How to balance the precision weapons (BR/DMR)

Games Other Halo
1

Now in this explanation I feel I completely eliminate the need for any bloom type and or accuracy negating mechanics, while still giving the BR and DRM a niche within the sandbox. All im looking to do is create balance, all while giving incentives to choose two different guns. Which I think I do in this post.

Let me start with the weapon kill times. This is important because I believe in things being even for everyone in each battle/encounter. Thus giving people a true balance to the weapons sandbox. The kill times for the BR and the DMR should be exactly the same. This way neither gun has an advantage as to which one can get the quicker kill. What should be different is the number of shots that it takes to kill a person. I will explain why in the next paragraph.

The reason the number of shots has to be different is to give each gun individuality, and secondly to give the player a choice in whether they will choose a gun with speed and a weaker shot (DMR), or a gun with power but a slower Rate of fire(BR). It also adds a unique decision the player has to make before he chooses his gun. I will explain that decision further in the next paragraph. I personally see it like this. The BR should be a 4 shot kill, and the DMR should be a 6 shot kill.(keep in mind they both still have the same kill times)

Why I choose these numbers is simple. The BR will obviously be the more powerful shot given its only 4 shots for a kill, and this also makes it much easier to aim. Why is it easier to aim? Because in between its slower rate of fire you are able to slack on your accuracy, and still be given time to recover for the next shot. The BR would be a prime choice for new players looking to use a precision weapon because of not needing to be as accurate for as many shots. The BR would also be the better of the two in 1v1 battles because of this mechanic, but it struggles in 2v1’s or 3v1’s in comparison to the DMR because of its slower rate of fire. Now what that means is this. If 3 players with no shield turn a corner on you at the same time. They have a good chance at taking you on because of the fact that the shots fired from a BR are probably a little too slow to pick off 3 people who are gunning you down at the same time.

Now the DMR has a 6 shot kill, but all the exact opposite specs I explained the BR having (Keep in mind it still has the same kill times) The DMR being a slightly weaker shot since it takes 6 shots to kill, but having a faster rate of fire is a gun that will require alot more precision then the BR. This gun will more then likely want to be used by individuals (veterans) completely confident in their ability to aim and hit shots. Why? Mainly because they need to hit 6 of them in the exact same amount of time the Br only has to hit 4. Now where the DMR will lack is in 1v1 battles because of the need to be way more precise. The battles arnt impossible to win, but they will be harder. Yet it strives over the Br in 2v1’s and 3v1’s. Picture the same scenario I described above, but this time the player having the DMR instead of the BR when three no shield players turn the corner on him. The DMR player can quickly fire off three headshots before the opposing players are able to fire off their guns because of its speedy rate of fire. This also gives the DMR an advantage when a player is able to land a grenade on an opposing player, and only needs to land a quick headshot for a kill.

EDIT The guns should not have a difference in accuracy. They should have equal accuracy from all distances compared to each other. Neither should have an advantage at a certain distance over the other.

As for the size of each guns clip, I will keep with my theme of things being even. Each gun should be able to kill at least 3 people before needing to reload. So that would mean the BR should have 12 shots (3 round burst=36 bullets), and the DMR should have 18 individual shots (single shot=18 bullets) before needing to reload.

I think that is the way in which the guns should be balanced. I hope I explained it well enough so that I dont have to rewrite it, because I find next to no flaws in my logic, but please try and find something wrong. It will only help me in the end figure out the best way to balance these two weapons without having to add horrible mechanics that will just randomize the outcome of battles.

2

No. Keeping the same killtimes between the weapons is not a good idea. The BR requires a user to need to keep their reticle on target for the entirety of their burst, while the DMR does not require the same effort. The DMR also is more accurate for the simple fact that it is a semi automatic weapon as opposes to burst. 1 bullet will always hit more consistently than 3.

Due to the BR being less accurate at range and firing slower, each burst should do slightly more damage than the DMR. While the DMR does not have the same damage per second, the DMR’s accuracy will help it out at longer ranges where the BR will miss shots due to the slightly inaccurate nature of the burst.

Your idea just makes 2 of the exact same weapons, but with one being harder to use. There is no incentive to use a burst fire weapon when a semi automatic one does the exact same job.

3

> No. Keeping the same killtimes between the weapons is not a good idea. The BR requires a user to need to keep their reticle on target for the entirety of their burst, while the DMR does not require the same effort. The DMR also is more accurate for the simple fact that it is a semi automatic weapon as opposes to burst. 1 bullet will always hit more consistently than 3.
>
> Due to the BR being less accurate at range and firing slower, each burst should do slightly more damage than the DMR. While the DMR does not have the same damage per second, the DMR’s accuracy will help it out at longer ranges where the BR will miss shots due to the slightly inaccurate nature of the burst.
>
> Your idea just makes 2 of the exact same weapons, but with one being harder to use. There is no incentive to use a burst fire weapon when a semi automatic one does the exact same job.

