How to balance the Banshee.

I was playing Halo 2 and I found that it was really balanced. Not because it had powerful cannons or lacked a fuel rod. No, it was that you couldn’t do banshee moves while boosting. In Halo 3, Reach, and 4 you get to do banshee moves while you boost and the result is a ridiculously overpowered bomber which makes it almost invincible especially in Reach and 4. In Halo 4 it even makes it literally invincible to Scorpion shots when there’s even a slight network problem.

Nerfing or taking away the fuel rod won’t fix the problem and weakening its armor makes it a bad vehicle. Slowing it down though makes it much more balanced and makes those irritating bombing runs with people swerving around and boosting a thing of the past.

I’ve had no issues with the Banshee in Halo 4 since it’s evasive maneuvering moves have drastically decreased in speed and really don’t make it impossible to shoot the thing.

If anything, the Banshee should be made stronger. Actually, vehicles in general should be made stronger.

The Banshee is overpowered? News to me. There’s not much cover up there in the sky.

I don’t think that Banshee is OP. It gets destroyed pretty easily with sniper or a couple of dmr and br users.

Maybe its some network issues or that I get stuck with people who get a maximum of 2 kills on my team while all the high levelers get put on one team, but that banshee is annoying sometimes.

I’ve seen people able to do the banshee move and let it phase through the ground taking no damage and while its doing the move or becomes invincible to my scorpion rounds. Is this a networking issue or something? It seems like the thing is just damn overpowered again and it makes me angry when I want to play Big Team Slayer instead of Infinity.

> I’ve had no issues with the Banshee in Halo 4 since it’s evasive maneuvering moves have drastically decreased in speed and really don’t make it impossible to shoot the thing.
>
> If anything, the Banshee should be made stronger. Actually, vehicles in general should be made stronger.

Pretty much this. In Reach almost anyone could go on a Rampage by getting into the Banshee with little effort unless they were unlucky or got lasered the moment they got in it (Or were an awful driver. I’ve had banshees literally fly into my scorpion and start fuel rodding it at point-blank range before) because of just how quickly it could do those annoying banshee tricks and how rapidly it moved when doing so. Especially the side to side one.

A Mantis tends to shred the banshee in seconds though if it’s stupid enough to get close.

I think the maneuvering speed in H4 is perfect, but it could stand to be a bit stronger - damage or durability. That, or just remove Plasma Pistols from loadouts. That’d solver more than half of the vehicle problems right there!

Revert it to the Halo 3 version. Done. It could be countered by a Scorpion, Gauss Hog, a skilled Warthog team, or even a Chopper. As for anti-air weaponry and equipment, the Banshee could be dispatched with a Spartan laser, Missile pod, Plasma pistol, a very good shot with a Rocket Launcher, plasma grenades, power drain, or even a well-placed trip mine.

The unlimited boost and strong armour were balanced by its slow ordinary speed, relatively poor manoeuvring capabilities, fairly weak plasma cannons, and the slow rate of fire of the fuel rod cannons. Finally, I think the vehicle looked much nicer in Halo 3. It was also very shiny and so, easy to spot. :stuck_out_tongue:

> Revert it to the Halo 3 version. Done. It could be countered by a Scorpion, Gauss Hog, a skilled Warthog team, or even a Chopper. As for anti-air weaponry and equipment, the Banshee could be dispatched with a Spartan laser, Missile pod, Plasma pistol, a very good shot with a Rocket Launcher, plasma grenades, power drain, or even a well-placed trip mine.
>
> The unlimited boost and strong armour were balanced by its slow ordinary speed, relatively poor manoeuvring capabilities, fairly weak plasma cannons, and the slow rate of fire of the fuel rod cannons. Finally, I think the vehicle looked much nicer in Halo 3. It was also very shiny and so, easy to spot. :stuck_out_tongue:

Didn’t the Banshee in halo 3 not have a Fuel Rod Cannon in multiplayer? I’m pretty sure it didn’t or am I thinking of a different halo game. Also the Halo 3 banshee was the worst banshee IMO. It couldn’t stand against the original hornet and could barley fight the nerfed one.

Like you said everything could destroyed it since it’s flight patterns were to obvious while something like the hornet could fly in 3D which IMO should be how the banshee works. I was just playing Halo 3 early today with some friends on Sandbox and I got in a Banshee to try and stop their Warthog rage and was gone within seconds from a single guass hog. The only vehicles i think the Banshee was effective against was Covenant vehicles but he Chopper.

> I was playing Halo 2 and I found that it was really balanced. Not because it had powerful cannons or lacked a fuel rod. No, it was that you couldn’t do banshee moves while boosting. In Halo 3, Reach, and 4 you get to do banshee moves while you boost and the result is a ridiculously overpowered bomber which makes it almost invincible especially in Reach and 4. In Halo 4 it even makes it literally invincible to Scorpion shots when there’s even a slight network problem.
>
> Nerfing or taking away the fuel rod won’t fix the problem and weakening its armor makes it a bad vehicle. Slowing it down though makes it much more balanced and makes those irritating bombing runs with people swerving around and boosting a thing of the past.

