How to Balance Dual-Wielding

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Seeing a ton of threads about dual wielding and the various reasons for why it was removed, etc. But ignoring all the arguments such as “canon” or “realism”, the main arugment that comes up is simply that its difficult to balance. I can understand the problem:

  1. Dual Wieldable weapons on their own must be underpowered, or else:

  2. Dual Wieldable weapons will be OP when combined.

The obvious solution to this is by modifying the traits and behaviour of the weapons when they are being dual-wielded. Im not talking about heavy modiciations, because that would just confuse players.

Here are some ideas that would be completely viable and easy to understand:

  • Have the reticle smaller when single-wielded, indicating less spread and more accuracy. When dueal wielding, the reticle will retain the same chape, but will just get bigger, indicating to the player that the spread/bloom is obviously higher.

  • Reduce weapon damage slightly when dual wielding as well.

  • Ammo. Lets say a single wielded SMG can hold 3 clips, which might be something like 360 bullets. When dual wielding, the max capacity for each weapons should be 180, which means you only have enough ammo for 2 clips for each weapon.

  • When trying to melee while dual-wielding, the first time “melee” is hit, it will only drop one of the weapons, and melee will need to be pressed again to perform a melee. This makes melee’ing more cumbersome for dual-wielders, which may help to balance it.

  • A secondary solution, if all else fails, would be to have certain weapons that must be dual-wielded only. They cannot be used on their own, spawn on the map in the same place, are picked up and dropped together, etc. This would make balancing easier, yet still give players the sensation of dual wielding and feeling like a bad–Yoink-.

2

Not really a fan of damage modifiers. It would feel really weird, particularly on weapons such as the magnum. Additional spread is viable, it makes sense and will effectively help balance an otherwise OP kill time.

One thing I was considering is having to physically drop grenades to duel wield.

But honestly I’m happy for small arms weapons just to be more powerful and only have one.

3

I really want dual-wielding back for Halo 5. I know 343i said they won’t bring it back, but I hope they change their mind. It’s a dang staple of the Halo franchise, imo. It needs to find its way back.

4

One solution could be that the damage of the weapons goes 50% down. So when you have one magnum, the damage is 100%. Then when you pick up another magnum the damage is still only 100% (50% each).
But the problem is then that how the combos work.

Or that it only appears that you dual wield.

This is one of the reasons I’m not a fan of dual wielding. It creates a lot of problems. It is mostly to look cool and feel badass when holding two guns. Never really cared about it :stuck_out_tongue:

5

I DEMAND SMG DUAL-WIELDING GAME MODE.

6

> One solution could be that the damage of the weapons goes 50% down. So when you have one magnum, the damage is 100%. Then when you pick up another magnum the damage is still only 100% (50% each).
> But the problem is then that how the combos work.
>
> Or that it only appears that you dual wield.
>
> This is one of the reasons I’m not a fan of dual wielding. It creates a lot of problems. It is mostly to look cool and feel badass when holding two guns. Never really cared about it :stuck_out_tongue:

Honestly cutting the damage of each gun in half would be a bit silly. It would be much too obvious. I would suggest a 10-15% weapon damage decrease per weapon. I think that dual wielding should just have more spread so that it is powerful in very close range to counter the fact that you cannot/won’t be using melee or nades.

7

Dual wielding has never done me too many favors. I usually used them in Halo 3 just to look cool later in theater mode.

8

I only enjoyed 2 combinations of dual wields:

Halo 2: Dual NEEDLERS – you feel like a total Dude when you unload them

Halo 3: Dual SPIKERS - lethal and accurate at a surprising distance

But that’s it. If you ask me, it did more harm than good to the weapons sandbox.

If I had one suggestion for balancing it going forward, it would be to decrease the accuracy. Both reticules would dance around dead center.

I wouldn’t mess with the damage or hit points.

9

Guns when duel-wielded in Halo 2 and 3 were inherently weaker than when alone, if I remember correctly.

10

> Guns when duel-wielded in Halo 2 and 3 were inherently weaker than when alone, if I remember correctly.

Not only where they inherently weaker, but they were also completely stripped of most, if not all, unique features that they had in CE.

Plasma stun?

Gone.

Headshot multiplier?