I forgot to mention both weapons should be just as accurate at all distances…

There is tons of incentive. I guess you didnt read or understand it. The ability to fire off headshots on multiple targets quicker then the Br is a huge incentive. The fact that if a DMR player encounters a BR player in a 1v1 and they both land a grenade the DMR player can land a faster headshot, but the risk vs reward is that its alot harder to due so. So what is your choice? Getting the first shot off and trusting your aim (DMR), or sacrificing speed for a much easier headshot with a 3 round burst (BR).

Do I have to explain everything?

4

> > No. Keeping the same killtimes between the weapons is not a good idea. The BR requires a user to need to keep their reticle on target for the entirety of their burst, while the DMR does not require the same effort. The DMR also is more accurate for the simple fact that it is a semi automatic weapon as opposes to burst. 1 bullet will always hit more consistently than 3.
> >
> > Due to the BR being less accurate at range and firing slower, each burst should do slightly more damage than the DMR. While the DMR does not have the same damage per second, the DMR’s accuracy will help it out at longer ranges where the BR will miss shots due to the slightly inaccurate nature of the burst.
> >
> > Your idea just makes 2 of the exact same weapons, but with one being harder to use. There is no incentive to use a burst fire weapon when a semi automatic one does the exact same job.
>
> I forgot to mention both weapons should be just as accurate at all distances…

Then what’s the point of having 2 weapons that do the exact same thing, but one requires more effort? It’s just redundant to have a BR as you described.

5

> > > No. Keeping the same killtimes between the weapons is not a good idea. The BR requires a user to need to keep their reticle on target for the entirety of their burst, while the DMR does not require the same effort. The DMR also is more accurate for the simple fact that it is a semi automatic weapon as opposes to burst. 1 bullet will always hit more consistently than 3.
> > >
> > > Due to the BR being less accurate at range and firing slower, each burst should do slightly more damage than the DMR. While the DMR does not have the same damage per second, the DMR’s accuracy will help it out at longer ranges where the BR will miss shots due to the slightly inaccurate nature of the burst.
> > >
> > > Your idea just makes 2 of the exact same weapons, but with one being harder to use. There is no incentive to use a burst fire weapon when a semi automatic one does the exact same job.
> >
> > I forgot to mention both weapons should be just as accurate at all distances…
>
> Then what’s the point of having 2 weapons that do the exact same thing, but one requires more effort? It’s just redundant to have a BR as you described.

I edited the above post. They DONT do the exact same thing…

Also, your ideas on the Br being harder to aim is silly. Anyone who has played previos Halos can attest to the fact that the DMR is much harder to kill with then the Br because of its single shot firing. This isnt even debatable and I cant believe you said it.

I cant describe it any better then I did. If you dont understand the risk and reward factors created with the system I suggested, well then there is nothing I can do for you. Re-read it? I dont know what to say, its pretty dam obvious that they wont be the same gun, and each of them has a perfect. One being geared towards newer players, and the other for players with better aim.

What more do you want? Im looking to create balance, and incentives to choose each weapon. you seem like a person who just wants flashy new things to play with. Should I have added a grenade launcher on one that can bounce around corners, and a laser pointer on the other? Things like that are just stupid.

6

> I edited the above post. They DONT do the exact same thing…

They do. They are mid-range weapons. They have the same kill time, and the same accuracy. One requires you to keep your reticle on target longer than the other, and the other just takes more trigger pulls. Both weapons fill the same role.

> Also, your ideas on the Br being harder to aim is silly. Anyone who has played previos Halos can attest to the fact that the DMR is much harder to kill with then the Br because of its single shot firing. This isnt even debatable and I cant believe you said it.

It is debatable. The BR requires you to stay on target for the entirety of the burst. The DMR outputs the maximum amount of damage instantly and consistently. Another reason why the DMR would simply be better in a situation where the two have identical killtimes.

> I cant describe it any better then I did. If you dont understand the risk and reward factors created with the system I suggested, well then there is nothing I can do for you. Re-read it? I dont know what to say, its pretty dam obvious that they wont be the same gun, and each of them has a perfect. One being geared towards newer players, and the other for players with better aim.

I have read and understand your post fully, I just see flaws in it.

7

Played the game.

BR and DMR are already balanced.

/thread.

