I won’t name names, but we all know there are certain spartan companies out there who, for want of a better word, are toxic for the games: BTB and WZ are their playlists of choice and they seem so obsessed with stats and (dare I say it) 152/commendation/Achilles grind that all sense of fair play seems to go out of the window: spawn camping etc are their way of playing and, through admittedly very impressive teamwork, they simply dominate games where (unless and until they come up against an equally toxic set of opponents) they make the game completely unplayable for others unless your idea of fun is repeatedly dying on a team where 50%+ of your players quit as soon as they see the same names in the other team.
Having matched repeatedly with (well, against… even a couple of games with them would probably have been a nice change of pace!) such a group this evening (not for the first time) I’m really saddened by how toxic this is to what’s left of the H5 playing population - it certainly makes me just not want to play my game-modes of choice and therefore the game at all.
Within H5, playlists like WZ Warlords should have fixed it, but unfortunately didn’t because they proved too much of a challenge for people like that. Short of reducing party sizes I don’t know how such behaviour can be stopped now…
Looking to future iterations: should the Spartan Company model continue and the future games have quite so much of a grind to them (please don’t): is there a way to stop/strongly discourage such behaviour?
Having dealt with the drama of competitive Spartan Companies and some users who decided to harass me on Waypoint in the past, I’d say just block them entirely and move on, they’re just another slight bump in the road. If they decide to message you for dashboarding / quitting or something along those lines, they’re making themselves look like clowns.
Frankly speaking, toxicity will sadly continue within the gaming world as there will be those who’ll assert their alleged dominance over the rest.
Agree that it’s annoying but it looks like they at least went for the core destruction and ended the games instead of sitting back and slaying. Just sucks that you seemed to be getting matched against the same team over and over.
> 2533274793640702;3:
> Agree that it’s annoying but it looks like they at least went for the core destruction and ended the games instead of sitting back and slaying. Just sucks that you seemed to be getting matched against the same team over and over.
Fortunately they had at least a couple of non-toxic members on each team and it was those team-members who went for the cores mostly - though one game where I think only 3 of us saw it our until the end they seemed to all go for it.
> 2535429593088083;2:
> Having dealt with the drama of competitive Spartan Companies and some users who decided to harass me on Waypoint in the past, I’d say just block them entirely and move on, they’re just another slight bump in the road. If they decide to message you for dashboarding / quitting or something along those lines, they’re making themselves look like clowns.
>
> Frankly speaking, toxicity will sadly continue within the gaming world as there will be those who’ll assert their alleged dominance over the rest.
Yeah… I never quit games is the issue there… including once in ranked slayer where I ended up 1vs4 due to teammates quitting. It’s just a personal code. I blocked all those involved, but kept matching with them
It’s not a new one though… just first time I’ve seen it again in a while. With a smaller player population though it gets so much worse when it happens though.
Is it sad that I immediately had a few companies come to mind after reading the first part of your post?
If I am just getting beaten then I generally keep trying, but if the game turns into a spawn killing farmfest then I just wait to spawn as long as possible then I either hide and wait out the match or try to ruin sprees. If I get immediately paired against the same team in the next match (which happens almost every time for some reason), I just dashboard before the game starts.
It’s a sad reality that the gaming community is more toxic than it was a decade ago. Back in Halo 2, if you were getting absolutely destroyed, a lot of times the enemy team would stop killing you if they had a large lead and both teams would work together to do super jumps or other tricks to explore the outer boundaries of the map. Don’t get me wrong, there were definitely toxic players in H2, but they just didn’t seem as wide spread.
If I see any enemy sitting outside one of my bases clearly just farming marines, I give them the ground tbag greeting and just let them continue.
> 2533274794684102;5:
> Is it sad that I immediately had a few companies come to mind after reading the first part of your post?
That’s my real issue: I recognise the SC names and they’ve been pulling this -yoink- for years: maybe some of the individuals have changed, but the culture definitely hasn’t. If SC stats are so important to people we have a really easy way of fixing it: allow SCs doing this to be reported for unsporting behaviour 9where applicable) and if they’re found to have been they can be issued a warning, and eventually if it continues: disbanded.
> 2533274794684102;5:
> It’s a sad reality that the gaming community is more toxic than it was a decade ago. Back in Halo 2, if you were getting absolutely destroyed, a lot of times the enemy team would stop killing you if they had a large lead and both teams would work together to do super jumps or other tricks to explore the outer boundaries of the map. Don’t get me wrong, there were definitely toxic players in H2, but they just didn’t seem as wide spread.
Maybe so and yes there will always be an element of it: I just feel unfortunately the stats of H5 and SCs is worsening the propensity for this: so if it’s an issue of that surely it’s easy to put a stop to?