Specifically speaking.

The Reach Banshee was overpowered because evasion moves could be spammed and broke and prevent all locks as well as made it nigh impossible for players to even ping it for chip damage. Then you have a rather quick reloading and large radiused Fuel Rod Cannon and one player in particular making it his vehicle of choice and even black screening specifically to get it to respawn.

COUGH Rhymes with COUGH Gamesavers. COUGH

The H3 and H4 'shees? I don’t get the same sense of overpoweredness from them.

The H3 Banshee was overpowered due to a side effect of the regenerating vehicle health. The H3 'shee was overpowered because it could go from nearly dead to near full health in a couple of seconds even though it still looked like a flaming jagged lump of metal. This of course applied to all vehicles though. Ignoring this obvious outlier and the 'shee isn’t overpowered, or at least it wasn’t given my memory.

Remove that outlier and the vehicle isn’t a problem.

It was suggested before in the past to have evasion moves eat the boost bar. This puts a reasonable cap on player power, forcing players to flee or evade and fight, but not both. Other more reasonalbe suggestions were to nerf the FRC, either through RoF, radius of the explosion, vehicle lock on feature. Either all of the above or some combination thereof.

I’ve floated the idea before of having two different 'shees. One a nimble and agile, but weak, jet fighter. The other being a slow but tough, ground support vehicle. Basically, one be a F-18 Hornet, the other be the A-10 Warthog.

The easiest fix is that when you flip it uses 1/3 or 1/2 of your Boost.

This would stop people spamming the flip especialy in REACH, where the get a ton of kills, constantly flip to avoid rocket lock, and once they begin to take damage they boost to flee.

Now if flip took 1/3 or 1/2 of your boost, if the user had fliped two times, they would either have little boost left or none, allowing you to be able to take it out.

The H3 and H4 banshee, have been the most balanced IMO. REACH Banshee is so OP it is not funny, but if only Flipping drained Boost, it would had been much more balanced.

Like Mathew above said, that having two versions a strong slow and a fast agile Banshee could be pretty cool also.

> I’ve had no issues with the Banshee in Halo 4 since it’s evasive maneuvering moves have drastically decreased in speed and really don’t make it impossible to shoot the thing.
>
> If anything, the Banshee should be made stronger. Actually, vehicles in general should be made stronger.

This.

In addition, the Banshee in multiplayer is one thing but I think it is about time that the Banshee becomes an actual serious threat in Campaign.

In my opinion it is almost laughable how the Banshees in Campaign often ask to get shot down or sky-jacked, because most of the time they are just hovering around in the air.

I would wish that the Banshee becomes significantly fast, swift, agile and makes serious use of its weaponry, that it becomes an actual serious threat in Campaign.

> > I’ve had no issues with the Banshee in Halo 4 since it’s evasive maneuvering moves have drastically decreased in speed and really don’t make it impossible to shoot the thing.
> >
> > If anything, the Banshee should be made stronger. Actually, vehicles in general should be made stronger.
>
> This.
>
>
> In addition, the Banshee in multiplayer is one thing but I think it is about time that the Banshee becomes an actual serious threat in Campaign.
>
> In my opinion it is almost laughable how the Banshees in Campaign often ask to get shot down or sky-jacked, because most of the time they are just hovering around in the air.
>
> I would wish that the Banshee becomes significantly fast, swift, agile and makes serious use of its weaponry, that it becomes an actual serious threat in Campaign.

Agreed

Halo 3 Vehicles were the best, they were strong and useful. I agree that Vehicles since REACH have been become way too easy to destroy, and with H4 Plasma Pistol & Plasma Grenade loadouts option, Vehicles don’t have a chance.

Vehicles should be a threat, and a priority to take out, in H4, they are not, and only the Banshee in REACH is impossible to kill because of how OP it is.

i think the reach banshee was fine, slight tweaks such as being slightly weaker or less drastic flips and that would be it

fluid motion, glass cannon, high risk high reward

there were three key issues in reach btb that led to the banshee being ridiculous

  1. lack of counters, the warthog turret was awful, no chopper or missile pod or power drain. all there was was a sniper, laser and team shot, and two of things could be taken off a team permanently.

  2. when the other team took control the second problem reared its head, all spawns were in a basin, with the other team shooting down on the other team with next to no cover, the only exceptions were wayont, lam lam, trident and boardwalk - all non banshee maps. there was no cover, no spawns which gave them a chance, or forced the other team to concentrate on holding their setup through spawn variation.

  3. there was not even a slight skill matchup, allowing teams of 8 pubstompers to match medianshrimp36 and his 3 guests + obscureparrot42 and his 3 guests quite consistently

As pretty much everyone above me has said, the banshee is not overpowered. It needs to be a bit more durable if anything.

