How Maps get into Matchmaking? Truth vs Myth!

Forger, curator, and community contributor Ascend Hyperion has made an excellent video explaining the process of getting maps into Matchmaking. Aspiring Forgers should definitely take at look at this in order to get a firm grasp on the type of quality content and commitment required to get a map into the Matchmaking consideration pool. I’ll be glad to answer some general questions about the process, as I myself have been a part of the curation and testing process on the community side for many years (not the 343i side and very few of the official Forgehub testing sessions), having contributed to testing many maps, gametypes, and playlists before 343i was made aware of their existence and eventually considered for Matchmaking. My primary focus has been Infection, followed by newer minigame like gametypes such as Extermination, Castle Wars, and Action Sack modes, with a heavy focus on scripting from my teachers Littlemonk5, Turbtastic, and ChewyNutCluster. This itself is not a submission thread of any sort, simply a discussion of how maps are curated for Matchmaking submission. If you would like me or some other experienced Forgers to look at your map and help you with polishing, scripting, or generally finishing it to a higher standard, feel free to drop your map in the thread and please pm me the map details as well.

The Youtube video: How Does a Forge Map Get Into Matchmaking? | The Truth vs Myth

> 2533274831077797;1:
> My primary focus has been Infection, followed by newer minigame like gametypes such as Extermination, Castle Wars, and Action Sack modes

New minigames and Action Sack in the same sentence?

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> > 2533274831077797;1:
> > My primary focus has been Infection, followed by newer minigame like gametypes such as Extermination, Castle Wars, and Action Sack modes
>
> New minigames and Action Sack in the same sentence?

Lol, yeah. They’re not new anymore, but we consider Exterm and Castle Wars to be ‘Minigames’. Castle Wars has of course been around for a really long time (H3? definitely HReach). And when the game first came out, we at Forge Factory (Turbtastic’s spartan company when he was still playing Halo) sought out Action Sack games so that he and VorkedManBack could have something ready for 343i when they chose to do an Action Sack playlist. I could have also clarified ‘new minigame playlists’ and ‘Action sack maps/gametypes’, since yes they’re all minigames, but with Exterm and CWars there are enough maps for the gametype to warrant an entire playlist versus just simply adding them to the Action Sack list.

There’s another round of Action Sack games being curated at the moment, but boy is it hard to find quality content that both fits the Matchmaking standard, and doesn’t consist of too many map/gametype combos where players are dead for a majority of the match and not playing; that seems to be the main complaint with the current Action Sack options.

Okay, cool. I’m glad you’re testing stuff for an Action Sack refresh since it needs one. Yeah, I’m sure it is hard to find decent stuff.

Curious how there’s such a process and yet trash like Prop Hunt and Skeeball make the cut while actual good maps/modes don’t.

> 2533274824050480;5:
> Curious how there’s such a process and yet trash like Prop Hunt and Skeeball make the cut while actual good maps/modes don’t.

There’s a prop hunt in action sack? Looks like I might be playing some action sack sometime

Watched this yesterday and it definitely cleared up some things. Really glad he made it since there isn’t a whole lot of information on the subject out there.

> 2533274824050480;5:
> Curious how there’s such a process and yet trash like Prop Hunt and Skeeball make the cut while actual good maps/modes don’t.

Skeeball style minigames have been around in Action Sack since HReach, so it appearing in H5 isn’t a surprise really. Prop Hunt has been a popular mode to mod into Halo for years now, and although Prop Hunt in Action Sack is a heavily neutered version of its original Custom Games counterpart (Skeeball not so much as they kept it mostly the same), it too can now be scripted without modding using H5’s mechanics thus making it actually eligible in this game for MM where previously modded minigames were not. They are both treasured Halo minigames reimagined in Halo 5, and I know at least Prop Hunt was requested by the community for MM consideration. Skeeball was likely more of a technical achievement as far as scripting is concerned, and impressed 343i enough to consider it for MM. They play much better in Customs, in my opinion, but they do indeed have a place in Action Sack as they are now.

As far as ‘good’ maps/modes go, what does any of that matter when the content cannot pass the submission process, and ends up failing due to some random issue (not necessarily at the fault of the Forger, but it could be) or actually gets through the process and then experiences random issues and has to get pulled from MM anyway. This is usually the step that causes most content to not make it all the way to MM or get pulled immediately. There are just too many factors for 343i to consider when taking community content and trying to implement said content into a playlist; they literally have to program the content in the game and we all know how messy that can get (cough MCC cough). Keep in mind they do NOT want to give us content that has a ton of issues.