> 2533274794684102;5:
> If I am just getting beaten then I generally keep trying, but if the game turns into a spawn killing farmfest then I just wait to spawn as long as possible then I either hide and wait out the match or try to ruin sprees. If I get immediately paired against the same team in the next match (which happens almost every time for some reason), I just dashboard before the game starts.
This resonates deeply with how most of my Warzone experiences go (Especially on ARC). At least in btb I can keep playing so long as we have a full team of players, but in Warzone its so easy to start going down the slippery slope of spawn killing.
> 2533274874872263;6:
> > 2533274794684102;5:
> > Is it sad that I immediately had a few companies come to mind after reading the first part of your post?
>
> That’s my real issue: I recognise the SC names and they’ve been pulling this -yoink- for years: maybe some of the individuals have changed, but the culture definitely hasn’t. If SC stats are so important to people we have a really easy way of fixing it: allow SCs doing this to be reported for unsporting behaviour 9where applicable) and if they’re found to have been they can be issued a warning, and eventually if it continues: disbanded.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274794684102;5:
> > It’s a sad reality that the gaming community is more toxic than it was a decade ago. Back in Halo 2, if you were getting absolutely destroyed, a lot of times the enemy team would stop killing you if they had a large lead and both teams would work together to do super jumps or other tricks to explore the outer boundaries of the map. Don’t get me wrong, there were definitely toxic players in H2, but they just didn’t seem as wide spread.
>
> Maybe so and yes there will always be an element of it: I just feel unfortunately the stats of H5 and SCs is worsening the propensity for this: so if it’s an issue of that surely it’s easy to put a stop to?
While I think reporting a toxic SC would be a good thing, I think it would be abused. I imagine that a competitive SC would just report other competitive SC and then they would get disbanded even if they were not toxic to begin with.
> 2533274894985914;8:
> > 2533274874872263;6:
> > > 2533274794684102;5:
> > > Is it sad that I immediately had a few companies come to mind after reading the first part of your post?
> >
> > That’s my real issue: I recognise the SC names and they’ve been pulling this -yoink- for years: maybe some of the individuals have changed, but the culture definitely hasn’t. If SC stats are so important to people we have a really easy way of fixing it: allow SCs doing this to be reported for unsporting behaviour 9where applicable) and if they’re found to have been they can be issued a warning, and eventually if it continues: disbanded.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274794684102;5:
> > > It’s a sad reality that the gaming community is more toxic than it was a decade ago. Back in Halo 2, if you were getting absolutely destroyed, a lot of times the enemy team would stop killing you if they had a large lead and both teams would work together to do super jumps or other tricks to explore the outer boundaries of the map. Don’t get me wrong, there were definitely toxic players in H2, but they just didn’t seem as wide spread.
> >
> > Maybe so and yes there will always be an element of it: I just feel unfortunately the stats of H5 and SCs is worsening the propensity for this: so if it’s an issue of that surely it’s easy to put a stop to?
>
> While I think reporting a toxic SC would be a good thing, I think it would be abused. I imagine that a competitive SC would just report other competitive SC and then they would get disbanded even if they were not toxic to begin with.
In fairness: abuse of the system would surely be pretty easy to spot
One thing that we need to keep in mind is that just because players steamroll through games and win all the time, does not mean they are toxic. Players who run with good teams are trying to have fun, too.
At this stage in the life cycle of Halo 5, I didn’t think this happened anymore. Then I recently played a Warzone Turbo match and proceeded to watch one of the notorious companies triple cap us almost immediately, and then spawn kill us the rest of the match…never bothering to go for the core.
it amazes me that any gamer wants to play like this, especially after unlocking Achilles.
As a solo player, I’ve pretty much focused on the featured social playlist. I really want that XP boost. So that does suck me into WZ Turbo occasionally, even though I’m no longer a fan of WZ. Luckily, I haven’t crossed paths with these companies too often anymore.
> 2533274887841772;10:
> One thing that we need to keep in mind is that just because players steamroll through games and win all the time, does not mean they are toxic. Players who run with good teams are trying to have fun, too.
Agreed. There is definitely a difference between a good team consistently winning and a team that is farming. I have no problem losing if the enemy is legitimately playing better.
Based on your game history, I’m not sure why you’re complaining about being farmed. I play with those guys and they hate farming and just try coring. If you’re camping in the core room with a blaze, killing them as they try to core, then yes, you might get “farmed”. I also don’t think you realize how small the population is. A 12 man can’t search warlords unless there is another one searching and they know it. Otherwise you sit in matchmaking for hours. So they play regular and try quick coring.
