How the Endless survived

This is where I got my info from, but it seems I misinterpreted an important part of it. I thought they were only speculating on Earth being the official homeworld, instead it is found out as a fact that Humans were originally from Earth. A series of technological dark ages messed with their records by the time they met the San’shyuum and resettled on Charum Hakkor to be closer to Precursor artifacts. So I stand corrected. Sorry for the mistake lol

1 Like

No worries! Halo Canon is a twisting labyrinth at this point.


The Forerunners present Earth as the natal world for Humanity, that’s not the same as it canonically being the natal world for humanity. The Forerunners are unreliable narrators of history, elevating their beliefs over facts. The Forerunners never found ANY evidence of human habitation on Erde-Tyrene before the Forerunners themselves put the humans on that planet. It is definitively not humanity’s natal world.

You are mistaken. Charum Hakkor was the final holdout for Humanity’s military forces, where the Forerunners finally squashed them, and then tested Halo on it. It was humanity’s capital, not their natal world, the same way Maethrillian was the Forerunners’ capital, but not their natal world.

You shouldn’t try to use “Google” as an argument against people who’ve actually read the source material multiple times. It just highlights how little effort you’ve put into verifying your argument. And wikipedias are fan-compiled summaries of the lore, so they don’t hold the weight of canon that the novels the information comes from do.

Yeah, sorry but you’re hours late to the discussion. Olanmills and I, already clarified that I had misread the information from Halopedia, which is pretty accurate by the way, and also happens to be found by using Google which is why I said to Google it. If you had continued reading our last two comments, you would have figured this out.

And the same information that proved I was wrong, also says that Humanity most likely started on Erde-Tyrene. An ancient human who was the “Political and Morale Commander,” known as Yprin Yprikushma, found a strong evidence trail that led her and many other ancient humans to believe Erde-Tyrene was in fact the birthplace of Humanity.

This argument highlights why you shouldn’t argue from wikis against people who’ve read the source material. You don’t have any basis for appraising the level of accuracy in a wiki when you don’t have first-hand knowledge of the source material to compare it to.

Yprin Yprikushma concluded that humanity had a connection to Erde-Tyrene due to their biology, but the Lord of Admirals disagreed with that assessment, having personally been to several other worlds that were considerably more likely, observing the ancient ruins on them, ruins that Erde-Tyrene didn’t have.

The Halopedia uses source material from the canon of Halo. If it isn’t canon, it is labeled as such. And if it is incorrect, all you have to do is present source material or any proof at all proving what is posted is incorrect and it will be updated and changed properly.

Yprin and Forthencho didn’t agree on many things, even when they were put into the Domain and then uploaded into different bodies, they argued the first chance they got. Who was actually correct can still be debatable…

Because the truth that is widely known at the moment is there was a series of technological dark ages, that ended up scattering humanity throughout their territories and made communication difficult and a lot of old records were forgotten or lost. It’s not hard to believe that the ruins on Earth were entirely gone after many years later, or that the ruins of other planets might have had humanity present on them much more recently then say Earth did.

Could humans be from somewhere else other than Erde-Tyrene? Sure, but as of right now, we are led to believe they came from Earth and then repopulated Charum Hakkor after Earth was forgotten.

You’ve basically stated that you haven’t read the novels as you repeatedly accuse me of being wrong, and that problem should be the end of the debate right there. You need to read the novels to get the rest of the pieces of the puzzle that make it exceptionally clear that Erde-Tyrene is not humanity’s natal world.

Wikis are useful for getting a general sense of the lore, but they’re garbage at accurately portraying the nuances of lore, such as the details that are strongly alluded to but not outright stated. On these topics, the wikis fall dreadfully short of sufficiency.

The coherent narrative that encompasses all of the clues in the novels without contradictions is that humanity’s natal world is Ghibalb, and that the faction we know as “Humanity” left their natal world for a distant part of the galaxy many millions of years ago, and at some point lost the entirety of their records on where they came from. The faction of humans that stayed behind, the faction we know as “Forerunners”, accidentally destroyed Ghibalb in a stellar engineering accident, which is probably when they lost records of the Human colonies in a distant part of the galaxy. The Forerunners took genetic traits they found favorable in other species and spliced them into their own DNA, turning themselves into something different than the base-line humans they once were. That is why when the two factions eventually came into contact again, they didn’t recognize each other.

The Humans’ attempts to locate their natal world is only natural, but they’re looking in the wrong place. Some of them settled on Erde-Tyrene as a likely candidate for the biological compatibility, completely ignoring the lack of physical evidence of human habitation and development on it. Others found other worlds much more plausible options, given the extensive ancient human structures found on them. But they’re all wrong, because they don’t have the vital pieces of information we’re given throughout the novels.

1 Like

No, I’m not saying you’re wrong… I’m saying that you’re taking your personal theory from reading the novels and applying it as a fact when the answer is not as clear as you think it is.

And me reading the novels is irrelevant, why do I think this way? Because I can find every piece of information you are talking about EXCEPT for that little bit about humanity being guaranteed from Ghibalb… it just isn’t out there. Maybe you’re taking a bunch of minor details from the books to create a bigger detail, but honestly, it’s just a nice theory that may or may not have roots.

Could they be the same species? Sure. Why it matters is beyond me, the Precursors chose Humanity not the Forerunners. And now Humans aren’t even the Humans that the Precursor’s created, so who knows if they still find Humanity appropriate anymore.