Edit: Oh and IMO, the Light Rifle is better than both of them. It’s like you guys don’t think the Carbine and LR even exist…

8

> > I edited the above post. They DONT do the exact same thing…
>
> They do. They are mid-range weapons. They have the same kill time, and the same accuracy. One requires you to keep your reticle on target longer than the other, and the other just takes more trigger pulls. Both weapons fill the same role.
>
>
>
> > Also, your ideas on the Br being harder to aim is silly. Anyone who has played previos Halos can attest to the fact that the DMR is much harder to kill with then the Br because of its single shot firing. This isnt even debatable and I cant believe you said it.
>
> It is debatable. The BR requires you to stay on target for the entirety of the burst. The DMR outputs the maximum amount of damage instantly and consistently. Another reason why the DMR would simply be better in a situation where the two have identical killtimes.
>
>
>
> > I cant describe it any better then I did. If you dont understand the risk and reward factors created with the system I suggested, well then there is nothing I can do for you. Re-read it? I dont know what to say, its pretty dam obvious that they wont be the same gun, and each of them has a perfect. One being geared towards newer players, and the other for players with better aim.
>
> I have read and understand your post fully, I just see flaws in it.

How are you not see’ing the advantages of having the BR and the advantages of having a DMR? Are you purposely being dense? The BR has an advantage in 1v1’s scenarios because its easier to aim with more powerful shots. You have to be accurate for less amount of time only needing to land 4 decent shots.
The DMR has an advantage when trying to take on multiple opponents in secnarios where they are one shot. You can quickly turn on fire off headshots on multiple targets faster then you can do with the BR because of its RoF. Yet the DMr is harder to aim with being a single shot weapon.

NO, its not debatable. Being someone who has played Halo since HCE pretty competitively, I can tell you that the pistol was harder to aim then the BR because of it being a single shot weapon, and the DMR is also harder to aim for the exact same reasons. This isnt up for debate. This is a KNOWN FACT. Denying it just makes me think youre a troll.

Youre putting zero thought into the different scenarios in which these two different guns will have advantages and disadvantages. Im not going to lay out and explain every single one because I would be writing for days. Do your own thought experiments and figure it out on your own. I dont have time to hold everyones hand who cant imagine it for themselves.

9

> Played the game.
>
> BR and DMR are already balanced.
>
> /thread.

We have video being discussed in another thread that states otherwise. Good try though.

10

While we’re at it, let’s make the Magnum have the same kill time. Why not? Everyone seems to be whining about something that is balanced, whether there be bloom or whatnot.

/sarcasm

11

> While we’re at it, let’s make the Magnum have the same kill time. Why not? Everyone seems to be whining about something that is balanced, whether there be bloom or whatnot.

No. Im debating guns that fall under the same class. Pistol is a short range weapon that would need different specs to fit into the game.

Please just keep the discussion on these class of guns.

12

The BR is balanced by being much easier to use. It has more bullet magnetism than the DMR and LR, less spread than the LR and is easier to headshot with (because three bullets) than the DMR and Carbine.

Also, for what it’s worth, you don’t have to land every shot, you can miss 2 bullets and still get a 5SK.

The BR is balanced with all the other precision weapons. If you want an easier weapon for more consistent 5SK’s, pick the BR, but if you’re confident in your aim, go with the DMR.

13

> The BR is balanced by being much easier to use. It has more bullet magnetism than the DMR and LR, less spread than the LR and is easier to headshot with (because three bullets) than the DMR and Carbine.
>
> Also, for what it’s worth, you don’t have to land every shot, you can miss 2 bullets and still get a 5SK.
>
> The BR is balanced with all the other precision weapons. If you want an easier weapon for more consistent 5SK’s, pick the BR, but if you’re confident in your aim, go with the DMR.

We have a whole other topic discussing already, with video footage of how the BR looks under powered compared to the DMR.

But the point of this thread is to balance the weapons without the need for random game mechanics.

14

Quit your belly-aching and play the game, it’s all balanced nicely.

btw, Light Rifle for the win.

15

I got to the point where you were saying someone could win a 3v1 encounter with everyone’s shields full with basically a carbine. (8sk, fastest fire rate)

The way they are now, seems fine to me. A pro with a DMR will be able to use it effectively at many ranges, same with a carbine, a light rifle and a BR. It will be easier to use said weapons at their own ranges, but I could probably still kill someone up close with the DMR, and still kill someone far away with my BR.

16

> But the point of this thread is to balance the weapons without the need for random game mechanics.

You need at least a little bit of randomness, or even controllable recoil on the BR in order to differentiate it from the DMR. Just making the weapons the same, but having one take 2 more trigger pulls is not enough to make them different.

17

they definitely need to buff the battle riffle. Making it a 4sk would skill make it kill slower than the dmr. I predict people will start using the battle riffle when the game starts out of nostalgia, but then quickly people will realize the dmr is much better. Only people will continue to use the battle riffle.

18

Just wait to play the game actually, you don’t even know if it’s balanced already.

19

is this coming from a guy who hasnt played the game?

20

> is this coming from a guy who hasnt played the game?

To quote a pair of friends who are very much skilled at Halo, have been playing since the start, and have played the most recent build of Halo 4: “The DMR is still better.”