Notice how I’m not complaining about sprint being in Infinite fundamentally, but rather suggesting a feature to make the other half of the player base happy?
>
> If anything this just means a larger and more active player base on Infinite as we won’t have to stick to MCC and play games that are over 10 years old.
>
> It’s not all about you bro. Sure the main game will still be the same cat and mouse chase scenario, where everyone sprints after each other adderalled out of their minds without a hint of strategy :slight_smile:

I do play Halo 5 problem solved.
yeah biggest player base on Halo-i that is fragmented, not a great user experience. Every needs to band together and support the fundamental decisions 343 makes or simply return to MCC, its why its there. Environments stuff and goofy forge stuff is fun and I look forward to what people can make, raw multiplayer and pro scene needs to be a universal vision, in this I support 343i fundamental halo vision.

7

> 2533275030042825;6:
> > 2533274844542951;4:
> > > 2533275030042825;3:
> > > > 2533274844542951;1:
> > > > Picture this. Infinite releases with the most powerful Forge ever seen in Halo.
> > > >
> > > > Where the community has full control over not only the maps, weapons, stats etc. but also the movement mechanics such as slide, clamber and sprint.
> > > >
> > > > This way the classic competitive community can build their own symmetrical 4v4 maps and limit advanced movement in any way they please. Eventually when the best maps / game types arise, 343 could implement these into a ranked playlist and even as the Esports standard.
> > > >
> > > > 343’s attempts at forcing a competitive Halo scene haven’t worked well in the past and they should instead let it grow organically through the commmunity, just like it did successfully in the early to mid 2000s.
> > > >
> > > > I really hope they learn from past mistakes and not take years to listen to the pros or competitive player base. Not trying to rip on 343 as they get enough hate, but the reaction time for devs to remove detrimental game elements such as radar, armor abilities, sprint, loadouts, AR starts, OP weapons, map issues etc. has been WAY too long in the past. To the point where I know a lot of the competitive players simply gave up and moved on to other games because they weren’t being listened to.
> > > >
> > > > Anyone agree with me on this? Let’s get a productive discussion going and hope someone at 343 see this :slight_smile:
> > >
> > > Just go play MCC for crying out loud. Don’t like advanced movement don’t play the game no need to split viewer ship on the pro scene, there’s a reason I don’t watch MCC pro scene but I watch H5’s.
> > >
> > > Forge is a fantastic thing to get behind environmentally, not fundamentally.
> >
> > Why don’t you go play H5 for crying out loud then? We are part of the Halo community just as much as you and should have our voice heard just as much.
> >
> > Notice how I’m not complaining about sprint being in Infinite fundamentally, but rather suggesting a feature to make the other half of the player base happy?
> >
> > If anything this just means a larger and more active player base on Infinite as we won’t have to stick to MCC and play games that are over 10 years old.
> >
> > It’s not all about you bro. Sure the main game will still be the same cat and mouse chase scenario, where everyone sprints after each other adderalled out of their minds without a hint of strategy :slight_smile:
>
> I do play Halo 5 problem solved.
> yeah biggest player base on Halo-i that is fragmented, not a great user experience. Every needs to band together and support the fundamental decisions 343 makes or simply return to MCC, its why its there. Environments stuff and goofy forge stuff is fun and I look forward to what people can make, raw multiplayer and pro scene needs to be a universal vision, in this I support 343i fundamental halo vision.

I agree that it isn’t good to fragment the player base, by that has unfortunately already happened by game design choices made in the past.

I would love to put my faith sole heartedly into 343 and support their vision, but just can’t given the choices they’ve made with te franchise in the past.

Where is this H5 esports scene now? Nowhere. Don’t tell me it died out because H5 came out 5 years ago. Just look at all the current top esport games with the highest viewerships, such as CS:Go. If the game is good fundamentally it doesn’t need to change much and can sustain player base + viewership for 20+ years.