Can any future commenters please stay on topic. It’s really easy for a thread like this to dissolve into opinions and semantics versus the actual topic at hand, the process of getting maps into Matchmaking.

Not only do I not feel like I have any better understanding of how maps get into matchmaking, but I thought there might also be some discussion of what makes a map good. That a forger would have to be good at self-promotion sort of stands to reason, but I still don’t have a clue about the alchemy that takes place between “forger makes good map” and “mysterious forces select map for rotation.”

I still don’t have any idea what it is that makes a map good. If I look long and hard at the maps that make it into rotation the only lesson I glean is that re-makes are a sure thing - I assume because the gameplay is a given. With original maps I constantly see projects that defy many of the unwritten rules I’ve picked up over the years, but maybe I’ve been picking up dumb ideas or play this game differently than everyone else.

I feel like he was a little disingenuous when he said anyone can get a map into matchmaking. Of course that isn’t true. What he meant was that you don’t have to be a Stonecutter or know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy. But you do have to be a social butterfly with a huge friend list, and you have to be good enough at the game to be the driving force behind the play-testing process. So no wall flowers and no scrubs. Which means that the last bastion of fun in this game, forge, is also the exclusive province of the competitive. Or is that an unjustified leap of logic?

> 2533274873843883;9:
> I feel like he was a little disingenuous when he said anyone can get a map into matchmaking. Of course that isn’t true. What he meant was that you don’t have to be a Stonecutter or know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy. But you do have to be a social butterfly with a huge friend list, and you have to be good enough at the game to be the driving force behind the play-testing process. So no wall flowers and no scrubs. Which means that the last bastion of fun in this game, forge, is also the exclusive province of the competitive. Or is that an unjustified leap of logic?

Yeah I kind of see that as an unjustified leap. I took this as that an aspiring forger can’t expect results by only posting in the map submission thread. They need to put a little more effort than that, and maybe not have a huge friends list but be involved with the forging community as a whole.

He’s right anyone can get a map into matchmaking. Anyone that is willing and able to put forth the effort.

> 2533274873843883;9:
> Not only do I not feel like I have any better understanding of how maps get into matchmaking, but I thought there might also be some discussion of what makes a map good. That a forger would have to be good at self-promotion sort of stands to reason, but I still don’t have a clue about the alchemy that takes place between “forger makes good map” and “mysterious forces select map for rotation.”
>
> I still don’t have any idea what it is that makes a map good. If I look long and hard at the maps that make it into rotation the only lesson I glean is that re-makes are a sure thing - I assume because the gameplay is a given. With original maps I constantly see projects that defy many of the unwritten rules I’ve picked up over the years, but maybe I’ve been picking up dumb ideas or play this game differently than everyone else.
>
> I feel like he was a little disingenuous when he said anyone can get a map into matchmaking. Of course that isn’t true. What he meant was that you don’t have to be a Stonecutter or know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy. But you do have to be a social butterfly with a huge friend list, and you have to be good enough at the game to be the driving force behind the play-testing process. So no wall flowers and no scrubs. Which means that the last bastion of fun in this game, forge, is also the exclusive province of the competitive. Or is that an unjustified leap of logic?

It took me ten minutes to discuss everything in that video. It would take me HOURS to discuss “what makes a map good”.

I understand where you’re coming from. There is not a clear and present benchmark for “good” when discussing Forge maps, especially those in Matchmaking. It’s a topic of debate that I’ve been flung in and out of for several years now. If I had to try to address your question in a rather brief text response, I would say this; When talking about matchmaking, we can view maps as situationally good. By that I mean, we can take that map, isolate down to what we want it to do and after rigorous testing we step back and ask, “Did it do what we wanted it to?” If we’re happy with how a map is performing under really specific guidelines, we can go one step further and then ask, “Okay, now does another map do this better?”

For example, when doing the Halo 3 Playlist we just didn’t have just those 5 maps in the playlist. We literally had every map from Halo 3. All of them. DLC Included. Then we took each one and asked, “Is it doing what we want?”, “Is another map doing it better.” Those five maps that entered matchmaking, did it better, right there, in that particular instance. And in all reality the maps had to do many things “good”. Not just one.