You’re literally making claims about what is and isn’t in the novels without having even bothered to read them yourself. If you can’t see the absurdity of that, I really don’t know what to say.

I directly stated that the connections are alluded to and not stated outright, but the magnitude of the evidence for the sequence of events I described is substantial, making it far more plausible than the alternative.

The Precursors created a specific race to pass the Mantle of Responsibility onto, and they promised that race that their descendants would inherit the Mantle of Responsibility when they were ready… Humanity and the Forerunners both being direct descendants from those ancestors explains everything, and means the Precursors told the truth, and didn’t betray the Forerunners the way the Forerunners believe they did. This has major significance for the lore of ancient Halo universe.

And Humanity is the same Humanity the Precursors created, but the explanation for why that’s so would involve a lot more details from the novels that you’re not familiar with, and aren’t willing to read for yourself. There’s not really a reason to branch into other topics when the first one is already smashing into a brick wall.

Personally, I think it’s completely irrelevant to the story whether Forerunners or Humans are the same species, I think it was left open ended on purpose just so people could generate their own opinions on the whole ordeal. Because at the end of the day, they are now completely different species.

And the ancient humans were devolved by the Forerunners which made them re-evolve much more slowly and differently than the larger and more intelligent Ancient Humans that were created by the Precursors originally.

And then if what you’re saying is so true, why isn’t it concrete fact that Humanity came from Ghibalb… why is it not SPECIFICALLY stated in anything other than being vaguely hinted at in between the biased points of views in your precious books? Why even mention Yprin’s hypothesis on the subject if it holds absolutely no weight… and why is this even a discussion if it’s such a widely known fact? lol

And it is a lovely theory that makes sense, but it’s still just a theory.

To get this thread back on topic…
The Endless likely survived the firing of the Halos by being in temporal stasis, and given the Forerunners’ surprise and response, I expect the Endless were in stasis ever since the Forerunners rebellion against the Precursors.

1 Like

Do you think it’s possible the samples planted by the Librarian on Bastion could be the Endless? Maybe the repurposed shield world had them in a stasis of some sort?

I’m willing to move on from before, I’m honestly just curious what you think about that theory.

simple answer 343 needed something to replace the flood so they made up a new species


I fail to see how they have “replaced” the Flood given they had a role in Halo Wars 2 and continue to be mentioned in the background. We can even find a cylix for them in Infinite. Creating new threats doesn’t mean others are gone.

1 Like

I think the word replace is being taken too literal here. Of course the Flood will be back at some point, but the Flood isn’t in Infinite in any other form besides digital storage(as far as we know). So, 343 were trying to make the Endless as bad, or even worse than the Flood in Infinite and possibly the Halo franchise.

The Endless, survived the Halo Array. How they survived exactly is still the question, but a couple possible ways they survived is a stasis field protected them or maybe they don’t rely on neurons to dictate their biology like life from the Milky Way does. We don’t know yet. And there was mention of time being under their control, but the Endless could simply be immortal and not literally control time but understand it or manipulate it better than the Forerunners.

My Theory: Judging by playing infinite and the legendary ending, I think the Endless are only a threat because they control time, it makes sense because of the name, the way they look (clocks) and because of what a recent colleague told me, he says basically Atriox is Thanos and we are going to get a infinity war like scenario which makes sense if you think about it (game title)

1 Like

My idea is less so the idea they are precursors but more so an error in the Forerunner’s calculations with the firing of the array being affected by Black Holes, which is my theory for the whole power system of the Endless having a time relation, they just so happen to have been near the edge of a Black Hole similar to The Impossible Planet Doctor Who episode. They didn’t get hit by the array due to it causing their survival which would solve the issue to which the Forerunners never knew about them prior because of the fact they are close to a Black hole, which would also solve how they don’t know why Humanity got the mantle because its kind of hard to communicate with a species close to a black hole like that. They likely still knew of the Flood and decided to isolate themselves insead of helping against the Flood with the last Forerunners imprisoning the initial group of them before laying siege upon their world to capture the rest. if this was the case it would honestly make a much more interesting story than them being precursors, same reason as to why I say the Lekgolo were bioengineered by the last of the Forerunners in order for their mistakes to to be repeated by unleashing worms that would eat derilict ships along with any Forerunner tech they could get their hands on such as being in the asteroid system where the Covenant found them, it just makes a more interesting story.

Exactly my idea, I explained in my post on this thread but I basically believe they just happened to have their planet be in a lucky spot being next to a Black Hole or Neutron Star or similar stellar body so the Flood and Forerunners avoided them less they were to be sucked into the dense mass. Isolation lead them to not know what happened besides vague ideas of what the rest of the universe went through before being contacted by the last of the Forerunners and would be trapped via lure then siege of their homeworld. I think they don’t really care ultimately, just believeing the Forerunners imprisoned them unjustly and are angry because they had no reason too from their perspective, but if the Flood returns that may quickly change.

Oh wow all great ideas at this point, anything to help us understand the endless but reading the latest Halo Novel point of light BOOKS BEEN OUT SO NO SPOILERS the Precursors survived the Precursor-Forunner War and the librarian with their remains created/evolved them into new beings, if she could do this then the Endless are Precursors if not maybe cousins or de evolved precursors

1 Like