How come the recent H3 tournaments had more concurrent viewers and the VODs have more views on as well? The older games had faaaar more depth and are actually original gameplay wise, filling a void in the shooter market.

One of the reasons H5 didn’t do so well in my opinion is because it chased trends too much and didn’t offer up enough different that the advanced movement CODs and Titanfall games didn’t.

The original Halo games scratch a gameplay itch that no other game does. SItting somewhere between Quake and Counter Strike. To attract new gamers they shouldn’t try copy what’s already out there, but instead offer up something unique as opposed to Sci Fi COD or “4v4 Apex”.

I know you’re just going to tell me to stick to MCC then, but if 343 is truely committed to make Infinite a “Spiritual Reboot” and a “platform to grow Halo alongside the community for the the next 10 years” - they should at least try unite the playerbase, rather than force gameplay elements down our throats that’s were not interested in and not tell us to play MCC if we don’t like it.

8

> 2533275030042825;3:
> > 2533274844542951;1:
> > :slight_smile:
>
> Just go play MCC for crying out loud. Don’t like advanced movement don’t play the game no need to split viewer ship on the pro scene, there’s a reason I don’t watch MCC pro scene but I watch H5’s.
>
> Forge is a fantastic thing to get behind environmentally, not fundamentally.

This disregards the fact that classic fans would like something new as well. Playing the older games is great, but there is a void for wanting a new experience.

It’s like watching the same episode of a show over and over again, eventually you want to see a new episode. But if the show takes a left turn into a completely new genre or feeling than it loses what made it special for you. At that point your either forced to watch re runs, or move to a new thing to fill the gap.

Try thinking about it like this: purely hypothetically speaking, halo has alway had advanced mobility, and 343 has been the head of it since 2001. All of a sudden, Bungie takes over and slows the gameplay, adds in equipment instead of spartan abilities, and completely disregards the competitive communities desires. Wouldn’t you be more than upset if someone told you this is the future, and you should just live in the old games if you don’t like it? Wouldn’t you want the game to revert back to the way it was? You’d be forced to progress into an experience you can’t stand, or you’d have to move to a new game.

But here’s the catch, in this hypothetical no other game provides you with the experience you were searching for. You can’t seem to find a game that offers a heavy focus on E-sports because in this hypothetical, E-sports and pro’s aren’t where the money is.

TLDR : we need modern players and classic players to have empathy for each others situation. Classic players shouldn’t just be shoved into the box that is the past, they would like new things too.

9

This thread is small example of why the centuries old battle for dominance between “new” and “classic” players will never end. There’s nothing 343 can do except pick a direction (that is measured to be perhaps best or most popular) and plow right through the detractors, forcing them to adapt or leave. Pandering to fans who are in the minority is not a very appealing idea when the majority of the market demands the opposite.

They can make minor, or even major compromises that still won’t make hardliners happy.

10

> 2533274847563380;8:
> > 2533275030042825;3:
> > > 2533274844542951;1:
> > > :slight_smile:
> >
> > Just go play MCC for crying out loud. Don’t like advanced movement don’t play the game no need to split viewer ship on the pro scene, there’s a reason I don’t watch MCC pro scene but I watch H5’s.
> >
> > Forge is a fantastic thing to get behind environmentally, not fundamentally.
>
> This disregards the fact that classic fans would like something new as well. Playing the older games is great, but there is a void for wanting a new experience.
>
> It’s like watching the same episode of a show over and over again, eventually you want to see a new episode. But if the show takes a left turn into a completely new genre or feeling than it loses what made it special for you. At that point your either forced to watch re runs, or move to a new thing to fill the gap.
>
> Try thinking about it like this: purely hypocritically speaking, halo has alway had advanced mobility, and 343 has been the head of it since 2001. All of a sudden, Bungie takes over and slows the gameplay, adds in equipment instead of spartan abilities, and completely disregards the competitive communities desires. Wouldn’t you be more than upset if someone told you this is the future, and you should just live in the old games if you don’t like it? Wouldn’t you want the game to revert back to the way it was? You’d be forced to progress into an experience you can’t stand, or you’d have to move to a new game.
>
> But here’s the catch, in this hypothetical no other game provides you with the experience you were searching for. You can’t seem to find a game that offers a heavy focus on E-sports because in this hypothetical, E-sports and pro’s aren’t where the money is.
>
> TLDR : we need comp players and social players to have empathy for each others situation. Social players shouldn’t just be shoved into the box that is the past, they would like new things too.