Would you rather play a 5 minute game and get cored by the better team, or have the 12 man clearly drag it out for 20 minutes, only to have you go -15 and lose?
> 2533274874872263;1:
> I won’t name names, but we all know there are certain spartan companies out there who, for want of a better word, are toxic for the games: BTB and WZ are their playlists of choice and they seem so obsessed with stats and (dare I say it) 152/commendation/Achilles grind that all sense of fair play seems to go out of the window: spawn camping etc are their way of playing and, through admittedly very impressive teamwork, they simply dominate games where (unless and until they come up against an equally toxic set of opponents) they make the game completely unplayable for others unless your idea of fun is repeatedly dying on a team where 50%+ of your players quit as soon as they see the same names in the other team.
>
> Having matched repeatedly with (well, against… even a couple of games with them would probably have been a nice change of pace!) such a group this evening (not for the first time) I’m really saddened by how toxic this is to what’s left of the H5 playing population - it certainly makes me just not want to play my game-modes of choice and therefore the game at all.
>
> Within H5, playlists like WZ Warlords should have fixed it, but unfortunately didn’t because they proved too much of a challenge for people like that. Short of reducing party sizes I don’t know how such behaviour can be stopped now…
>
> Looking to future iterations: should the Spartan Company model continue and the future games have quite so much of a grind to them (please don’t): is there a way to stop/strongly discourage such behaviour?
A Spartan company that plays well as a team, and knows the spawns isn’t toxic. Complaining about them beating you is. Simply find a team of people who you play well with, or don’t play warzone.
> 2535453278998196;14:
> > 2533274874872263;1:
> >
>
> 1000 - 33 is not a farming game…
>
> Enemy team all had less than 5 kills, and you only died once. I’m really not sure you know what getting farmed is like haha
Oh I know what getting farmed is like: yes in that game it wasn’t a case of farming and maybe the specific people I played last night aren’t regularly farmers (seemed like they were and the randoms on their team weren’t though to be honest) but when you do encounter a farming team in a playlist it’s precisely the same fundamental problem: toxicity of playing reducing fun for everyone which long term reduces population for all.
Knowing the spawns is toxic… because coming under fire immediately on spawning is not a fair fight - especially at low req levels!
It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: after a couple of games people start qutting to avoid such a toxic playstyle so if you get repeatedly matched against such a team then unless you quit you’ve got no escape.
And yes: I have had fantastic teams to play WZ with: the problem there is timing especially this late in the game’s life. If you can sit and play H5 reliably every day it’s easy to get such a team together: if you get limited chances to play and don’t have reliably clear times when you can commit to gaming regularly and just want to jump on when you do find yourself with some free time you cannot guarantee such a team will be available: no matter how good a club or group you have who play. Suggesting that WZ is a game mode you should only be able to play in a team puts off a huge section of the community: people who want to play how you suggest were given Warlords: they should use it! If your main complaint about warlords is low population: sorry to say the actions of the groups you’re defending is just lowering the populations elsewhere. Maybe you should get more likeminded people like you together into 12 man teams and match in Warlords?
> 2533274874872263;16:
> > 2535453278998196;14:
> > > 2533274874872263;1:
> > >
> >
> > 1000 - 33 is not a farming game…
> >
> > Enemy team all had less than 5 kills, and you only died once. I’m really not sure you know what getting farmed is like haha
>
> Oh I know what getting farmed is like: yes in that game it wasn’t a case of farming and maybe the specific people I played last night aren’t regularly farmers (seemed like they were and the randoms on their team weren’t though to be honest) but when you do encounter a farming team in a playlist it’s precisely the same fundamental problem: toxicity of playing reducing fun for everyone which long term reduces population for all.
>
> Knowing the spawns is toxic… because coming under fire immediately on spawning is not a fair fight - especially at low req levels!
>
> It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: after a couple of games people start qutting to avoid such a toxic playstyle so if you get repeatedly matched against such a team then unless you quit you’ve got no escape.
>
> And yes: I have had fantastic teams to play WZ with: the problem there is timing especially this late in the game’s life. If you can sit and play H5 reliably every day it’s easy to get such a team together: if you get limited chances to play and don’t have reliably clear times when you can commit to gaming regularly and just want to jump on when you do find yourself with some free time you cannot guarantee such a team will be available: no matter how good a club or group you have who play. Suggesting that WZ is a game mode you should only be able to play in a team puts off a huge section of the community: people who want to play how you suggest were given Warlords: they should use it! If your main complaint about warlords is low population: sorry to say the actions of the groups you’re defending is just lowering the populations elsewhere. Maybe you should get more likeminded people like you together into 12 man teams and match in Warlords?