Gone.

Accuracy?

Gone. Turned into a generic bullet-hose.

11

> certain weapons that must be dual-wielded only. They cannot be used on their own, spawn on the map in the same place, are picked up and dropped together, etc. This would make balancing easier, yet still give players the sensation of dual wielding and feeling like a bad–Yoink!-.

I believe this is the only viable solution for balanced dual wield weapons.

> Not really a fan of damage modifiers. It would feel really weird,

Agreed. A weapon’s projectiles should not deal different damage values depending on if it is being dual wielded or not. That is just unintuitive and confusing for the player.

> I only enjoyed 2 combinations of dual wields:
>
> Halo 2: Dual NEEDLERS – you feel like a total Dude when you unload them
>
> Halo 3: Dual SPIKERS - lethal and accurate at a surprising distance

I believe these two combos are viable as well. Because SMGs were a spawn weapon in previous games, I don’t believe they were meant to be as niche and powerful as these two dual wield weapons.

> > they were also completely stripped of most, if not all, unique features that they had in CE.
>
> Plasma stun?

I believe the best weapons for a movement stun mechanic would be Dual Spikers. Getting hit with a heavy spike just seems like it would inhibit a impacted player’s movement.

Here is a quick overview of how I would handle dual wield weapons:

Dual Wield Weapons

-cannot pick up or drop just one weapon
-cannot mix different weapons
-weapon sets are permanently bound together
-reduced weapon switch speed*
-melee, grenade throw, and deploy equipment are disabled while both weapons are equipped*
-can holster and equip the left hand weapon using the Weapon Modifier button*
-if one weapon has a full magazine and the other has a partially spent magazine then reloading causes just the one weapon to reload, leaving the other weapon available to fire*
-if both weapon’s magazines are partially spent then reloading causes both weapons to simultaneously reload, leaving neither weapon available to fire*

  • – does not apply to Hard Light Daggers

SMGs

-hitscan
-minor base bloom
-moderate maximum bloom while firing one weapon
-major maximum bloom while firing both weapons

Needlers

-slow projectile speed
-needles track enemy infantry if fired during red reticle
-individual needles deal little damage but remain stuck in the target for a short period after impact
-once a specific amount of needles have become simultaneously lodged in a target they supercombine in a high damage explosion

Spikers

-medium projectile speed
-minor vertical recoil when firing one weapon
-moderate vertical recoil when firing both weapons
-moderate projectile drop over distance
-momentary reduction in target’s movement speed on impact
-spikes ricochet predictably off of hard surfaces once

Hardlight Daggers

-medium lunge speed
-user holds a one hit kill dagger in each hand
-user can lunge at proximate enemies with either dagger
-the Fire button lunges with the right dagger and the Melee button lunges with the left dagger
-lunging with one dagger resets the lunge cooldown period on the other dagger so, if the user alternates daggers, he can lunge directly from one enemy to the next if they are within range of each other
-enemies quickly disintegrate on impact
-daggers are mounted to the user’s backhand allowing him to throw grenades and deploy equipment while both daggers are equipped, unlike any other dual wield weapon
-instant weapon switch-to speed

Notice how, on Dual SMGs and Dual Spikers, the player is encouraged to only fire one weapon at time?

12

This is just bizarre, reducing their strength would make dual wielding pointless. The purpose is twice the power, not an aesthetic. Also, having them as a set ruins the fun of making gun combinations. The only thing that could work is the reticule one.

13

> > Guns when duel-wielded in Halo 2 and 3 were inherently weaker than when alone, if I remember correctly.
>
> Not only where they inherently weaker, but they were also completely stripped of most, if not all, unique features that they had in CE.
>
> Plasma stun?
>
> Gone.
>
> Headshot multiplier?
>
> Gone.
>
> Accuracy?
>
> Gone. Turned into a generic bullet-hose.

I’m talking about the same gun within the same game.

If it was duel-wielded, it would be weaker than if it wasn’t dual-wielded.

Example: If it took 6 magnum shots to kill, dual-wielding 2 should take 3 double shots, but it would take 4.
(these numbers are random)

14

They… already did this in Halo 3. Weapons do less damage and cannot be scoped (if applicable) when dual-wielding.