If the roles were reversed and movement was slowed down I’d simply move to CODMW full time and recognise its no longer for me, I have personally done this with StarCraft 2 played since launch reached GM 2 times Masters 22 times and now I need to move on because things on there are no longer for me.

Speaking of CODMW they seem to of hit the nail on the head and successfully created a pro scene and a casual scene, nothing via mobility was changed weaponry was for them, they restricted how pros played but gave weapon freedom to the casuals and its working really well let alone Warzone, CODMW is simply a successful powerhouse where in Australia where I live, the internet was brought to its knees due to yesterdays update, this is what Halo needs and changing fundamental movement speed isn’t the way to go, causal players needs to focus on fun modes and ranked mode, pro scene purely competitive modes.

11

> 2533274847563380;8:
> > 2533275030042825;3:
> > > 2533274844542951;1:
> > > :slight_smile:
> >
> > Just go play MCC for crying out loud. Don’t like advanced movement don’t play the game no need to split viewer ship on the pro scene, there’s a reason I don’t watch MCC pro scene but I watch H5’s.
> >
> > Forge is a fantastic thing to get behind environmentally, not fundamentally.
>
> This disregards the fact that classic fans would like something new as well. Playing the older games is great, but there is a void for wanting a new experience.
>
> It’s like watching the same episode of a show over and over again, eventually you want to see a new episode. But if the show takes a left turn into a completely new genre or feeling than it loses what made it special for you. At that point your either forced to watch re runs, or move to a new thing to fill the gap.
>
> Try thinking about it like this: purely hypocritically speaking, halo has alway had advanced mobility, and 343 has been the head of it since 2001. All of a sudden, Bungie takes over and slows the gameplay, adds in equipment instead of spartan abilities, and completely disregards the competitive communities desires. Wouldn’t you be more than upset if someone told you this is the future, and you should just live in the old games if you don’t like it? Wouldn’t you want the game to revert back to the way it was? You’d be forced to progress into an experience you can’t stand, or you’d have to move to a new game.
>
> But here’s the catch, in this hypothetical no other game provides you with the experience you were searching for. You can’t seem to find a game that offers a heavy focus on E-sports because in this hypothetical, E-sports and pro’s aren’t where the money is.
>
> TLDR : we need modern players and classic players to have empathy for each others situation. Classic players shouldn’t just be shoved into the box that is the past, they would like new things too.

100% agree with this analogy man. Saying “just play the older games then” is not a solution.

343 has tried to evolve Halo and add all kinds of new gameplay elements, but in the process of doing so completely destroyed the foundation on which the games were built upon. I understand that with each new iteration they have to try sell some exciting new features that look good when marketing the game, but especially now with Infinite being the last Halo installment - they have to try something new, which would be to reduce features and go back to the core mechanics that made the game the most popular fps all those years ago and kickstarted the entire esports scene we have today.

343 loves chasing trends and going “back to your roots” has totally been a trend for the past 5 years, just look at the amount of reboots that have come out and performed successfully. This is the one trend I actually hope they follow through on…

12

> 2535418979567138;9:
> This thread is small example of why the centuries old battle for dominance between “new” and “classic” players will never end. There’s nothing 343 can do except pick a direction (that is measured to be perhaps best or most popular) and plow right through the detractors, forcing them to adapt or leave. Pandering to fans who are in the minority is not a very appealing idea when the majority of the market demands the opposite.
>
> They can make minor, or even major compromises that still won’t make hardliners happy.