Like I mention in the video, at the end of the day 343 decides what happens with MM. We just do the lifting. If 343 told us tonight they wanted to refresh every social playlist in the game, we’d already have everything they need ready to go. That’s how on top of your guy’s feedback we are behind the scenes. The benefit to us forgers working on these playlists is that we’re players just like you guys. We feel the feedback from the community on ground zero. The same night the H3 Playlist launched we had patches ready for next update. Boom, like that.

This is one of the ultimate benefits of the current system. There is a wide network of people constantly listening and making changes, waiting for implementation.

Ill wrap up by addressing the final comment about how anyone can get a map in Matchmaking. I really dont think you need to be a social butterfly and if that’s what you interpreted in my message I’m glad I stumbled upon this thread. You need to be social yes, but not a butterfly. I think the comment after yours sums it up very nicely.

Anyone that is willing and able to put forth the effort.

Also shoutout to Bob for sharing the video here. You da’ man homeslice.

> 2533274860886390;11:
> > 2533274873843883;9:
> > Not only do I not feel like I have any better understanding of how maps get into matchmaking, but I thought there might also be some discussion of what makes a map good. That a forger would have to be good at self-promotion sort of stands to reason, but I still don’t have a clue about the alchemy that takes place between “forger makes good map” and “mysterious forces select map for rotation.”
> >
> > I still don’t have any idea what it is that makes a map good. If I look long and hard at the maps that make it into rotation the only lesson I glean is that re-makes are a sure thing - I assume because the gameplay is a given. With original maps I constantly see projects that defy many of the unwritten rules I’ve picked up over the years, but maybe I’ve been picking up dumb ideas or play this game differently than everyone else.
> >
> > I feel like he was a little disingenuous when he said anyone can get a map into matchmaking. Of course that isn’t true. What he meant was that you don’t have to be a Stonecutter or know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy. But you do have to be a social butterfly with a huge friend list, and you have to be good enough at the game to be the driving force behind the play-testing process. So no wall flowers and no scrubs. Which means that the last bastion of fun in this game, forge, is also the exclusive province of the competitive. Or is that an unjustified leap of logic?
>
> It took me ten minutes to discuss everything in that video. It would take me HOURS to discuss “what makes a map good”.
>
> I understand where you’re coming from. There is not a clear and present benchmark for “good” when discussing Forge maps, especially those in Matchmaking. It’s a topic of debate that I’ve been flung in and out of for several years now. If I had to try to address your question in a rather brief text response, I would say this; When talking about matchmaking, we can view maps as situationally good. By that I mean, we can take that map, isolate down to what we want it to do and after rigorous testing we step back and ask, “Did it do what we wanted it to?” If we’re happy with how a map is performing under really specific guidelines, we can go one step further and then ask, “Okay, now does another map do this better?”
>
> For example, when doing the Halo 3 Playlist we just didn’t have just those 5 maps in the playlist. We literally had every map from Halo 3. All of them. DLC Included. Then we took each one and asked, “Is it doing what we want?”, “Is another map doing it better.” Those five maps that entered matchmaking, did it better, right there, in that particular instance. And in all reality the maps had to do many things “good”. Not just one.
>
> Like I mention in the video, at the end of the day 343 decides what happens with MM. We just do the lifting. If 343 told us tonight they wanted to refresh every social playlist in the game, we’d already have everything they need ready to go. That’s how on top of your guy’s feedback we are behind the scenes. The benefit to us forgers working on these playlists is that we’re players just like you guys. We feel the feedback from the community on ground zero. The same night the H3 Playlist launched we had patches ready for next update. Boom, like that.
>
> This is one of the ultimate benefits of the current system. There is a wide network of people constantly listening and making changes, waiting for implementation.
>
> Ill wrap up by addressing the final comment about how anyone can get a map in Matchmaking. I really dont think you need to be a social butterfly and if that’s what you interpreted in my message I’m glad I stumbled upon this thread. You need to be social yes, but not a butterfly. I think the comment after yours sums it up very nicely.
>
> Anyone that is willing and able to put forth the effort.
>
> Also shoutout to Bob for sharing the video here. You da’ man homeslice.

This is a wonderful summation Ascend. Thanks to everyone contributing. Some great points were made. I hope to see newer Forgers stumble upon your video, and I hope it inspires to make more quality content that we the community both want and deserve.