The Banshee was perfect in Halo 3, if you ask me. It had both of its weapons that did a good amount of damange, had decent survivability, but wasn’t a tank either. I think the most important aspect regarding its survivability that was messed up in Reach and Halo 4 is the fact that it could not be killed by Sniper Rifles. You really had to use anti-vehicle weapons to take it out, as it should be. The Banshee was balanced by the fact that you couldn’t look down more than 45 degres, meaning that it had to be used for strafing runs rather than area control. If you missed a guy with your Fuel Rod Cannon, you had to fly out a bit, turn around, then take another go at it. In Reach and Halo 4, you can just turn on the spot, look down, and shoot at him right away again. Its flips were sort of slow, meaning that you couldn’t dodge every single shot fired at you. You could evade targeted missiles and whatnot, but regular anti-vehicle weapons could still get you.

You had to be smart with the Banshee in order to use it well, basically. It was balanced, fun, and a great asset.

In Halo 4, the Banshee was a mess. It was fast, it was overly powerful, and while it had low health, it still killed a ton of stuff before it died. It removed every weakness of Halo 3’s Banshee, and then buffed all of its strengths. If the enemy team had both Banshees, your team almost automatically lost. Getting 20, 30, or even 40 kills in a Banshee without dying happened far more often than it should have. Yes, you would sometimes get games where you’d fly away in your Banshee, get 2-3 kills, then die. But compared to the former, this was a rare occurrence. Oh, did I mention homing Fuel Rod Cannon shots onto vehicles? And sure, perhaps it could be taken out by the Sniper Rifle, but that just seems like a poor attempt at balancing this overpowered death machine. As much as I enjoyed going around getting Rampages in the Reach Banshee, it was definitely overpowered and should never return.

In Halo 4, the Banshee took away all the strengths of Reach’s Banshee, but built onto it’s weaknesses. You can’t zoom around like a madman anymore and get several dozen kills in a game. But now the, if you get 5 kills with the Banshee without dying, I’d consider you to be a very lucky/skilled player. This this is a flying death trap, really. It will die by being poked, really. If you’re flying and accidentally nick a wall you lose half of your wings and you’re now on fire. It doesn’t help that everybody can spawn with a Plasma Pistol and knock you out of the sky at any moment. This thing is too fragile despite having the weapons be nicely balanced. The only map on which I’ve seen the Banshee be effective is on Daybreak, but that’s because there’s so much cover up in the air for the Banshee to run and hide behind that it can easily pop out of the battle at any time. An air vehicle should not have to rely on cover to be effective.

The Halo 2 Banshee was nice and balanced as well, but the lack of Fuel Rod Cannon in multiplayer might annoy some players. In this game the Banshee is basically a flying Ghost, which is not a bad thing at all. I enjoyed it, and would not mind it returning.

Lastly, we have the Halo 1 Banshee, seen in multiplayer on Halo PC/Custom Edition. It was fairly balanced as well in its own right, but it’s hard to compare to the other versions due to a lack of destroyable vehicles. It had both weapons like all but the Halo 2 version, though it had no boost and could not do flips. Not a contender to return in its own right.

In short, the Halo 3 Banshee was the best, the Halo Reach Banshee was overly good, the Halo 4 Banshee is a flying death trap, and the Halo 2 Banshee would be a good version to return as well.

I have always hated the gameplay mechanics of the Reach and H4 Banshees. They seem geared to be like the H:CE Banshee, slow, unable to strafe, and easy to aim at. To compensate for being easy to aim at, their evade roles are made to be overly drastic and unnatural to the point that they are nearly impossible to catch while evading. Not to mention the extra powerful Fuel Rod Guns and extra weak Plasma Cannons that throw off the balance even further.

I advocate for the return off the H2/H3 Banshee. These Banshees were naturally fast and agile, could even strafe, and were reasonably difficult to aim at. As such, their evades were not as drastic and felt less forced and more natural, allowing the Banshee to dodge slow projectiles but without making it nearly impossible to aim at. They felt like flying Ghosts, and took a bit more skill to use and dogfights were more fun as a result. Their ability to strafe also made using the Plasma cannons much more viable, and since the H3 Banshee could not point as far downward, the Fuel Rod Gun was harder to use.

Please bring back the H2/H3 Banshee gameplay mechanics, they were much more balanced, viable, and fun.

-SMARTAN 427

You mean the thing I can destroy with a sniper. The thing that don’t last more five minutes. Dude the banshee is not op. Only time I had a hard time with it is on exile. Which only lasted about two minutes before we took it out.

Halo 4 Banshee > Reach Banshee. That Reach Banshee was a terror.

I think it’s okay as-is. It’s fast, maneuverable, decently-armed but conversely lightly armored.

Other vehicles in the Halo sandbox need to see the armor buffed, but not the Banshee. I’m looking at you, warthog.

It should fulfill the ‘glass cannon’ role. Meaning, very high damage output with low health sustainability.

similar to the open cockpit tank in Halo CE - high damage output but vulnerable.

It needs a damage boost instead or a defense boost.
It gets pretty much wrecked as much as ghosts at this point unless the opposing team really doesn’t try or know how to take you down.
One time I got a 20+ killing spree and game in a banshee against the lower CSR levels. On higher levels it was nearly paperweight, being destroyed the moment someone gets a ranged power weapon, plasma pistols, or a vehicle more powerful than a ghost.
It and the ghost need some power upgrades(or defense)

At this point, I’m not even sure how you saw it that way…but to each his own opinion right?