Halo Infinite might be the best compromise they can do at this point, especially if they want the game to not only bring in new fans, but keep old ones.

But honestly, it’s not like this was impossible to foresee. 343 takes Halo in a radical new direction, botched up the classic MCC, and proceeds to keep forgoing those who built the games old community. Who wouldn’t be upset if they were a classic fan? (Not that I’m hating on them mind you, it’s just these are in my eyes mistakes that lead to this ‘war’)

13

> 2533274847563380;12:
> > 2535418979567138;9:
> > This thread is small example of why the centuries old battle for dominance between “new” and “classic” players will never end. There’s nothing 343 can do except pick a direction (that is measured to be perhaps best or most popular) and plow right through the detractors, forcing them to adapt or leave. Pandering to fans who are in the minority is not a very appealing idea when the majority of the market demands the opposite.
> >
> > They can make minor, or even major compromises that still won’t make hardliners happy.
>
> Halo Infinite might be the best compromise they can do at this point, especially if they want the game to not only bring in new fans, but keep old ones.
>
> But honestly, it’s not like this was impossible to foresee. 343 takes Halo in a radical new direction, botched up the classic MCC, and proceeds to keep forgoing those who built the games old community. Who wouldn’t be upset if they were a classic fan? (Not that I’m hating on them mind you, it’s just these are in my eyes mistakes)

I agree Infinite has some seemingly good compromises and it’s “platform” nature makes it possible for further compromises and experiences catering to both sides (even while the “platform” nature is derided by some people- again, not everyone’s going to be happy).

Nobody said it was impossible to forsee. I don’t know a lot about the Sonic but what I do know is that they have a very divided community and that is because of the variety of experiences provided in the series. Inevitably, if each direction has an audience then that’s going to cause some rifts. I think it’s universally recognized that what has been done with the MCC was a mistake, but 4 and 5 have their audiences.

Taking Halo in a radical new direction is only a negative because it clearly wasn’t as popular of an idea and therefore not as profitable- it was not a negative idea because it left Bungie’s games behind. If the 4/5 audience outweighed the classic audience, the greatest direction for 343, as a business, would be to keep going with their direction. It doesn’t matter if one side is upset so long as a larger side is buying. These of course are strictly business related statements and don’t reflect my feelings on where the franchise should go, but again, I am one customer.

14

> 2533275030042825;10:
> > 2533274847563380;8:
> > > 2533275030042825;3:
> > > > 2533274844542951;1:
> > > > :slight_smile:
> > >
> > > Just go play MCC for crying out loud. Don’t like advanced movement don’t play the game no need to split viewer ship on the pro scene, there’s a reason I don’t watch MCC pro scene but I watch H5’s.
> > >
> > > Forge is a fantastic thing to get behind environmentally, not fundamentally.
> >
> > This disregards the fact that classic fans would like something new as well. Playing the older games is great, but there is a void for wanting a new experience.
> >
> > It’s like watching the same episode of a show over and over again, eventually you want to see a new episode. But if the show takes a left turn into a completely new genre or feeling than it loses what made it special for you. At that point your either forced to watch re runs, or move to a new thing to fill the gap.
> >
> > Try thinking about it like this: purely hypocritically speaking, halo has alway had advanced mobility, and 343 has been the head of it since 2001. All of a sudden, Bungie takes over and slows the gameplay, adds in equipment instead of spartan abilities, and completely disregards the competitive communities desires. Wouldn’t you be more than upset if someone told you this is the future, and you should just live in the old games if you don’t like it? Wouldn’t you want the game to revert back to the way it was? You’d be forced to progress into an experience you can’t stand, or you’d have to move to a new game.
> >
> > But here’s the catch, in this hypothetical no other game provides you with the experience you were searching for. You can’t seem to find a game that offers a heavy focus on E-sports because in this hypothetical, E-sports and pro’s aren’t where the money is.
> >
> > TLDR : we need comp players and social players to have empathy for each others situation. Social players shouldn’t just be shoved into the box that is the past, they would like new things too.
>
> If the roles were reversed and movement was slowed down I’d simply move to CODMW full time and recognise its no longer for me, I have personally done this with StarCraft 2 played since launch reached GM 2 times Masters 22 times and now I need to move on because things on there are no longer for me.
>
> Speaking of CODMW they seem to of hit the nail on the head and successfully created a pro scene and a casual scene, nothing via mobility was changed weaponry was for them, they restricted how pros played but gave weapon freedom to the casuals and its working really well let alone Warzone, CODMW is simply a successful powerhouse where in Australia where I live, the internet was brought to its knees due to yesterdays update, this is what Halo needs and changing fundamental movement speed isn’t the way to go, causal players needs to focus on fun modes and ranked mode, pro scene purely competitive modes.