No, spawn killing is not toxic, it’s just a symptom of poor game design. Also, warzone was designed for team play. So your complaint on that front is offbase. Also, who give a crap about dwindling population in this context? The company you are whining about didn’t seem to have any issues with lack of population. This entire post is just sour grapes. Either find a team, deal with getting spawn camped, or play a different game mode.
> 2533274826056477;17:
> > 2533274874872263;16:
> > > 2535453278998196;14:
> > > > 2533274874872263;1:
> > > >
> > >
> > > 1000 - 33 is not a farming game…
> > >
> > > Enemy team all had less than 5 kills, and you only died once. I’m really not sure you know what getting farmed is like haha
> >
> > Oh I know what getting farmed is like: yes in that game it wasn’t a case of farming and maybe the specific people I played last night aren’t regularly farmers (seemed like they were and the randoms on their team weren’t though to be honest) but when you do encounter a farming team in a playlist it’s precisely the same fundamental problem: toxicity of playing reducing fun for everyone which long term reduces population for all.
> >
> > Knowing the spawns is toxic… because coming under fire immediately on spawning is not a fair fight - especially at low req levels!
> >
> > It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: after a couple of games people start qutting to avoid such a toxic playstyle so if you get repeatedly matched against such a team then unless you quit you’ve got no escape.
> >
> > And yes: I have had fantastic teams to play WZ with: the problem there is timing especially this late in the game’s life. If you can sit and play H5 reliably every day it’s easy to get such a team together: if you get limited chances to play and don’t have reliably clear times when you can commit to gaming regularly and just want to jump on when you do find yourself with some free time you cannot guarantee such a team will be available: no matter how good a club or group you have who play. Suggesting that WZ is a game mode you should only be able to play in a team puts off a huge section of the community: people who want to play how you suggest were given Warlords: they should use it! If your main complaint about warlords is low population: sorry to say the actions of the groups you’re defending is just lowering the populations elsewhere. Maybe you should get more likeminded people like you together into 12 man teams and match in Warlords?
>
> No, spawn killing is not toxic, it’s just a symptom of poor game design. Also, warzone was designed for team play. So your complaint on that front is offbase. Also, who give a crap about dwindling population in this context? The company you are whining about didn’t seem to have any issues with lack of population. This entire post is just sour grapes. Either find a team, deal with getting spawn camped, or play a different game
Well thank you for your constructive suggestions (not that reasons for why some aren’t suitable haven’t been explained above but we’ll pass over that.
The low population comment was in response to the assertion that it’s too hard to find a game in Warlords: that’s why such teams don’t play there, apparently.
I am not asking about one or two specific companies here: I know others do it and similar things and are allowed to by the systems underpinning it: but systems can be changed and/or improved either in this game or future ones.
Sure you make a valid point that the way the spawn system works is partly to blame… but again there’s a grey area there between exploiting a system and fair play. Just because something is available to be taken advantage of doesn’t mean we should do so.
The matchmaking systems are good and do get regular tweaks: if nothing else then checks ensuring players don’t repeatedly match the same people wouldn’t be difficult to do? Remember the Warzone rebalance? It was meant to reduce the propensity for blowout games… well funnily enough this shows they’re still happening so I’m providing feedback to that effect.
Sour grapes is an interesting analogy because it’s referring to something one cannot obtain… but it totally isn’t something unobtainable in this case: it’s just not something I want. Even if I am playing with my normal team and even if we do find ourselves dominating a game and pushing for a core victory we’d not pull the kind of things I saw being done - and given the ultra-aggressive pushing the enemy armory before your own is even captured or the initial bosses are down… well I’d just never see myself or my team playing that way anyway.
Maybe it is a valid play strategy entirely in line with what was envisioned for Warzone? I just very much doubt it…
If it turns out that I’m wrong and Warzone was envisaged as only a team-based game designed to take under 8 minutes with one team always on the defensive then I will be happy to concede the point and apologise.
> 2533274887841772;10:
> One thing that we need to keep in mind is that just because players steamroll through games and win all the time, does not mean they are toxic. Players who run with good teams are trying to have fun, too.
You didn’t see the post-game messages.
But yes: I meet a team who just play well and win no issue, but if I can’t spawn without instantly coming under fire from multiple enemies: that’s toxic in my view.
I’ve had plenty of games recently where I’ve matched in alternating cycles with good teams both vs them and on their team: and that was fine and those games were a decent length. 7/8 games all against the same team… yeah… that’s not great. Does matchmaking need tweaking to solve that?
> 2533274887841772;10:
> One thing that we need to keep in mind is that just because players steamroll through games and win all the time, does not mean they are toxic. Players who run with good teams are trying to have fun, too.
and just because a good team wins, doesn’t mean they’re toxic