Duude, you just proved my point exactly. Modern Ware is the best example of this.

Call of Duty went all advanced movement with Infinite Warfare and Advanced Warfare, with jet packs and all. A majority of the playerbase, including the pros, did not like this change at all and the player base population was dropping fast. What game that came out around the same time does this remind you of? HALO 5!

Then COD listened to the community and went back to their roots, to what made the franchise successful and were deemed revolutionary by going back to “boots on the ground” and just look at Cal of Duty now. Back up top with large Twitch viewership numbers, a solid Esports scene and renowned by a majority of the player base as the best COD in years.

Of course, they didn’t please the entire community with the the new Modern Warfare, but there’s no arguing that that game feels more like the older COD’s than any of the other recent installments and there’s also no denying the game is a success.

This is exactly what Halo should do in my opinion and I think it could have the same effect if it does so.

15

I do think this is a neat idea. My main thought though would be to just make it so the base gameplay is fun for both sides in a general sense and easier to manipulate for custom use as you state.

Like I think some degree of advanced movement could be fun in Halo. I think the issue is that 343 has built all core gameplay around it instead of building it around the core gameplay. I don’t mean make thrust equipment (that is dumb), yet I think more thoughtful implementation and ability to make it module for other use could be a way to help it out. Honestly, something like Reach. It has some limited abilities in normal/casual modes and removes/adds stuff for competitive in a way that does break the loop. Well… at least in my eyes that is.

16

> 2535418979567138;9:
> This thread is small example of why the centuries old battle for dominance between “new” and “classic” players will never end. There’s nothing 343 can do except pick a direction (that is measured to be perhaps best or most popular) and plow right through the detractors, forcing them to adapt or leave. Pandering to fans who are in the minority is not a very appealing idea when the majority of the market demands the opposite.
>
> They can make minor, or even major compromises that still won’t make hardliners happy.

I disagree. I think there is a way to please the two sides of the community under one umbrella with Infinite.

First of all, I think a lot of people underestimate the size of the Classic community. I know an insane amount of gamers who love the original Bungie games, but moved on to other fps games during the Reach - Halo 4 era. A lot of these players would happily come back to play Halo again if the games felt like the original games they fell in love with. These gamers are currently not in any way involved in Halo and are not this “vocal minority” that you mention. They are playing Destiny, Apex, COD, Valorant etc. and lost interest in Halo entirely once the games started moving away from the original formula. Just look at the numbers man, when Halo was on top the playerbase was MASSIVE. A lot of them can be won back with a new classic-halo experience.

Secondly, the classic community really isn’t asking for much. Most of us would be satisfied with at least 1 ranked playlist that featured classic competitive settings. No radar, no sprint and Br starts. If not the 1 playlist that caters to us, at least a way that we can customize our experience through Forge with custom games. That ain’t much man…

17

> 2535418979567138;9:
> This thread is small example of why the centuries old battle for dominance between “new” and “classic” players will never end. There’s nothing 343 can do except pick a direction (that is measured to be perhaps best or most popular) and plow right through the detractors, forcing them to adapt or leave. Pandering to fans who are in the minority is not a very appealing idea when the majority of the market demands the opposite.
>
> They can make minor, or even major compromises that still won’t make hardliners happy.

i’d say most people dont even know what they want… They could play infinite and realise classic halo was right to change. Classic competitive halo made by bungie was a fluke, look at how bad reach was competitivly. halo 1-3 multiplayer was a happy accident and not a pinnacle of game design expertly crafted by bungie like people think… There is room for much improvement, 343 just havent figured it out. they took the worst apects from halo and made the sweatiest shooter in halo 5. Infinite looks a step in the right direction

18

> 2533274844542951;16:
> > 2535418979567138;9:
> >
>
> I disagree. I think there is a way to please the two sides of the community under one umbrella with Infinite.
>
> First of all, I think a lot of people underestimate the size of the Classic community. I know an insane amount of gamers who love the original Bungie games, but moved on to other fps games during the Reach - Halo 4 era. A lot of these players would happily come back to play Halo again if the games felt like the original games they fell in love with. These gamers are currently not in any way involved in Halo and are not this “vocal minority” that you mention. They are playing Destiny, Apex, COD, Valorant etc. and lost interest in Halo entirely once the games started moving away from the original formula. Just look at the numbers man, when Halo was on top the playerbase was MASSIVE. A lot of them can be won back with a new classic-halo experience.
>
> Secondly, the classic community really isn’t asking for much. Most of us would be satisfied with at least 1 ranked playlist that featured classic competitive settings. No radar, no sprint and Br starts. If not the 1 playlist that caters to us, at least a way that we can customize our experience through Forge with custom games. That ain’t much man…

I just want to say I agree with what you said 100%, but would point out that Halo 5 technically offers exactly what you are asking for with regards to custom games. They have options to play with movement speed, radar, ability use, etc. idk if you know but I just wanted to mention that even if it ends up being redundant info.

19

> 2535429756019039;15:
> I do think this is a neat idea. My main thought though would be to just make it so the base gameplay is fun for both sides in a general sense and easier to manipulate for custom use as you state.
>
> Like I think some degree of advanced movement could be fun in Halo. I think the issue is that 343 has built all core gameplay around it instead of building it around the core gameplay. I don’t mean make thrust equipment (that is dumb), yet I think more thoughtful implementation and ability to make it module for other use could be a way to help it out. Honestly, something like Reach. It has some limited abilities in normal/casual modes and removes/adds stuff for competitive in a way that does break the loop. Well… at least in my eyes that is.

Yeah man, it honestly doesn’t have to be that difficult or complex. Even if all the maps are enlarged to accommodate for sprint, this forge feature I mention would solve a lot of those issues.

20

> 2533274844542951;19:
> > 2535429756019039;15:
> > I do think this is a neat idea. My main thought though would be to just make it so the base gameplay is fun for both sides in a general sense and easier to manipulate for custom use as you state.
> >
> > Like I think some degree of advanced movement could be fun in Halo. I think the issue is that 343 has built all core gameplay around it instead of building it around the core gameplay. I don’t mean make thrust equipment (that is dumb), yet I think more thoughtful implementation and ability to make it module for other use could be a way to help it out. Honestly, something like Reach. It has some limited abilities in normal/casual modes and removes/adds stuff for competitive in a way that does break the loop. Well… at least in my eyes that is.
>
> Yeah man, it honestly doesn’t have to be that difficult or complex. Even if all the maps are enlarged to accommodate for sprint, this forge feature I mention would solve a lot of those issues.

I agree. I just personally think a closer balance should be made for the general multiplayer for a more cohesive experience between modes. I do think giving custom options for things to allow people to enjoy the modes they want is good (and should definitely be a thing you can do for Custom Games like Halo 5), yet I think simply having competitive playlists be say, classic and then social playlists are classic with a bit of abilities would be a fine balance.

I simply talking from a game design perspective since I think it would be kinda jarring for the two playlist sets to play very differently from each other. Granted you mainly talk of just one classic playlist, yet I see no reason to limit it.